VIPs' sons given special treatment in 1999
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well are they even doing that? no. don't come and talk about "what if some people still complain not enough" the issue here is, MOST people complain its not enough. so what are they going to do about it? afterall majority wins isn't it?Originally posted by Salman:And how much is that? maybe some people still complain its not enough, then what to do?
govt was elected to serve and represent the people. well hey, i've got news for u. the people have spoken. they say its not enough. get to work. u seem to think its right that the people serve the government, and not the other way around. perhaps u need some lessons in how DEMOCRACY actually works?
why don't we save all the touble and we award u sgforums's biggest idiot of the year? -
Uhuh? If they complain it is not enough, so how much is enough? Very logical question right?
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so just because there cannot be a public concensus, the govt is not obliged to try to pay what a human's worth? Well done then. Why don't u run for prime minister? im sure the PAP loves u.Originally posted by Salman:Uhuh? If they complain it is not enough, so how much is enough? Very logical question right? -
this debate is going nowhere. lol.
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Did you ask YOUR PARENTS if "111k is not enough" for your death in the SAF - whether in war or some senseless accident ?
Quote from post by Atobe:
Why should this question remain ?
It is so simple to be answered, as each value our Life differently.
Ask YOUR PARENTS how much is enough if YOU lose your LIFE as a result of some USELESS and SENSELESS ACCIDENT due to some operational co*ck-up ?
Response from Salman:
So how much do you think the govt shld compensate if 111k is not enough?Posted by Salman
You complained about shifting goal posts when none occurred; are you now shifting goal posts in talking about abortions ?
From post by Atobe:
The goal post has not been shifted, the argument remains the same - it is all about the value in the sanctity of a Human Life - a Life that is snuffed out due to some idiocy of some individual or system that was lax in following, or did not follow operating procedures.
Response from Salman:
If life is sanctity, why allow abortions?
Abortions is about terminating a foetus - whose life form is debatable at its medically abortable stage.
Death of an Adolescent or Adult HUMAN LIFE is a different subject matter.
An ACCIDENT during training is a result of human error, of human negligence due to some stupidity or laziness in the execution of Operational Procedures that has been thought out and made clear for all training.
Losing one's life and dying in DEFENSE of the Country during WAR is quite DIFFERENT from death due to some silly avoidable accident as a result of someone's negligence, or a failure in diligently exercising intelligent initiative and oversight.
Response from Salman:
Accidents are accidents, nobody wanted it. The guy who died in the accident during training is no different from the guy who died fighting in war. Both are doing their duty to serve the country.
All deaths are unnecessary whether in times of training or war.
Accidents during Training is SENSELESS and CAN BE AVOIDABLE if all who are responsible WILL BE MORE DILIGENT in PERFORMING THEIR TASKS.
Death during a fight in a War Zone, or on ACTIVE OPERATIONAL DUTY is TOTALLY DIFFERENT from death caused by NEGLIGENCE.
The soldiers who died during TRAINING while learning to perform rappelling from a hovering helicopter died a USELESS DEATH as a result of human negligence.
The four female sailors of our RSN also died a USELESS and NEEDLESS DEATH - as a result of error in Human Judgment in sea lane navigation, but their death occurred during active operational patrol.
If a SAF soldier is killed in East Timor or Iraq, his death may not be necessary if operational procedures were diligently followed. However, the death is an Honorable Death in sacrifice to a Nation's call to Duty - although not in defense of Singapore
All the deaths in these different scenarios are needless, with only the Life of the soldier in a HOT ZONE being most at risk, as the situation is not within his control. He will need to put all his training in practise to avoid being killed by either a single bullet from a sniper determined to kill him, or from a squad waiting in ambush.
The different circumstances of death may lessen the burden to come into psychological acceptance of the death that has occurred.
Unfortunately, no monetary amount can be sufficient to compensate the life that is lost.
Without any long Military History of our own, nor any experience of our Military being at war, we could draw on the experience of other countries such as UK, USA, and France.
The US Military has a comprehensive package that looks after the surviving members of a soldier killed, and it ranges from immediate cash outlay to help tide over a short period, extend existing privileges for a short period (180 days), State Benefits in terms of Tax Reliefs, Soldier's Group Life Insuance that pays out a minimum sum of US$200,000, Survivor Benefit Plan, Dependency and Indemnity Compensation Plan, Social Security Lump sum Death Payment, Medical Benefits, Commissary Privileges.
As much as a sacrifice has been made with a Son lost, the Country a.k.a the Singapore Government (regardless of political parties) should also look after the family or families who have sacrificed their sons and daughters in defense of the Country - whether in training, or on operational duty, or in times of war.
The monetary compensation amount is not - and should not be - made as a form of payment for a life lost, but to assist the Family to overcome the burden of supporting themselves for the future.
Read:
US Military - Casualty Benefits
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/l/blcasualty.htm -
... and Salman will ask again, "what if ppl say $200, 000 USD is not enough? Then how much is enough?"
This debate will never end... -
Friends,
can we come back to the disussion here, who are these VIPs back in 1999? -
... and Salman will claim you are "shifting goal posts" by "constantly changing topics"...Originally posted by claudetnt:Friends,
can we come back to the disussion here, who are these VIPs back in 1999?
Told you there is no end to this debate... -
Since you people complain, so where is the limit of your complaints?
So if $111k is not enough, how much is enough? -
what price do you deem worthy of your insignificant life?Originally posted by Salman:Since you people complain, so where is the limit of your complaints?
So if $111k is not enough, how much is enough? -
the success was due to a cohesive effort by a team of people who were one by one manipulated and discarded when they lost their worth to the very man who plotted and schemed his way into power.Originally posted by HENG@:people always say without the govt we wouldn't be where we are today, we wouldn't have the progress we have etc
but the question i would like to ask is, did the govt right from the start, aimed to improve singapore and succeeded? or did singapore actually conveniently come to affluence as a side-effect of some individual's hunger and primary goal for power and glory? -
so our success can be said to be thanks to one man's lust for power.Originally posted by vito_corleone:the success was due to a cohesive effort by a team of people who were one by one manipulated and discarded when they lost their worth to the very man who plotted and schemed his way into power. -
I asked first, don't run away from the question.Originally posted by vito_corleone:what price do you deem worthy of your insignificant life?
Answer me question and i will answer you question. -
S$1.2 million should be enough.... Since our ministers are paid millions of dollars a year. So...what is S$1.2m to its people serving National Service that died during training; and how many will die or will deperately kill themselve to get the S$1.2m?Originally posted by Salman:Since you people complain, so where is the limit of your complaints?
So if $111k is not enough, how much is enough?
Stingy govt? -
Did anyone read the load of bullshit written by a Colonel in response to the article on the VIP treatment. The Colonel, at Mindef, makes no reference to the preferential treatment given to VIP sons. Just some ususla bullshit excuse.
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psoheng:
read again the col. did refer to the vips. -
u dun need to answer. we can answer that for u. Talk is cheap, and u only talk. So YOUR life is worth nothing. Now why don't u go die for the country?Originally posted by Salman:I asked first, don't run away from the question.
Answer me question and i will answer you question. -
Originally posted by Salman:
It seems that you have no courage to ask your parents how much value they place on your life - you must be quite worthless to them
I asked first, don't run away from the question.
Answer me question and i will answer you question.
Why bother with who asked the question first ?
You want to play "scissor, paper, stone" so as to determine who answer first ? -
Its seems you are running away from the question. If 111k is not enough, how much is enough? Is 500k enough? If not, then how much? Is 2million enough? How abt 5 million? Enough for you?
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hey, talk is easy. have u put yourself at personal risk for something u believe in? no? then shut up, NATO.Originally posted by Salman:Its seems you are running away from the question. If 111k is not enough, how much is enough? Is 500k enough? If not, then how much? Is 2million enough? How abt 5 million? Enough for you? -
I have answered your question!!!! Idiot!!!Originally posted by Salman:Its seems you are running away from the question. If 111k is not enough, how much is enough? Is 500k enough? If not, then how much? Is 2million enough? How abt 5 million? Enough for you? -
Read my posting - 16 posts up - on this page 3 - dated 16 January 2006 - Time 06.28a.m.Originally posted by Salman:Its seems you are running away from the question. If 111k is not enough, how much is enough? Is 500k enough? If not, then how much? Is 2million enough? How abt 5 million? Enough for you?
The answer is there - if you care to read before you shoot off in a blurrrrr
How about some honesty from you ?
How much value does your parents placed on this " very smoked salman " ?
It does not matter too much anyway you answer - is your answer of any value knowing how you depend on so much 'no brainer, one-liners' . -
extracted from stforum.
Why VIPs to Tekong get 'special treatment'
I REFER to Mr Lawrence Loh Kiah Muan's letter, 'VIPs' sons given special treatment in 1999' (ST, Jan 16). Mr Loh referred to his experience on enlistment day for his late son at the Basic Military Training Centre (BMTC) in Tekong in 1999.
As a matter of principle, Mindef deploys and treats all enlistees in the same way in national service. This applies also to the way we conduct our processes on enlistment day - all newly enlisted personnel are treated in the same way regardless of their background.
However, BMTC does normally facilitate the entry and exit from Tekong of persons holding national office to ensure their security and also as a basic courtesy and respect for their appointment.
We apologise for any inconvenience that may have been caused to Mr Loh and any other parents that day.
Col Benedict Lim
Director, Public Affairs
Ministry of Defence