Let those who intend to emigrate opt out of NS
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Jan 18, 2006
Let those who intend to emigrate opt out of NS
I REFER to the Insight article, 'Doers & dodgers: Time to heal the rift?' (ST, Jan 14).
I share the same sentiment as Mr Paul Wong, feeling no allegiance to Singapore and not being able to assimilate into Singaporean culture even though I was born and raised here.
As a child, I grew up watching classic American movies and cartoons, and listening to American-genre music like country, southern gospel and classic American oldies.
My paternal aunts and uncles are Ivy League students and speak with a slight American accent and use American grammar in speech. I was influenced by them.
Because I am the child of a Thai father and a Singaporean mother, I am a citizen of both Thailand and Singapore. I hold a Singapore passport and will have to serve national service next year.
I do not intend to live in Singapore and, in fact, have made serious plans to emigrate to the United States in future.
Many friends of mine who have gone overseas to study intend to settle down in their host country after serving national service.
I do not support the evasion of national service but I appeal to the Government to make some changes to the policy.
For those who do not intend to live in Singapore, there is no purpose in serving national service. It is a waste of resources for the Government and a waste of time for those affected.
In my case, I will renounce my Singapore citizenship at age 21 and take on Thai citizenship. The US will be my home in future and if a war breaks out between Singapore and the US, God forbid, obviously I would help to defend the US and fight Singapore if need be.
Therefore, I do not see the purpose of training men who might 'turn against' their country in unforeseen circumstances.
Perhaps the Ministry of Defence could come up with a policy to permit those who intend to emigrate to opt out of national service but if they do not leave by a certain age, then they would be drafted.
Patriotism and loyalty cannot be forced. It is ultimately up to an individual whether he wants to serve the country.
Pavin Limanont -
oh dear ... I grew up watching disney ... and till today I'm a consumer of American pop culture ... and a number of my relatives were also ivy league alumni ... does that make me American at heart too ? ... if people feel the same way he does, I guess half the world would be Americans too then eh ? ...
Certainly, a large number of Singaporeans would be, judging from the number of people who've never been to the US in their lives speaking with a pseudo American accent .... 
chap has a valid suggestion, no point wasting money training those who do not intend to stay ... but I find his flavour of "patriotism" rather amusing ....
and then there's the matter of implementation, what prevents people from declaring that they want to leave, and use it as a convenient excuse to "escape" NS, while changing their minds after they were too old to serve ? ... -
hi
you miss out this point
but if they do not leave by a certain age, then they would be drafted.
Patriotism and loyalty cannot be forced. It is ultimately up to an individual whether he wants to serve the country.
give the writer an unbiased reply without taking some words out from the content of his article. -
Originally posted by depressed:
so you're saying that people who declare that they do not intend to serve be kicked out ? by a certain age ? ...
hi
you miss out this point
[b]but if they do not leave by a certain age, then they would be drafted.
[/b] -
what kind of reasoning is that?
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Originally posted by depressed:
and that was my unbiased reply, I did say that the writer has a valid point ...
hi
you miss out this point
[b]but if they do not leave by a certain age, then they would be drafted.
Patriotism and loyalty cannot be forced. It is ultimately up to an individual whether he wants to serve the country.
give the writer an unbiased reply without taking some words out from the content of his article.[/b]
but I find the way he bases his loyalty on amusing ... think about it ... -
so you're saying that people who declare that they do not intend to serve be kicked out ? by a certain age ? ...
I m not saying anything. It's pointless anyway judging from the mervyn tan's thread
what he meant is those who never serve ns at a certain age had to be drafted, not kicked out from the ns system.but I find the way he bases his loyalty on amusing ... think about it ...
don't feel there is anything wrong with it since he sees himself more as an american from his upbringing. There are people who base their loyalty to countries that has a different culture and system when they migrate and settle down there. -
i like this .. =)
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So under this system, if I had intended to migrate to another country at the age of 45, I could apply to not serve NS?
Utter rubbish. -
well, if he wants to give up his singpore citizenship he is welcome to and then leave singpore, don't expect to stay in a country and enjoy the privilages of being a citizen of that country and still not want any responsibility...
as the article says, he is also a Thai citizen, he can go to thailand... or since all his relatives are ivy league then he must obviously come from a family with a bit of money... take the jump early and emigrate to the states then, quit whining about serving NS.
He can leave now pull a Melvyn Tan and not bother about coming back till he has his highly valued american citizenship...
Actually he should not blame the system, he should blame his parents.
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obviously he wants the best of both worlds.Originally posted by breytonhartge:well, if he wants to give up his singpore citizenship he is welcome to and then leave singpore, don't expect to stay in a country and enjoy the privilages of being a citizen of that country and still not want any responsibility...
as the article says, he is also a Thai citizen, he can go to thailand... or since all his relatives are ivy league then he must obviously come from a family with a bit of money... take the jump early and emigrate to the states then, quit whining about serving NS.
He can leave now and not bother about coming back till he has his highly valued american citizenship...
get to study here then emigrate to where he wants without serving NS. -
Yup, he had the option to leave instead of leeching off the efforts of hundreds of thousands of NS men to keep his worthless arse safe. This is obviously a case of a spoilt brat wanting to keep his cake and eat it.
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I am bemused by where Mr Pavin Limanont shown his loyalty to. He claimed that he held dual citizenship because of his SinThai parentage but intend to renounce Singapore for Thai citizenship in near future. This fully justified his last second sentence 'Patriotism and loyalty cannot be forced'. Later he talked about that as a child, he grew up watching and listening to classical American movies and music genre. So now he wants to base his loyalty to US and even come up with the absurd idea of what happen if war breaks out between US and Singapore.
Wow!
He definitly fits the bill of someone who will either defect or commit treason !!! -
I always feel that if people want to leave Singapore, they should leave now*.
Now - adverb
a : at the present time or moment b : in the time immediately before the present c : in the time immediately to follow -
Originally posted by Parka: I always feel that if people want to leave Singapore, they should leave now*.
Now - adverb
a : at the present time or moment b : in the time immediately before the present c : in the time immediately to follow Not "now", immediately, actually.
Plane tickets are quite affordable, relatively. -
His parents certainly did a splendid job of instilling moral values in him.
Its amazing that at this point, he states that he will fight against a country he grew up in, and is a citizen of, for another country that has not accepted him as a citizen.
I'm not sure about the laws here. Can he in fact renounce his citizenship at any time, or must he wait till he is 21? -
priviledges of being a citizen in singapore?
If I am not wrong foreigners in polytechnics and universities also get subsidies and even an allowance with guarantee of jobs after graduation with no obligations of serving NS.
Then shouldn't we get the foreigners to serve NS instead of the locals or even Mr Pavin Limanont since they have better benefits/priviledges than us? -
Sometimes, things are hard to be perfected. If you don't "force" people to go NS, some people are so afraid of NS that they can commit suicide. So based on this fear, I am certain there is a probability that some people will do anything to get out of NS, such as migrating to other countries. It would become a loop hole in a certain way, people will be moving out of Singapore in flocks, I mean, do you really believe the majority of Singapore men enjoy serving NS? The pay is really insulting. To add insult to injury, you are going to spend 2 years being scolded/tortured by people who sometimes abused their authority unfairly. Then there will be cover ups. If you ask me, going to NS is a necessity to protect the country, but NS men could do with more pay rather than the meagre money they call allowance. How can NS men serve the country well when they are filled with problems such as putting food on the table for the family, the PUB bills and stuff like that?
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While you're at it, why not ask for a free car and a house?Originally posted by depressed:priviledges of being a citizen in singapore?
If I am not wrong foreigners in polytechnics and universities also get subsidies and even an allowance with guarantee of jobs after graduation with no obligations of serving NS.
Then shouldn't we get the foreigners to serve NS instead of the locals or even Mr Pavin Limanont since they have better benefits/priviledges than us?
The pertinent privelege here is the safety provided by a citizen army. One might argue that such safety is a right, but looking at the number of currently war-torn countries, calling it a right might be taking it for granted.
The alternative is to hit taxpayers with a mother of a bill to maintain a full-sized regular military force. That way you won't have to do NS, but somehow I doubt that'll stop the whinging. -
Actually, Mr Pavin can avoid serving national service by returning his passport to the government of Singapore. If the Singapore passport is really so coveted, why not trade 2.5year of your life for it? After-all, Mr Pavin has already enjoyed the best English education one can get in Southeast Asia.. Mr Pavin is still entitled to his Thai passport.Originally posted by depressed:I do not intend to live in Singapore and, in fact, have made serious plans to emigrate to the United States in future.
I am not exactly pro-NS, but why should he treated differently from anyone else who grew up in Singapore. Everybody should be treated equally. As long you grew up in Singapore, and has the Singapore passport, please serve the National Service. If you do not intend to serve the national service, do not apply for the Singapore passport.
A Note to Mr Pavin: read the fine lines in future. -
Performing National Service is one's duty to the Country, to militarily prepare oneself to be part of a military organisation in defense of this place which we are building our home with family and friends.
Regardless of our Politics, regardless of our preferences and grievances towards whichever Political Parties - we should all drop all partisan loyalties and train together to be an effective force to defend this small piece of land from any aggressors.
This is PATRIOTISM and LOYATLY to this piece of land which we have decided to call our Home.
We may not agree on Politics but this is our place on earth.
It is unfortunate that Pavin Limanont could not find a place in his heart to feel towards this place on earth that all of us are proud of.
If there is any HONOR left in him, and in his parents, for his sake - he should give up his use of the SINGAPORE PASSPORT from which he has drawn so much privileges when travelling with this piece of SINGAPORE IDENTITY. -
If there is any HONOR left in him, and in his parents, for his sake - he should give up his use of the SINGAPORE PASSPORT from which he has drawn so much privileges when travelling with this piece of SINGAPORE IDENTITY.
If you do not intend to serve the national service, do not apply for the Singapore passport.
I agree. But according to what I heard, one is unable to renounce Singapore citizenship until he hits 21 years of age. I dont think the authorities in charge will let him give up his Singapore passport. And my guess is that his parents applied Singapore citizenship when he was young, not his own personal choice.
If only migrating was that easy, especially for those with NS obligations. -
Obviously, his parents didn't know enough about NS to make long-term plans for him when he came into this world and now he has to suffer/waste his life for 2 years.
Too bad. -
While you're at it, why not ask for a free car and a house?
did i mention that my definition of priviledges includes a car and a house?
The pertinent privelege here is the safety provided by a citizen army. One might argue that such safety is a right, but looking at the number of currently war-torn countries, calling it a right might be taking it for granted.
The alternative is to hit taxpayers with a mother of a bill to maintain a full-sized regular military force. That way you won't have to do NS, but somehow I doubt that'll stop the whinging.
don't foreigners get the priviledge u called safety provided by a citizen army if they stay here as well? other countries can provide safety, why should safety to be considered a priviledge when Mr Pavin could get those from most countries in the world? from his country, Thailand as well? why does Japan, without a citizen army, does not suffer from a war past 1945? how many wars are there after WWII? to me its just pure hyprocrisy that we have to ask someone to serve NS here on the basis of priviledges when it is evident that the bulk of the priviledges like job priorities, study allowances from the government goes to women and foreigners instead of NSmen.
I am curious you are speaking out against the writer. If I am not wrong, you used to be a commando and you are at present, staying and living in Australia. Is it because you have to serve NS before you could leave for Australia that you are opposed to the writer's idea? would you still harbor the same view if you do not have to serve NS?
I am sure the thousands of millions spent by the government on unnecessary upgrading exercises could be put to good use. It is too early to conclude whether having a full-sized regular millitary force would stop the whining. -
aiyah.. actually just serve the 2 years.. once come out can show off to girls that you serve Ns..