M'sia to build cynic bridge
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In the 1st place, as years goes by, shipping lines have realised Pelepas productivity is not that as great as the Malaysian port has touted. 1 crane only handles abt 30+ TEU per hr compared with 50+ TEU per hr here at PSA Singapore Terminal...Originally posted by JI^guy:Well, whatever it is, those working in the port must be willing to take a pay cut. The "opening" of the Strait of Johor will undoubtly increase competition for Singapore's ports now that Tanjung Pelapas and Pasir Gudang are directly linked by sea. I doubt Klang will be a major threat as it is too far up North and would not be in a position as good as Singapore for ships heading to Australia. I think our only salvation now probably lies in the biomedical sciences as our ports will probably lose out to Tanjung Pelapas and Pasir Gudang because of prices unless all our port employees are willing to take a 60% pay cut.
Klang has snatched CMA CGM from PSA back in 1996
Another issue is regards to shipping alliances, such glue the shipping lines together, that's why Petronas Subsidary - MISC have been using PSA terminal even as they have developed Johor
Another issue is the draft, Johor Straits can't handle big ships as of the Tuas 2nd Link bridge pillars
Anyway, back in Malaysia, many of my relatives are complaining as the $$ used for the bridge could have been used to help to improve public transportation in JB -
2.Originally posted by Dr Who:Malaysia has every right to do what they want with the bridge, it's their territory, it's their cash.
Singaporeans should not comment on other people's rights.
Don't be kaypoh.
---REMARKS BY MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS PROFESSOR S JAYAKUMAR, IN PARLIAMENT IN REPLY TO QUESTIONS ON SINGAPORE-MALAYSIA RELATIONS, 5 JANUARY 2004
Our TPN(Third Party Note) pointed out that international facilities such as the Causeway cannot be lawfully demolished without the approval, agreement and involvement of both States. -
Someone in another forum said that the Straits between Sarimbun in LCK and Johor is far too shallow (5m deep) for cargo or container ships to pass....
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I think they will have to touch the pipeline at some point but before that I suspect they will propose to build at their cost temporary pipelines connecting PUB johore to singapore mainland via the unused straits seabed so that just before they cut the old pipeline we can divert the water into the temporary pipeline. So this way there won't be any interruption to supply.Originally posted by lionnoisy:
And after they complete their new causeway divert the water back into new permanent water pipes that will be running along their new causeway.
In the end it's up to our government how they want to respond. -
Really think GCT, LKY and LHL would give way and build a bridge....
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The bridge will not benefit Singapore, so why build it?
Lots of shopping and jobs will pass over the Johor like that.
I'm not sure abt shallow waters in the straits, can't they dredge it if they really want big ships to pass? -
Issue comes to costOriginally posted by Salman:The bridge will not benefit Singapore, so why build it?
Lots of shopping and jobs will pass over the Johor like that.
I'm not sure abt shallow waters in the straits, can't they dredge it if they really want big ships to pass?
MY govt gives all these projects just to benefit the Bumiputras -
Actually the higher the cost the project the better cos they will have more chance to leech that Petronas money. Thats the way it works in Msia.
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Dear Salman I concur wi your statement
Actually the higher the cost the project the better cos they will have more chance to leech that Petronas money. Thats the way it works in Msia.
I also think the Spore Garmen has the wrong idea of conflicting wi the M'sians garmen there.. if they can see co-operation wi them is a far better idea!
What is a few billions wasted elsewhere like building up nests in China, India, Vietnam and all over the world as if the garmen can control all their assets when the time is Up with the writing on the Wall
U r weighted and found wanting.. 
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Malaysian press reported that the 2 ports in Johor stand to gain...
Again, giving more jobs for the bumis... They already have truck haul svs that is much faster
And they have forgotten that what they did to us years back, made PSA even stronger to fight back -
JI^guy
wrote:
Well, the whole point of building the bridge is to take business away from Singapore. Currently, ships must sail around Singapore to get from the Strait of Malacca to the South China Sea but with the causeway dismantled, ships can sail directly from Tanjung Pelapas to Pasir Gudang without going around Singapore. Therefore, businessmen would choose Malaysia over Singapore due to lower prices. I think this is Malaysia's attempt to drive Singapore into a corner since they failed to get Thailand to build the Kra Canal across the Isthmus of Kra.
May I suggest that your information is great, but the facts are altogether misleading to think M'sians need that kind of business.. We all can understand why Singaporeans are always thinking in terms of business sense which is exactly nonsense with most Malaysians..
Please kindly allow me to disgree with another SingaporeanJI^guy's POV.. I reflects mine from another point of view at.. http://www.sgwiki.com/wiki/Causeway
that is a matter far more important than money issue..it's our national security concerns -
Been over to our Northern neighbours a couple of days back and I realise this whole 'cynic bridge' is going to be much of a hassle and the joke of all times!
Why do I say that?
1) Malaysian Constructing Companies are doing such a poor job in maintaining their own networks of roads an buildings; how more can they screw up this new construction?? Just look at the roads (heading to SG) that lead to their customs - blocked here and there, improper barricades and direction flow. Some of the pillingsmay cause hazzards to drivers!
2) How the hell are they going to divert traffic to start work on the new bridge? Those big lorries, busses that enter leave JB/SG are going to face huge problems negotiating the diversions.
3) I don't think they need a new bridge; they should start slowly and perhaps begin by having better and efficient Customs Officers; the ones they have are simply inefficient, slow and sometimes rude too!
4) I believe that the money spent on the bridge should be put to better use on other things such as developing those run-down areas all around JB; not to mentioned the whole country itself.
5) My bet is they will take a mightttty long time to built that bridge. HAha
But in agreeing to built the new bridge, I bet our government has other plans as well; the people there must have carefully weigh the pros & cons and must have come to the decision with proper and carefull thinking. They must have seen either something beneficial to SG or something detrimental to MY in times to come. Lets all sit-back and see! -
i think causeway customs officers should be paid salary equal to singapore customs with the money save by not building the bridge. The side roads around city square are even dangerous and have holes all over the pavements. They too should be repaired.
What i don;t like is , in the end, users have to pay toll charges. They could range from rm2 to rm10 for vehicles. -
lol how the heck they gonna build it
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Take a look at the Checkpoint now, the Bus/ Motor Customs and the Car lanes are now physically seperated as the pillars of the bridge have been constructedOriginally posted by SBS9828X:lol how the heck they gonna build it -
What does it matter to you if "they will have more chance to leech that Petronas money" ?Originally posted by Salman:Actually the higher the cost the project the better cos they will have more chance to leech that Petronas money. Thats the way it works in Msia.
It is "THEIR" Petronas money afterall ?
Is it not odd that you are so defensive of the Singapore Ruling Political Party a.k.a the Singapore Government, and yet on this occassion you prefer not to stand on grounds that will benefit Singapore ?
Is it not odd that the Singapore Ruling Political Party will put the Malaysian - Singaporean relationship at jeopardy for MORE THEN TEN years over the issue of the Causeway bridge that cost a mere RM3 BILLION - which is only a sneeze, when Singapore have spent S$3 BILLION to benefit the relationship between the No 2 Family of Thailand and the No 1 Family in Singapore ?
If ever a bridge is to replace the Causeway - should Singapore be concerned in losing out in any strategic competition with Malaysia ?
Malaysia maybe more blessed by its bountiful but limited natural resources, however, it is handicapped by their own characteristic Malaysian style of political-social ethic, culture, and system that is led by an artificial contract between their various races that does not allow the most capable to be in the Leadership position.
Any bridge built to connect two countries can only benefit both countries.
The bridge to replace the Causeway will benefit Singapore and Malaysia in the flow of people, trade and commerce in both directions. -
Seems ppl have forgotten the way Dr M treated us at the works commencing ceremony back in V Day 2002... "We love you, come and spend your money here"...
Even last yr the Bird Flu, AVA here always like to view MY side do nothing, so when 1 bird flu case surfaced just because of 1 smuggled fight chicken, total ban was imposed -
Atobe..quote Is it not odd that the Singapore Ruling Political Party will put the Malaysian - Singaporean relationship at jeopardy for MORE THEN TEN years over the issue of the Causeway bridge that cost a mere [b]RM3 BILLION - which is only a sneeze, when Singapore have spent S$3 BILLION to benefit the relationship between the No 2 Family of Thailand and the No 1 Family in Singapore ?[/b]
well U put in such a excellent way.. nobody in S'pore could..
Cheers!
a sneeze for a snout! -
As it turn out, in the February 5 edition of the Sunday Times - "Mr George Yeo reiterated that the cost to Singapore of building its half of the full bridge would be high. The price tag - over $500 million."
It is amazing that the Singapore Government a.k.a the Ruling Political Party is willing pay 15 times the propective 2006 earnings to buy Shin Corp for a sum of S$3 BILLION - which gave a WINDFALL benefit to ONE THAI FAMILY; but will hold to ransom the future goodwill and relationship between two countries with a COMBINED POPULATION of TWENTY-EIGHT MILLION.
Could we have saved all those hassle and heartburn in the acrimonious relations with Malaysia for the last TEN YEARS ?
Could the relationship have gone beyond the present cordiality, if realism and goodwill had been the foundation over the last TEN YEARS ? -
Atobe write here:
It is amazing that the Singapore Government a.k.a the Ruling Political Party is willing pay 15 times the propective 2006 earnings to buy Shin Corp for a sum of S$3 BILLION - which gave a WINDFALL benefit to ONE THAI FAMILY; but will hold to ransom the future goodwill and relationship between two countries with a COMBINED POPULATION of TWENTY-EIGHT MILLION.
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It so happened in Singapore we have one half Prime Minister and another half finance minister with two conflict hats to wear, and he too is confused with figuring what to do Lah! But..Mr Senior Minister Goh is now doing it for him in Malaysia..
and hopefully that will help turn the old table around.. But, but, but that.. is still around he won't let someone as another younger senior to ran all the show..U know! My guess is they want their old pound of flesh to prove the point! -
Originally posted by Atobe:
First of all, whether its a windfall for Thaksin is arguable because it could have been sold at a higher price to some other party or to the market. The purpose of the sale is to divest business from politics.
It is amazing that the Singapore Government a.k.a the Ruling Political Party is willing pay [b]15 times the propective 2006 earnings to buy Shin Corp for a sum of S$3 BILLION - which gave a WINDFALL benefit to ONE THAI FAMILY; but will hold to ransom the future goodwill and relationship between two countries with a [b]COMBINED POPULATION of TWENTY-EIGHT MILLION.
Secondly, two major thai sharholders were involved, not one.
Thirdly, gains were made by most common folks who hold more than 50% of the shares.
The ball is actuallybwithin the court of the Msians, not us.
Could we have saved all those hassle and heartburn in the acrimonious relations with Malaysia for the last TEN YEARS ?
Could the relationship have gone beyond the present cordiality, if realism and goodwill had been the foundation over the last TEN YEARS ?
It is they who have been making things difficult for us.
Why do you want to sell us out to the Msians Atobe? -
Originally posted by Salman:
First of all, can you even understand that at whatever price higher then the SIXTEEN TIMES of the PROSPECTIVE 2006 earniings that Temasek have concluded would have been a WINDFALL - regardless of who is paying. .
Post by Atobe:
It is amazing that the Singapore Government a.k.a the Ruling Political Party is willing pay 15 times the propective 2006 earnings to buy Shin Corp for a sum of S$3 BILLION - which gave a WINDFALL benefit to ONE THAI FAMILY; but will hold to ransom the future goodwill and relationship between two countries with a COMBINED POPULATION of TWENTY-EIGHT MILLION.
First of all, whether its a windfall for Thaksin is arguable because it could have been sold at a higher price to some other party or to the market. The purpose of the sale is to divest business from politics.
Secondly, two major thai sharholders were involved, not one.
Thirdly, gains were made by most common folks who hold more than 50% of the shares.
Unfortunately, there were no one else who were foolish enough to buy an insignificant Thai business at a price offer that Temasek has paid at a sum 16 Times MORE then the prospective 2006 earnings. .
Secondly, the 'two major thai shareholders' were none other then the son and daughter of the Thai Prime Minister - who SUDDENLY were announced as the PRINCIPAL shareholder of the Company that benefit from this Windfall.
Thirdly, if the gains were made by most common folks who hold more than 50% of the shares - what do you think is causing all the furore in Bangkok and all over Thailand ? .
Is it not surprising that the Citizens of a Third World country such as Thailand can enjoy a higher degree of freedom to protest over this transaction, while the Citizens of a FIRST WORLD country such as Singapore - can only quietly and cynically accept our money being spent to benefit ONE FAMILY on share prices that are pegged at 16 TIMES the prospective earnings forecasted for 2006 ? .
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Is the ball now within the court of the Msians ?
Could we have saved all those hassle and heartburn in the acrimonious relations with Malaysia for the last TEN YEARS ?
Could the relationship have gone beyond the present cordiality, if realism and goodwill had been the foundation over the last TEN YEARS ?
The ball is actuallybwithin the court of the Msians, not us.
It is they who have been making things difficult for us.
Why do you want to sell us out to the Msians Atobe?
Why was it reported that the officials from both sides are not asked to 'expedite' the conclusion or crystallizing the details of all issues to be presented to the respective Prime Ministers ? .
Where on earth do you get your information to feed your "no brainer" lines ?
Not so smart to try to stir nationalistic feelings by insinuating "attempt on my part to sell out to the Msians" - by your kind of 'no brainer' characteristic, any conclusion will constitute to being a "sell out". .
In any negotiation, it is not simply how much one can get for ourselves but also the balance of the greater good that can be achieved for the people on both sides that can only lead to a less acrimonious relationship. .
We have nothing to fear from the Malaysians in any competition - not when their system is based on a culture of patronage, and a political-social contract amongst their multi-racial communities that DO NOT allow the best to be in a Leadership position. .
Hope you are not drinking "black crude" thinking it is "black coffee" ? .
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cynic bridge..
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Besides quote
cynic bridge..
why name suggest a new list for all to contribute.. I got one here ready to go:
Well.. [[brain]]y friends all r welcome to contribute over at Sgwiki there..
'''Bridge of Co-Prosperity''' would this be the [[new name]] of the [[Causeway]]? 04:53, 6 February 2006 (SGT)
Contribute here to the new list of names for the new Bridge..
* the Causeway
* the Nuetral Bridge
* the Singapore - Johore Bridge
* the Johor-Singapore Causeway
* the Longest Walk
* Meldrum Way
* Snake Bridge
* Monkey Bridge
* Double Happiness Bridge
* Causeway Link
* The Golden Link
* The Halfway Friendship Bridge
* The Johor New Bridge
* Immigration Link
* Causeway Road Link
* The Common Cause
* The Scenic Causeway < not a name, anyway!>
* the Double S bridge...hehehhehe!
http://www.sgwiki.com/index.php?title=Bridge_of_Co-Prosperity&action=edit&internaledit=true -
the bridge is redundant