Online petition to PM Lee Hsien Loong to lower utility fees
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Petition to PM Lee Hsien Loong to lower utility charges as follows:
(1) 20% across the board rebate
(2) To put on hold any further fee increases for 5 years
(3) To grant temporary relief loan (capped at $5,000) to long-unemployed.
It was recommended to finance the above-stated non-welfare emergency reliefs from endowment funds set up from 20% of national surplus (currently US$130 billions) and other off-budget surpluses of various ministries and department of the Republic of Singapore involved in profit-making market-based business activities using the citizens' monies e.g. Government linked companies, Urban Redevelopment Authority, Housing & Development Board, Land Transport Authority, Capital Land Ltd, Keppel Land Ltd, and more from property development, marine and insurance businesses etc and sale of commercial land sites, vehicle excise/COE/ERP.
(View full text of petition at: http://www.petitiononline.com/rs123457/petition.html
(Note: This petition has been posted but was deactivated - probably a technical error. Inconvenience regretted. Now I have re-posted it again.
Perhaps, you may give sign in to support it at:
http://new.petitiononline.com/rs123457/petition-sign.html? -
Originally posted by robertteh:
Why? What for? Especially when oil prices are still going up?
[b]Petition to PM Lee Hsien Loong to lower utility charges as follows:
(1) 20% across the board rebate
Again why? For what? In the midst of a economic boom and increasing oild prices? Doesn't that sound very irresponsible of you?
(2) To put on hold any further fee increases for 5 years
What if oil prices shoot to more than USD200 per barrel 5 years later. Will the citizens be made to pay a surged increase and also repay back losses by Singapore Power?
$5000 huh? Thats a lot of money and it will encourage continued unemployment and make things worst. I think the present garnt and reliefs will do better. Better still, you donate directly to teh poor yourself.
(3) To grant temporary relief loan (capped at $5,000) to long-unemployed.
20%?! Thats irresponsible! This will destabilise the country even when there is no recession! So what happens when hard times come? Remember, most of our assets are actually real estate in Singapore, not cash.
It was recommended to financed the above-stated non-welfare reliefs from endowment funds allocated from 20% of national surplus (currently US$130 billions) and ministries and department profit-making market-based charges e.g. sale of commercial land sites, vehicle excise/COE/ERP. -
Text of OnLine Petition to Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong is given below:-
You may submit any petition online at:www.PetitionOnLine.com
To: Prime Minister of Republic of Singapore
That the government of Singapore more specifically the Prime Minister Mr. Lee Hsien Loong will lower the fees in respect of provisions of essential critical services under a special non-welfare relief-of-hardship scheme to temporarily relieve the prolonged hardships of long-unemployed citizens and their immediate dependent families as follows:-
(a) Lower the fees of provision of utility services (water/electricity) by 20% across the board (not necessarily tantamount to subsidy) with the discount or rebate being borne by a system of endowment fund allocated from 20% of national reserves (currently US$130 billions) so as to lower the persistent social problems due to inabilities of unemployed citizens to pay for living expenses as a result of current high costs relating to these market-based fees;
(b) Put on hold for a period of 5 years any further fee increases in provision of utility services.
(c ) To cease charging the portion of costs of provision of utility services attributable to fixed asset/infrastructure/land components of costs as lands and fixed/infrastructure costs were either acquired by the state at no costs or nominal costs, already paid under taxation or could be easily borne by annual budget surpluses or regular taxations. Such reversal of fees in respect of essential utility services could be alternatively borne by profit-making departments and ministries charging market-level fees e.g. sales of commercial sites, public housing and vehicle excise/COE/ERP.
(d) Lending unemployment relief loans (capped at $5,000) financed from 20% of national reserve at 0% interest for 3 years to assist employers in engaging long-unemplyed citizens over 6 months so as to incentivise employers to helping to clear backlog of persistent unemployed.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned -
So who is avoiding questions here.
What a nonsensical petition.
Lets look at the petition above.
It doesn't give any good reasons why tax payers should be doing all this subsidising and it is simply irresponsible.
Then he expects the govt to agree with him. What for? Why? -
deleted.
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Originally posted by robertteh:
[b]
Haha, this is a typical Salmanising ; dismissing main issues without substantiation : (1) "what a nonsensical petition" (avoiding issue here : utility company's double-charges on land and network costs is unwarranted like the HDB's double-charge on land costs in selling flats as such lands and networks were already paid by taxpayers some years ago under taxations)
(2) "simply irresponsible" (one-liner whining against other's views; with name calling, avoiding main issues: over-charging on utility in the first place. It is for the government to explain not the people to have to search and probe the high utility fees - if it is to build more reserves, it is for whom , Singaporeans or government's spending on more wonders or salaries and bonus payout from reserves?} -
Originally posted by Salman:
Reply by Salman
Original post by robertteh:
[b]Petition to PM Lee Hsien Loong to lower utility charges as follows:
(1) 20% across the board rebate
Why? What for? Especially when oil prices are still going up?
At a 2005 Asia Excise Taxation Conference, Singapore – 3 March 2005, it was stated that
"Today, the excise duty on motor spirit ranges from $3.70 to $7.10 per decalitre" (see Page 5 Point 21) .
At this low rate, it is surprising that Petrol Retail Prices in Singapore remains as high as those found in Hong Kong, China, Japan, UK and even the USA, where prices are open to market forces.
These high petrol prices exist in Singapore despite the fact that Singapore is the second largest refinery center (after Rotterdam) in the World
Is some group profiting excessively with the Government approval ?
We know that Petroleum Companies claim increase in fuel costs to justify price increases, we also know that Petroleum Companies pay SIX-MONTH BONUS to their employees - whose wages form part of the cost of fuel processing.
We all know that Fuel Taxation is a tool of Government to achieve specific objectives.
In Singapore, Fuel Tax was used as part of Government Policy to control and dampen the rampant growth in the car population size.
With the succesful implementation of the COE and ERP that has tamed the wild growth of the car population, is there any need for the Fuel Prices to be used as a tool ?
Any cut to the Fuel Tax will help to lower the Cost of Living and help Singapore to be even more competitive.
Can the prejudiced and small mind of a smoked Salman understand such issues ?:Posted by robbertteh
Reply by Salman
(2) To put on hold any further fee increases for 5 years
Again why? For what? In the midst of a economic boom and increasing oild prices? Doesn't that sound very irresponsible of you?
Economic boom ?
A July 2005 report had stated that High Employment Rate had dampen Retail Sales in 2005 and in a separate October 2005 report it was stated Singapore Exports fell in September by 3.3 percent
What economic boom are you referring to ?
Where are those substantive sources that you are basing your opinions on - when you expect "whiners" to prove the positions taken ?
Why are you not applying the same standard to your type of "whining" ?:continuing reply by Salman
What if oil prices shoot to more than USD200 per barrel 5 years later. Will the citizens be made to pay a surged increase and also repay back losses by Singapore Power?
Is it possible for "oil prices shoot to more than USD200 per barrel 5 years later" ?
Are you trying to be an alarmist, or simply trying to make an impression ?
If you are attempting at being authoritative, at least make some effort not to show the hollowness of your opinion.
In a report that indicated Global crude oil prices look set to stay high the trend does not seem to indicate the alarmist levels of US$200 per barrel in five years time.
Taking a long term look at the Oil Prices - History and Analysis - at critical points of history, crude oil price have seen some spikes as during the Post-WW2 Petroleum Embargo, during the Yom Kippur War in which OPEC responded with an embargo on countries that supported Israel; crisis in Iran and Iraq had all affected oil prices.
However, we should not forget that oil prices is largely influenced by major oil producing and consumer countries, and not necessarily in anyone's favor.
Can your scenario of USD200 per barrel be true ?
What is the basis of such a statement ?
Was it made in your callous "no brainer, one-liner" ?:Posted by robbertteh
Reply by Salman:
(3) To grant temporary relief loan (capped at $5,000) to long-unemployed.
$5000 huh? Thats a lot of money and it will encourage continued unemployment and make things worst. I think the present garnt and reliefs will do better. Better still, you donate directly to teh poor yourself.
Before you give your "knee jerk" reaction - note that this is a TEMPORARY RELIEF LOAN - how can your preferred "present garnt and reliefs" do better ?
What is the basis of your statement made ?
At the published rate of 3.3% of the population being unemployed, can we assume the number to be 148,500 ?
Of these 180,000 unemployed, can we assume that 30% is experiencing 'long term' unemployment - which amounts to 44,550 workers.
The total number of 44,550 workers on long term unemployment will receive a mere sum of $22.2 Million only.
This TEMPORARY LOAN AMOUNT of $22.2 MILLION will mean alot more to these 44,550 needy persons - than the 19 MINISTERS receiving $38 MILLION ANNUALLY - and with the $38 MILLION paid as SALARY and NOT A TEMPORARY LOAN .
In the first place, were you not against handout at all ?
Confused by too long an attempt at running circles around us ?:Posted by robertteh
Reply by Salman
It was recommended to financed the above-stated non-welfare reliefs from endowment funds allocated from 20% of national surplus (currently US$130 billions) and ministries and department profit-making market-based charges e.g. sale of commercial land sites, vehicle excise/COE/ERP.
20%?! Thats irresponsible! This will destabilise the country even when there is no recession! So what happens when hard times come? Remember, most of our assets are actually real estate in Singapore, not cash.
What is the basis of all your hot air statements ?
"most of our assets are actually real estate in Singapore, not cash" .
How and where do you think GIC and Temasek get those BILLIONS that they are investing in their overseas financial adventures ?
How much do you understand about an Endowment Scheme that qualify you to make your statements in such an authoritative hollow way ?
Before you shoot your mouth off in a trajectory into the vacuum of outer space, have you checked your facts first, or is your interest only to make the loudest noise within your infinite vacuum in thought ? -
salman, y r u objecting this petition when robertteh is trying to reduce our daily expenses of electricity bill? does it occur to u tat if tis petition is successful, YOU WILL also BENEFIT from it?
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If you agree, you sign.Originally posted by Salman:So who is avoiding questions here.
What a nonsensical petition.
Lets look at the petition above.
It doesn't give any good reasons why tax payers should be doing all this subsidising and it is simply irresponsible.
Then he expects the govt to agree with him. What for? Why?
If you don't, just keep quiet and find something else to do instead of inviting flames. -
Is this a good thing for the country as a whole?Originally posted by RaTtY81:salman, y r u objecting this petition when robertteh is trying to reduce our daily expenses of electricity bill? does it occur to u tat if tis petition is successful, YOU WILL also BENEFIT from it? -
Originally posted by Salman:
If you do not know the answer - why are you not being honest about it ? .
Is this a good thing for the country as a whole?
Why show your stupendous stupidity in such an arrogant way ? .
Why pose your questions without any clear thinking ? .
What does it matter to you if lower the utility fees benefit the country as a SINGULAR WHOLE or otherwise ? .
Can you understand the significant difference that matters in any way ? .
Your effort at running circles around anyone is a poor attempt at engaging others directly, and is merely an indication of you running away from having a serious debate based on fact - which you cannot present in any form. . -
salman simply believes in everything the govt is telling us.
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20% across the board... sounds a bit too much. Furthermore, it's across the board. PAP will probably tax us from somewhere. Not worth it.Originally posted by robertteh:Petition to PM Lee Hsien Loong to lower utility charges as follows:
(1) 20% across the board rebate
(2) To put on hold any further fee increases for 5 years
(3) To grant temporary relief loan (capped at $5,000) to long-unemployed.
It was recommended to financed the above-stated non-welfare reliefs from endowment funds allocated from 20% of national surplus (currently US$130 billions) and ministries and department profit-making market-based charges e.g. sale of commercial land sites, vehicle excise/COE/ERP.
You may sign your petition at :http://www.petitiononline.com/cgi-bin/create_petition.cgi?rs123456
No fee increases in the next 5 years is disastrous. Like the polys and uni, there's a few years when the fees didn't increase. When it increased, it is very huge. I won't want that.
Granting temporary relief loan at $5000 to the long unemployed will only spoil them. They will not want to work. -
If there has been a creative accounting in HDB or PS to make the fees look like just sufficient or not enough to cover expenses, do we citizens know the true facts.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:20% across the board... sounds a bit too much. Furthermore, it's across the board. PAP will probably tax us from somewhere. Not worth it.
No fee increases in the next 5 years is disastrous. Like the polys and uni, there's a few years when the fees didn't increase. When it increased, it is very huge. I won't want that.
Granting temporary relief loan at $5000 to the long unemployed will only spoil them. They will not want to work.
If we are given the facts it might show a different picture. Citizens have been brainwashed by media and compliant parliamentary debates into believing the subsidy stories.
Citizens should ask for figures on how the land costs are charged by HDB and PS in their computation of HDB flat prices and PS utility charges before believing in the government figures.
To my opinion, HDB has made huge profits so has PS if government do not compute the land costs and fixed infrastructure costs into their lflat prices and fees.
If the HDB and PS give up charging on lands, and infrastructure costs already paid by taxpayers, are they losing monies. I think not. I think they are still making monies. Only thing is citizens already believe their stories and cooperate with paying more and more ...
It is about time after the NKF to get government to reveal all and let the excessive land costs or infrastructure costs which were doubly charged return to the people in the form of lowering costs of living or not increasing any more fees as stated in the petition. -
I doubt a petition will work because if the goverment bows to a petition, it means in future they would have to entertain myriads of petitions. Its better to evaluate the Pros and Cons of the proposal, and forward it to the Workers Party or other relevant opposition parties.
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Even if petitions don't work, people can still work with togethernessso that they will be be a force to be reckoned with and not be taken for granted in future decisions or elections.Originally posted by Calvin86:I doubt a petition will work because if the goverment bows to a petition, it means in future they would have to entertain myriads of petitions. Its better to evaluate the Pros and Cons of the proposal, and forward it to the Workers Party or other relevant opposition parties.
If oppositions cannot take off, at least the people will have a way to express their views and suggestions, e.g. through the nets, blogging and petitions and operate as citizen watchdogs. -
Not increasing fees is impossible. In fact, I would rather they increase than not doing anything. Increasing means it will be staggered over the years. Not increasing means after donkey years, the increase will be huge. And it will cause an uproar. The university fees increased a few years ago by a lot. It caused a small "uproar". Not recommended.Originally posted by robertteh:If there has been a creative accounting in HDB or PS to make the fees look like just sufficient or not enough to cover expenses, do we citizens know the true facts.
If we are given the facts it might show a different picture. Citizens have been brainwashed by media and compliant parliamentary debates into believing the subsidy stories.
Citizens should ask for figures on how the land costs are charged by HDB and PS in their computation of HDB flat prices and PS utility charges before believing in the government figures.
To my opinion, HDB has made huge profits so has PS if government do not compute the land costs and fixed infrastructure costs into their lflat prices and fees.
If the HDB and PS give up charging on lands, and infrastructure costs already paid by taxpayers, are they losing monies. I think not. I think they are still making monies. Only thing is citizens already believe their stories and cooperate with paying more and more ...
It is about time after the NKF to get government to reveal all and let the excessive land costs or infrastructure costs which were doubly charged return to the people in the form of lowering costs of living or not increasing any more fees as stated in the petition. -
Fat Hope, if you think you can get LHL to do all these.
Since when in Singapore's history did PAP ever listened to us? -
Can't signOriginally posted by robertteh:You may sign your petition at :http://www.petitiononline.com/cgi-bin/create_petition.cgi?rs123456
Click on the link.....
Got this msg......Pending petition not found. Perhaps you have already activated it.
Why is that -
Originally posted by Young@heart:
Sorry about this deactivation of the first petition sent. I have re-posted it at Read the head post again.
Can't sign
Click on the link.....
Got this msg......[b]Pending petition not found. Perhaps you have already activated it.
Why is that [/b]
Perhaps enough people have to sign in as otherwise it will be deactivated due to inactivity. Any one who feel the same are requested to sign the petition (email given in signing of petition will remain private for petition hosting company to reach you in event of needs? -
Dear Forumers,
Sorry about a certain technical error. Petition is now re-posted for your reading and signing.
Please forward this petition to as many people as possible for their support and sign it.
In my opinion, citizens should help themselves now as few people will do so if they do not help themselves to make changes.
Active citizenry could set as example to want to make changes. They should try to help the unfortunate fellow-citizens who are struggling to make ends meet. Who knows, one day we might need this kind of emergency assistance.
In any event, by being collective in posting or petitioning reasonable requests, we could check on government high-cost and other draconian policies.
http://www.petitiononline.com/rs123457/petition.html -
Hi....I know u all mean well, but these petitions will be bad for Singapore. Please give it a thought.
Economics will be mixed with politics.
It would be a populist policy, if these petitions are implemented.
Populist policy will make a nation collapse. Sooner or later. It does no good at all. It ruins the economy as well as the society.
By implementing this, the utility company will have to disregard economics and market based principles, and will incur loss/ inefficiency.
It also encourage welfarism among the populace.
And induce labour market inefficiency/ ineffectiveness.
The intrusion of the political hand will make the invisible market hand weak.
I know some of u are concerned abt unemployed and tough times. But the govt is towards the right direction, with workers retraining programs and setting up job-matching centres.
Plus if people are really in need and cant pay bills, they can approach the already available channels, either the government linked ones, or private from charity organizations.
Thats the more right way to go. Dont go down the other path. -
Currently all the government services are priced at full market prices and in some cases above market prices: e.g. utility services, housing, are charged at super-inflated prices because they included land costs and fixed asset costs which were already paid for by the taxpayers from taxations.Originally posted by Li Ka Shing:Hi....I know u all mean well, but these petitions will be bad for Singapore. Please give it a thought.
Economics will be mixed with politics.
It would be a populist policy, if these petitions are implemented.
Populist policy will make a nation collapse. Sooner or later. It does no good at all. It ruins the economy as well as the society.
By implementing this, the utility company will have to disregard economics and market based principles, and will incur loss/ inefficiency.
It also encourage welfarism among the populace.
And induce labour market inefficiency/ ineffectiveness.
The intrusion of the political hand will make the invisible market hand weak.
I know some of u are concerned abt unemployed and tough times. But the govt is towards the right direction, with workers retraining programs and setting up job-matching centres.
Plus if people are really in need and cant pay bills, they can approach the already available channels, either the government linked ones, or private from charity organizations.
Thats the more right way to go. Dont go down the other path.
Other high government fees and charges are causing hardship to the citizens not just the lower income groups but middle income group as well e.g medicare, transportation, port dues and handling, stamp fees etc.
Under such a market-based fees and charges, and double-charging on land and fixed costs, government is making profits and all the taxes collected accumulate into huge surpluses stifling the growths of the economy.
The economy has been going downhill since the 1997s. The final return to positive growth in GDP in 2005 is a mere blip due to correction from prolonged recession and some external world recovery.
Our economy has not been upgraded to value-adding advanced technology model like that of Asian Tigers and does not look set to grow further because the essential services are charged way too high due to lands and other asset costs being charged again.
Which is a better way to go - stifling our economic growth due to land-inflated government fees and charges or reverse the past creative accounting and policy mistakes and make fundametal adjustments and let economy grow again? -
Many people are keeping quiet, including MPs, NMPs, news media, NGOs, scholars working in various ministries about our citizens' unemployment and high costs and other problems.
The economy has not yet re-structured to a value-adding high-technology model capable of competing successfully with other Asian tigers or Finland or Switzerland.
If there is anything that can be done about our moribund econmic performance (for now, it is being justified by half-truths from the media as doing well), it will be in my opinion through lowering our increasingly worsened high costs e.g. Utility fee increases (creating paranoid fears about water and oil), HDB (via creative accounting) double-charge on lands and LTA's triple charges on vehicle excise/COE/ERP etc. (creating paranoid fear created about road congestion)
We can start putting up online petitions at : petitiononline.com and ask for changes with specific recommendations discussed and agreed here and at other forums.
If we don't do anything, in our society, no one will do anything for us citizens.
If the leaders try to stonewall suggestions and there is no results and problems remain unsolved, we can start more online petitions to ask for reserves to be used in a way that benefit in lowering costs or ask for changes of key-personnel e.g. Cabinet, Ministries, GIC and Temasek.
We as citizens can do something and can make the difference but we should have common goals and understanding how to present them !! -
robertteh:
you should extend this petition to include medical charges at polyclinics and hospitals. we are told time and again that medicines and medical charges are subsidised but i have i real doubts about all these after having had experienced that some of these charges are actually inflated. Now, i get my medicines from across the causeway and its so much cheaper and better since i am a "regular" i get it sent to my house and its still cheaper than if i get from the polyclinics / hospitals.