Why American people are behind their government?
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posted at www.findsingapore.net/forum
America has been a great country where the people support the government at every turn of crisis because its government has a tradition of respecting its people's views and caring for its people.
szhcornan73 wrote:
In Bush's State of the Union Address, "If we ensure that America's children succeed in life, they will ensure that America succeeds in the world."
Whether any of you like Bush or not, hope our sg gov heard this. Invest in education of Singaporean, SG GOV should not continue raising the burden of it's citizen on education cost. Don't fall on deaf ears.
By the way, MIW are you the copycat on solution to health care cost woes? laugh or the Americans are the copycat?
Just compare what the American government has done over the last 40 years for its people it is not difficult to see why they are behind their government. It is not difficult to understand why Singaporeans are a bit of switch-off and generally unhappy with its government.
But the people are always blamed as whiners or rude. What cause these behavior? I thought among so many scholars some would come out to speak out against the uncaring and disaffective policies and corrections made but none of them have spoken up so far.
The only people who will look after the people will be the people themselves as seen in the NKF saga. Even after horrendous wrong doings were disclosed of the NKF board and its ex-CEO, it looks like the government is not going to listen to people's problems and soon close the chapter with some utterances uncaring denials or justifications like "there was no legal wrongs committed" and "case closed" and "let's move on". -
heh heh heh... you should go find out what the GOP is doing to the country.. find out the scary truth before you say such things
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The fact remains that the American government has given its people true freedom of expressions and political participation needed to build a great country.Originally posted by the Bear:heh heh heh... you should go find out what the GOP is doing to the country.. find out the scary truth before you say such things
As posted under the "20 major policy errors" the government has been very stubborn and arrogant in not listening to people's feedbacks on high costs and wrong policies which cause our people's struggles to meet ends meet.
If our government wants the full support of its people,(other than through GRC) it should emulate the American government in fighting for their causes and grant them freedoms and leeways as expressed in NKF feedbacks. It should admit its mistakes of its many past policies as posted causing disaffection and dividing the people.
If it still is unheeding of the people's causes it is for sure the people will remain switched off and not willing to make changes of their past attitude toward the government. There is a common saying" "You reap what you sow".
It should let go of its past paranoid control freak mentality and encourage citizens to come forward with their own political views and increase their fullest participation. -
every country has its pros and cons. just wondering, have you been to america to see what the country is like?
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The USA is a mix pot of colorful soup, where bureaucracy and red tapes are mixed with opportunities, where paradoxes will result in surprises.Originally posted by vito_corleone:every country has its pros and cons. just wondering, have you been to america to see what the country is like?
It has its looney personalities - some of whom are artistic, while others are violent.
It puts the INDIVIDUAL before the Community, as it is those INDIVIDUALS that make up the Community.
The philosophy is simple - firstly the Community embraces the Individual's Freedom and Rights, and in turn the Individual embraces the Community that guarantees his Freedom and his Rights.
ABSOLUTE Freedom may not exist in its totality, but it comes quite close in the USA - with or without the shared responsibility by those who prefer to abuse it.
The list goes on, but more often than not, it comes out surprisingly positive, which explains the resillience of the USA to overcome each wave of financial, political and natural catastrophe throughout its history. -
Well, US democracy and freedom is not well nowadays..
people can be arrested for wearing "Give Peace a Chance" and " 2,245 dead -How many more ?" T-shirts in public places for assumption for protesting.
You can be arrested for not carrying an ID.
You can disappear to some cell without trial indefinately innocent.or not -- doesn't matter nobody knows.
You can be arrested for protesting infront of white house.
Not to mentioned .. likelyhood of being shot by cop for minor offences.
Never in US history before the present administration was it got this bad. -
I couldn't have said it better...Originally posted by Atobe:The USA is a mix pot of colorful soup, where bureaucracy and red tapes are mixed with opportunities, where paradoxes will result in surprises.
It has its looney personalities - some of whom are artistic, while others are violent.
It puts the INDIVIDUAL before the Community, as it is those INDIVIDUALS that make up the Community.
The philosophy is simple - firstly the Community embraces the Individual's Freedom and Rights, and in turn the Individual embraces the Community that guarantees his Freedom and his Rights.
ABSOLUTE Freedom may not exist in its totality, but it comes quite close in the USA - with or without the shared responsibility by those who prefer to abuse it.
The list goes on, but more often than not, it comes out surprisingly positive, which explains the resillience of the USA to overcome each wave of financial, political and natural catastrophe throughout its history.
The forumites here who actively engage in US bashing have either never set foot in the US, or have only visited the country whilst on vacation; their views and opinions of US society and culture are almost entirely based on what they see and hear through an oftentimes distorted (and in Singapore's case, a government-controlled) media.
To a certain extent, these anti-US sentiments are understandable. Those who have spent most of their lives in a tightly regulated society like Singapore might not have had the opportunity to sample the greater liberties of life in other countries, and one cannot appreciate what one has not experienced.
The US is by no means a perfect society, but it does get enough things right that people still flock here in droves to establish new lives as immigrants. -
I believe robertteh has a point; THERE IS freedom of speech in USA, and it's people DO HAVE their RIGHTS. We totally lack these two elements.
Mr Bush listens to his people, while we can only listen to our almighty government.
Study so hard, pay so much for education, graduate from UNI to find that jobs are snatched away by our government's favored FT or that for simple reason that locals are expensive to hire due to HIGH LIVING COSTS!!!!
Such striking contrasts. -
i wouldn't go as far as saying there's a total lack bro .... but yes, we can certainly improve, though you have to always keep in mind that we can never ever have the kind of absolute freedom of speech enjoyed by other liberal democracies, simply because of our geo-political constraints, I guess we can always expect the OB markers for race and religion to be there always ... in any case, I think this total freedom of speech is something of an illusion, for a lot of liberal democracies, freedom of speech is often tempered by political correctness and self-censorship, even if people forgot the LA race riots as distant history, one should perhaps remember the more recent one in ohio ? ... and I shall not go into the rightist hate sites you can always google online.Originally posted by ShutterBug:I believe robertteh has a point; THERE IS freedom of speech in USA, and it's people DO HAVE their RIGHTS. We totally lack these two elements.
Mr Bush listens to his people, while we can only listen to our almighty government.
Study so hard, pay so much for education, graduate from UNI to find that jobs are snatched away by our government's favored FT or that for simple reason that locals are expensive to hire due to HIGH LIVING COSTS!!!!
Such striking contrasts.
that, i suppose, is something we can all agree on, the challenge for Singaporeans, is, therefore, to distil the real and legitimate OB markers, from the ones used as a political tool. Here's a challenge for everyone to think of: how to maintain a proportionate representive of minorities in parliament without having to resort to GRCs ? ... from the ramblings I see during the last presidential election in Singapore, race is still very much an emotional, and non-rational issue in Singapore. Solve this problem, and there won't be any legitimate reasons for the ruling party to redefine electoral boundaries at whim, and we can move towards a fixed set of rules, based on population make up, to drawn up electoral boundaries.
As to the second point, well, do you imagine for a moment that this is not the case overseas ? ... we would the outsiders, the job snatchers to others when we leave for greener pastures, no ? this is just how the world functions today, talents and labour are fluid, they'll move to where the jobs are. And frankly, while I can't really say much about the competition in Singapore (not yet, perhaps), I can assure you, that the competition in the professions is definitely a lot stiffer overseas, for you are not just fighting against people mainly from south and east asia, but against people from all over the world ! (of course, you can choose to be a night shift janitor, like the ex-Singaporean chap I met in my school, and still drive a decent Honda to work, but that's each person's life choice, and I don't know how long such a situation would last in anycase)... just as MG said, the US is (still) a very attractive place, and yes, it still attract hoardes of migrants year after year ... My point; you are not alone in wanting to be there, you won't be the only one fighting for the same american dream. In this new era, where borders and talents are fluid, sooner or later, everyone would have to compete against the whole world, no matter where you are.
I'm not in the US, but north of the border, and, some cynic would say, that's the second choice, the plan B, for a lot of people who can't make it in the US, but even here, the competition frightens me sometimes. Singapore is a small pond after all, and if you feel squeezed by the competition and think you can exchange this small pond for the ocean, I think there may be a few surprises in store ... -
Walao, I talk about a simple need to earn a living and you bring down heaven and earth. So you saying that you can accept low salary and survive in Singapore??Originally posted by Fatum:i wouldn't go as far as saying there's a total lack bro .... but yes, we can certainly improve, though you have to always keep in mind that we can never ever have the kind of absolute freedom of speech enjoyed by other liberal democracies, simply because of our geo-political constraints, I guess we can always expect the OB markers for race and religion to be there always ... in any case, I think this total freedom of speech is something of an illusion, for a lot of liberal democracies, freedom of speech is often tempered by political correctness and self-censorship, even if people forgot the LA race riots as distant history, one should perhaps remember the more recent one in ohio ? ... and I shall not go into the rightist hate sites you can always google online.
that, i suppose, is something we can all agree on, the challenge for Singaporeans, is, therefore, to distil the real and legitimate OB markers, from the ones used as a political tool. Here's a challenge for everyone to think of: how to maintain a proportionate representive of minorities in parliament without having to resort to GRCs ? ... from the ramblings I see during the last presidential election in Singapore, race is still very much an emotional, and non-rational issue in Singapore. Solve this problem, and there won't be any legitimate reasons for the ruling party to redefine electoral boundaries at whim, and we can move towards a fixed set of rules, based on population make up, to drawn up electoral boundaries.
As to the second point, well, do you imagine for a moment that this is not the case overseas ? ... we would the outsiders, the job snatchers to others when we leave for greener pastures, no ? this is just how the world functions today, talents and labour are fluid, they'll move to where the jobs are. And frankly, while I can't really say much about the competition in Singapore (not yet, perhaps), I can assure you, that the competition in the professions is definitely a lot stiffer overseas, for you are not just fighting against people mainly from south and east asia, but against people from all over the world ! (of course, you can choose to be a night shift janitor, like the ex-Singaporean chap I met in my school, and still drive a decent Honda to work, but that's each person's life choice, and I don't know how long such a situation would last in anycase)... just as MG said, the US is (still) a very attractive place, and yes, it still attract hoardes of migrants year after year ... My point; you are not alone in wanting to be there, you won't be the only one fighting for the same american dream. In this new era, where borders and talents are fluid, sooner or later, everyone would have to compete against the whole world, no matter where you are.
I'm not in the US, but north of the border, and, some cynic would say, that's the second choice, the plan B, for a lot of people who can't make it in the US, but even here, the competition frightens me sometimes. Singapore is a small pond after all, and if you feel squeezed by the competition and think you can exchange this small pond for the ocean, I think there may be a few surprises in store ...
OB markers a meant for trouble-makers. For those who are peace-loving, there's no need for OB markers as common sense will do fine. -
hehe ... trying to turn this into a constructive discussion mah ... I really hope to see this forum turn into a place for constructive policy discussion, instead of just a rant spot for people.Originally posted by ShutterBug:Walao, I talk about a simple need to earn a living and you bring down heaven and earth. So you saying that you can accept low salary and survive in Singapore??
OB markers a meant for trouble-makers. For those who are peace-loving, there's no need for OB markers as common sense will do fine.
nope, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that competition from FTs exist all over the world, infact, I would say in Singapore, we're rather insulated from this to a certain extent because of existing employment laws, if i'm not wrong, there are quotas for FT and FWs in certain industries, like construction for example, right ? ...
I remember you're a business owner yourself bro, can you shed some light on this ? ... -
Yes, I have been to America many times not just to see its scenary but to look at business opportunities. I have driven from its north from Sacramento to the south and was none the worse for such long journey.Originally posted by vito_corleone:every country has its pros and cons. just wondering, have you been to america to see what the country is like?
For a big country, no matter what good its government has granted to the people like freedoms of expressions and choices that kind of problems some of us here mentioned like crimes in the street and drastic actions of isolated police abuses against its extreme criminals black or white, might well be manifestation of its size and diversities cultures and populations.
The problems mentioned on the social side were people-to-people problems not necessarily the deliberate policies making of the government. Over time the American government given its basic democratic freedoms will rise up to take care of such people-to-people problems which are minor discomforts or a price to be paid for freedoms.
In our case many policies of the past have been wrong and they have caused oppressions, loss of freedoms of expressions and citizens' rights, paranoid "kiasu" GRC and "NKF" mentality and high costs resulting in the majority struggling now for a living except the lucky few percent at the top of the population.
I would say that given all the oppressive actions and polcies, even if we have greenery and complete elimination of street crimes, it is not worth having such marginal benefits for the majority as lives would be degrading day by day and year by year.
In such a oppressed country, entrepreneurship, vibrancy, cultural richness, social cohesions and creative solutions to problems, upgrading of economy and intellectual space will be discounted with only a few people at the top happy but the majority of citizens suffering from the wrongs switched off.
In the medium to long run, we will be worse off as compared with the higher plain of governance adopted by the Americans as more and more wrong policies will soon do us in. Who in our situation a few years from now will be able to check on corruptions and legal and legitimate wrong doings called gerrymandering by the few in power.
I thought many of us have wider perspectives and can see the benefits of living in a country free from political oppressions and can see through greater evils of perpetuating the wrong policies favoring the FT and the elites.
If they have not and could only support a few policies that favor controls and orderliness then I see more troubles ahead. The basics must be righted before greatness can be achieved. Now the country is being badly run.
Some of us may not be seeing great harm that could be caused by wrong policies. If we carry on in this manner the country once painfully built will soon be ruined. It is new year time and time to ponder the kind of society we are building and offer some suggestions to correct past mistakes.
The government should grant political freedoms to its people and start to remove double-charging on land costs and all other other unwarranted costs on essential government services. The high petrol taxes are long ago superfluous after introductions of final measures to price road congestions in the form of COE and ERP.
For those who have lived in America and are unhappy or discomforted by their ugly social sides, let me assure them that these are but relatively minor problem for a big country granting freedom to its citizens. They should consider they are well off if the American government is not driving them off by the same policies practised here e.g. ISA, NKF, and high costs and double charging on lands and all the unwarranted fees which ultimately will stop them from leading their preferred normal lives or working. -
If Americans are behind their govt, why is Bush's ratings so low?
Why are Americans still buying SUVs?
Why is PAP getting better support from Singapoireans as compared to the Republicans?
Too much spinning from Robert Teh. Anything also want to spin. -
Who is salmanising with one-liner denial of the logics and facts salmanised ?.Originally posted by Salman:If Americans are behind their govt, why is Bush's ratings so low?
Why are Americans still buying SUVs?
Why is PAP getting better support from Singapoireans as compared to the Republicans?
Too much spinning from Robert Teh. Anything also want to spin. -
so as to backstab them better mah
it is always more difficult if u try to stab them in the front -
And you can't answer logical questions once you are confronted.Originally posted by robertteh:Who is salmanising with one-liner denial of the logics and facts salmanised ?.
And all you can do is scream me name in fear. Nothing more you can do. You have been exposed and ipponed! -
sacremento is in the southern west coast (california). north means seattle (washington), assuming that you're talking about the western usOriginally posted by robertteh:Yes, I have been to America many times not just to see its scenary but to look at business opportunities. I have driven from its north from Sacramento to the south and was none the worse for such long journey.
For a big country, no matter what good its government has granted to the people like freedoms of expressions and choices that kind of problems some of us here mentioned like crimes in the street and drastic actions of isolated police abuses against its extreme criminals black or white, might well be manifestation of its size and diversities cultures and populations.
The problems mentioned on the social side were people-to-people problems not necessarily the deliberate policies making of the government. Over time the American government given its basic democratic freedoms will rise up to take care of such people-to-people problems which are minor discomforts or a price to be paid for freedoms.
In our case many policies of the past have been wrong and they have caused oppressions, loss of freedoms of expressions and citizens' rights, paranoid "kiasu" GRC and "NKF" mentality and high costs resulting in the majority struggling now for a living except the lucky few percent at the top of the population.
I would say that given all the oppressive actions and polcies, even if we have greenery and complete elimination of street crimes, it is not worth having such marginal benefits for the majority as lives would be degrading day by day and year by year.
In such a oppressed country, entrepreneurship, vibrancy, cultural richness, social cohesions and creative solutions to problems, upgrading of economy and intellectual space will be discounted with only a few people at the top happy but the majority of citizens suffering from the wrongs switched off.
In the medium to long run, we will be worse off as compared with the higher plain of governance adopted by the Americans as more and more wrong policies will soon do us in. Who in our situation a few years from now will be able to check on corruptions and legal and legitimate wrong doings called gerrymandering by the few in power.
I thought many of us have wider perspectives and can see the benefits of living in a country free from political oppressions and can see through greater evils of perpetuating the wrong policies favoring the FT and the elites.
If they have not and could only support a few policies that favor controls and orderliness then I see more troubles ahead. The basics must be righted before greatness can be achieved. Now the country is being badly run.
Some of us may not be seeing great harm that could be caused by wrong policies. If we carry on in this manner the country once painfully built will soon be ruined. It is new year time and time to ponder the kind of society we are building and offer some suggestions to correct past mistakes.
The government should grant political freedoms to its people and start to remove double-charging on land costs and all other other unwarranted costs on essential government services. The high petrol taxes are long ago superfluous after introductions of final measures to price road congestions in the form of COE and ERP.
For those who have lived in America and are unhappy or discomforted by their ugly social sides, let me assure them that these are but relatively minor problem for a big country granting freedom to its citizens. They should consider they are well off if the American government is not driving them off by the same policies practised here e.g. ISA, NKF, and high costs and double charging on lands and all the unwarranted fees which ultimately will stop them from leading their preferred normal lives or working. the american people can change policies because they have always enjoyed and been guaranteed this right under the constitution since independence though the laws differ from state to state. can a 41 year old politically immature singapore with a politically apathetic population do the same? don't blame the government la..blame the people..they let things turn out this way and now they must face the consequences. -
I saw the state of the union address by bush on the white house site.
The country cheered and the democrats sat down. What a spectacle! From the way I see it, the Democrat party is on the decline and half dead.
They will lose in 06 and 08 for sure and will never recover for the next decade.
Anyway very good speech. Bush was relaxed and confident in what he said. -
the trend has always been: security crisis: republicans. economic crisis: democrats.
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Not true. The people who turned the economy around both times for teh past two decades were Republican presidents.Originally posted by vito_corleone:the trend has always been: security crisis: republicans. economic crisis: democrats.
I'm sorry to say this but Clinton left no legacy except the Monica scandal. You just can't associate any big achivements due to his policies like Reagan and very soon GW Bush Jr. The Democrats are so disapointing in office, its embarassing. -
Disagree - heard of the patriot act lately? Freedom of speech my arse. If a muslim guy says a stinkbomb in USA - they are going to jump on him pronto even if he is just releasing a stinkbomb as a prank on his friendsOriginally posted by robertteh:The fact remains that the American government has given its people true freedom of expressions and political participation needed to build a great country.
As posted under the "20 major policy errors" the government has been very stubborn and arrogant in not listening to people's feedbacks on high costs and wrong policies which cause our people's struggles to meet ends meet.
If our government wants the full support of its people,(other than through GRC) it should emulate the American government in fighting for their causes and grant them freedoms and leeways as expressed in NKF feedbacks. It should admit its mistakes of its many past policies as posted causing disaffection and dividing the people.
If it still is unheeding of the people's causes it is for sure the people will remain switched off and not willing to make changes of their past attitude toward the government. There is a common saying" "You reap what you sow".
It should let go of its past paranoid control freak mentality and encourage citizens to come forward with their own political views and increase their fullest participation.
The only reason why americans are soooo behind their government is because of the media and pride of a superpower nation and a lack of knowledge about the world outside of USA. If you notice - when they have a trial like OJ simpsons- they call it the trial of the century where "the whole world is watching". Oh Puuuuleeease ...like I give a damn . USA is their world. Anything happens to USA - it is happening to the world in their perspective even if China doesn't give an arse fart about it.
USA is a capitalistic nation - the ones who have money talk the loudest and hold the power - Singapore has already caught up in that aspect - so no thanks -
are you sure you got your facts right?Originally posted by Salman:Not true. The people who turned the economy around both times for teh past two decades were Republican presidents.
I'm sorry to say this but Clinton left no legacy except the Monica scandal. You just can't associate any big achivements due to his policies like Reagan and very soon GW Bush Jr. The Democrats are so disapointing in office, its embarassing. -
Originally posted by Salman:
Four sentences of "NO BRAINER, ONE-LINERS" - remarkable achievement coming from you after three day absences that you claim will be a week away.
If Americans are behind their govt, why is Bush's ratings so low?
Why are Americans still buying SUVs?
Why is PAP getting better support from Singapoireans as compared to the Republicans?
Too much spinning from Robert Teh. Anything also want to spin.
Can you understand the difference between 'behind their govt' and being 'behind Bush' ? .
What has American's purchasing SUVs any relationship to supporting the Government ? . This is simply dumb .
Are they going to drive the SUV across the Atlantic or the Pacific ? .
The PAP is fortunate that it only has a small city-state to govern, and is able to bully the citizens with a string of legislations to cow the human spirit - so as to DE-POLITICIZE the Singapore Citizens.
If the Singaporean Community embrace the INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS to an ACTIVE Political Life, can we expect the PAP to have the same windfall number of walk-over constituencies, or even acceptance to a lop-sided GRC Election boundary that guarantee the PAP victory at every Elections ?Originally posted by Salman:
Have you even attempt to understand the postings in this Forum before you shoot your "NO BRAINER - ONE-LINERS" ? .
And you can't answer logical questions once you are confronted.
And all you can do is scream me name in fear. Nothing more you can do. You have been exposed and ipponed!
Can you even understand the concept of LOGIC - even if we do not expect any iota of hope in your logical process ? .
Your pathetic attempt with the "whiner" label is only a sad reflection of your own 'whining' position of others who are able to see the Emperor's nakedness - while you prefer to be simply DUMB
. Originally posted by Salman:
You probably have been "Bushwacked" by Bush's State of the Union address, and can anyone believe your ability to understand anything about the DEPTH of US POLITICS, when you know peanuts about Singapore's ? .
I saw the state of the union address by bush on the white house site.
The country cheered and the democrats sat down. What a spectacle! From the way I see it, the Democrat party is on the decline and half dead.
They will lose in 06 and 08 for sure and will never recover for the next decade.
Anyway very good speech. Bush was relaxed and confident in what he said.
The shoes of the 'white man' is certainly a weeee bit too big for your size .
With your kind of closed mind, can we even allow you the opportunity of fair comment in the LIBERAL ARENA of US POLITICS ?Originally posted by Salman:
Shooting your brains out - with a complex bundle of "NO BRAINERS - and Mish-mashed ONE LINERS" will not do you any better .
Not true. The people who turned the economy around both times for teh past two decades were Republican presidents.
I'm sorry to say this but Clinton left no legacy except the Monica scandal. You just can't associate any big achivements due to his policies like Reagan and very soon GW Bush Jr. The Democrats are so disapointing in office, its embarassing.
It was found that during the period from 1950 to 2001 - when the US Presidency and Administrations were in the hands of DEMOCRATS:
The World ranking in GDP ranked the USA at 3.8 under the Democrats, compared to 7.2 under Republican rule.
World ranking of Real Disposable Income rank the USA at 5.0 under Democrats compared to 6.0 under Republican.
Employment ranked 4.6 under Democrats, compared to 6.4 under Republicans.
The USA Deficit Reduction ranked the country as 4.2 under the Democrats and 6.38 under the Republicans.
Real Disposable Personal Income GROWTH per Year was 3.65% under the Democrats, compared to 3.08% under the Republicans.
Unemployment fom 1962 to 2001 revealed the jobless rate at 5.1% under Democrat Presidents, and 6.75% under Rupublicans.
GDP growth - from 1962 to 2001, revealed 3.9% under Democratic Rule, and 2.9% under the Republicans.
Percentage Growth in Total Federal Spending under Democrat Presidents revealed 6.96% and 7.57% under Republican Presidents.
Yearly Budget Deficit - 1962 to 2001 was US$36billion under Democrat Presidents; and US$190 billion under Republicans.
With your shallow thinking, can you believe your own statement that the Republicans has done better than Democrats in governing Singapore ? .
Read:
DEMOCRATS vs REPUBLICANS - on the issue of the US Economy. -
Hi, I am generally being nosy down here.
Mr Robert, do the Americans generally support the government during the Vietnam war, Afghanistan war and the invasion of Iraq? I remember there were widespread protests staged by the American citizens themselves. How about Hurricane Katrina incident?
Applying the principle of individual above society is commendable. Most law offenders have the chance to repent and hopefully, contribute to society in the future. Unfortunately, the deterrent purpose of the law is somewhat sacrificed in the process-- high crime rates such as murder, rape, etc since such principles also applies to hard core criminals as well. I have watched a Discovery documentary whereby a convicted murderer was serving his sentence and he was once given a holiday. And guess what, he murdered two young children (without any motive) during his holidays. And yes, its in USA.
Maybe I am making a generalization, but human nature is degrading. The world leader, USA, promotes human rights, moral values etc all over the world yet they are the ones who invade another country despite strong international objections. While religions all around the world preach peace and inculcate positive moral values, yet armies all over the world are manufacturing and inventing deadlier weapons.
Freedom of speech? I do have reservations bout this. I can imagine CSJ making animated speeches for hours On a more serious note, how many Singaporeans are willing to spend the time to listen to lengthy speeches? Most of us are either busily making $$ or making love (encouraged by our govt!). The mindset of most Singaporeans is that earning money is the top priority than having the Western human rights. I have'nt been noticing, but I bet the attendance for the Speakers' Corner must have been disappointing.
To me, changing the mindset of the population should be achieved through education. That's why I am a fervent supporter of a complete overhaul of the current education system and encourage creativity, entrepreneurship and social awareness, etc. Our population have to be more matured in order to practise rights such as freedom of speech, etc. You can try chatting with the local university undergraduates and understand their mentality. Watching the latest movies, shopping, rushing projects and assignments are the topmost priorities rather than discuss human rights and politics. How do I know? Cuz I am one of them as well and they started to alienate me if I ever chat politics or human rights issues with them
Censored press? Pros and cons. Rightly pointed out by Atobe and Mr Robert, most Singaporeans do not have the chance to read bout the failings of Temasek Holdings, our local govt, etc. Having a totally free press does have its cons as well. How bout the debacle on England team manager Sven-Goran Eriksson? It just shows that a free press is profit-oriented and it prefers to over-sensationalize trivial issues regarding big-shots and celebrities.
That doesn't mean I am a PAP supporter. Far from it. In fact, I know who to vote for in the incoming election-- that is, provided there are opposition candidates. Having oppositon parties in parliament can always provide some form of opposing yet constructive views to a party that hold too long in power. I do agree with most of the points mentioned by Atobe and Mr Robert bout rising costs, gerrymandering, FTs issues, etc but please do not protray US like a utopia. Maybe we should wait for the results of a poll to judge whether the American people are truly behind their government or not.
As I say, I am just being nosy And now back to hit the textbooks! Feel free to reply but hopefully no salmanization pls! -
The US Citizens actually supported the Vietnam War in the 1960s until the war stretched on with too high a toll due to the political failure to understand the use of the military to win a decisive war, and allowed the Vietnamese to stretch the manpower resources for too long and wear down the will of the Americans to "sue for peace".Originally posted by Erwin_Rommel:Hi, I am generally being nosy down here.
Mr Robert, do the Americans generally support the government during the Vietnam war, Afghanistan war and the invasion of Iraq? I remember there were widespread protests staged by the American citizens themselves. How about Hurricane Katrina incident?
The present wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are two different wars fought for different reasons when comparison is made with each wars, and that of the Vietnam War.
Afghanistan continue to receive firm positive support from the US Citizenry in its continued hunt for Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden - to settle scores for the attack to the Twin Towers of the New York World Trade Centre.
Iraq war had received the support of the US Citizens despite the doubts and questions concerning the WMD issues touted by the first Bush Adminnistration; and Bush continued to enter the Second Term despite the Iraq War.
In any case, have you missed the "heart beat" of this thread in that the US Citizens will have at least the COLLECTIVE INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS to launch a protest - physical or verbal - towards the policies of a Government which they have elected and gone astray.
Can the Singapore Citizens ever dreamed of protesting in any form ?:
Do not let "one bad apple, spoil the entire barrel" is a common sense approach to such a situation.
Applying the principle of individual above society is commendable. Most law offenders have the chance to repent and hopefully, contribute to society in the future. Unfortunately, the deterrent purpose of the law is somewhat sacrificed in the process-- high crime rates such as murder, rape, etc since such principles also applies to hard core criminals as well. I have watched a Discovery documentary whereby a convicted murderer was serving his sentence and he was once given a holiday. And guess what, he murdered two young children (without any motive) during his holidays. And yes, its in USA.
In which society can we claim to be perfect ?
Even in the very forgiving and hospitable Thai society of devout Buddhists, we see two deviant Thai fishermen raping and murdering an innocent Irish girl holidaying in Thailand.
Should we condemn Thailand, its society, its culture, it national credo, or its religion ?
At least, in the USA they do not sentence its Citizen to jail and 3 strokes of the cane (if you are below 50 years old) for a minor offense of renting a room or a house to an illegal immigrant.:
You are generalizing to a certain extent, but not too far from the truth.
Maybe I am making a generalization, but human nature is degrading. The world leader, USA, promotes human rights, moral values etc all over the world yet they are the ones who invade another country despite strong international objections. While religions all around the world preach peace and inculcate positive moral values, yet armies all over the world are manufacturing and inventing deadlier weapons.
The world of the "big fish eat small fish, and small fish eat shrimps" is a real world.
In any case, right or wrong, should the World stand silently on the sideline while Saddam Hussein rape and kill his citizens, much as Idi Amin had done to his Ugandan citizens - eating their brains and heart as well ?:
With FREEDOM - of speech, of the press, of gathering, of political participation, of political discourse - one has to accept the total pot of soup in any form.
Freedom of speech? I do have reservations bout this. I can imagine CSJ making animated speeches for hours On a more serious note, how many Singaporeans are willing to spend the time to listen to lengthy speeches? Most of us are either busily making $$ or making love (encouraged by our govt!). The mindset of most Singaporeans is that earning money is the top priority than having the Western human rights. I have'nt been noticing, but I bet the attendance for the Speakers' Corner must have been disappointing.
It also comes with the FREEDOM OF CHOICE - to walk away and not listen to the antics of anyone or any event whom you choose not to pay attention to.
Can this be done in the present Singapore system, if you decline to attend an important event involving some big wig from the Ruling Party - will retribution come to you in some other form if you reject the invitation ?
The problem with the Speakers' Corner is that of the authority closely policing the speakers and the contents of the speeches to be made.
Is there any FREEDOM to be spontaneous at Speakers' Corner ?:
Singapore has been in the making for FORTY YEARS - and we are supposed to have achieved FIRST WORLD status as observed by MM LKY, yet the political minds of the Ruling Elite is that of a Third World political culture of "kiasuism" - with all the gerrymandering of election boundaries, fear of losing even a single seat to the Opposition, overkill even to an HONEST Opposition Manifesto.
To me, changing the mindset of the population should be achieved through education. That's why I am a fervent supporter of a complete overhaul of the current education system and encourage creativity, entrepreneurship and social awareness, etc. Our population have to be more matured in order to practise rights such as freedom of speech, etc. You can try chatting with the local university undergraduates and understand their mentality. Watching the latest movies, shopping, rushing projects and assignments are the topmost priorities rather than discuss human rights and politics. How do I know? Cuz I am one of them as well and they started to alienate me if I ever chat politics or human rights issues with them