Jobless Rate Is Too Low, Only 2.5%
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In which field ?Originally posted by dragg:i guess i am too picky too.
i am 27 months without job already.
but i only have ITC and a diploma, no degree or masters.
precision maching can?
can you operate CNC machine?
44 hours per week, can you read drawing and start work immediaitely?
salary S$2050.oo enough? -
manufacturing can't be our long term solution as we can't provide low wages worker for investor.Originally posted by robertteh:The new chief of EDB should learn from the past mistakes and make quick and effective decisions:
(1) Identify all the new value-adding technology start-ups we want
(2) Holistically apply total solutions like the Taiwanese and Koreans have done to prepare a group of technology passionate students to graduate in new technology courses and draw them back to lead or support new technolocy start-ups to create new jobs within certain targets every year.
(3) Ride on all our strategic resources i.e. empty lands, empty factories and idle surpluses to get our highly educated unemployed, middle-executives retrenched from the technology companies of the past years and get them to support and man these new technology companies and start new ventures.
Previously there were too much hypes on scholars and giving them jobs ..at scholar salaries and at the end none of them are creating jobs or making changes to our upgrading to new value-adding economy.
The past economic model was too theoretical based on some assumptions that by spending monies on buildings or infrastructure constructions we will somehow solve unemployment problems but this old model did not work during the last two recessions.
Now there should be new directions and new practical broad-based education to ride the upcoming third-wave technologies. Less on assumptions and academic and more on practical application of knowledge at all level and new technologies which work.
Computer-related manufacturings and software developments and hand=phone upgrades are all areas we can tap on since we have many educated graduates in these fields from the past who may be now unemployed and staying at home to look after children.
So there should be Sun Sze Art of War ministers to lead and create holistic start-ups from A to Z to bring out these industires as what Taiwan did in the early 1970s to start up their computer industries.
Problem is: our ministers may be uninformed or lacking passion in such areas. So at the end we may be unable to move from here to upgrade our economy and we will have to keep giving some excuses about lack of results or our market being too small etc in such areas.
education sadly to say no matter where you go, the thing we learn are theorectical and those practical thing are no longer in used in industry. It is there for us to learn the basic so that we can adapt more easily when we go out to work. if really want to learn real practical things, you will be looking at master and phd by research level of education.
only at that level, they are able to research on new technology as most of the time the university will be doing joint project research with those big technology companies.
and for goodness sake stop mentioning our surplus for they are meant to be idle and use when in serious troubles. they are the insurance for our future generation if anything happen to singapore. if whenever we have surplus and we use it, we will be deep shit man. Better to have a goverment that love to save then a goverment that keep spending without keeping a good amount of money for emergency use.
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What kind of small thing do local often quit n jumpred to other work?Originally posted by Salman:Then no choice, you have to employ them.
But Singaporeans do possess many skills in IT, not the top level ones though because we are basically users, not developers and we don't like to get our hands dirty for too long. We also tend to job hop a lot over small things. -
our precision engineering sector still in great demandOriginally posted by strikefreedom:manufacturing can't be our long term solution as we can't provide low wages worker for investor.
education sadly to say no matter where you go, the thing we learn are theorectical and those practical thing are no longer in used in industry. It is there for us to learn the basic so that we can adapt more easily when we go out to work. if really want to learn real practical things, you will be looking at master and phd by research level of education.
only at that level, they are able to research on new technology as most of the time the university will be doing joint project research with those big technology companies.
and for goodness sake stop mentioning our surplus for they are meant to be idle and use when in serious troubles. they are the insurance for our future generation if anything happen to singapore. if whenever we have surplus and we use it, we will be deep shit man. Better to have a goverment that love to save then a goverment that keep spending without keeping a good amount of money for emergency use.
many company that had venture oversea, crying for help these few day
some engineering shop are urgently hiring new technical staff.
the labour could be cheap, but being in precision engineering sector, the enviro require constant Electricity supply, this are somoe of the strong point we have in thhis small island
that why engineering education is very important.
the problem are mainly our people cannot work more than 46 hours per week.
just because GOV say 5 days week
we need to sing our Majulah Singapore together, we need to remind ourself, without our supporting industries, we cannot grow
we must stop our lip service that "we are united"?
we must stop to eye red if our management boss earn too much? if they do not profit share @ time, the business will go buss in no time -
Manufacturing may be out on the lower technology type due to cost factors but we do have like Finland and Switzerland different manufacturing niches we can explore.Originally posted by strikefreedom:manufacturing can't be our long term solution as we can't provide low wages worker for investor.
education sadly to say no matter where you go, the thing we learn are theorectical and those practical thing are no longer in used in industry. It is there for us to learn the basic so that we can adapt more easily when we go out to work. if really want to learn real practical things, you will be looking at master and phd by research level of education.
only at that level, they are able to research on new technology as most of the time the university will be doing joint project research with those big technology companies.
and for goodness sake stop mentioning our surplus for they are meant to be idle and use when in serious troubles. they are the insurance for our future generation if anything happen to singapore. if whenever we have surplus and we use it, we will be deep shit man. Better to have a goverment that love to save then a goverment that keep spending without keeping a good amount of money for emergency use.
Idle surpluses are now put to acquisitions of foreign companies and businesses in certain high-risk areas of which our ministers or GIC/Temasek people are not well informed to assess.
Rather than using all the surpluses to go into supporting foreign industries, citizens can benefit from such surpluses being pulled back to home to finance echnology start-ups in areas targetted.
Apart from job creation or strategic utilization of surpluses to lower our high costs of living, I fully agree with you that we should love a government who is careful not to splash them on Bangalore or Russian industrial townships...not after the Souzhou or Micropolis experience. -
precision engineering is just one of the sector, what i mean is overall manufacturing industry. there will be manufacturing industry in singapore but it won't be our main industry. if investors can get thing manufacture cheaper in oversea, then they will go oversea else they will have it done in singapore. this we cannot bang as our long term solution.Originally posted by zaxis:our precision engineering sector still in great demand
many company that had venture oversea, crying for help these few day
some engineering shop are urgently hiring new technical staff.
the labour could be cheap, but being in precision engineering sector, the enviro require constant Electricity supply, this are somoe of the strong point we have in thhis small island
that why engineering education is very important.
the problem are mainly our people cannot work more than 46 hours per week.
just because GOV say 5 days week
we need to sing our Majulah Singapore together, we need to remind ourself, without our supporting industries, we cannot grow
we must stop our lip service that "we are united"?
we must stop to eye red if our management boss earn too much? if they do not profit share @ time, the business will go buss in no time
this 46 hours 5 days work is bullsht man my sis work more then that sometime even ta bao back home to do when she work in bank
yeah engineering is one field that is always in demand just that are we willing to lower our salary expectation when finding a job. -
Originally posted by robertteh:
Citizens do benefit from such investments and most aren't high risk but obviously strategic.
Rather than using all the surpluses to go into supporting foreign industries, citizens can benefit from such surpluses being pulled back to home to finance echnology start-ups in areas targetted.
The govt does put a lot of money into technology start ups in Singapore, don't you know? Where have you been all the while? In Aussie land?
You gotta take risks in business. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Apart from job creation or strategic utilization of surpluses to lower our high costs of living, I fully agree with you that we should love a government who is careful not to splash them on Bangalore or Russian industrial townships...not after the Souzhou or Micropolis experience.[/b]
Most of the govt investments do make money. If fellas like you are in charge, I think we will lose it all. -
dun forget foreign companies like Optus are sure earn company because they already have a large market share in their own country. as for Shin Corp it is one of the biggest telecommunication company and in the long run, it will generate much more income for us. remember who don't need any form of communication?Originally posted by robertteh:Manufacturing may be out on the lower technology type due to cost factors but we do have like Finland and Switzerland different manufacturing niches we can explore.
Idle surpluses are now put to acquisitions of foreign companies and businesses in certain high-risk areas of which our ministers or GIC/Temasek people are not well informed to assess.
Rather than using all the surpluses to go into supporting foreign industries, citizens can benefit from such surpluses being pulled back to home to finance echnology start-ups in areas targetted.
Apart from job creation or strategic utilization of surpluses to lower our high costs of living, I fully agree with you that we should love a government who is careful not to splash them on Bangalore or Russian industrial townships...not after the Souzhou or Micropolis experience.
we have budget allocated for development, it may or may not be enough this i do not know, but to use surplus in such a way i think it not as viable as to invest in companies like optus and shin corp. sadly to say, you can't have a 0% unemployment rate in any countries for it not just goverment factors but also our own factors.
lower cost of living? hmm it very subjective since we are the one that want high living standard, and it come in a package and seriously speaking singapore practically import everything from oversea and with the current living standard and conditions it still not that bad loh. though can be better lah but as i say sometime we need to live with it as there is no perfect solution to everything. and using surplus in this way is really a form of waste for the money should be kept for better use rather then using it to relief our "high cost" of living.
example, australia many ppl love and wish to stay there, but their tax is very high plus no cpf. though they have good medical care which is pretty cheap, but this cheapness don't come easily. they have this thing call medisave where ppl will pay yearly, quarterly etc and if they need medical help it will be subsidse by it. but if you don't get sick then ur money is like getting forfeit so it a dual blade policy. also medicine need to buy seperately and not covered by this medisave. so there is always a price to pay for whatever policy we choose. and guess what how many time you will be seriously sick till you need to have operation etc each year?
housing in australia is also not that cheap for them cos there are still plenty of ppl renting houses from agency and this rental varies easily from A$800+ onward depending on location and size of house. so are you willing to be one of those that keep paying that much for 30 years and still can't afford a house of ur own or do you prefer to pay by loan for 30 years and at the end of the day you have a house that can call ur own?
from all these, i think we need to learn to give and take, can't always expect to have thing gone the way we want. -
Citizens do benefit from such investments and most aren't high risk but obviously strategic.
If government really put a lot of money into technology, I will be happy. The thing is, most of these jobs go to foreigners. Like the info tech security, they are not going to hire locals to monitor our traffic, instead, outsiders are hired to do it. Number one reason for it is because Singapore don't offer info tech security courses in universities. And to go into this specific field is damn hard, according to one of those in the field. He says you need to go through lots of tests, know a lot about business, and most importantly, experience in the info tech security field. You can start from scratch, like being a technician, but it is a very long way to go.
The govt does put a lot of money into technology start ups in Singapore, don't you know? Where have you been all the while? In Aussie land? -
They have what I call medicare - free hospitalisation , just pay for your outpatient drugs. If you see the gp , medicare will compensate you the standard 29 dollars and you cover the gap ( which is usually 1 to 5 dollars more) . Medicare also subsidises CXR and all essential diagnostic tests . They placed a price restriction on pharmaceuticals which USA is trying to get rid of via the free trade agreement, called the PBS scheme - the maximum you pay as a resident is 23.70 for an approved necessary drugs ( i.e. lipitor) which may cost 125 dollars in Singapore. Of course if you want diet drugs (i.e. sibutramine) then you pay full cost . 2 Inhalers , antibiotics x 2 boxes , steroids cost me 23.70 for my broncho pneumonia in the past 2 years - it is as good as it gets.Originally posted by strikefreedom:lower cost of living? hmm it very subjective since we are the one that want high living standard, and it come in a package and seriously speaking singapore practically import everything from oversea and with the current living standard and conditions it still not that bad loh. though can be better lah but as i say sometime we need to live with it as there is no perfect solution to everything. and using surplus in this way is really a form of waste for the money should be kept for better use rather then using it to relief our "high cost" of living.
example, australia many ppl love and wish to stay there, but their tax is very high plus no cpf. though they have good medical care which is pretty cheap, but this cheapness don't come easily. they have this thing call medisave where ppl will pay yearly, quarterly etc and if they need medical help it will be subsidse by it. but if you don't get sick then ur money is like getting forfeit so it a dual blade policy. also medicine need to buy seperately and not covered by this medisave. so there is always a price to pay for whatever policy we choose. and guess what how many time you will be seriously sick till you need to have operation etc each year?
housing in australia is also not that cheap for them cos there are still plenty of ppl renting houses from agency and this rental varies easily from A$800+ onward depending on location and size of house. so are you willing to be one of those that keep paying that much for 30 years and still can't afford a house of ur own or do you prefer to pay by loan for 30 years and at the end of the day you have a house that can call ur own?
from all these, i think we need to learn to give and take, can't always expect to have thing gone the way we want.
The medicare is levied in your income tax each year on an annual basis - tagged to the income you earn plus you get rebates from private health insurance which covers dental ( teeth is gooood with 2 free checkups) , optical ( paid 40 bucks for an armani specs and claim the rest hahah) , chiro/physio , medical equipment etc. Of course if you use public system only - then you have to be placed in waiting lists but if you have private healthcover - you jump the queue lah . Emergencies are always first though regardless of public or private.
Australian housing is cheap if you know how to drive. HDB only 99 years - Australia free hold for your kids, your grand kids , your great great grand kids, your great great great grand kids . You tell me which is truly your own .
If you are a resident , uni fees also cheaper if you do well in school and get into HECs system - which can be defered and taken out of your income ( when you start full time work) .
Yes taxes are high but the pay is even higher than Singapore . I earn at least twice or thrice as much here after taxes are taken out than what I earn in Singapore. So which place is better? -
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Ai yah why so bad. I think with fellas like him growth will be slow but VERY STEADY , just like blue chip stocks. Not much growth in short term but long term alot of money .Originally posted by Salman:You gotta take risks in business. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Most of the govt investments do make money. If fellas like you are in charge, I think we will lose it all.
Why pick on robertteh ? I think if he is genuine about helping the country , so be it .
Frankly I rather someone who spends on blue chip type of investments rather than to jump in and sink everybody's money in some wasted venture. -
I think Singapore prefers stock market kind of investment. Big bet big money. Lose already, recover from somewhere.Originally posted by fymk:Ai yah why so bad. I think with fellas like him growth will be slow but VERY STEADY , just like blue chip stocks. Not much growth in short term but long term alot of money .
Why pick on robertteh ? I think if he is genuine about helping the country , so be it .
Frankly I rather someone who spends on blue chip type of investments rather than to jump in and sink everybody's money in some wasted venture.
Like my teacher always say, Singapore always follow this idiom closely: li gan jian ying. Meaning the policy is very effective once implemented.
But I don't think this is good. Very short sighted I feel. In the past, we ask Singaporeans to have lesser babies so we can grow faster. Now, we are suffering of it. -
Policy is still very effective - no babies then get migrants in lor.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:I think Singapore prefers stock market kind of investment. Big bet big money. Lose already, recover from somewhere.
Like my teacher always say, Singapore always follow this idiom closely: li gan jian ying. Meaning the policy is very effective once implemented.
But I don't think this is good. Very short sighted I feel. In the past, we ask Singaporeans to have lesser babies so we can grow faster. Now, we are suffering of it.
I still like blue chips for the investment returns after a long while. Steady growth but hardly lose out much. -
We suffer. They do the same job for a lower cost. We no job. We migrate elsewhere called losers. Don't migrate suffer. jin tui liang nan.Originally posted by fymk:Policy is still very effective - no babies then get migrants in lor.
I still like blue chips for the investment returns after a long while. Steady growth but hardly lose out much.
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No No No ....government did say once that youngsters should move out of their comfort zone . So if your comfort zone is Singapore, you move out to explore mah ....Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:We suffer. They do the same job for a lower cost. We no job. We migrate elsewhere called losers. Don't migrate suffer. jin tui liang nan.
Anyways it is your life . Do you really care about being called a loser by the government? Singapore does not own my destiny , I own my destiny . -
yeah abt the medicare it may be so, but for housing, if you go to any of the rental company, there are still many people that can't afford their own housing so yeah ppl that can afford will get a free hold, but what about those that cannot afford? in singapore how many ppl don't have their own houses as compare to australia?Originally posted by fymk:They have what I call medicare - free hospitalisation , just pay for your outpatient drugs. If you see the gp , medicare will compensate you the standard 29 dollars and you cover the gap ( which is usually 1 to 5 dollars more) . Medicare also subsidises CXR and all essential diagnostic tests . They placed a price restriction on pharmaceuticals which USA is trying to get rid of via the free trade agreement, called the PBS scheme - the maximum you pay as a resident is 23.70 for an approved necessary drugs ( i.e. lipitor) which may cost 125 dollars in Singapore. Of course if you want diet drugs (i.e. sibutramine) then you pay full cost . 2 Inhalers , antibiotics x 2 boxes , steroids cost me 23.70 for my broncho pneumonia in the past 2 years - it is as good as it gets.
The medicare is levied in your income tax each year on an annual basis - tagged to the income you earn plus you get rebates from private health insurance which covers dental ( teeth is gooood with 2 free checkups) , optical ( paid 40 bucks for an armani specs and claim the rest hahah) , chiro/physio , medical equipment etc. Of course if you use public system only - then you have to be placed in waiting lists but if you have private healthcover - you jump the queue lah . Emergencies are always first though regardless of public or private.
Australian housing is cheap if you know how to drive. HDB only 99 years - Australia free hold for your kids, your grand kids , your great great grand kids, your great great great grand kids . You tell me which is truly your own .
If you are a resident , uni fees also cheaper if you do well in school and get into HECs system - which can be defered and taken out of your income ( when you start full time work) .
Yes taxes are high but the pay is even higher than Singapore . I earn at least twice or thrice as much here after taxes are taken out than what I earn in Singapore. So which place is better?
as for the uni fees, i have friends that are PR and grumble when they have to pay the fees back on top of the tax and some of them are struggling with such a huge chunk of paycheck going into payment. also most of them went back to their countries after study as they can't afford such a high repayment.
as long as you are a citizen or pr you are entitled to use HECS to defer the fees until you start work and not when you are doing well.
no doubt you get to defer, but you don't get subsidize like in SIngapore, so the good thing is we are pretty heavy subsidize but need to pay on the spot, while australia you don't get that but you get to pay when you started off. so trade off is do you want to be heavily in debts before you even start working? either way there are pros and cons to it.
tax are high, you still earn more then what you get in singapore, but think of those that do not have a degree, they don't always earn enough and don't forget in australia they always have strike to ask for increase in pay when they already have a minimun wages system in hand. and this minimum are already higher as compare to most countries.
good example is my uni lecturers do go on strike organised by unions for requesting more wages during the peak period of uni.
finally, the things in australia is expensive too, like eletronics good, computer etc are way much more expensive then other countries. the only cheap thing perhap is the car which i really envy of the price that they are paying. but wel in australia you can't live without one like in singapore.
anyway as i said before there is no perfect country to live in, it all depend on what is our piority in life and if ppl think that money is their main piority then maybe singapore is not a place for them. each pros come with it own package of cons so there no such thing as perfect, we just have to work our way around it. -
labour intensive manufacturing is out, highly automated or high tech manufacturing will still be the engine of growth for Singapore. Partly due to our free trade policy, sea/airport, low tax, and stability.Originally posted by strikefreedom:precision engineering is just one of the sector, what i mean is overall manufacturing industry. there will be manufacturing industry in singapore but it won't be our main industry. if investors can get thing manufacture cheaper in oversea, then they will go oversea else they will have it done in singapore. this we cannot bang as our long term solution.
this 46 hours 5 days work is bullsht man my sis work more then that sometime even ta bao back home to do when she work in bank
yeah engineering is one field that is always in demand just that are we willing to lower our salary expectation when finding a job. -
I have intention to move out, but not now.Originally posted by fymk:No No No ....government did say once that youngsters should move out of their comfort zone . So if your comfort zone is Singapore, you move out to explore mah ....
Anyways it is your life . Do you really care about being called a loser by the government? Singapore does not own my destiny , I own my destiny .
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you are right but you forgot something. that is highly automated or high tech manufacturing require much lesser worker then labour intensive manufacturing which mean no matter how big the plant is, the amount of workers require will always be lesser else it won't be called automation. with less workers require, it mean less job isn't it? so manufacturing still won't be the long term solution to unemployment.Originally posted by Gazelle:labour intensive manufacturing is out, highly automated or high tech manufacturing will still be the engine of growth for Singapore. Partly due to our free trade policy, sea/airport, low tax, and stability.
also high tech automation plant don't come cheap so we can't expect big high tech automation plant to spring up in singapore every now and then. it good that we can attract investor to open more plant but it still up to them if they want to built their high tech manufacturing plant in singapore.
and my previous few post is based on overall manufacturing and not just particular area in manufacturing. but well no matter which paths that the goverment choose, there will always be pros and cons cos out there, there will always be better deals provided by others and this problems will always be face by any countries. and business decision is mainly driven by greeds for higher profit (sad but truth) and security of their investment. -
I think, no matter what the debate/argument is with regards industrial trends, there will always be unemployment rates so long as employers don't fancy hiring older workers.
By older workers I mean those who are over 35 year of age, no matter their qualifications and or experiences.
This I feel the government must do much more about quickly and effectively, because all of you who are now "young", will soon be in danger of becoming obsolete.
They say that older workers should accept jobs if there are any, and are expected to accept lower wages because their age, doesn't this devalue them or give them a low sense of professional worth?
And if they do so, would you say that quality of life in Singapore is regarded good still?
I believe this is one of many reasons many are gradually leaving Singapore for more stability eslewhere. -
If you spend less time in this forum, i am pretty sure you could have already got a job by now.Originally posted by dragg:i guess i am too picky too.
i am 27 months without job already.
but i only have ITC and a diploma, no degree or masters. 
Hey dude, 25,000 posting since May 2005??? 
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I guesss the grass on the other side is always greener and oppourtunites are better. If you go to a foreign country everything is new and novel,culturally usually they are also more vibrant.Originally posted by strikefreedom:anyway as i said before there is no perfect country to live in, it all depend on what is our piority in life and if ppl think that money is their main piority then maybe singapore is not a place for them. each pros come with it own package of cons so there no such thing as perfect, we just have to work our way around it.
Most of the PRCs i met overseas still have strong attachement to their country. Singaporeans are more cold hard logic oriented. Our roots to the country are weak so we analyze the best deal for us and go. -
Stability of the economy?Originally posted by ShutterBug:I think, no matter what the debate/argument is with regards industrial trends, there will always be unemployment rates so long as employers don't fancy hiring older workers.
By older workers I mean those who are over 35 year of age, no matter their qualifications and or experiences.
This I feel the government must do much more about quickly and effectively, because all of you who are now "young", will soon be in danger of becoming obsolete.
They say that older workers should accept jobs if there are any, and are expected to accept lower wages because their age, doesn't this devalue them or give them a low sense of professional worth?
And if they do so, would you say that quality of life in Singapore is regarded good still?
I believe this is one of many reasons many are gradually leaving Singapore for more stability eslewhere. -
Well, if there are more plus points than minus points, people will naturally opt to stay put. Apart from being clean and safe in Singapore, people must also be able to support themselves as they grow old - not become obsolete and devalued.Originally posted by Calvin86:I guesss the grass on the other side is always greener and oppourtunites are better. If you go to a foreign country everything is new and novel,culturally usually they are also more vibrant.
Most of the PRCs i met overseas still have strong attachement to their country. Singaporeans are more cold hard logic oriented. Our roots to the country are weak so we analyze the best deal for us and go.