WP manifesto: healthcare

• AF2005

  10 Feb 06, 12:36

  tax system in other countries are different. thats why they have dole, unemployment money and even free healthcare. But they paid much more taxes.
  
  Here, they channel it to cpf and so let us managed , but in the end we still pay just as much or even more.
  
  When we say bad failure in some european country health management, we never bother to take a look at those european country health management that are successful and first class.
  
  
• Calvin86

  10 Feb 06, 12:39

  Originally posted by AF2005:

  When we say bad failure in some european country health management, we never bother to take a look at those european country health management that are successful and first class.
  
  

  Japan also has a subsidized and quality health care.
• claudetnt

  10 Feb 06, 14:21

  AF2005:
  
  You have made a good point, our govt had prematurely dismissed
  free healthcare available in the European countries instead of studying from the more successful models and improving them for our use.
  
  i do not deny that there are abusives to free healthcare but a way must be found to help the less privilege among us. The govt tells us that medical benefits in singapore are affordable and available and special concessions are obtainable but trying getting it! The paper work and bureaucracy involved will put off anyone who is less educated. Why not issue a card to those earning less than S$1000.00 which will entitle them and their family for basic medical care – free!
  
• AF2005

  10 Feb 06, 14:50

  not just the low income. Our system favours to benefit the very rich and left the scraps of 5 cents and 10 cents to the bottom and still dare to boast that they have done a great work and please don;t complain, the 10 cents is very big for the poor.
  
  in singapore , you are value to whats your monetary ability $$$$. A middle income will be squeeze dry once he retires. The medical and daily maintenance will sure to wipe out savings once retires even for a middle class.
  
  i am afraid the future GST increases might be use as a tools to force money out of citizens. its like ask the left hand to give less but force right hand to give double.
  
  
• claudetnt

  10 Feb 06, 17:27

  AF2005:
  
  Yes, most of us will be wiped out if we are faced with a serious illness or/and operation.
• oxford mushroom

  10 Feb 06, 18:48

  Originally posted by Calvin86:

  Japan also has a subsidized and quality health care.

  Japan has a universal healthcare system funded by insurance on a co-payment scheme. The two broad categories are employee insurance and national health insurance (a third, elderly health insurance is being worked up). All citizens have to be enrolled on one of these insurance schemes.
  
  It is not cheap. If you go to hospital, you pay 20% of the medical fee from your pocket and the remainder comes from the national medical insurance. On top of that, you pay premiums for the national medical insurance, the amount varies according to your location and annual salary, up to a maximum cap of 530,000 yen per year or about S$7,329 per year. You also need to co-pay medication costs and this insurance excludes fees for normal baby delivery and injuries caused by a third party. However, you are free to go to any hospital in Japan for your treatment. The hospitals are paid a fixed fee for the services and that is capped by the government.
  
  A universal health insurance system like in Japan sounds great but when you look into it further, we see that they are suffering from escalating deficits because of an aging population. As a result, they had to raise the amount of co-payment (ie, cash up front from your pocket). Increasing premiums for all is not acceptable to the electorate and so the move will be towards increasing the co-payment amount and in keeping with our government's argument about personal responsibility. I agree there is a limit to everything but I feel that smokers and drinker should have to pay more health insurance premiums if we have a universal medical insurance plan.
  
  A universal health insurance system is in line with socialist values like having the rich pay more to support the poor but of course, this might encourage the rich to set up shop in places like Hong Kong. This may erode our economic competitiveness....are we prepared to accept that?
  
  What I think we can learn from the Japanese is the removal of all distinctions between public and private hospitals because with a universal healthcare system private hospitals will not have any customers apart from foreigners. As a result, they have bought into the national healthcare system too and accept the fixed rates prescribed by the government. The huge discrepancy in pay between doctors in the private and public sectors has resulted in a situation where two-thirds of our doctors are over-servicing just one-third of the population in the private sector.
  
• oxford mushroom

  10 Feb 06, 18:59

  Originally posted by claudetnt:

  Please do not confuse the issue. The medical board stepped in due to pricing, nothing else! If the clinic had breached any laws then they should be brought before the court, why was this not done?

  You might do better to get your facts straight. Please read the official statements at this link: http://www.sma.org.sg/sma_news/3704/letter_press.pdf
  
  The 'medical board' that you spoke of was the Singapore Medical Association (SMA), which is nothing more than a trade union of doctors. They sent letters to the doctors in questions who were members of SMA about complaints raised by other members of the trade union. I am not a member of SMA and I could have told them to go fly a kite if I had wanted to.
  
  In contrast, the Singapore Medical Council (SMC) is a statutory body and all doctors in Singapore have to be registered with them. The SMC investigates issues of ethical misconduct and has the power to censure doctors.
  
  There is no legal stipulation as to how much a doctor can charge for his services. However, there is a legal prohibition against advertising as contained in the Publicity Regulations of the Private Hospitals and Medical Clinics Act.
  
  The clinics in question withdrew their discount offer after receiving letters from their trade union on their own accord. Why should they if they were not in breach of any legal rules? You have got to ask them.
• oxford mushroom

  10 Feb 06, 19:06

  Originally posted by AF2005:

  tax system in other countries are different. thats why they have dole, unemployment money and even free healthcare. But they paid much more taxes.
  
  Here, they channel it to cpf and so let us managed , but in the end we still pay just as much or even more.
  
  When we say bad failure in some european country health management, we never bother to take a look at those european country health management that are successful and first class.
  
  

  I am not sure if all you said is fair. We do pay much less taxes than people in Europe. The Scandinavian nations have great social welfare and universal healthcare systems, but they also pay up to 60% income tax. I know that if I work in the UK, I get 'free' NHS treatment but I also pay 45% tax (income tax+ national insurance etc.), whilst my tax liability in Singapore is only 10%.
  
  At the moment a large proportion of Singaporeans do not pay any taxes at all (after discounting various tax breaks). There is an article by one of the Straits Times columnists on this matter recently. If we increase the tax burden on those who are already paying taxes, especially single professionals like myself who pay more in taxes and get comparatively little back in services (restrictions on housing, no subsidies or tax breaks for wife and children etc), we would emigrate and further reduce the number of tax payers.
  
  
• Calvin86

  10 Feb 06, 20:16

  Originally posted by oxford mushroom:

  A universal health insurance system is in line with socialist values like having the rich pay more to support the poor but of course, this might encourage the rich to set up shop in places like Hong Kong. This may erode our economic competitiveness....are we prepared to accept that?
  
  

  Yes , the rich are mobile and are free to move. Tax rate is an important factor for business but not the only factor. US has fairly high taxes but they atttract a great deal of entrepreneurs. Its about what value your country can give to the rest of the world. The same argument goes for wages. Business are free to move to the lowest wages but they do not always settle in a place with lowest wages.
  
  I remember Singapore was giving so many PR to HongKongers before 1997 but no one bothered to come. A larger amount went to Canada, a place with high tax rate instead.
  
  Rising Healthcare is not an easy problem. Most forumites ( myself included)here probably do not have enough knowledge to approach the problem. But the governments stand like " Go find a good son-in Law" or "We will only help if there are surpluses" is breeding dissatisfaction. They are telling us they have no intention of tackling the problem of high healthcare costs. If we dont have surpluses and if healthcare costs rises, thats too bad.
  
  
• claudetnt

  11 Feb 06, 20:37

  oxford mushroom:
  
  "---The 'medical board' that you spoke of was the Singapore Medical Association (SMA), which is nothing more than a trade union of doctors. They sent letters to the doctors in questions who were members of SMA about complaints raised by other members of the trade union. I am not a member of SMA and I could have told them to go fly a kite if I had wanted to. ---)
  
  Am i really that wrong in my point of views? All trade unions are controlled by the govt. in Singapore, what makes you think that the (SMA)- trade union of doctors are any different?
  
  You should know by now the reactions of most professionls in singapore when confronted by either govt related org or ministers, the majority would just retreat and comply, we need more people like you to tell them "to go fly a kite"!
• Atobe

  12 Feb 06, 05:13

  
  
  Singapore Medical Association is more like the Law Society - both being separate bodies that represent the respective Specialist Professions.
  
  Does a Trade Union conduct regular Competency Tests to confirm the qualification of the Member to continue to practise his area of specialization ?
  
  The SMA ensures that the Professional status of its Member Doctors are kept at a high standard, and ensure that the Member Doctors will receive any medical news in the fastest way possible.
  
  
• oxford mushroom

  12 Feb 06, 05:42

  Does a Trade Union conduct regular Competency Tests to confirm the qualification of the Member to continue to practise his area of specialization ?

  No...and neither does the SMA. The Specialist Accreditation Committee is the body that assesses the qualification of specialist doctors and that is under the Ministry, not SMA.
• Atobe

  12 Feb 06, 12:08

  Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
  
  No...and neither does the SMA. The Specialist Accreditation Committee is the body that assesses the qualification of specialist doctors and that is under the Ministry, not SMA.

  Neither do the Trade Unions conduct tests to certify the workers, as such accreditation is left to the Ministry of Manpower or the relevant Authorities and Employer's.
  
  However, like the Trade Unions, SMA will disburse information and material of the latest technology, development and work methods for the information of its members; and in all probability organized classes, seminars, and talks to help the respective members in their areas of specializations.
  
  
• lionnoisy

  5 Mar 06, 14:51

  read today www.zaobao.com 05.02.2006.u can read from tomorrow
  
  Sg will recognize more medical degree from current some 70 fireign U.
  But only the best.
  
  Like polyclinics outsourcing X ray diagnostic to India.Save
  money and time for patients.