Middle East muslims are too extreme.
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Yes, this was the form of Islam that was mainly spread from the Coromandel Coast in India, and out of Aden and Goa.Originally posted by claudetnt:It was common for the Muslims in (Singapore, Malaysia + Indonesia) till the 70Â’s to practice a more tolerant and compassion form of Islam. Its a fact that South ArabiaÂ’s Wahabism Influence created a more extreme form which unfortunately had penetrated some of our muslim brothers. Regrettably none of the governments in these countries, including Singapore had earlier detected South ArabiaÂ’s negative influences. The changes were so obvious and yet our leaders were blind!
Traders brought Islam to our shores, and it is very different from the austere form of Salafism and Wahabbism which, clearly has no place in a melting pot.Because they stand for exclusion. -
Originally posted by claudetnt:
In the early history of this region, the daily grind to survive required Religions to serve as a balm, while Government and Society has left the various 'Religions' very much to themselves as long as they do not create any upheaval that threaten the peace and security needed for trade to thrive.
It was common for the Muslims in (Singapore, Malaysia + Indonesia) till the 70Â’s to practice a more tolerant and compassion form of Islam. Its a fact that South ArabiaÂ’s Wahabism Influence created a more extreme form which unfortunately had penetrated some of our muslim brothers. Regrettably none of the governments in these countries, including Singapore had earlier detected South ArabiaÂ’s negative influences. The changes were so obvious and yet our leaders were blind!
In the early history of this region, Religion was not part of any socio-political movement and was never used as a strategic tool to grab a territory.
Although in the late 1970s and early 1980s, the Catholic Church in Latin America and Philippines had dabbled in their own political backyard - (which also caused concern and negative knee-jerk reactions from the Singapore Government a.k.a the Ruling Party towards some innocent social workers from the Catholic Church) ; no one imagined the complexities that Religions had - in the manner that it has revealed itself after the 9-11 spotlight was thrown on the subject of Politics in Religion.
Prior to the current focus on Islam, was anyone aware that the adoption of Islam by the locals will require the following of practices of any one of a multiple Middle-eastern tribes, or that of subsidiary religious sects ?
Islam has its own central theme that is corrupted by the various interpretation of Man to serve Man's own selfish needs and grab for power to control large population of people.
To get to the top, one need to climb a ladder - that ladder need the support of a large group of people to hold it firmly upright.
Such a large group of people are readily found in organised forms - Trade Unions and Religion.
Extremism can only happen when the person at the TOP condone and spur such beliefs and actions.
Are the Middle-eastern Muslims the only community capable to extremism ?
Can one label in a broad stroke of the brush an entire community of believers, when it is the leader on the pulpit and his followers that are creating and grabbing the headlines ? -
Atobe:
“---Are the Middle-eastern Muslims the only community capable to extremism ?
Can one label in a broad stroke of the brush an entire community of believers, when it is the leader on the pulpit and his followers that are creating and grabbing the headlines ?---”
You’re Right. However, let me remind you this topic caption is “Middle East muslims are too extreme” so I have narrowed to the Saudis in particular cos they are the biggest culprits in the Middle East mainly because of their oil monies. The Saudis have not only spread all these negative teachings to SEA countries but also to the Indian sub continent, Africa, etc hiding behind charities and madrasahs, etc.
You are honest to admit that “Islam has its own central theme that is corrupted by the various interpretation---“ But your solution of finding and getting the top to find the solution is questionable. Where / who is the top will be a never ending search and a waste of time!
The solution is much more simple. We do not need books and teachers to interpret for us. All we need to do is open our Hearts and Minds and bring out the nature within all of us and appreciate all living beings regardless of Race, Language, Religion etc. -
Originally posted by claudetnt:
If one is to look at Indonesia's experience, it population of the Malay ethnic stock are not entirely Muslim, and there is relative 'freedom' for them to enter different religions besides Islam.
Atobe:
“---Are the Middle-eastern Muslims the only community capable to extremism ?
Can one label in a broad stroke of the brush an entire community of believers, when it is the leader on the pulpit and his followers that are creating and grabbing the headlines ?---”
You’re Right. However, let me remind you this topic caption is “[b]Middle East muslims are too extreme” so I have narrowed to the Saudis in particular cos they are the biggest culprits in the Middle East mainly because of their oil monies. The Saudis have not only spread all these negative teachings to SEA countries but also to the Indian sub continent, Africa, etc hiding behind charities and madrasahs, etc.
You are honest to admit that [i]“Islam has its own central theme that is corrupted by the various interpretation---“ But your solution of finding and getting the top to find the solution is questionable. Where / who is the top will be a never ending search and a waste of time!
The solution is much more simple. We do not need books and teachers to interpret for us. All we need to do is open our Hearts and Minds and bring out the nature within all of us and appreciate all living beings regardless of Race, Language, Religion etc.
From an extract of a report by the Indonesian Islamic Political Centre :
From amongst the Indonesian Muslim community, the proportion of radical activists, agitators, and trouble makers is only a fraction of the entire Muslim followers.
Of Indonesia's population, 87.1 percent identified themselves as Muslim in 1980. This number was down from 95 percent in 1955.
The figures for 1985 and 1990 were not released by the government's Central Bureau of Statistics (BPS), suggesting a further decline that would fuel the fires of Muslim indignation over Christianization and secularization under the New Order.
Most Indonesian Muslims do not approve the insidious and violent methods preferred by these activists, agitators, and trouble-makers.
Like all fellow human beings everywhere, the Indonesians - whatever their religious leanings - will have a typical generous approach towards others, in the simple rural way with an open Heart and Minds, and will offer their best rural nature to others. -
Atobe:
"---Like all fellow human beings everywhere, the Indonesians - whatever their religious leanings - will have a typical generous approach towards others, in the simple rural way with an open Heart and Minds, and will offer their best rural nature to others. ---"
This story may interest you; it happened to me in late 80's, I was invited to dinner by my Muslim Indonesian colleague in bandung. I was introduced to his wife and 8 children and later shown around his bungalow house. At the entrance to his house and the living room, huge Arabic writings and a huge picture of the grand mosque in mecca was displayed. However, in one of his childrenÂ’s room was an altar of some Hindu gods with an oil lamp and incense burning. In the next room was another altar of Jesus and mother Mary with a burning oil lamp. I was told that he had to promise his father that he will carry on the family tradition (that is one child to be a Hindu and another child a catholic). Now, his children will have to follow suit. Although both he and his wife are staunch muslims they still honoured this strange family tradition.
If only more people are like this family this world will have less religious problems! -
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I agree it doesn't make sense at all. God does not need anyone to do His fighting for Him or to right any wrong done to Him. I am sure He is able to do that Himself. What gives anyone the right to kill scores of innocent people in His name? But then, there are lots of crazy people around who think they can score points with Him.Originally posted by free thinker:Yes... Even though i believe that it is wrong for the Danish company to provoke them by printing the cartoon and muslims around the world have the right to feel angry. But they should not react by attacking foreign missons. This suggests that the muslim religion preaches violence and not peace, love etc... Moreover, they feel that it is alright to blow themselves up among innocent people in the name of god or whatever and the printing of a mohammad is like a unforgivable sin.. Doesn't make any sense at all! Some even call for the total destruction of a nation or even race... the ironic part is that their quran tells them to be peace-loving people.. I feel that they are too extreme and should take a step back and ask themselves why are they acting like this. -
The mistaken belief that they will be rewarded in heaven with the privilege of screwing 72 virgins if they do so.Originally posted by casefan:I agree it doesn't make sense at all. God does not need anyone to do His fighting for Him or to right any wrong done to Him. I am sure He is able to do that Himself. What gives anyone the right to kill scores of innocent people in His name?
(Actually, I'd rahter they got whacked by 72 Virginians
) -
Originally posted by iveco:The mistaken belief that they will be rewarded in heaven with the privilege of screwing 72 virgins if they do so.
(Actually, I'd rahter they got whacked by 72 Virginians )
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Can anyone shed light on why 72 virgins and not some other number? Why not 100 or even 1000 virgins? And where would these virgins come from? Why would God use sex as an enticement/reward?Originally posted by iveco:The mistaken belief that they will be rewarded in heaven with the privilege of screwing 72 virgins if they do so.
(Actually, I'd rahter they got whacked by 72 Virginians )
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This thread should be lumped together with "Cartoon of Mohammad creates International Row."
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This teaching of 72 virgins for martyrs came from the hadiths or traditions of Muhamad. Just key in '72 virgins' in google and read all about it. 72 is an arbituary number I guess, no logic, just overwhelming to the imagination. Not only would these martyrs get the virgins, he gets fair skinned boys as well as a free flow of wine.Originally posted by casefan:Can anyone shed light on why 72 virgins and not some other number? Why not 100 or even 1000 virgins? And where would these virgins come from? Why would God use sex as an enticement/reward?
I think its a great idea to encourage soldiers to die for a political leader on the battle field.
Where would the virgins come from? Nobody would bother to explain cos it won't matter once the suicide bomber dies. He can't come back for a refund from the dead if its not there. Smart huh? -
no offense but isn't this virgin thing a little over-perverse?
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Its a perverse world my friend. Humans are perverse, thats why it works.
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Salman, can anyone really take you seriously at your vain attempt at being a SUPER "NO BRAINER" - and a wicked one to the core ?Original post by casefan:
Can anyone shed light on why 72 virgins and not some other number? Why not 100 or even 1000 virgins? And where would these virgins come from? Why would God use sex as an enticement/reward?
Reply by Salman:
This teaching of 72 virgins for martyrs came from the hadiths or traditions of Muhamad. Just key in '72 virgins' in google and read all about it. 72 is an arbituary number I guess, no logic, just overwhelming to the imagination. Not only would these martyrs get the virgins, he gets fair skinned boys as well as a free flow of wine.
I think its a great idea to encourage soldiers to die for a political leader on the battle field.
Where would the virgins come from? Nobody would bother to explain cos it won't matter once the suicide bomber dies. He can't come back for a refund from the dead if its not there. Smart huh? [/quote]Originally posted by Salman:
Its a perverse world my friend. Humans are perverse, thats why it works.
What is your agenda in trying to denigrate the Muslim community - in Singapore and in this Global Community ?
Is your PC only connected to www.google.com only ?
Why did you not try www.altavista.com too ?
If you have given yourself the opportunity of searching further for some other more stable and plausible views - instead of your preferred sensational and bigotted versions - perhaps we will see less of your bigotted efforts to demonise Islam and Muslims ?
[quote]
Does the Koran really promise Islamic martyrs 72 virgins ?
A couple observations. First, nonfundamentalist Muslims don't take the cosmological parts of the Koran any more literally than nonfundamentalist Christians take the biblical story of Genesis. They understand the bits about virgins and so on as metaphors for the ineffable joys of the afterlife.
Second, while dreams of celestial babes may motivate the impoverished Palestinian kids who blow themselves up on Israeli street corners, a number of the 9-11 terrorists were older and had known something of earthly delights. That these middle-class types nonetheless were suicidal fanatics is yet another indication that we've entered a scary new phase.
Now to your question. The difficulty in determining what the Koran has to say about virgins and such is establishing what the Koran says, period.
Translators vary widely in their rendering of the spare and often opaque text. For example, we find the following passage in a Web-based version of Islam's holy book (www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/index.htm): "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full- bre asted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34). Whoa, one thinks--the Kingdom of Heaven meets the Playboy Advisor! However, most other English translations, both on-line and in print, replace "full-bre*sted maidens" with some tame construction such as "companions." Inquiring further, we find that the Arabic word at issue is WakawaAAiba, which appears nowhere else in the Koran. The French, less prudish in these matters, usually render it as something like des belles aux seins arrondis, "beautiful women with round bre*sts," so I think it's pretty clear what the Prophet, or at least his stenographers, had in mind.
Nothing in the Koran specifically states that the faithful are allotted 72 virgins apiece. For this elaboration we turn to the hadith, traditional sayings traced with varying degrees of credibility to Muhammad. Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."
A little hype from the marketing department, you may say. Fine. Let's return to the Koran, Islam's font of religious authority. Even if we leave out the racy detail and make allowances for metaphor, we're obliged to admit that Islamic heaven is a pretty rockin' place, with an emphasis on sensual pleasures. The provision of virgins in indeterminate quantities is alluded to at numerous points, and you know they're not just there to fluff the pillows. (In fairness to the Prophet, the physical quality usually attributed to the houris, as they're called, is "wide lovely eyes." ) The food, service, ambience., etc, are great. You're allowed to enjoy things the Koran explicitly denies you on earth, such as alcohol, and you won't even get sick. ("Wine . . . delicious to those who drink it . . . will neither dull their senses nor they will become drunk." ) Granted, the whole thing is skewed toward the male idea of a good time, a defect by no means confined to Islam. Were Muhammad to found a religion today, I'm confident that each female arrival in heaven would be assigned a comely stud who would provide fabulous sex and in addition hang the curtain rods the first time he was asked. Granted, also, the emphasis on virgins is a little weird. (Think back on the first nights you've been party to. Was this your idea of great sex?) Still, you have to admit, heaven as Party Central sure beats the Christian idea of angels with harps.
Does this make Islamic cosmology "unsophisticated and juvenile"? Maybe. (Oh, let's not be lame about this. Of course it does.) But don't be too quick to judge. Christianity, after all, invented the idea of paradise in the first place. Looking at things from the point of view of a cynical materialist, which is the more outrageous proposition--luring the proles with the promise of eternal life, or throwing 72 virgins into the bargain?
Salman, did you dream of Sumiko and Diana - both whom you claim "sucks" - amongst the 72 virgins waiting in heaven ? .
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The world is seen to be perverse - only because a "no brainer" do not have the supreme faculty to discern "what is" from "what is not"?Originally posted by Salman:Its a perverse world my friend. Humans are perverse, thats why it works.
Should we be surprised that only a "no brainer" will find "Humans are perverse" - as if a "no brainer" is a Martian, and not part of the Human Race ? .
With all the perverse attempts by a "no brainer" to pervert a reaction from the many tolerant and enlightened Muslims - ONLY a "no brainer" will believe that his perverse efforts can work. .
Dedicated to the foremost "no brainer" :
It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950),
Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists" -
Originally posted by protonhybrid:
As I said, there can be no reconciliation. All I know is I place the sanctity of life and property above any religion. many muslims obviously don't. They spend their lives preparing for the after-life and their 72 raisins/virgins (which in any case I have it on good authority that allah is running out of).
you see danes are thinking only from their own views, and saying oh we're right, only our laws apply and muslims SHOULD do this and SHOULD NOT do that.
who decides what SHOULD and SHOULD NOT be done? surely not just one country or culture, or just the western countries? it should be from all around the globe? but if we follow your arguments, does the whole world decide it? or just the western countries's laws?
[b]like i said before, both sides went to extremes and i don't like either of their responses.
[/b]
If only the monty python team would do a movie on Islam. Oh what hilarity there will be. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
Its not the Quran you dummy, its the hadiths. Looks like you haven't been following the thread.
Does the Koran really promise Islamic martyrs 72 virgins ?
BTW the Quran has other promises and we can talk about that in another thread.A couple observations. First, nonfundamentalist Muslims don't take the cosmological parts of the Koran any more literally than nonfundamentalist Christians take the biblical story of Genesis. They understand the bits about virgins and so on as metaphors for the ineffable joys of the afterlife.
Its not from the Quran and its not cosmology.
The author of the article don't even know what you are talking about.
I think he is trying to fool people who don't know the Quran and hadiths like Atobe and Atobe bought hook line and sinker. Thats why he posted it here.Second, while dreams of celestial babes may motivate the impoverished Palestinian kids who blow themselves up on Israeli street corners, a number of the 9-11 terrorists were older and had known something of earthly delights. That these middle-class types nonetheless were suicidal fanatics is yet another indication that we've entered a scary new phase.
Mohd Atta & Osama wasn't poor. They believe in the virgins talk, don't you.
Wow! Sound explicit. My goodness.
Now to your question. The difficulty in determining what the Koran has to say about virgins and such is establishing what the Koran says, period.
Translators vary widely in their rendering of the spare and often opaque text. For example, we find the following passage in a Web-based version of Islam's holy book (www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/index.htm): "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full- bre asted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34). Whoa, one thinks--the Kingdom of Heaven meets the Playboy Advisor! However, most other English translations, both on-line and in print, replace "full-bre*sted maidens" with some tame construction such as "companions." Inquiring further, we find that the Arabic word at issue is WakawaAAiba, which appears nowhere else in the Koran. The French, less prudish in these matters, usually render it as something like des belles aux seins arrondis, "beautiful women with round bre*sts," so I think it's pretty clear what the Prophet, or at least his stenographers, had in mind.
Wah, looks like prostitution to me.
Nothing in the Koran specifically states that the faithful are allotted 72 virgins apiece. For this elaboration we turn to the hadith, traditional sayings traced with varying degrees of credibility to Muhammad. Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."
A little hype from the marketing department, you may say. Fine. Let's return to the Koran, Islam's font of religious authority. Even if we leave out the racy detail and make allowances for metaphor, we're obliged to admit that Islamic heaven is a pretty rockin' place, with an emphasis on sensual pleasures. The provision of virgins in indeterminate quantities is alluded to at numerous points, and you know they're not just there to fluff the pillows. (In fairness to the Prophet, the physical quality usually attributed to the houris, as they're called, is "wide lovely eyes." ) The food, service, ambience., etc, are great. You're allowed to enjoy things the Koran explicitly denies you on earth, such as alcohol, and you won't even get sick. ("Wine . . . delicious to those who drink it . . . will neither dull their senses nor they will become drunk." ) Granted, the whole thing is skewed toward the male idea of a good time, a defect by no means confined to Islam. Were Muhammad to found a religion today, I'm confident that each female arrival in heaven would be assigned a comely stud who would provide fabulous sex and in addition hang the curtain rods the first time he was asked. Granted, also, the emphasis on virgins is a little weird. (Think back on the first nights you've been party to. Was this your idea of great sex?) Still, you have to admit, heaven as Party Central sure beats the Christian idea of angels with harps.
But there is no mention of studs for women anywhere, you are simply assuming wildly.
So looks like the ultimate destiny of men and women is to be studs and sluts.
Sounds bad man. Real bad.
Does this make Islamic cosmology "unsophisticated and juvenile"? Maybe. (Oh, let's not be lame about this. Of course it does.) But don't be too quick to judge. Christianity, after all, invented the idea of paradise in the first place. Looking at things from the point of view of a cynical materialist, which is the more outrageous proposition--luring the proles with the promise of eternal life, or throwing 72 virgins into the bargain? -
Originally posted by Salman:
Originally posted by Atobe:
How can anyone depend on a "no brainer" to read and comprehend ?
Does the Koran really promise Islamic martyrs 72 virgins ?
Response by Salman:
Its not the Quran you dummy, its the hadiths. Looks like you haven't been following the thread.
BTW the Quran has other promises and we can talk about that in another thread.
Perhaps the "no brainer" is also having problems with eyes that continue to delude whatever remains inside the carvenous "no brainer" cranium ?
Nothing in the Koran specifically states that the faithful are allotted 72 virgins apiece.
For this elaboration we turn to the hadith, traditional sayings traced with varying degrees of credibility to Muhammad.
Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says,
"The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."
Did my post say that it was the Quran ?
The "no brainer" contiinue to delude himself, and everyone else with his conceit and arrogant bigotry.Originally posted by Atobe:
Can we believe that a "no brainer" Salman can outshine the author of the luminating piece : Does the Koran really promise Islamic martyrs 72 virgins ? ?
A couple observations. First, nonfundamentalist Muslims don't take the cosmological parts of the Koran any more literally than nonfundamentalist Christians take the biblical story of Genesis. They understand the bits about virgins and so on as metaphors for the ineffable joys of the afterlife.
Response by Salman:
Its not from the Quran and its not cosmology.
The author of the article don't even know what you are talking about.
I think he is trying to fool people who don't know the Quran and hadiths like Atobe and Atobe bought hook line and sinker. Thats why he posted it here.
All we have are claims from a "no brainer" who present nothing but twisted extracts to fit a bigotted agenda.
The smaller the mind the greater the conceit.
Aesop (620 BC - 560 BC)Originally posted by Atobe:
Virgin or not, I will defer that privilege to your expertise and preference in deluding yourself to those sweet things whom you claim "sucks".
Second, while dreams of celestial babes may motivate the impoverished Palestinian kids who blow themselves up on Israeli street corners, a number of the 9-11 terrorists were older and had known something of earthly delights. That these middle-class types nonetheless were suicidal fanatics is yet another indication that we've entered a scary new phase.
Mohd Atta & Osama wasn't poor. They believe in the virgins talk, don't you.Originally posted by Atobe:
This peice alone must have been quite revealing of the Quran.
Now to your question. The difficulty in determining what the Koran has to say about virgins and such is establishing what the Koran says, period.
Translators vary widely in their rendering of the spare and often opaque text. For example, we find the following passage in a Web-based version of Islam's holy book (www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/index.htm): "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full- bre asted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34). Whoa, one thinks--the Kingdom of Heaven meets the Playboy Advisor! However, most other English translations, both on-line and in print, replace "full-bre*sted maidens" with some tame construction such as "companions." Inquiring further, we find that the Arabic word at issue is WakawaAAiba, which appears nowhere else in the Koran. The French, less prudish in these matters, usually render it as something like des belles aux seins arrondis, "beautiful women with round bre*sts," so I think it's pretty clear what the Prophet, or at least his stenographers, had in mind.
Response by Salman:
Wow! Sound explicit. My goodness.
What have you been reading in your supposed intelligent study of the Quran with an attitude of an arrogant and bigotted "no brainer" ?
Which version the Quran did you study - the King James equivalent ?
Did you study in the atmosphere of some unregistered madrasahs and hence resulting in your skewered vews of a great religion ? . -
continuation from above:
Originally posted by Atobe:
By the reading ability of a "no brainer" - can we expect the understanding to be anything but only a "no brainer" outcome ? .
Nothing in the Koran specifically states that the faithful are allotted 72 virgins apiece. For this elaboration we turn to the hadith, traditional sayings traced with varying degrees of credibility to Muhammad. Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby."
A little hype from the marketing department, you may say. Fine. Let's return to the Koran, Islam's font of religious authority. Even if we leave out the racy detail and make allowances for metaphor, we're obliged to admit that Islamic heaven is a pretty rockin' place, with an emphasis on sensual pleasures. The provision of virgins in indeterminate quantities is alluded to at numerous points, and you know they're not just there to fluff the pillows. (In fairness to the Prophet, the physical quality usually attributed to the houris, as they're called, is "wide lovely eyes." ) The food, service, ambience., etc, are great. You're allowed to enjoy things the Koran explicitly denies you on earth, such as alcohol, and you won't even get sick. ("Wine . . . delicious to those who drink it . . . will neither dull their senses nor they will become drunk." ) Granted, the whole thing is skewed toward the male idea of a good time, a defect by no means confined to Islam. Were Muhammad to found a religion today, I'm confident that each female arrival in heaven would be assigned a comely stud who would provide fabulous sex and in addition hang the curtain rods the first time he was asked. Granted, also, the emphasis on virgins is a little weird. (Think back on the first nights you've been party to. Was this your idea of great sex?) Still, you have to admit, heaven as Party Central sure beats the Christian idea of angels with harps.
Response by Salman
Wah, looks like prostitution to me.
But there is no mention of studs for women anywhere, you are simply assuming wildly.
So looks like the ultimate destiny of men and women is to be studs and sluts.
Garbage in, and garbage out.Originally posted by Atobe:
Surprisingly the "no brainer" got floored again.
Does this make Islamic cosmology "unsophisticated and juvenile"? Maybe. (Oh, let's not be lame about this. Of course it does.) But don't be too quick to judge. Christianity, after all, invented the idea of paradise in the first place. Looking at things from the point of view of a cynical materialist, which is the more outrageous proposition--luring the proles with the promise of eternal life, or throwing 72 virgins into the bargain?
Response by Salman:
Sounds bad man. Real bad.
It could be worse, when seen with the sight of a "no brainer". . -
So you mean the virgins don't exists and those jihadhists died for lies?
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Those are LIES - you know it as much as any learned persons (unless you are merely a fraud indulging in empty boasts).Originally posted by Salman:So you mean the virgins don't exists and those jihadhists died for lies?
Those lies are similar to the lies that you have created concerning Muslims and the Islam - in the various threads that you have started to denigrate the many PEACEFUL and PASSIVE Muslims in SINGAPORE, BRUNEI, MALAYSIA, and INDONESIA and those other BILLIONS of Muslims - who remained calm throughout these very disturbing time. .
With you around, can anyone remain a virgin, when you rape the innocent with your indiscriminate strokes ? . -
So you do believe in those virgins for terrorists then. You are trapped now. You can't say they are real, you can't say they are not real because its your faith.
Who can you fool around here mat?
Your evil taquiya ain't gonna work around here. I will make you expose yourself on this very forum. -
Trapped by your crap about virgins ? .Originally posted by Salman:So you do believe in those virgins for terrorists then. You are trapped now. You can't say they are real, you can't say they are not real because its your faith.
Who can you fool around here mat?
Your evil taquiya ain't gonna work around here. I will make you expose yourself on this very forum.
How desparate your efforts to clean up the crap that you have created for yourself ? .
Can you even begin to appreciate anything about virgins with a warp mind like yours ?
Unlike you, I have better ideas with virgins than your deluded "no brainer" mind is capable of creating. .
Shall I accept your "no brainer" assessment that the abilities of sweet Sumiko and Diana "sucks" - when your ability to appreciate 'virgins' is with a warp mind believing that every Muslim is a terrorist ? .
Is it so easy to simply turn the table on me with a few "no brainer" words ? .
Did the "black crude" in your long coffee break heightened your delusion ? .
Can a "no brainer" make things happen ? .
With the impotency of an incompetent bigot, are you capable of exposing anyone with your "no brainer" ability ? .
Your useless "no brainer" attempts will only expose more of yourself then anyone else; and from an impotent personality of an incompetent "no brainer" is there anything worth looking at ? .
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It doesn't matter whether you think the 72 virgin teachings are crap.
The teachings of the virgins for martyrs is real and they are being taught to terrorists no matter how much you try to hide it. They are in the hadiths and interpreted literally by jihadists and real sexed up virgins with round bosoms.
Are all Muslims terrorists? Of course not. But people will turn terrorists if they believe in all this 'crap' as you rightly described it.