Middle East muslims are too extreme.
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There are many that keep harping on the fact that there are merely a few thousand muslims conducting anti danish activities while there are a few million muslims who are not.
Yet these few million level headed and peace loving muslims are unable to put pressure on the few thousand who misrepresent their faith? -
exactly, btw im talking abt the danish newspaper, how come u talk abt the sg government?Originally posted by Salman:If you are aware of the hole, you will know how to avoid it and won't fall into it.
Thats why we need awareness. Don't smoke screen reality and pretend its not there.
Our govt is wise enough to be aware and take precautionary measures long ago, thats why we are safe and peaceful.
if the danish newspaper had the awareness ur talking abt, they would not had publish the cartoon, and this would not have cause a uproar among the musilms. -
underachievers are always angry. always dreaming about virgins and blowing things up.Originally posted by Salman:Did you notice that they are always angry. Just look at Atobe's posts.
Once they are angry, they can then be manipulated by their leaders.
So sad. -
Watch out for the anger.Originally posted by Thailand_Hero:underachievers are always angry. always dreaming about virgins and blowing things up.
The reason why middle easterners are angry with the west is because that is what their govt feed them thru the media for decades. Their govts are corrupt dictatorships that needs to distract the populance away from their own inadequacies. Thats why they need somebody to blame for their own failures.
And when the people indulge in blaming others for their own failures rather than taking responsisbility for their own problems, they end up being poorer and poorer for it. So they keep blaming others for their problems and keep hating when others get richer.
Arabs are actually smart people but they are very poor. Its a system error man!
A friend of mine who visited Saudi Arabia told me that the people are actually very poor because the govt wants to keep them poor and illiterate so that they can be controlled and not over throw their own govt. -
Oh I see.Originally posted by RaTtY81:exactly, btw im talking abt the danish newspaper, how come u talk abt the sg government?
if the danish newspaper had the awareness ur talking abt, they would not had publish the cartoon, and this would not have cause a uproar among the musilms.
Actually the Danish cartoons didn't cause any uproar to begin with, a fanatic cleric in Denmark tried to stir trouble and riot over there but failed. so he took those cartoons and added another three inflamatory cartoons of his own, took them to the middle east countries and stired hatred among Muslims there and it exploded.
Two things to learn about all this.
1. The cartoons were simply flimsy excuses by fanatics to stir trouble on purpose. The Danish papers should not be blamed.
2. The west should not be intimidated by all these protests and threats but rather encourage open debate on this issue to expose the fanatics and educate the people. -
This is not the time for more violence or censorship, but rather peace, mercy and compassion.
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Three reasons why the millions failed.Originally posted by SilverPal:There are many that keep harping on the fact that there are merely a few thousand muslims conducting anti danish activities while there are a few million muslims who are not.
Yet these few million level headed and peace loving muslims are unable to put pressure on the few thousand who misrepresent their faith?
1. some Muslims hate these fanatics but will never dare to speak out cos they are intimidated by the fanatics. The fanatics will lose legitimacy and will track down these Muslims.
2. most Muslims will not want to speak out against fellow Muslims because there is something in islamic culture about not speaking out against another brother in front of non Muslims. This one really nails most Muslims dumb because they do not want to be labeled unislamic and they feel guilty about siding against fellow Muslims.
Notice that even though SE Asian Muslims are moderates, you will never see them speak out against Muslims elsewhere in the world no matter how rotten they are, they will rather close two eyes.
Atobe and Blurberry will fall into this category.
3. some actually sympathise the cause of the fanatics because they see things not in terms of right and wrong but the world as one of Muslims against non Muslims.
Some will not condemn with a combination of reason 2 and 3.
In the meantime, this problem of fanaticism will never be stopped with reality as it is.
Thats why LKY always say that the majority Muslims must speak out. -
Originally posted by Salman:
Judging by the character of your tone in all your postings concerning Islam and Muslims, can we believe that in the same situation you will have the back bone to stand up to right whatever that is worng ?
Three reasons why the millions failed.
1. some Muslims hate these fanatics but will never dare to speak out cos they are intimidated by the fanatics. The fanatics will lose legitimacy and will track down these Muslims.
Will you finger out those fanatics or gangsters, or secret society members in your neighborhood that impose their rule on you and your community - especially in an environment where even the Law do not exist ?
In any case, does it matter if you do or do not, as it will be hard to believe whatever a no brainer print that he is capable of, as what proof has he to offer ?
So the 'Great Hollow One' who has the ability to read and understand Arabic - in order to comprehend the various teaching in the Quran and Hadith - speaks with such authority about Islam and Muslims ?
2. most Muslims will not want to speak out against fellow Muslims because there is something in islamic culture about not speaking out against another brother in front of non Muslims. This one really nails most Muslims dumb because they do not want to be labeled unislamic and they feel guilty about siding against fellow Muslims.
Notice that even though SE Asian Muslims are moderates, you will never see them speak out against Muslims elsewhere in the world no matter how rotten they are, they will rather close two eyes.
Atobe and Blurberry will fall into this category.
Have you mixed up the requirements of Islam WITH the culture and customs of those peopel who happen to adopt Islam ?
There is a difference between the teachings of Islam, and the customs and cultures of the tribe, the community, and the society.
By your statement, are you implying that Christians have no values in that they will tell on a fellow Christians, but a Muslim will not ?
Have you considered the Sultan of Bruneir (a Mulsim Leader) prosecuting his own brother ?
Do not mix up the fear of the community towards those few - who are well armed, organised, and funded - as a sign that the community will not speak out against one from the same community.
With the US Military backing up the beginning of an Iraqi Government, even the average Iraqi citizens are coming out of the woodwork to bring forth evidence against Saddam Hussein.
Only a bigot bent on a fixxed view will insist of seeing the world as a Muslim and Non-Muslim world - have you now marginalised the other reglions and its greater number of followers ?
3. some actually sympathise the cause of the fanatics because they see things not in terms of right and wrong but the world as one of Muslims against non Muslims.
"Some" Muslims will sympathise with the cause of the fanatics - does not indicate ALL Muslims.
What is/are the cause[s] of the Fanatics - to which some of the Muslims lent their support to ?
Is it not obvious that the entire burning issues are the SEEMING injustice, hackneyed and racist policies practisd by the Western Politicians - (European, USA and UK) - that are very much in support of the Israelis and Jewish community at the expense of Middle-eastern interests of the Arab population ?
Under such circumstances, it is surprising that although some Arabs have taken up arms in a fanatical struggle against such seeming injustices, some from the majority of the Arabs merely lent moral support to their cause, while there remains also a silent number who disapprove of the methods of the fanatics.
You are so skillful in paint with your crude brush that tarnishes a wide population with your broad stroke in so many of your issues, can one really not believe that you are not as much an anti-Muslim Fanatic ?
Great "no brainer" mind at work, and surely GRAND PAPa LKY will give you a big hug for antagonising the Muslims in Singapore, without getting him stained by the dirt that you have stirred up to move our Singaporean Muslims.
Some will not condemn with a combination of reason 2 and 3.
In the meantime, this problem of fanaticism will never be stopped with reality as it is.
Thats why LKY always say that the majority Muslims must speak out.
If "this problem of fanaticism will never be stopped with reality as it is" - what is the purpose of all your posts to denigrate Islam and the Muslims as a whole in all your postings ?
From the various posts that you have made, the deliberate angle from you has been to dirty the image of Islam and Muslims:
Is it any wonder that the Moderators decided to lock up your mischevious attempts in the two following threads ?
middle eastern muslim too extreme
8 February 2006 12.06A.M.
Originally posted by Salman:
Its not just the middle easterners, Muslims in this region do exactly the same thing too.
I just heard a report that up to 10,000 Christians were murdered by fanatics for their faith in Indonesia over the last few years but these were either covered up or not widely reported.
15 February 2006 - 08.5PM
Originally posted by Salman:
This teaching of 72 virgins for martyrs came from the hadiths or traditions of Muhamad. Just key in '72 virgins' in google and read all about it. 72 is an arbituary number I guess, no logic, just overwhelming to the imagination. Not only would these martyrs get the virgins, he gets fair skinned boys as well as a free flow of wine.
I think its a great idea to encourage soldiers to die for a political leader on the battle field.
Where would the virgins come from? Nobody would bother to explain cos it won't matter once the suicide bomber dies. He can't come back for a refund from the dead if its not there. Smart huh?
Muslims assesed as threat to world piece in 60ye ols ewport
Mulsims please help out -
Hi Atobe,
Just wanted to address the converse view.
You are right in saying that many western and predominantely christian politicians and community leaders have pro jew and anti muslim policies and views. These are manifested in their various actions and decisions.
The converse is also true. Even if we disregard the "great hollow one" posts, we still cannot deny that there are many instances where we see muslim leaders taking obviously anti-christian views which manifests itself again, in decisions and even words.
A recent example that appeared on local newspapers is when a deceased former muslim who converted to hindu received an islamic last rites instead of a hindu one. That shows the lack of respect the govt had on other religions.
The more recent uproar over the pictures as published by the DANISH newspaper, which had no religious sympathies, nor official religions connections, saw the murder of a catholic priest in response.
Also, AMERICAN embassies in various countries are under attack although we know that it wasn't an american newspaper that published the pictures but a DANISH newspaper.
That shows the extent of the biasness by the muslim leaders and followers.
The fact that those MILLIONS of muslims are not even showing dissapproval of such misdirected violence by the FEW THOUSAND muslims show how deeply rooted this anti christian, anti catholic and anti american bigoted views are.
I know your first response, the americans had it coming, they were not right in invading iraq, isreal blah blah blah...
The christians and catholics are more concerned about each other than muslims. Even the former Pope told Bush Jr off about the iraq war. Yet christians and catholics around the world are being targetted by muslims who are angry at the DANISH.
How do you reconcile this point? -
Notice that this Atobe guy is really a vicious liar.
He keeps insisting that I am villifying all Muslims when I clearly said that most Muslims peaceful people and I focused my criticism against extremists.
He's trying to implicate that I am anti Muslim.
I think he is a typical extemist taquiya liar. I've seen many of these on the net. Its stupid of him to display his tail so openly and think he can get away with it. -
Originally posted by SilverPal:
This whole cartoon rage thing is a deliberate well organised attack on western culture by extremists. Don't be fooled by it.
[b]Hi Atobe,
Just wanted to address the converse view.
You are right in saying that many western and predominantely christian politicians and community leaders have pro jew and anti muslim policies and views. These are manifested in their various actions and decisions.
The converse is also true. Even if we disregard the "great hollow one" posts, we still cannot deny that there are many instances where we see muslim leaders taking obviously anti-christian views which manifests itself again, in decisions and even words.................................. -
I think you and atobe are getting to emotional over this issue.Originally posted by Salman:Notice that this Atobe guy is really a vicious liar.
He keeps insisting that I am villifying all Muslims when I clearly said that most Muslims peaceful people and I focused my criticism against extremists.
He's trying to implicate that I am anti Muslim.
I think he is a typical extemist taquiya liar. I've seen many of these on the net. Its stupid of him to display his tail so openly and think he can get away with it. -
Atobe, it is well to make the point that the acts of "fanatics", "extremists" and "terrorists" should not be bundled up with the rest of the Islamic world. However, what do you as a Muslim propose should be the world's reaction to this mounting violence committed in the name of Islam? If the rest of the Islamic community chooses to keep silent in the face of violence committed by their "black sheep", what choice do you leave others when dealing with the problem but to see the problem as one of Islam?
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Really, I am not aware that Atobe is a Muslim. However blurberry and protonhybrid made it obvious in their posting style that they are people do not consume pork and pray five times daily.Originally posted by Rexdriver:Atobe, it is well to make the point that the acts of "fanatics", "extremists" and "terrorists" should not be bundled up with the rest of the Islamic world. However, what do you as a Muslim propose should be the world's reaction to this mounting violence committed in the name of Islam? If the rest of the Islamic community chooses to keep silent in the face of violence committed by their "black sheep", what choice do you leave others when dealing with the problem but to see the problem as one of Islam? -
Sorry I was given that impression that Atobe was Muslim when I scanned through the posts. However, my point remains.
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Atobe is a Muslim. He may not be very islamic or religious though.
There lies the problem. I have seen many Muslim youths in UK who are not very islamic. They smoke, drink gamble, fornicate, rob, steal etc but when they feel that islam is insulted, they turn fanatical and violent.
Atobe is the same phenomenon. He feels he needs to defend extremism even though he may not be islamic in his lifestyle. I bet you that many of the bterrorists in Iraq are the same.
When these brainless kooks go into action, people will tend to associate all muslims with extremism. They give the rest of the muslims a bad image. -
Anyone who goes around killing people over cartoons is an infidel and god will punish him...
God is totally against sexual immorality...so wats this about giving virgins to people who blow themselves up in planes? Dont GOD have any consideration to the 'girls' who are going to be given to gratify one dead mans lust?
I think theres alot of misleading in their world...just look at indonesia...when they have problems they start killing and raping ethinic chinese...extremist to the max...
from an outside point of view...i often wonder...wat the heck has all these to do with religion? -
Hi, religious or not, that's up to atobe and his god to iron out. I'm not a very religious person too despite being a sunday school teacher and also a high profile member in various christian youth establishments.Originally posted by Salman:Atobe is a Muslim. He may not be very islamic or religious though.
There lies the problem. I have seen many Muslim youths in UK who are not very islamic. They smoke, drink gamble, fornicate, rob, steal etc but when they feel that islam is insulted, they turn fanatical and violent.
Atobe is the same phenomenon. He feels he needs to defend extremism even though he may not be islamic in his lifestyle. I bet you that many of the bterrorists in Iraq are the same.
When these brainless kooks go into action, people will tend to associate all muslims with extremism. They give the rest of the muslims a bad image.
When people talk bad about my religion, I do net declare the extermination of a race or religion, nor do I mastermind the death of hundreds.
I do not believe that its a problem of non-religious people but its more the problem of the simple minded millions of muslims that are being misled and manipulated by the few extermists thereby causing the few thousand muslims to act against islam by killing and murdering.
Perhaps ethical and responsible clerics should speak out more to teach their people what real islam is about. -
If only the muslims knew that killing and murdering won't give them their virgins...Originally posted by Thailand_Hero:Anyone who goes around killing people over cartoons is an infidel and god will punish him...
God is totally against sexual immorality...so wats this about giving virgins to people who blow themselves up in planes? Dont GOD have any consideration to the 'girls' who are going to be given to gratify one dead mans lust?
I think theres alot of misleading in their world...just look at indonesia...when they have problems they start killing and raping ethinic chinese...extremist to the max...
from an outside point of view...i often wonder...wat the heck has all these to do with religion?
These muslims are so disgruntled with their lives and jealous of the wealth of the west that they want to hit out at anyone or anything other than themselves.
In indonesia, they like attacking the chinese who are richer than them. Everytime there is anything that angers them, americans, danish, christians, the chinese population will definitely get hurt.
Even this incident where a DANISH newspaper published offensive pictures of the prophet, many muslims destroy AMERICAN embassies and kill CATHOLIC priests!
Even atobe, pyro and many other muslims partaking in the discussion here cannot answer me why do catholic priests and americans get targetted for their hatred against the danish! -
They will avoid many straight forward questions.
Thats the life they live and will one day die to regret. So sad. -
I am afraid extremism would finally cause so much pain to the rest of the world to the point where almost everyone has been affected somehow by terrorism.
In terms of economic loss, death of loved ones, nuclear armament and threat to world peace.
The end result would be a world so driven by hate against muslims(most if not all are innocent) that a war of extermination would begin.
I wish never to see that day.
Imagine sep 11, troops dying in iraq, london bombings and now killings related to cartoons...
how many lives destroyed...how many families in pain. When enough pain has been generated and tolerance has reached its peak, the result is a backlash. I fear it would no longer be a war on terror but a war for extermination.
it would become WW3. -
I wish proton would read this post and truely understand the REAL implications of terrorism.Originally posted by Thailand_Hero:I am afraid extremism would finally cause so much pain to the rest of the world to the point where almost everyone has been affected somehow by terrorism.
In terms of economic loss, death of loved ones, nuclear armament and threat to world peace.
The end result would be a world so driven by hate against muslims(most if not all are innocent) that a war of extermination would begin.
I wish never to see that day.
Imagine sep 11, troops dying in iraq, london bombings and now killings related to cartoons...
how many lives destroyed...how many families in pain. When enough pain has been generated and tolerance has reached its peak, the result is a backlash. I fear it would no longer be a war on terror but a war for extermination.
it would become WW3. -
Rightly or wrongly, Sept 11 was sufficient justification for the American people to go to war with 2 countries. It is not improbable that another major catastrophe caused by terrorists in the name of Islam might result in greater consequences.
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I remember hearing something like this from a show... Bullies only respond to strength and from now onwards, we are prepared to be much stronger towards such bullies...Originally posted by Rexdriver:Rightly or wrongly, Sept 11 was sufficient justification for the American people to go to war with 2 countries. It is not improbable that another major catastrophe caused by terrorists in the name of Islam might result in greater consequences.
For the sake of the muslims around the world, if they do not stop their fanatical friends, they might have a bigger problem than pictures of the prophet. -
The real problem is, the Americans are tough but not tough enough.
If they only dare to screw Syria, Iran and Saudi, all this terrorism sh-it will stop cos the funding will be cut.