HDB Ethnic Group Quota System - Unfair
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I'm a liberal. I like the multiculturalism that we have because of such policies. Its cool man! Harmony in diversity!
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An ethnic quota system is necessary. We must not allow the segregation of races as it exists in many western nations, the results of which are clear, based on recent events in France and the UK.
Chinese Singaporeans should be encouraged to reside in areas where there is a greater proportion of minority races and similarly, the latter should be encouraged to find housing in Chinese-predominant neighborhoods. Though painful, if we consider the bigger picture the price differential is good, so as to discourage racial segregation. -
More like Malays are finding it hard to find employment in the private sector due to their inability to write CHinese.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:My teacher say it's because Singapore is surrounded by lots of Malays. So if we are too pro-Chinese, our Malay neighbours will not be happy. It's kind of ridiculous.
THeir high presence in SPF and SCDF is due to the distrust that certain departments in SAF feel about them. -
If I'm not wrong, the system doesn't apply to a whole block of flats, i.e. there is no such thing as a whole block of flats not being eligible for a particular race permanently. I think it works this way: let say for a block with 100 units of flat, 65% would be alloted to Chinese, 20% to Malay, 10% to Indian and 5% to others. Then 10 Chinese and 2 Malay tenants shifted out. If the Malay sellers were replaced by another 2 Malay buyers, then no more Malay could buy any the flats in that block until some existing Malay tenants shift out.Originally posted by gill_hfc:As the chinese make up the majority, a block of flats marked as not being eligible for chinese buyers could see a massive drop in its market value. So why should the owner bear such a massive financial loss on his HDB flat's market value when the guy across the road with a similar size unit might be able to achieve a premium; as his block of flat does not have any maximum quota against a single ethnicity. The policy strikes me as a totally unfair system.
I think this system itself is already racist though it could be for good intentions. -
If that is so, SPF and SCDF would not have so many Malays. Both also have some highly confidential files.Originally posted by iveco:More like Malays are finding it hard to find employment in the private sector due to their inability to write CHinese.
THeir high presence in SPF and SCDF is due to the distrust that certain departments in SAF feel about them. -
Agree,the Ethnic quota system are so stupid n useless.I mean if a party in the government is capable n can make a his country economic prosperous,everyone will like the party.If a party can only bring downfall to the country's economy,then not matter what race,they will hate the party n chaos will arise!!!So it is totally useless for PAP to impose this ethnic quota system to prevent any chaotic problem arise.Originally posted by dragg:i dont understand why there is a need for such quotas.
singaporeans generally dont talk to their neighbours, even if they are of the same race.
what difference does it make then?
i wonder if they have such quotas for millionaires who live in bungalows?
By the way,i wonder who is the !diot who came out with this stupid ethnic quota system? -
Later if a chinese gal went to a block full of other race and got XXXX or what ever......no evidence can be found nor witness
Or worse got XXXX by the whole block
Just her luck -
i'd say it's racism at play. being part of the majority, you dont even see what some minorities MAY be going through.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:If that is so, SPF and SCDF would not have so many Malays. Both also have some highly confidential files.
it's an open secret that malays are not allowed to access the topmost echelons of singapore's def.force coz of security threat.
spf & scdf, pose less of a threat than singapore air force, so "less trustworthy" ppl can employ there oso. -
Salman:
“I'm a liberal. I like the multiculturalism that we have because of such policies. Its cool man! Harmony in diversity!”
Chances are youÂ’re living in a private estate not the HDB heartland and therefore not affected! The minorities are facing great difficulties cos of this quota system which is not necessary at all. We should also do away with SAP schools and the madrashas and let our people mingle more rather than have this artificial demarcations. As some others in this forum had pointed out the races are not mixing as they use to do in the 70Â’s thanks to George yeo! -
plz define "liberal", "multiculturalism" and "harmony in diversity" for me before i get started on your antimuslim rhetoric. cheers.Originally posted by Salman:I'm a liberal. I like the multiculturalism that we have because of such policies. Its cool man! Harmony in diversity!
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Liberal means we should be open minded and love one another, not preach seperatism, hate, us against them, racism, superiority of one's religion and terrorism.
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oxford mushroom:
"-An ethnic quota system is necessary. We must not allow the segregation of races as it exists in many western nations, the results of which are clear, based on recent events in France and the UK.
Chinese Singaporeans should be encouraged to reside in areas where there is a greater proportion of minority races and similarly, the latter should be encouraged to find housing in Chinese-predominant neighborhoods. Though painful, if we consider the bigger picture the price differential is good, so as to discourage racial segregation."
You must be joking!
You simply do not understand that its all these laws had altered the mindset of the majority to a certain extent. Some of our people's mind had been "rewired" by the people "up-there". The trend among many young people today is mixing mostly with their own kind; only superficially do you see the mixing of races for the cameras and politicians. At almost all dialogue sessionÂ’s ministers are always bombarded with racial issues esp among the minorities asking for some sort of assurances and guarantees that they are not sidelined. Are these hysterical people? There is a real problem here, which fortunately some of our politicians have come to realize, but due to some reasons they are still reluctant to make some major changes, which we urgently require! -
You all want the racial killings to be here again har?
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You are too imaginative....Even if that happen,modern criminal investigation wont allow the culprit to simply run away like that.And besides,from what u said,other countries which never impose such system will all gone chaotic n went collapse already.But does that happen?Originally posted by maggot:Later if a chinese gal went to a block full of other race and got XXXX or what ever......no evidence can be found nor witness
Or worse got XXXX by the whole block
Just her luck -
Yes because some countries don't have such "good" investigations...the victims just kept mumedOriginally posted by drawer:You are too imaginative....Even if that happen,modern criminal investigation wont allow the culprit to simply run away like that.And besides,from what u said,other countries which never impose such system will all gone chaotic n went collapse already.But does that happen? -
ALTHOUGH the different races here have grown closer over time, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong does not think Singapore will ever become a kopi susu nation.
As with the world, there are different races and religions here, so people must not pretend they are not there, he said.
Lee was replying to a grassroots leader who had asked if, in the future, the fault lines of race and religion could be blurred.
It is a goal which Singapore is working towards, 'but one country completely homogenised, served together like kopi susu, I don't think that's going to happen,' he said to laughter during a dialogue, referring to the local term for coffee with milk.
The meeting with about 1,700 community leaders and students was held on Thursday to discuss Singapore's new Community Engagement Programme.
It seeks to build a network of people from all races and groups so that Singapore will hold together and not fall apart in the event of a terror attack.
Lee, in his reply, felt 'people want to keep different religions, different customs'.
“Until all the world religions become one, we will have more than one religion in Singapore,'' he added.
He also did not agree with some community leaders who felt Singapore could be made race-blind by erasing it from the identity cards and job applications.
It will not work, said Lee, citing the French experience and the discrimination Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew faced as a student looking for housing in Britain.
He believes it is better to acknowledge the realities of race, religion and language.
“In Singapore, we deal with realities but we move to make progress, to make this a more integrated and more united society. I think that's a practical approach.''
Pointing to France, he noted that the word “race'' is not seen anywhere and the official government line is that everybody's French.
“You can't say you're a Frenchman from Algeria, Frenchman from Morocco. You're a Frenchman,'' said Lee, who visited the country last November.
Yet, the reality is far from the ideal.
Frenchmen of different races and religions live in different areas, with the people of African and Arab origins congregating in the ghettos of Paris.
The people who live in the down-and-out places say this is make-believe. We are not all the same. You pretend that we're all the same
France was rocked by three weeks of riots last November when youths of African and Arab descent torched cars, looted and clashed with the police across the country.
To aggravate matters, Lee said, the French do not have statistics and data to help them identify the problems because it is illegal to collect statistics by race.
He also recounted MM Lee's experience when he was a student in Britain looking for a place to stay.
He would call up and say he was “Mr Lee''. As some Englishman also share the same surname, the landlords would think he was white.
'When he shows up, they tell him, sorry, no flat, no vacancies, because actually they saw him: He's a Chinese. -
The irony of it all can be seen when you recall that SM Goh used to give the example of the french soccer team being comprised of different talents from all over the world coming together as one people to win the World Cup.
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And also, malay children get free primary and secondary education! Not so for the other races!Originally posted by ShutterBug:hmmmm... rediculous as it may sound, but it does make sense.
All because we are small.
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You mean African countries?Originally posted by maggot:Yes because some countries don't have such "good" investigations...the victims just kept mumed -
Don't say African countries. Indonesia also like that, I think.Originally posted by drawer:You mean African countries? 
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not only malays wor...Originally posted by ShutterBug:Hi dragg,
Well, ya - we generally don't mix around much, except for those housewives aunties.
But let me draw your attention to how Malays tend to group together on ground floors, and can even occupy almost half the entire flat from 1st floor to 5-6 floor.
Ever notice how certain estates, the ground floor every unit is occupied by malays? And they convert the surrounding into like a kampong. Things everywhere, benches, tables, like they own the entire common corridor including garden.
I'm not saying that they are bad in this way, they are just community minded, they like to group together. This is why the Ethnic Quota System is in place. Now, this Policy I can understand.
Even in schools these days, students are encouraged to mix around with other races. This is to cultivate social and racial cohesion, not band together as one race, and alienate yourself from the other races. It's unhealthy.
What's your take on this view point?
but other race oso have.
garden.. walked past one of those gardens before... very nice -
While sounding distasteful, an ethnic quota is a necessary factor to ensure a stable degree of racial harmony. WP's position on fairness in terms of re-sale value for the minority races is a weak point as careful planning should circumvent this problem.Originally posted by claudetnt:oxford mushroom:
"-An ethnic quota system is necessary. We must not allow the segregation of races as it exists in many western nations, the results of which are clear, based on recent events in France and the UK.
Chinese Singaporeans should be encouraged to reside in areas where there is a greater proportion of minority races and similarly, the latter should be encouraged to find housing in Chinese-predominant neighborhoods. Though painful, if we consider the bigger picture the price differential is good, so as to discourage racial segregation."
You must be joking!
You simply do not understand that its all these laws had altered the mindset of the majority to a certain extent. Some of our people's mind had been "rewired" by the people "up-there". The trend among many young people today is mixing mostly with their own kind; only superficially do you see the mixing of races for the cameras and politicians. At almost all dialogue sessionÂ’s ministers are always bombarded with racial issues esp among the minorities asking for some sort of assurances and guarantees that they are not sidelined. Are these hysterical people? There is a real problem here, which fortunately some of our politicians have come to realize, but due to some reasons they are still reluctant to make some major changes, which we urgently require!
If you need examples of what removing such quotas will do, just look at New Orleans, USA. The recent Hurricane Katrina exposed the flaws and bigotry in a 'free society', exemplifying the problem when ethnic groups congregate. Taken from interviews with US citizens: "No white man feels safe in New Orleans".
The fact that the White House stayed blind to this growing cesspool proliferated its decay and even today they feel the urge to DEFEND their actions during Katrina (Below).
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/K/KATRINA_CONGRESS?SITE=ASIAONE&SECTION=TOP_STORIES&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
In Singapore context, by removing these control barriers, what's to stop the Chinese/Malay/Indian from devolving to their primitive and backward enclave mentality? Worst, these enclaves are more than likely to practice bigotry and racial discrimination, scenes reminicent of the old days in SG.
Our current system is one of racial tolerance. Ethnic quotas enforce this to achieve the ultimate goal: one of racial ACCEPTANCE. -
\Originally posted by protonhybrid:i'd say it's racism at play. being part of the majority, you dont even see what some minorities MAY be going through.
it's an open secret that malays are not allowed to access the topmost echelons of singapore's def.force coz of security threat.
spf & scdf, pose less of a threat than singapore air force, so "less trustworthy" ppl can employ there oso.
Hey man this public forum..think about it before you post any crap.
I haven been on the local forum for a long time and the postings gimme thee impression that the younger generation in incapable of using their own brain.
And its an open secret that you've just diplayed your stupidity in the public. -
But the point is,did they collapse?Did their government collapse without using ethnic group quota system?I know Suharto government did collapse,but it is becoz of dictatorial ruling like Singapore,the new Indonesian government also never adopt any ethnic group quota system.In fact,only Singapore PAP government is soooo g@y to impose such a system.No other countries in this world i know by far has impose such a g@y system!!!!Originally posted by iveco:Don't say African countries. Indonesia also like that, I think. -
Well, if you think about it logically, it can be viewed as a form of racial discrimination since you can't buy/sell a flat because of your race.