NS Draft Laws revised...
-
You sure it is a 'force effect'?Originally posted by free thinker:Yes I would agree if he happens to be a Singapore-Born male. What happens if he is born OVERSEAS and clearly does not want to make Singapore his home? Then that would be extremly unfair isn't it?
*FYI, any person born OVERSEAS but acquired Singapore Citizenship due to DESCENT shall cease to be a citizen if he/she does not take an OATH by the age of 21.*[/b][/quote]
[quote]Originally posted by free thinker:
[b]
Dear TooFree
In my opinion it doesnt matter what the percentage is. The important thing is that the child DOES NOT get to reject the Singapore Citizenship from birth. He is FORCED to take it. Therefore it is like forcing him to do NS.
He doesn't need to renounce his allegiance to Singapore. The government automatically "cancel" him if he doesn' take the OATH by 21. Regardless of whether he did NS or not.
Cheers
You are contradicting yourself with the sentences that I highlighted.
Which groups you referring to now?
-
Dear TooFreeOriginally posted by TooFree:You sure it is a 'force effect'?
You are contradicting yourself with the sentences that I highlighted.
Which groups you referring to now?
You see, the government sees them as Singaporeans right after their birth. Lets say he decided not to take the OATH, MINDEF would force him to serve as he is still Singaporean. So the situation is like this, whether he wants to take the OATH or not is another story.... But he needs to serve first. That is the part which annoys me. Unless he leaves Singapore, he WILL have to serve even though he does not want to take the OATH at 21.
Cheers -
Hi free thinker,
When u mean 'any person born oversea but acquired the Singapore citizenship by descent', do you actually mean out of wedlock child?
Out of wedlock child status is rather unique in the society cluster. Seriously, this particular group needs to relate on statistical figures to show there is a case for concern.
If u are not referring to this kindly elaborate in details the sentence I highlighted in red.
-
I don't see the need to follow suit without first thinking of the unique nature of each country, time and space. In the case of USA that you provided, you are referring to protests in a wartime situation!Originally posted by iveco:The USA ACTUALLY lowered the voting age from 21 to 18 at the height of the Vietnam War following protests from students unhappy about the draft.
More recently, the WP wanted to reduce the voting age to 19. If I am not wrong it was back in the mid-90s. Maybe Goh Meng Seng might have heard of it from his party bosses.
Still I do not see how letting 18-year-olds vote is nonsensical just because military service is mandatory.
Knowing your history is good but to apply the gist and lessons learnt in policies is no means and easy feat. The right application is more critical than quoting history texts my friend. Why dont you gave me a list of benefits of a revised voting age which are more practical.
In my opinion, the argument for voting at 18 does not benefits the society as a whole, neither does it contribute to economics. And I have to remind you again that NS is MANDATORY. (Statistics had proven that Singaporeans shared a common understanding that NS is necessary) -
Dear TooFreeOriginally posted by TooFree:Hi free thinker,
When u mean 'any person born oversea but acquired the Singapore citizenship by descent', do you actually mean out of wedlock child?
Out of wedlock child status is rather unique in the society cluster. Seriously, this particular group needs to relate on statistical figures to show there is a case for concern.
If u are not referring to this kindly elaborate in details the sentence I highlighted in red.
Regarding the sentence in red. I mean those males born overseas whose either parent is Singaporean. Under the constitution, a person born overseas in this category automatically becomes a Citizen due to DESCENT.
I hoped to have cleared your doubts.
Cheers -
To say, a Singaporean man marrying a foreigner wife and had a child borned in the country of the mother country of residence. Rightfully, the rights to a citizenship should follow the father (breadwinner) and the entire family unit should migrate to the country that the father reside in. No issue with this part.Originally posted by free thinker:Dear TooFree
Regarding the sentence in red. I mean those males born overseas whose either parent is Singaporean. Under the constitution, a person born overseas in this category automatically becomes a Citizen due to DESCENT.
I hoped to have cleared your doubts.
Cheers
However, I do agree that women can be the sole income-earner in recent years as the workforce gets more educated. Hence, there is a likelyhood that the father migrate instead. I guess there is no issue once the citizenship is granted to the father.
Problems occur when the father itself cannot aquired the citizenship due to a lack of skills or professional qualifications. Making his son liable for NS as reflected in the system on the family root between father and son. By letting the son to renounce his citizenship and discharge all NS liability has no inter-correctional relationship to the father getting his citizenship any faster.
It seem the solution to the root of this problem can be better achieve by focusing on the way the granting of citizenship to a newborn instead of fine-tuning the renoucing law as the option. Although the problems may be tackle from there, the implementation process still lies in the statistical figures for this unique group.
I hoped to have gave you an insight. -
If you do not inform the SG Embassy, your child will not be granted citizenship.Never give the agencies a reason to know you had a son abroad.Originally posted by free thinker:Dear TooFree
In my opinion it doesnt matter what the percentage is. The important thing is that the child DOES NOT get to reject the Singapore Citizenship from birth. He is FORCED to take it. Therefore it is like forcing him to do NS.
He doesn't need to renounce his allegiance to Singapore. The government automatically "cancel" him if he doesn' take the OATH by 21. Regardless of whether he did NS or not.
Cheers
Get him registered as a national of that country of birth and let him get his citizenship by virtue of birth.There is no reason why he should serve NS if he's not going to stay in Singapore or even grow up here.
This is the gist of the unfairness of the law.It's akin to cheapening our citizenship by granting it to all and sundry who are remotely legal enough to achieve it.IF they do not wish to stay here, why force them to serve?Lazy to settle manpower shortage?? -
Then that person should not benefit from the Singapore system as well. Since he is born overseas, let him remain overseas as well and he will cease to be a citizen at the age of 21.Originally posted by free thinker:Yes I would agree if he happens to be a Singapore-Born male. What happens if he is born OVERSEAS and clearly does not want to make Singapore his home? Then that would be extremly unfair isn't it?
*FYI, any person born OVERSEAS but acquired Singapore Citizenship due to DESCENT shall cease to be a citizen if he/she does not take an OATH by the age of 21.*
All Singapore citizens who have migrated overseas before age 11 and intend to renounce their Singapore citizenship can apply for deferment from NS at the CMPB that will be valid till age 21, when they can renounce their citizenship. Read this statement from the website of the US Department of State:
"National service-liable males who migrated from Singapore before age 11 and have not enjoyed significant socio-economic benefits of citizenship (e.g., applied for a Singapore identity card or studied in Singapore beyond the age of 11) will be allowed to renounce their Singapore citizenship if they do not wish to fulfill their NS obligations. They will be required to register for national service with Central Manpower Base and apply for deferment from full-time NS until the age of 21, pending the renunciation of their Singapore citizenship. They can continue to make short social visits to Singapore and will not be required to serve NS if they renounced their citizenship at age 21."
( http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1017.html) -
Any Singaporean citizen who has benefited from being a citizen should be required to serve NS. If he does not intend to be a citizen, he should not benefit from the contributions of loyal Singaporeans either.
-
Of course I know that conscription is mandatory. With the revised draft law, it is like two steps forward and one step backwards, taking into account the recommendations of RECORD 3 some years back.Originally posted by TooFree:In my opinion, the argument for voting at 18 does not benefits the society as a whole, neither does it contribute to economics. And I have to remind you again that NS is MANDATORY. (Statistics had proven that Singaporeans shared a common understanding that NS is necessary)
It is the mandatory nature of NS that makes it imperative to give fresh recruits a chance to determine who is fit to rule the country. They deserve every chance to choose their masters.