If Hitler hadn't attacked Russia, then....
-
And marry a horseface wife...Originally posted by Ito_^:maybe he wld be a pastor n preach for peace in a church.
Or he would adopt the nick "salman" and contribute at sgforums...
-
Tink..he refer to T-x...or T1000...astalavista baby�IOriginally posted by fudgester:Erm... are you referring to the T-34? -
Opps! double post!
-
Agreed. As I've said, Hitler was an idiot, and we are all the better for it. We're here not to glorify him, but rather to discuss about alternate scenarios in which he might actually have won. He was a beast who had no remorse about ordering the death of millions, and I certainly cannot imagine an alternate scenario where he is the Fuhrer of a Greater Germany spanning Europe, North Africa, the Middle East and Russia.Originally posted by snow leopard:the world idolisation is not entirely appropriate. we're merely discussing the turn of events and how bad decisions affected those outcomes. if you read deeper into the subject, you would understand that given the information that was available, no matter how incomplete it was, hitler's generals would have made much better decisions than he did. to sum it, the brilliance of the german war machine was destroyed by the man who turned out to be a mere politician than a true conqueror.
no one is denying that the holocaust is a horrific human tragedy but if we lump everything together, than the holocaust will mask everything else including some of the most brilliant military tactics ever.
just imagine, when news of rommel's death reached the allied camp, officers and men alike paid silent respect to this most feared adversary.
ww2 is not just about hitler. there were countless heroes and brilliant strategists on either side that sacrificed their lives for their fellow comrades.
He was a beast of the highest order, and we should be glad that he was a fool of the highest order as well. He did make the right decision in trusting the controversial Manstein Plan in the invasion of France, but he let that go straight to his head. Thereafter that upstart corporal would hardly listen to the logic and reasoning of his generals. -
The title shall be if the Japanese attack Russia instead of South-east asia....
By targeting East Russia,first-Japanese will not anger the USA as the Amreican had an interest in S.E.A with Philippines as their base.The clash of interest will not happen.USA will not enter the war and Russian and Great Britain will continue to fight for their own life!
Second ,the Russia need to really dispatch their huge forces to battle the Jap in East Russia and Stalingrad will fall easily with Russia oill intesrest easily fall under Hitler control. Plus,it is always difficult to defend when sandwich between 2 enemies! The Axis power will really united and the main continent of the world will be under axis control.Japanese shall be able to defend against the Russia with their powerful navy althought their army will suffer in China but with a enemies(German) always on yr tail,Russia army will not last long! -
Originally posted by zenden9:
I agree partly. In order to invade Russia, most likely the easier route was to attack China first, which Japan did in the first place.
[b]The title shall be if the Japanese attack Russia instead of South-east asia....
By targeting East Russia,first-Japanese will not anger the USA as the Amreican had an interest in S.E.A with Philippines as their base.The clash of interest will not happen.USA will not enter the war and Russian and Great Britain will continue to fight for their own life!
Second ,the Russia need to really dispatch their huge forces to battle the Jap in East Russia and Stalingrad will fall easily with Russia oill intesrest easily fall under Hitler control. Plus,it is always difficult to defend when sandwich between 2 enemies! The Axis power will really united and the main continent of the world will be under axis control.Japanese shall be able to defend against the Russia with their powerful navy althought their army will suffer in China but with a enemies(German) always on yr tail,Russia army will not last long![/b]
The main reason why Japan choose to attack SEA simultaneously was because SEA is rich in natural resources and also Japan lacking the power of buying resources for their imperial army. -
Originally posted by zenden9:
Nyet... if the Japs had invaded Russia instead of SE Asia, they would have had to face the Siberian divisions - the divisions which are well-equipped and well-suited to the cold. After the Soviet spymaster Richard Sorge assured Stalin that the Japs would not invade Russia, Stalin diverted those Siberian divisions to fight the Germans. It was those Siberian divisions which proved to be the turning point - no way could the Germans handle all that firepower being thrown at them.
[b]The title shall be if the Japanese attack Russia instead of South-east asia....
By targeting East Russia,first-Japanese will not anger the USA as the Amreican had an interest in S.E.A with Philippines as their base.The clash of interest will not happen.USA will not enter the war and Russian and Great Britain will continue to fight for their own life!
Second ,the Russia need to really dispatch their huge forces to battle the Jap in East Russia and Stalingrad will fall easily with Russia oill intesrest easily fall under Hitler control. Plus,it is always difficult to defend when sandwich between 2 enemies! The Axis power will really united and the main continent of the world will be under axis control.Japanese shall be able to defend against the Russia with their powerful navy althought their army will suffer in China but with a enemies(German) always on yr tail,Russia army will not last long![/b]
Besides, in 1939, border skirmishes actually did occur between the Soviets and the Japanese Army in Manchuria. The brilliant general Georgy Zhukov managed to drive back the 6th Japanese Army with brilliant mobile armour tactics. The battle experience gained by the Siberian divisions in this battle proved to be useful in their counterstrike against the Nazis.
Besides, these skirmishes convinced the Japs to not attack the Soviets and to risk going to war with the Americans instead. -
thanks buddy ... will saviour it in my free time ...Originally posted by Fatum:well ... for the chaps interested in alternate history, here's an interesting site, that examines alternate outcomes for various historical events in a fiction form.
http://www.alternatehistory.com/ahdirectory.html#WW2
it makes interesting reading ... -
cheers mateOriginally posted by fudgester:Agreed. As I've said, Hitler was an idiot, and we are all the better for it. We're here not to glorify him, but rather to discuss about alternate scenarios in which he might actually have won. He was a beast who had no remorse about ordering the death of millions, and I certainly cannot imagine an alternate scenario where he is the Fuhrer of a Greater Germany spanning Europe, North Africa, the Middle East and Russia.
He was a beast of the highest order, and we should be glad that he was a fool of the highest order as well. He did make the right decision in trusting the controversial Manstein Plan in the invasion of France, but he let that go straight to his head. Thereafter that upstart corporal would hardly listen to the logic and reasoning of his generals. -
Damn narrow-minded ppl to come to a conclusion with one freakin event.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:if Hitler won the won, this discussion would be in German or Japanese. -
are you saying that I am narrow minded>?Originally posted by mickeysg:Damn narrow-minded ppl to come to a conclusion with one freakin event.