disturbing tale of abu gharib torture: revealed in pics
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these pictures the great peoples of a certain great nation, who often has no respect for other cultures, people or religion, didn't think will become public. the same people are furious, fuming with anger, that it became public.
CAUTION: Disturbing content. View at your own discretion.
http://smh.com.au/ftimages/2006/02/15/1139890768716.html
sorry to see humanity has no place in these barbaric people's acts. can someone even explain why, why it can be condoned if at all? the likes of "salman" may especially wanna help since he seems so interested in affairs involving conflict.
peace. -
nothing can compare to the real abu gharib that was under Saddam.
Did we see you hypocrites complain back then? Nope? -
I agree with SALMAN. Under Saddam, there were mass executions and goodness knows what happened to them before they were killed.Originally posted by Salman:nothing can compare to the real abu gharib that was under Saddam.
Did we see you hypocrites complain back then? Nope?
But I also strongly believe that coalition forces shouldn't do these sort of things. This only breeds new terrorists! Those responsible should be dealt with severly for violating the Geneva Convention. -
so that's how you CONDONE those acts? hmmm..your intentions are fishy.Originally posted by Salman:nothing can compare to the real abu gharib that was under Saddam.
Did we see you hypocrites complain back then? Nope?
calling me names? not good. just because you're losing doesn't mean you gotta call me names, use civilized language and behaviour.
peace.
oh btw, can i ask YOU to give me the figures for CIVILIAN deaths due to illegal occupation of Iraq alone? plz give me those figures, and quote your source. if you want to justify those acts, i won't stop you either.
let us see if you call me more names or use some common sense (i am beginning to think you may lack that faculty, but not sure as of now).
peace -
hello! which world are you living in? no one says saddam was good. does that mean iraq is good now, or its illegal invasion can be justified. no!Originally posted by free thinker:I agree with SALMAN. Under Saddam, there were mass executions and goodness knows what happened to them before they were killed.
But I also strongly believe that coalition forces shouldn't do these sort of things. This only breeds new terrorists! Those responsible should be dealt with severly for violating the Geneva Convention.
btw,
it may be cheem, but u gotta noe ur facts first. IF u dunno what happened, why you even use that as an argument. that "I dont even know what happened back then, goodness me, THEREFORE, whatever happens now can be justified. OR is at least better than before".
Under Saddam, there were mass executions and goodness knows what happened to them before they were killed.
in an argument, you gotta know what you're arguing for and against. -
dear protonhybrid
I did not mean to say that everyone said Saddam was good and US involvement is correct. But i am sure life under Saddam wasn't any nicer than life now.
I don't know about you, but i feel that it is very wrong for the occuping forces to do such things to prisoners. -
Where did i coindone those tortures?
I don't condone proton's hypocrisy though. -
of course dear free thinker fren,Originally posted by free thinker:dear protonhybrid
I did not mean to say that everyone said Saddam was good and US involvement is correct. But i am sure life under Saddam wasn't any nicer than life now.
I don't know about you, but i feel that it is very wrong for the occuping forces to do such things to prisoners.
i feel like you and we're totally unlike the self-professed multiculturalist salman, who doesn't have a word to say when these disturbing tales emerge!
I am not TOO SURE life wasn't any nicer under saddam in iraq than now. I don't want to be too cocky to assume i know iraqis' preferences better than their own selves. that's just arrogance!
they know what's better for them! so i won't say which one was better or worse, i know both are very bad and were very bad. one of them claiming superiority over the other is hypocrisy and mendacious. -
POW is common...... jus a matter of which side you are standing...
a knife can cut you or others.... just a matter of how you use it -
so that's your argument? very nice logicOriginally posted by Salman:Where did i coindone those tortures?
I don't condone proton's hypocrisy though.
btw maybe you forgot it oredi, so lemme remind u, i requested you to give me the total number of CIVILIAN casualties in Iraq after this illegal invasion. and you can give me your source too. i also said i didn't stop you from justifying them, since you like to think muslims are threats to world peace.
now state those figures with source plz. -
your point being? that these tortures are also common and justifiable? bravo fren bravo! just dun be surprised and pretend to not understand when some bigger neighbours want to squeeze your country for some pleasure, or your civilians too in bad times, coz "POW is common....jus a matter of which side you are standing....".Originally posted by honour & glory:POW is common...... jus a matter of which side you are standing...
a knife can cut you or others.... just a matter of how you use it -
Can I request the civilian casualties under Saddam Hussein?Originally posted by protonhybrid:so that's your argument? very nice logic
btw maybe you forgot it oredi, so lemme remind u, i requested you to give me the total number of CIVILIAN casualties in Iraq after this illegal invasion. and you can give me your source too. i also said i didn't stop you from justifying them, since you like to think muslims are threats to world peace.
now state those figures with source plz.
Did we see you complain about it? Whats all this hypocrisy all about?
Illegal invasion? What illegal invasion? Was there a court case and a trial? -
tis is life.... nothing can change tis fact.
in war, there is only winner/conqueror. there is no place for losers.
thus to avoid being the losers, all means of winning MUST BE UPHOLD.
death is just a number.
throughout history, a strong and capable nation is built upon piles of bones.
my stand is firm....
if you cannot take it, just to bad.... -
I have to disagree with you this time.Originally posted by Salman:Can I request the civilian casualties under Saddam Hussein?
Did we see you complain about it? Whats all this hypocrisy all about?
Illegal invasion? What illegal invasion? Was there a court case and a trial?
You feel that the US-led coalition was justified right... The US went in there to "remove" WMD. But they found nothing! You call that legal?
About it being a court case... I feel that it is totally unnecessary for it to go there. Its like small children arguing with each other. Waste of time. -
Just because there was no WMDs does not mean it wasn't there.
Saddam had them and used them against Iranians and Kurds and he made life impossible for the UN inspectors that they left in disgust.
All intelligence services pointed to a WMD porgram, the Russians, French, Brit, Isreali. How do you account for the 20 ton of VX that was found in Jordan just after the war?
Saddam was given 12 years to cooperate with the UN and he never complied. The world needs to act.
You may not agree with the invasion but you can never say it was illegal. -
President Bush and PM Blair said that they might have been wrong about WMDs in a news conference... So i don't understand why you still believe that there were WMDs.Originally posted by Salman:Just because there was no WMDs does not mean it wasn't there.
Saddam had them and used them against Iranians and Kurds and he made life impossible for the UN inspectors that they left in disgust.
All intelligence services pointed to a WMD porgram, the Russians, French, Brit, Isreali. How do you account for the 20 ton of VX that was found in Jordan just after the war?
Saddam was given 12 years to cooperate with the UN and he never complied. The world needs to act.
You may not agree with the invasion but you can never say it was illegal.
I never said it was illegal. But sending armed forces into another sovereign state without the UNSC( United Nations Security Council) approval and backing suggests something! Moreover, there were other countries that strongly disapproved this operation. What do think of their opinions? -
This is an excuse by Bush n Blair to invade Iraq n another reason Al QaedaOriginally posted by free thinker:President Bush and PM Blair said that they might have been wrong about WMDs in a news conference... So i don't understand why you still believe that there were WMDs.
I never said it was illegal. But sending armed forces into another sovereign state without the UNSC( United Nations Security Council) approval and backing suggests something! Moreover, there were other countries that strongly disapproved this operation. What do think of their opinions?
has established a base in Iraq. Strong reason to invade but more trouble cause if u look at it, the terroist getting stronger.
The invasion is getting no result n many US troops had perished necesarily. -
Originally posted by free thinker:
They said they might be wrong, they didn't say they were wrong.
President Bush and PM Blair said that they might have been wrong about WMDs in a news conference... So i don't understand why you still believe that there were WMDs.
I think the only thing they were wrong about was Saddam Hussein leaving his WMDs around to be discovered by the coalition, not that it wasn't there.
Had there been no invasion, it would still be there cos it was there and it was used to kills tens of thousands.
The question still remains, how do you account for the 20 tons of VX foiund in Jordan?
Invasion of Bosnia and Kosovo didn't have UNSC approval too and there were nations who strongly disapproved it too. I didn't see you complain. Why the hypocrisy.
I never said it was illegal. But sending armed forces into another sovereign state without the UNSC( United Nations Security Council) approval and backing suggests something! Moreover, there were other countries that strongly disapproved this operation. What do think of their opinions?
You think the UN is perfect? Are you saying the UN is perfect? -
Originally posted by will4:
Yes indeed. Saddam did house, fund and train Al Qaeda. Thats good enough reason to remove him.
[b]
This is an excuse by Bush n Blair to invade Iraq n another reason Al Qaeda
has established a base in Iraq. Strong reason to invade but more trouble cause if u look at it, the terroist getting stronger.
No result you say?
The invasion is getting no result n many US troops had perished necesarily.
Iraq can't harm any other countrie sany more, Saddam is on trail and waiting to be hanged and the Iraqis had democratic elections.
What do you mean persih unnecessarily? Please explain. -
Under Geneva convention, terrorists are not considered as POW but as common criminals. They cannot be said to be patriots fighting for the good of a nation unless they are soldiers.
Torture and inhumane treatment exists everywhere. Why don't you complain about changi prisons first? How come inmates are not given beds, privacy etc?
Prisons are different from hotels, get used to it.
I'm not saying the treatment at abu gharib is rite, but I dun think its fair for us to say that it is wrong. Many times we only know one side of the story and we jump to conclusions. -
Some people here really possess a slavish mind that thinks the West can't be wrong, if not right, even when such brutality happens. Sadam did horrible things, right. But it does not make the brutality at abu gharib any more tolerable. Just wake up from your f%cking mind! You are no longer enslaved by your white colonial master. Think for yourself, please.
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Saddam might be on trial but it seemed Al Qaeda is geting stronger. There is no weapon of mass destruction to be found in Iraqi soil. The tie between IraqOriginally posted by Salman:No result you say?
Iraq can't harm any other countrie sany more, Saddam is on trail and waiting to be hanged and the Iraqis had democratic elections.
What do you mean persih unnecessarily? Please explain.
n Al Qaeda is not true. This is a mere fabrication to attack Iraq.
I never suppoted the Iragi regime but presenc of coaliation troop failed to deter any bombing from taking place. It is irony cause the invasion is bring peace but no peace everyday bomb take place. -
Actually, there is nothing right or wrong in this world. It is how you look at it; from which angle and mindset.
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Some people should avoid jumping to conclusions without sufficient information.Originally posted by dreameryb:Some people here really possess a slavish mind that thinks the West can't be wrong, if not right, even when such brutality happens. Sadam did horrible things, right. But it does not make the brutality at abu gharib any more tolerable. Just wake up from your f%cking mind! You are no longer enslaved by your white colonial master. Think for yourself, please.
This is not so much a pinkerton syndrome but rather a very sensible, logical course of action. One event that leads to another...
Saddam gassed the kurds, we like to condemn that action, inhuman, WMD, yada yada yada. How would you react in Saddam's shoe? How would other leaders react? saddam did what a good and strong leader would do, minimize death and suffering by his people by bringing the war to the enemy, quick and decisive.
The US claims they attacked iraq regarding some wmd. You can't be THAT stupid to accept that filmsy reasoning right? It was an excuse! What could be the real reason? I may never know but I believe oil was a driving factor.
Is it wrong for the americans to torture inmates in abu gharib? Since many forumers believe that it is "expected", "acceptable" and "understood" that muslims around kill danes, priests and conduct terrorism because of some pictures, why can't the americans torture known felons?
The reason for torture can be very diverse in fact. It is wrong to torture for fun, for the heck of it and "because others are doing it".
But time critical information, CIA interrogation for information, all these are done to save lives. Torture and hurt (NOT KILL) a few felons to save a few hundred of your own countrymen, that's worth a shot.
Also, abu gharib is a jail. Its not a hotel. There are no soft beds, gold taps and thick carpets. Don't expect VIP treatment by the soldiers who are already incensed that your fellow jihadists are killing their friends and colleague. You and your friends have been kidnapping and murdering soldiers and civillians alike.
Why don't you complain about changi prison's lack of beds, forced haircuts and lack of privacy?
If you do not want to have hundreds of muslims killing your people, don't publish offensive pictures of their prophet. If you do not want to get tortured in abu gharib, then don't conduct terrorism.
A disclaimer for the stupid:
I do NOT worship the white man. I've seen their "superior" behaviour and its disgraceful. I think most of them are dumb anyway. Chinese and indians are WAY smarter than them.
I DO NOT SUPPORT TORTURE FOR THE SAKE OF IT, FUN, FOR POLITICAL OPPRESSION OR BECAUSE THE JONESES ARE DOING IT.
I believe in the sanctity of life, ironically. TO SARCRIFICE ONE OR TWO TERRORIST TO SAVE ONE OR TWO HUNDRED OF YOUR FRIENDS, FAMILY AND COLLEAGUES IS RIGHT. -
Originally posted by will4:
It is great that Saddam the butcher is on trial but I don't think Al Qaeda is getting stronger.
Saddam might be on trial but it seemed Al Qaeda is geting stronger.
I think you did not follow the issue. Contrary to what you say, there are lots of proven links between Saddam and Al Qaeda. The anti war media may downplay it but it was certainly there and they could not deny it.
There is no weapon of mass destruction to be found in Iraqi soil. The tie between Iraq
n Al Qaeda is not true. This is a mere fabrication to attack Iraq.
If there wasn't any WMDs, how could the Kurds and Iranians get gassed?
How do you account for the 20 tons of VX in Jordan?
The presence of terrorists and their threats failed to deter three rounds of democratic elections too.
I never suppoted the Iragi regime but presenc of coaliation troop failed to deter any bombing from taking place. It is irony cause the invasion is bring peace but no peace everyday bomb take place.
Are you so intimidated by terrorists and what they do? The Iraqis aren't.