Singapore's ministers were overpaid?
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wtf...its not the ministers who serve the people. Its the road sweeper, the taxi and bus and mrt operators, our soldiers who serve the people! They should be the one drawing a good pay!
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Originally posted by grandeur:
Can performance of a Government be measured ?
Thanks for expressing your view in this fashion. I don't believe performance can be measured when there is no transparency. Lets say if a minister is getting US$10 million a year, will you still feel this is to ensure a corruption-free government?
The Ruling Political Party aka the Government claim that the annual economic result is an indicator of the work that THEY have done with their carefully planned policies that allow the clock work to tic-toc in sync to their plans.
Yet, when things begin to unravel - as in 1987, 1997, and 2002 - they will blamed on EXTERNAL FACTORS that are BEYOND their control.
Is it surprising that they can get things to work in a POSITVE MANNER, yet have no powers to MINIMISE the NEGATIVE effects to Singapore and Singaporeans ?
If one is to recall - during the early 1980s - the many complaints of the high CPF and high Wages from the SMEs before the 1987 crash, the Ruling Political Party aka the Government arrogantly dismissive to all these suggestions even from larger corporations and industries.
Even with three crashes to our economy, and with Committees formed, and grand statements that hooted 'NO STONES WILL BE LEFT UNTURNED' and that there will be 'NO SACRED COWS' - we were later told that some stones have been lifted up but returned to their original positions, and some sacred cows are simply too conveniently sacred to be rid off.
Is the Annual Economic Indicator a good measure of the work put in by the Government aka the Ruling Political Party, or should we also include into the indicator the movement in size of the Middle Income Group, the Lower Income Group; or perhaps the growth and reduction indicators of crime and social problems - suicide levels, joblessness, homeless, murders, robberies, rapes, gang riots ?
With the Statistic Department in the control of the Ruling Political Party aka the Government, can we depend on the department for the numbers that they churned out - in view of some of the past controversies in interpretation raised by some senior university lecturers (who were 'forced' to retract and apologise for the 'unauthorised' publicity ) ?
Is there anyone that is beyond the political influence and obligation to the Ruling Political Party to be able to stand up and be a truly independent administrator or arbitrator of a committee to measure such performance ? -
This is not about satisfying me, this is an issue of answering to the public. The ministers are paid by the government, the government is funded by the tax, the tax is collected from the people. Eventually You can see that the people are the bosses for the ministers because people are contributing money to pay them. And now the bosses are requesting to know how much the employees are paid. Can the employees tell the bosses that they cannot know how much they are getting?Originally posted by BillyBong:Or let's put it in another way: if they were to release the pay formula and ministrial salary package to you, justifying every cent and demonstrating a generally acceptable dollar value for their performance and workscope, would it be enough to satisfy you? -
The Bosses are setting the salary on how much they should be rewarded for the minimal job that they done (NB: the number of permanent secretary for one minister is huge).
The Peanut Organisation is just like Singapore.
That is why it got so much protection as the supporters are also run by the same system.
If you dare to set the salary, why the concern or fear on not disclosing it ?
Dun you see the similarities ???
We need LOTS of Reserves !!!!
Reserves is for WHOM ???? -
it's a known fact long long time ago...Originally posted by Qing^.^:My my Bush getting less than Loong.. Unbelievable
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i want to be a road sweeper when that day comes...Originally posted by Hellraiza:wtf...its not the ministers who serve the people. Its the road sweeper, the taxi and bus and mrt operators, our soldiers who serve the people! They should be the one drawing a good pay! -
To correct the thread starter.....AS of President George Bush, presidential pay has been revised to US$400k. But this is the pay component. He receives substantial allowances too.
As for Singapore ministerial pay, i thought they say they tie it to the highest paid professionals?
So their pay is "supposed" to be as high as the highest paid lawyer, accountant ? -
according to redbean, mysingaporenews.blogspot.com
written on march 2/extracted by abao:
it (ministerial pay) is conservatively 'pegged to two thirds of the income of the 24th highest earner(median) among a group comprising the top eight earners from six professions(bankers, accountants, engineers, mncs and local manufacturers.
hypothetically if in one bad year all these professionals are hit by a slump and the 24th highest earner earns only $50,000 pa, then our ministers will be paid 2/3 of $50,000 pa. but if there is an extraordinary year when there is a boom and the 24th earner earns $20 million, our ministers will also be paid 2/3 of $20 million. this is very fair. it is like a gambler going into a casino. when lucky, can make a few million. when unlucky can lose a few million. -
Evidently, it doesn't work that way now does it?Originally posted by grandeur:This is not about satisfying me, this is an issue of answering to the public. The ministers are paid by the government, the government is funded by the tax, the tax is collected from the people. Eventually You can see that the people are the bosses for the ministers because people are contributing money to pay them. And now the bosses are requesting to know how much the employees are paid. Can the employees tell the bosses that they cannot know how much they are getting?
Can we really put ourselves in a position such that we are the BOSSES of the ministers? Can we decide the fate of people who run the nation?
It is unfortunate that public servants who earn top dollar refuse to disclose their pay. Under standard employment contract terms, personal pay is legally secret and one has every right to supress it from public knowledge.
Unfortunately, despite all the govt's bravado, they have failed to address the real concern: the salary disparity between top civil servants and hearland 'peasants'.
If the average salary of Singaporeans were of a commeasurable value, the issue of highly (very highly) paid ministers will become a lesser talking point.
Another thing is that we cannot confuse tax with a minister's pay. Tax is a necessary cost needed to run a country. No one can govern a country with nothing.
Call it a necessary contribution.
And no govt in the world will reveal how tax dollars are used. Giving in to that option opens a whole can of worms. -
So in "theory" those top eight earners can sabo the minister by volunteering not to receive any pay for one year?Originally posted by abao:according to redbean, mysingaporenews.blogspot.com
quote:written on march 2/extracted by abao:
it (ministerial pay) is conservatively 'pegged to two thirds of the income of the 24th highest earner(median) among a group comprising the top eight earners from six professions(bankers, accountants, engineers, mncs and local manufacturers.
hypothetically if in one bad year all these professionals are hit by a slump and the 24th highest earner earns only $50,000 pa, then our ministers will be paid 2/3 of $50,000 pa. but if there is an extraordinary year when there is a boom and the 24th earner earns $20 million, our ministers will also be paid 2/3 of $20 million. this is very fair. it is like a gambler going into a casino. when lucky, can make a few million. when unlucky can lose a few million. -
Based on the progressive tax system, the more you earn, the more you are tax you pay. Well, are the salary figures before tax deduction....
One's disposable income for consumption is more or less leverage but such a system. This policy is known as automatic stablilizer!
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To be transparent mean you still can know what figures they are getting. Without transparency mean even if something goes wrong you won't be able to notice. Lets say if a minister is getting US$200 million a year with current progress of economy, will you still feel this is to ensure a corruption-free government?
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From what I know.. Minister's salary are tax exempted.Originally posted by stellazio:before cpf?before tax?