SDP/CSJ support SIA boycott?
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Have you guys ever wondered that SIA tickets are cheaper overseas so that the Airline will attract more Ang-mohs to fly SIA so that the company can earn more money?? SO that more Ang-mohs will come here to spend money? Old retired angmohs- may come here like it and bring their fortunes here too?
SIA is part our economy....Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles all rely on that. The more planes flying here = more usage = more jobs!
Which company dont work for Profit? Make it a dirty word if you want. I would make sure there are workers who earn $$$ too...
Oh wait, do you even notice that Airport Aunties and Uncles were there while you were flaming the company? -
Why travel there when I am everywhere, and expressing the same opinion to all and sundry about the truth of the SINGAPORE EXPERIENCE ?Originally posted by sigal2k+:Atobe,
If you really believe that Malaysia is a better country to demonstrate in than Singapore, Please Do go ahead and travel there to protest your claims on Us here. You will generate Headlines in ALL Malaysian Papers and we will read about you and your bravery against Singapore's Lack of Human Rights.
Without my contribution, the Singapore Government aka the Ruling Political Party is already doing a great job in making negative overseas publicity to the Singapore Political Image, except that the same is hidden from Singaporeans by clever propaganda.
Either you are dumb, or you think that I am dumber ? .
Malaysia is DIFFERENT from Singapore. They have a Bumiputra policy. Do we have a similar policy under official Governmental Laws? Do we Exclude the poor muslims/indians from "election shares?" Do we say that a Chinese must be co-owner of a company? Simply if you are SO against our lack of rights, join the Opposition parties! You are definitely Fired up enough to campaign!
[/quote]
Yes, Malaysia has a Bumiputra Policy that was PUBLICLY MADE KNOWN, and which unfortunately discriminate the other ethnic groups in all spheres of their national life from its very inception.
In Singapore, although there are no such public policy that favor ANY ethnic group in particular, are you certain that such unseen under current of selective 'discrimination' do not exist in the Singapore way of doing things ?
In the Singapore way, do we need to be so explicit as the Malaysians ?
The Singaporean way is more sophisticatedly subtle, we use more 'ELITIST' way to 'filter out' those whom we see as 'doubtful'; and if they ever become an ELITE, we use the Language hurdle as a filter, and how many more other creative ways of discriminating besides using the HDB Ethnic Quota Allocation to disperse the political influence of a gathering of minority in a sea of the majority ?
In any case, what does it matter to you if I do or do not decide to join the Opposition ?
Why are you so agitated to my position ?If a small thing has the power to make you angry,
does that not indicate something about your size?
~Sydney J. Harris
[quote]
You CAN Hold a silent Protest by yourself Walking around the Istana holding up a big board stating our lack of rights. The police will look at you. The reporters will notice and interview you and you will not be Arrested as long as you dont yell/run amok/turn streaker.
Now i'm waiting.
Surely you have the capacity to learn from the experience of others, or perhaps the years of spoon feeding and over dependence on the POWER OF ONE has stopped your ability to judge independently by yourself ?
There are many alternative ways to exercise our Rights when those opportunities are not available to us. .
Be patient and wait on, you will learn how a tree grow to be able to withstand the worse storm.
Patience: A minor form of despair disguised as a virtue.
~Ambrose Bierce
One moment of patience may ward off great disaster.
One moment of impatience may ruin a whole life.
~Chinese Proverb -
If you have said so in such clear manner, do we need to wonder at all ?Originally posted by sigal2k+:Have you guys ever wondered that SIA tickets are cheaper overseas so that the Airline will attract more Ang-mohs to fly SIA so that the company can earn more money?? SO that more Ang-mohs will come here to spend money? Old retired angmohs- may come here like it and bring their fortunes here too?
Yes, SIA is part of our company, but how much do the 'Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles' get from the work that they are doing ?
SIA is part our economy....Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles all rely on that. The more planes flying here = more usage = more jobs!
Which company dont work for Profit? Make it a dirty word if you want. I would make sure there are workers who earn $$$ too...
While SIA bring in the big spenders, and the Government Owned and Privately Owned Companies make the big bucks, what do Singaporeans get from their short term employment contracts, flexible wages that float differently from each calendar quarter, and cuts to our reduced flexible wages to a CPF that cannot be totally or usefully seen until we are near death.
Meanwhile, the Finance Ministry will reap the profits generated by SIA and all the other GLCs, and take control of the surplus from our taxes paid through GST and Income Tax, and control our locked up CPF for the purpose of using as Capital for the Foreign Adventures of Temasek and GIC.
Is it not great that you remembered to show some concern to the Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles ?
Oh wait, do you even notice that Airport Aunties and Uncles were there while you were flaming the company?
Do you realise that these Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles must continue to work to support themselves in their old age ?
Did you not realise that those Aunties/Uncles of the same age as the ones working at Changi Airport are coming from the Other First World ?
They are travelling on their savings to visit Singapore, while our Airport Aunties/Uncles are washing the toilets and serving those Foreign Aunties and Uncles.
Is there something wrong with our Singapore being a member of the First World Community ? -
QUOTE:
Why travel there when I am everywhere, and expressing the same opinion to all and sundry about the truth of the SINGAPORE EXPERIENCE ?
Without my contribution, the Singapore Government aka the Ruling Political Party is already doing a great job in making negative overseas publicity to the Singapore Political Image, except that the same is hidden from Singaporeans by clever propaganda
------
What's the TRUTH of the Singapore experience? All of us are poor, dirty and hungry. The elites are profiteering from the poor and we are squeezed dry by taxes? That we have not a single cent to spend and better our lives?
It is easy to always blame the rich that they keep the wealth for themselves. Heck, i'm poor myself but i dont say:" HUH? Why people get to live along bukit Timah, their Kids can Drive a car worth more than my salary? You know plainly that the money isnt the childrens!" It's not like Wealth is built overnight. If everyone can become a millionaire what's the value of money? You mean the elites get rich because the government fund them? Do you not accept the fact that all these "elites" have forefathers that were poor once?
Dont be saying that the "Ruling Party" is making a fool from ourselves. We at least show our stance if consistent! Which government doesnt make political errors? Would you rather support CSJ who runs to Australia to gain THEIR political support on our ineptness?
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Yes, Malaysia has a Bumiputra Policy that was PUBLICLY MADE KNOWN, and which unfortunately discriminate the other ethnic groups in all spheres of their national life from its very inception.
In Singapore, although there are no such public policy that favor ANY ethnic group in particular, are you certain that such unseen under current of selective 'discrimination' do not exist in the Singapore way of doing things ?
In the Singapore way, do we need to be so explicit as the Malaysians ?
The Singaporean way is more sophisticatedly subtle, we use more 'ELITIST' way to 'filter out' those whom we see as 'doubtful'; and if they ever become an ELITE, we use the Language hurdle as a filter, and how many more other creative ways of discriminating besides using the HDB Ethnic Quota Allocation to disperse the political influence of a gathering of minority in a sea of the majority ?
In any case, what does it matter to you if I do or do not decide to join the Opposition ?
Why are you so agitated to my position ?
------
Are you telling me that just because the bumiputra policy is good because it's made the law? The policy itself is a FARCE and insult to non-muslims. What HUMAN RIGHT is there to declare one citizen should gain at the expense of others? Do you support the oppression of females simply because it's made legal?
Discrimination exist in all nations in all countries. Are you saying that because it exist, we are wrong? Can you prevent the existence of such discrimination by choice of each individual? What kind of government declares it's stance that we are discriminatory instead of stating we abhor it? It's one thing that it exists in the nation because it is inevitable but it's another if you declare and show as A NATION we approve it and spport it.
As for language to be an "Elitist barrier" Its not official, it's the choice of those owners who are making an economic decision. If their products target a group whom speaks a certain language, why shouldnt Language be a criteria? There's no rule saying that a child MUST STUDY and ONLY study a language of his race. It's a choice that parents can actively choose. Is it any better that we insist that all Citizens must learn Chinese, English and your own mother tongue? Would that be a fair statement? Furthermore, are we stopping our call centres in India from growing because of language? If they speak English and well, they are equal in ability and better in terms of cost than a call centre here. It's not a langugage barrier but a reality. Each individual can make that difference to his life.
As for the Ethinic Quota Allocation. Would you rather that Singapore be divided to where they live according to their race? What will it be like? The Chinese in the N and C; Malays in the E; Indians in the W; FT in the S? DO you think any individual will chose to move to a part of Singapore that is of a different race by themselves? Would an Indian try to find work in the other parts of Singapore? There would be even more segregation. Look at European Countries: the choice for them to live where they live has resulted in the Muslims being overlooked / ignored in France plans. A riot has resulted that cause loss of property. It is human nature to seek similar friends but not to live with strangers.
It's totally different from the British government letting the formation of Chinatown, Kampong Glam and Bras Basar. Why are there racial Riots and how did it take place? The Chinese invaded Kampong Glam and caused deaths! Would you like this sort of riot occuring on a national scale? Given the numbers of the Chinese, they will develop faster. Would this "betterment" of that race not create racial discontentment? Can you foresee the problems if An area of Singapore is better off than another base purely on race? What kind of result can you provide should there be a disagreement between races in terms of political/ legal ruling?
Why joining the opposition speaks volumes! It shows whether you are really interested in changing and bettering the lives of others around you or just bashing the government for whatever injustice you feel it being laid upon us. And the lack of credility of Opposition is also due to lack of talent! If you are so convince that your views are acceptable by the average Singaporean, the campaign WILL be a turning point. If you win, are you not on your first steps of creating a state that you so believe is much better?
I am of course very concern about your views! You seem to be keen on self-interests than that of everyone else in the picture!
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QUOTE:
Either you are dumb, or you think that I am dumber ? .
Surely you have the capacity to learn from the experience of others, or perhaps the years of spoon feeding and over dependence on the POWER OF ONE has stopped your ability to judge independently by yourself ?
There are many alternative ways to exercise our Rights when those opportunities are not available to us. .
Be patient and wait on, you will learn how a tree grow to be able to withstand the worse storm.
-----
Well, not standing up for yourself but waiting for the time to come? When will that time come? And why would it? Simply because there's someone else who initiates this new"time" to come! You would rather wait until someone else makes his stance against the government before you get vocal? The government has taught you to challenge only when others are doing so? If you are SO strongly against the governemental policy, challenge them! Write to the newspaper forums! You can choose to ignore the replies of offical people but you can read the opinions of other citizens in return to gauge whether there are others like minded like you. Which i believe there is. Are you waiting for the time of a revolution? Are you prepared to changed your life much differently from the way it is now? What happens if there is a change but not the way you think it should be? To be in charge of changes, you need to lead. Are you growing a forest to hold the storm at bay? Or are you proclaiming that you, one tree is all that matters?
------
QUOTE:
Yes, SIA is part of our company, but how much do the 'Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles' get from the work that they are doing ?
While SIA bring in the big spenders, and the Government Owned and Privately Owned Companies make the big bucks, what do Singaporeans get from their short term employment contracts, flexible wages that float differently from each calendar quarter, and cuts to our reduced flexible wages to a CPF that cannot be totally or usefully seen until we are near death.
Meanwhile, the Finance Ministry will reap the profits generated by SIA and all the other GLCs, and take control of the surplus from our taxes paid through GST and Income Tax, and control our locked up CPF for the purpose of using as Capital for the Foreign Adventures of Temasek and GIC.
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Are you saying that because big companies get the big bucks we lose out? It's an economic decision. Of course each company will be be operating at cost. Those are called Non-profit Organisations and those serve a different service! Who will invest in a company that doesnt grow? If a company doesnt grow how will be be able to hire more people? You are blaming the companies for not sharing the profits but at the same time, by not sharing the profits now, it can be pumped into growth and ensure there are at least a portion of jobs that locals can be hired. You look as if one extra measly appointment for a citizen is nothing. It means that a person can feed his family! Its the little bits that count to make up a greater whole!
As for CPF, that is the way Singaporeans have to buy their homes. Why do houses cost money? and why do they rise all the time? Our land is limited and corporations(local/government/foreign) all compete to turn this land into something more valuable and lucrative. We already have such a huge Debt problem amongst citizens because we spend more than we earn. It's unavoidable whether there's CPF.Would you die poor? Or at least have a paltry sum to sustain your remaining years.
Which person will REALLY save that much money to think of the future if not forced? It isnt any different had you have the full income and spending it all.
Stop saying taxes like it's a dirty word. TO you, tax is everything from income tax to GST. Income tax affects those who EARNS more than 1.5k per month. It is income bracket based. The main thing is that we ensure that the RICH stays here. The RICH are those who have mobility to move from country to country. We do not. If they are here, they spend money here. That goes to the fastfood restaurant staff, the petrol station staff, the cleaners.
If the nation does not have reserves that build year on year, the actualy amount of reserve per person decreases as inflation and larger population rise overtime. This reserve shows our Economic power and stability all in all is to attract more investments here to grow. So what if we dont have handouts from this monstrous sums of cash? It's human greed and we will not appreciate it any longer than until we have spent it. Then would we demand for more? When would we stop? Until this piggy bank is broken and empty?
You blame the government that Privately owned companies are paying low wages. If we set wage minimums, how would that affect our overall ecconomi activity? Companies will pull out to exploit other countries without such legal protectionism. It is still an acceptable wage in comparision to having nothing at all should these companies leave Singapore! I do not believe that it is fair to have such low wages especially fot manual labour but we are fish fry in the ocean. This is the same EVERYWHERE in the world. Or would you rather support the CAP programme in France?
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QUOTE:
Is it not great that you remembered to show some concern to the Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles ?
Do you realise that these Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles must continue to work to support themselves in their old age ?
Did you not realise that those Aunties/Uncles of the same age as the ones working at Changi Airport are coming from the Other First World ?
They are travelling on their savings to visit Singapore, while our Airport Aunties/Uncles are washing the toilets and serving those Foreign Aunties and Uncles.
Is there something wrong with our Singapore being a member of the First World Community ?
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That's SO MYOPIC! For everyone Uncle and Auntie from overseas that can travel here, there must be 1000 or more times that of those that REMAIN back in their "first world" simply because they too are unable to afford it! You are comparing citizens who can afford to travel to those who cant! We make sure that THOSE who can spend, spend it here. For every bit of additional demand we have here, there is someone hired to do the job. Ask anyone would they rather have a job that pays little than no job at all because the pay is too little? Do you think there's no poor in other First world Countries? You cant see them until you go there. And you cannot go there until you are rich. And if you are rich, would you go to help the poor, the homeless of other First world countries when there are those you can help at your doorstep? It's the problem and choice of the rich individuals whether they want to help. Are you suggesting the government, whom you detest, to have a welfare system? Esthablish countries First World, are ALL having problems due to welfare but they CANNOT pull it out for fear of political losses. Are you willing to be taxed even more than now to help provide welfare to an unseen stranger with unknown intent? Would you gladly give money to the unemployed without knowing WHY they are unemployed in the first place? Have you read of the young british guy who have 1k pounds of welfare due to his unemployed and numerous children status ? Would you benefit such people?
Check this out http://www.ncpa.org/pi/welfare/wel46.htm
I'm really enjoying this debate with you! -
I agreed but there is also case where Sporean worked as taxi driver in NZ.Originally posted by sigal2k+:Have you guys ever wondered that SIA tickets are cheaper overseas so that the Airline will attract more Ang-mohs to fly SIA so that the company can earn more money?? SO that more Ang-mohs will come here to spend money? Old retired angmohs- may come here like it and bring their fortunes here too?
SIA is part our economy....Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles all rely on that. The more planes flying here = more usage = more jobs!
Which company dont work for Profit? Make it a dirty word if you want. I would make sure there are workers who earn $$$ too...
Oh wait, do you even notice that Airport Aunties and Uncles were there while you were flaming the company?
The other day I happened to talk to Sporean staying in US n he mentioned any people from HK travelled sprecially to US to work as waiter or waiteresses in
San Francisco's chinatown. Working hour ranged from eight to twelve hours.
Come to think of it, u seen local going to US to work as waiter or chef? -
I hope you are singaporeans
. Support mainly singapore's brands, products and services even they cost you more 
. Must be like japanese then your and my life can improve here.
Stop hurting singaporeans if you are singaporeans. 
-
Originally posted by sigal2k+:
Did my post blame the RICH for the predicament of the POOR, DIRTY and HUNGRY ?
Original post by Atobe
Why travel there when I am everywhere, and expressing the same opinion to all and sundry about the truth of the SINGAPORE EXPERIENCE ?
Without my contribution, the Singapore Government aka the Ruling Political Party is already doing a great job in making negative overseas publicity to the Singapore Political Image, except that the same is hidden from Singaporeans by clever propaganda
Response by sigal2k+ :
What's the TRUTH of the Singapore experience? All of us are poor, dirty and hungry. The elites are profiteering from the poor and we are squeezed dry by taxes? That we have not a single cent to spend and better our lives?
It is easy to always blame the rich that they keep the wealth for themselves. Heck, i'm poor myself but i dont say:" HUH? Why people get to live along bukit Timah, their Kids can Drive a car worth more than my salary? You know plainly that the money isnt the childrens!" It's not like Wealth is built overnight. If everyone can become a millionaire what's the value of money? You mean the elites get rich because the government fund them? Do you not accept the fact that all these "elites" have forefathers that were poor once?
Dont be saying that the "Ruling Party" is making a fool from ourselves. We at least show our stance if consistent! Which government doesnt make political errors? Would you rather support CSJ who runs to Australia to gain THEIR political support on our ineptness?
The Ruling Elite – not any Singaporean Elite – are certainly PROFITEERING from the poor - and those soon to be poor from the middle-income groups – by taxing Singaporeans from any and every creative angle.
Just look at the ERP along Orchard Road – when one enters Orchard Road at the CKTang entrance, our CashCard is deducted; further down Orchard Road at Dhoby Ghaut another ERP gantry will deduct your CashCard for traveling all the way down Orchard Road to Bras Basah. If you should make a return trip from downtown City Hall back to Sommerset Road, you will get hit by a return ERP gantry outside the YMCA vicinity.
When Mah Bow Tan was the Communications Minister, he spoke comforting words that Vehicle Tax will be back to Square ONE as in the 1970s-1980s rate when the ERP System is fully in place. Has Road Tax been reduced beyond FIFTY PERCENT after having been increased by over THREE HUNDRED PERCENT since the road tax charged in the 1970s ?
This is only a short description on FISCAL MEASURES imposed on vehicles and its usage that is allowing the Government to count its cash input each minute a Singaporean Car passes any ERP gantry. All these payments are on top of the C.O.E prices that are artificially fixed at a HIGH MINIMUM sum for bidding to start.
What about the other essential services that Singaporeans need and are all entirely dependent on the Government in providing, but which the Government has privatized by allowing “ PRIVATE “ companies to operate these services; and with these ‘PRIVATE’ companies being Government Linked Companies, with Paid-Up Capital provided by the Singapore Government.
Is the Singapore Government not making a fool of ourselves by claiming to be a member of the FIRST WORLD – when no one believe that Singapore is anywhere near to their Standards of Social Morales, Social Governance, Political Transparency, and the observation of the FULL Rights of Individual Citizens ?
Is it surprising that you have a stupendous ability to read more to a statement then what is actually written ?
Original Post by Atobe :
Yes, Malaysia has a Bumiputra Policy that was PUBLICLY MADE KNOWN, and which unfortunately discriminate the other ethnic groups in all spheres of their national life from its very inception.
In Singapore, although there are no such public policy that favor ANY ethnic group in particular, are you certain that such unseen under current of selective 'discrimination' do not exist in the Singapore way of doing things ?
In the Singapore way, do we need to be so explicit as the Malaysians ?
The Singaporean way is more sophisticatedly subtle, we use more 'ELITIST' way to 'filter out' those whom we see as 'doubtful'; and if they ever become an ELITE, we use the Language hurdle as a filter, and how many more other creative ways of discriminating besides using the HDB Ethnic Quota Allocation to disperse the political influence of a gathering of minority in a sea of the majority ?
In any case, what does it matter to you if I do or do not decide to join the Opposition ?
Why are you so agitated to my position ?
[quote]Response by sgal2k+ :
Are you telling me that just because the bumiputra policy is good because it's made the law? The policy itself is a FARCE and insult to non-muslims. What HUMAN RIGHT is there to declare one citizen should gain at the expense of others? Do you support the oppression of females simply because it's made legal?
Where have you learnt your skill in reading simple English ?
Did my response mention that the " bumiputra policy is good " ?
I am not sure if we are even approaching this topic with the same subject being discussed or debated.
So what if the policy itself is FARCE, or if it ‘insult to non-muslims’ ? Was Human Rights affected by the ‘bumiputra policy’ ?
What about the Human Rights of the Singapore ethnic minority – with their Rights restricted by the HDB Quota System to the place that they can stay, the buyers whom they can resell their HDB to ?Continuing response by sgal2k+ [/b]:
Will you accept the term ‘HYPOCRITICAL’ for your creative double standard in denouncing Malaysia’s ‘bumiputra policy’ but seem to accommodate that “It's one thing that it exists in the nation because it is inevitable but it's another if you declare and show as A NATION we approve it and spport it “ ?
Discrimination exist in all nations in all countries. Are you saying that because it exist, we are wrong? Can you prevent the existence of such discrimination by choice of each individual? What kind of government declares it's stance that we are discriminatory instead of stating we abhor it? It's one thing that it exists in the nation because it is inevitable but it's another if you declare and show as A NATION we approve it and spport it.
Why should ‘Discrimination’ be acceptable to you in one country because it is inevitable, but unacceptable when it is openly declared and supported by the Nation ?Continuing response by sgal2k+ [/b]:
You seem to be wonderfully skillful in confusing your mind with concepts that are creatively wound and rewound in different contortions to fit your own perverse interpretation of my statements.
As for language to be an "Elitist barrier" Its not official, it's the choice of those owners who are making an economic decision. If their products target a group whom speaks a certain language, why shouldnt Language be a criteria? There's no rule saying that a child MUST STUDY and ONLY study a language of his race. It's a choice that parents can actively choose. Is it any better that we insist that all Citizens must learn Chinese, English and your own mother tongue? Would that be a fair statement? Furthermore, are we stopping our call centres in India from growing because of language? If they speak English and well, they are equal in ability and better in terms of cost than a call centre here. It's not a langugage barrier but a reality. Each individual can make that difference to his life.
Do you not believe that Education is about the organization of the experiences and lessons in Life that is written into text to be read and remembered, and with exams being conducted to ensure that those experiences and lessons are well learnt ?
Who do you think have been assigned the responsibility to organize those experiences and lessons in Life, to write into text, and prepare the exam papers that will make simple experiences and lesson in Life into some complex text that taxes the learnersÂ’ memory in order to pass the exam hurdle to join a select group of Elites ?
Is it not a fact that all Elitists will jealously guard their exclusive status, and will limit their numbers so as to make their position even more rarefied in Singapore, so as to justify their claim that Talent is Short in Singapore ? -
Continuing Response by sgal2k+ [/b]:
Before you turn into an expert alarmist with your compressed history that is nothing more than a parrot like regurgitation of the well worked brainwashing propaganda for the weak minds to swallow, your contorted reasons will need to be broken again into their separate components.
As for the Ethinic Quota Allocation. Would you rather that Singapore be divided to where they live according to their race? What will it be like? The Chinese in the N and C; Malays in the E; Indians in the W; FT in the S? DO you think any individual will chose to move to a part of Singapore that is of a different race by themselves? Would an Indian try to find work in the other parts of Singapore? There would be even more segregation. Look at European Countries: the choice for them to live where they live has resulted in the Muslims being overlooked / ignored in France plans. A riot has resulted that cause loss of property. It is human nature to seek similar friends but not to live with strangers.
It's totally different from the British government letting the formation of Chinatown, Kampong Glam and Bras Basar. Why are there racial Riots and how did it take place? The Chinese invaded Kampong Glam and caused deaths! Would you like this sort of riot occuring on a national scale? Given the numbers of the Chinese, they will develop faster. Would this "betterment" of that race not create racial discontentment? Can you foresee the problems if An area of Singapore is better off than another base purely on race? What kind of result can you provide should there be a disagreement between races in terms of political/ legal ruling?
Do you think that the present system has allowed integration of Singaporeans is more effective today than FORTY YEARS ago ?
Has integration resulted in Singaporeans identifying themselves less as ethnic groups or has the ethnic identity been more emphasized today then FORTY YEARS ago ?
What was the cause of the riot in France – that resulted in loss of property ?
Was it religious, or human rights, or economics, or racial discrimination ?
Before you embarked on some hair brained speculation about the reasons for the Paris Riots that occurred in 2005, you should have made some research on this event before shooting your adrenalin into stratosphere with your wild speculation about racial riots.
What about the Racial Riots in Singapore during the 1960s ?
There were Chinese living in the largely Malay areas of Kampong Glam, and Changi-Geylang and they were offered secure shelter by their Malay neighbors amidst the mayhem that occurred. Similarly, the same was offered to the Malay minority living in the largely Chinese neighborhood.
The racial riots were between strangers towards strangers, and were instigated by strangers to Singapore, with their own agenda that was scripted by foreign interests.
The Inter-racial riots that occurred in the 1960s in Singapore was purely Political – with the intense emotions in the debate between the Singapore Ruling Political Party with the Federal Government; which spiraled out of control when certain politicians manipulated the weak and simple minded Singaporeans to follow their simplistic propaganda.
In the current Singapore scene, even with the HDB Quota in place – is development and social progress equally kept apace in all the Constituencies ?
Do we not have the lower income groups congregating in Red Hill or Bukit Merah – Ciruit Road-MacPherson area, compared to the exclusive Holland Road – Balmoral – Bukit Timah locales ?
Even within Toa Payoh one will find the poor hardship cases living in One or Two or Three-Room HDB units around Lorong 6 and 8, away from the more affluent Lorong 4 and Central.
With the present HDB quota system has the different Singapore ethnic groups become more integrated socially, culturally, or even politically ?
If it has, we would not have seen the recent vicious attacks between the youths of one ethnic group towards another.Response by sgal2k+ [/b]:
Have some patience, and be less in a hurry and you will allow the Tree to grow as its roots find all the underground waterholes, when the top soil is parched dry by the overpowering heat from the POWER OF ONE.
Why joining the opposition speaks volumes! It shows whether you are really interested in changing and bettering the lives of others around you or just bashing the government for whatever injustice you feel it being laid upon us. And the lack of credility of Opposition is also due to lack of talent! If you are so convince that your views are acceptable by the average Singaporean, the campaign WILL be a turning point. If you win, are you not on your first steps of creating a state that you so believe is much better?
I am of course very concern about your views! You seem to be keen on self-interests than that of everyone else in the picture!
Thank you for your concern and interests to my views posted, and perhaps when I am quite certain that my cupboard is cleared of all the skeletons, I may venture in a more visible public life.
Until then, allow some bristles to grow under your chin, so as to allow you to stroke the stubble as you ponder your position with each hurried statements which you make that visually makes no sense.
Can I believe in the contradictions that you constantly get yourself tangled with, in the many fanciful contorted statements made ?
Original Post by Atobe :
Either you are dumb, or you think that I am dumber ? .
Surely you have the capacity to learn from the experience of others, or perhaps the years of spoon feeding and over dependence on the POWER OF ONE has stopped your ability to judge independently by yourself ?
There are many alternative ways to exercise our Rights when those opportunities are not available to us. .
Be patient and wait on, you will learn how a tree grow to be able to withstand the worse storm.
Response by sgal2k+ :
Well, not standing up for yourself but waiting for the time to come? When will that time come? And why would it? Simply because there's someone else who initiates this new"time" to come! You would rather wait until someone else makes his stance against the government before you get vocal? The government has taught you to challenge only when others are doing so? If you are SO strongly against the governemental policy, challenge them! Write to the newspaper forums! You can choose to ignore the replies of offical people but you can read the opinions of other citizens in return to gauge whether there are others like minded like you. Which i believe there is. Are you waiting for the time of a revolution? Are you prepared to changed your life much differently from the way it is now? What happens if there is a change but not the way you think it should be? To be in charge of changes, you need to lead. Are you growing a forest to hold the storm at bay? Or are you proclaiming that you, one tree is all that matters?
Are you trying to impress your audience with your self-serving questions that are accompanied by your own ingenious responses ?
“ you can read the opinions of other citizens in return to gauge whether there are others like minded like you. Which i believe there is. “
Many thanks again for your contorted interests shown and the many useless suggestions that were unsolicited.
You are advised that your instigations are not as persuasive as your peers in this SgForum, and until you perfect your ability in appreciating the subtle nuances of each personÂ’s position, you can hardly qualify to be in any position to lead others with your opinions. -
continuation from above
Who do you think makes the Company grow ? Your statement seems to assume that an ABSTRACT COMPANY can function by itself and make all the profit that is declared.
Original Post by Atobe:
Yes, SIA is part of our company, but how much do the 'Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles' get from the work that they are doing ?
While SIA bring in the big spenders, and the Government Owned and Privately Owned Companies make the big bucks, what do Singaporeans get from their short term employment contracts, flexible wages that float differently from each calendar quarter, and cuts to our reduced flexible wages to a CPF that cannot be totally or usefully seen until we are near death.
Meanwhile, the Finance Ministry will reap the profits generated by SIA and all the other GLCs, and take control of the surplus from our taxes paid through GST and Income Tax, and control our locked up CPF for the purpose of using as Capital for the Foreign Adventures of Temasek and GIC.
Response by sgal2k+ :
Are you saying that because big companies get the big bucks we lose out? It's an economic decision. Of course each company will be be operating at cost. Those are called Non-profit Organisations and those serve a different service! Who will invest in a company that doesnt grow? If a company doesnt grow how will be be able to hire more people? You are blaming the companies for not sharing the profits but at the same time, by not sharing the profits now, it can be pumped into growth and ensure there are at least a portion of jobs that locals can be hired. You look as if one extra measly appointment for a citizen is nothing. It means that a person can feed his family! Its the little bits that count to make up a greater whole!
Does the Company grow by itself ?
What is the percentage of the profit MADE BY THE PEOPLE working in SIA, SATS, CIAS, and all at at Changi Airport has been distributed to the workers, to the key personnels, the shareholders, to the reserves, to tax, and transferred to the Finance Ministry onwards to GIC and Temasek ?
Do you believe that the average low wage worker will get the bulk of the profit that they have generated ?
While I have never state anywhere in this SgForum that the workers should be given any higher wage above the market rates, I have always advocated that lump sums hand-out paid to individual is ineffective, and it will be better that the lump sum be paid to those Public Institutions that provide the essential services to Singaporeans - so as to effectively lower their costs and help provide a cheaper service.
How much of the profit that is generated is pumped back into growth, and how much has been transferred to the Finance Ministry, whose annual surplus grow with each passing year, and with GIC and Temasek having bigger budget to embark on overseas Shopping Trips to buy up controversially priced mega-projects.
Meanwhile the costs of essential services to the Singapore Public continue to increase higher despite the surplus to the Finance Ministry.Response by sgal2k+ [/b]:
Are you sure that our small island is limited in land for a population of up to even 7 Million ?
As for CPF, that is the way Singaporeans have to buy their homes. Why do houses cost money? and why do they rise all the time? Our land is limited and corporations(local/government/foreign) all compete to turn this land into something more valuable and lucrative. We already have such a huge Debt problem amongst citizens because we spend more than we earn. It's unavoidable whether there's CPF.Would you die poor? Or at least have a paltry sum to sustain your remaining years.
Which person will REALLY save that much money to think of the future if not forced? It isnt any different had you have the full income and spending it all.
It is not as if the population continue to grow in geometric proportion and land is limited without any old building making way for new, or that land is so scarce that old building CANNOT be knocked down while new building cannot be built for lack of space.
If you look around, large tracts of empty land exist - even when large quantities of HDB flats remain unsold due to the over building in Sengkang, Hougang and Punggol .
As more and more older HDB estates are demolished and renewed with newer designed architectures, the newer HDB estates become less popular.
Even the recently cleared Outram Park HDB buildings have been cleared, and a wide open space can be seen that can allow four National stadiums to be build wall to wall.
The 'Scarcity of Land' ruse has been widely promoted to the simple and unthinking mind that are not involve or not expose to the reality, so as to justify the continuous increase in LAND COSTS to property developers that eventually make a bigger buck by passing such costs to Singapore Home Buyers.
How much of the CPF remains with the average Singaporean when he reaches retirement age of 70 years, when the bulk of the money is sunk into the Home ?
While the CPF money is used to pay for the homes, those dollars will soon find its way to the Finance Ministry, as the only way that the Government can repay the CPF money to Singaporeans is to find a way to take that money back when paid. That way is by means of a high property price.
The CPF is a failed system as it depends on an increasing population larger than the numbers of CPF account holders that are retiring.
In a shrinking population can the new contributors provide enough input money to generate the larger cash amount that is to be paid for the long held CPF account ?Response by sgal2k+ [/b]:
If TAX is not everything from income tax to GST - what do you suggest the word TAX should encompass ?
Stop saying taxes like it's a dirty word. TO you, tax is everything from income tax to GST. Income tax affects those who EARNS more than 1.5k per month. It is income bracket based. The main thing is that we ensure that the RICH stays here. The RICH are those who have mobility to move from country to country. We do not. If they are here, they spend money here. That goes to the fastfood restaurant staff, the petrol station staff, the cleaners.
You should take a detailed lesson in macro economics and public administration before you get embarrassed by the simplicity of your statements. -
continuation from above
Response by sgal2k+ [/b]:
Your argumentative reasoning is typical of the Ruling Political Party - who have been brainwashing the simple minded Singaporeans on this line.
If the nation does not have reserves that build year on year, the actualy amount of reserve per person decreases as inflation and larger population rise overtime. This reserve shows our Economic power and stability all in all is to attract more investments here to grow. So what if we dont have handouts from this monstrous sums of cash? It's human greed and we will not appreciate it any longer than until we have spent it. Then would we demand for more? When would we stop? Until this piggy bank is broken and empty?
Did anyone who ask for the Ruling Political Party to give us any handouts from the Surplus that is made ?
Singaporeans have been asking the Government to lower costs effectively - by lowering the cost of land sold (the selling price is controlled by URA), the unreasonable development charge imposed on developers (that come to millions), the lowering of costs to households (lower Utility Bills, Foreign Maid Levy, Child Care Allowance), lower transportation costs (when the transport companies are making obscene profit despite claims of fuel busting costs).
The SAME DOLLAR AMOUNT that is given as handout could have been paid to all those that provide the essential services to allow the average Singaporean to lower the burden that they are bearing with a lower wage, shorter work contract, and lower CPF.
What is the use of the Economy growing and attracting Foreign Investments that make use of our stability, make the profits and repatriate those profits back under a Tax Holiday Scheme ?
Yes, Singaporeans get employed for the low salary that attracted the Foreign Investments, but can the low salary received pay for all the high charges of essential services faced by Singaporeans ?Response by sgal2k+ [/b]:
Which other Third World Country DO NOT have this MINIMUM WAGE - which you call legal protectionism ?
You blame the government that Privately owned companies are paying low wages. If we set wage minimums, how would that affect our overall ecconomi activity? Companies will pull out to exploit other countries without such legal protectionism. It is still an acceptable wage in comparision to having nothing at all should these companies leave Singapore! I do not believe that it is fair to have such low wages especially fot manual labour but we are fish fry in the ocean. This is the same EVERYWHERE in the world. Or would you rather support the CAP programme in France?
Nearly all our neighbors providing some form of 'stable' economic environment are insisting on a MINIMUM WAGE for their workers, and the countries include Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam.
These Third World Government are protecting their Citizens from being EXPLOITED, and even in the FIRST WORLD Countries such as in the European Union countries, USA and UK, Scandinavian Countries - they also have a set minimum wage to ensure that there is a lesser need to depend on the stretched Social Welfare System.
Singapore has NO Social Welfare System, and yet we have NO MINIMUM WAGE to protect the Singapore Workers but instead the NTUC even will dictate to the Singapore Workers to accept FLEXI-WAGE that allow Companies to cut wages base on accounting principles that allow them to make provisions for future losses.
Yes for every ONE of those foreign Aunties and Uncles that can visit Singapore, there will be probably 1000 MORE that cannot afford to travel.
Original post by Atobe :
Is it not great that you remembered to show some concern to the Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles ?
Do you realise that these Changi Airport Aunties/Uncles must continue to work to support themselves in their old age ?
Did you not realise that those Aunties/Uncles of the same age as the ones working at Changi Airport are coming from the Other First World ?
They are travelling on their savings to visit Singapore, while our Airport Aunties/Uncles are washing the toilets and serving those Foreign Aunties and Uncles.
Is there something wrong with our Singapore being a member of the First World Community ?
Response by sgal2k+ :
That's SO MYOPIC! For everyone Uncle and Auntie from overseas that can travel here, there must be 1000 or more times that of those that REMAIN back in their "first world" simply because they too are unable to afford it! You are comparing citizens who can afford to travel to those who cant! We make sure that THOSE who can spend, spend it here. For every bit of additional demand we have here, there is someone hired to do the job. Ask anyone would they rather have a job that pays little than no job at all because the pay is too little? Do you think there's no poor in other First world Countries? You cant see them until you go there. And you cannot go there until you are rich. And if you are rich, would you go to help the poor, the homeless of other First world countries when there are those you can help at your doorstep? It's the problem and choice of the rich individuals whether they want to help. Are you suggesting the government, whom you detest, to have a welfare system? Esthablish countries First World, are ALL having problems due to welfare but they CANNOT pull it out for fear of political losses. Are you willing to be taxed even more than now to help provide welfare to an unseen stranger with unknown intent? Would you gladly give money to the unemployed without knowing WHY they are unemployed in the first place? Have you read of the young british guy who have 1k pounds of welfare due to his unemployed and numerous children status ? Would you benefit such people?
Check this out http://www.ncpa.org/pi/welfare/wel46.htm
I'm really enjoying this debate with you![/b]
Are we not suppose to be a member of the First World Community ?
With a controlled number of TWO MILLION in our population, how many of our Senior Citizens can afford to travel when compared to the same number of TWO MILLION from any foreign First World City - (for accuracy lets leave out the population of the entire country) ?
While our poor get a job that pays out little in wage, the entire amount get soaked up by our Government - who will gather the surplus into their Finance Ministry, for subsequent transfer to GIC and Temasek, who will spend our blood monies on their foreign adventures besides paying for their MILLION DOLLAR ANNUAL SALARY.
The poor in the First World will probably get a higher MINIMUM WAGE which is further supplemented by a Social Welfare Support service that is funded by the surplus accumulated by the Government, who do not embark on Foreign Shopping spree.
Why do you believe that we must be FURTHER TAXXED to pay for any kind of Social Welfare System to support the VERY POOR in our society ?
Are you so blind to see the surplusses that our Finance Ministry is reporting in the Year-on-Year Results ?
Where do you think those Annual Handouts are coming from that the Ruling Political Party is so FREELY giving out to Singaporeans ?
Do you not consider those as our BLOOD MONEY that is collected each time we spend our hard earned money for all the essential services that are provided by the State Controlled or State-Linked Enterprises ? -
To Atobe,
you have raised many interesting points that i will give my reply to. However, considering it's inappropriateness to be in this topic after such a long time, i wil post it in a new one later on once my computer stop giving me crashing problems
On another note, i hope that you reduce your level of personal attack on my being that is pretty evident in some of your replies and demeaning of my supposed ineptness to suit your intentions.
I apologise to you for my previous disrespect should i have had offended you on a personal level before. I hope that you will understand what i mean while debating your points against mine.
Regards. -
Hi Atobe,
Can you further elaborate these two statements as I do not quite understand them?
I am under the impression that we are responsible for contributing to our own CPF account.
The CPF is a failed system as it depends on an increasing population larger than the numbers of CPF account holders that are retiring.
In a shrinking population can the new contributors provide enough input money to generate the larger cash amount that is to be paid for the long held CPF account ? -
Hello sigal2k+,Originally posted by sigal2k+:To Atobe,
you have raised many interesting points that i will give my reply to. However, considering it's inappropriateness to be in this topic after such a long time, i wil post it in a new one later on once my computer stop giving me crashing problems
On another note, i hope that you reduce your level of personal attack on my being that is pretty evident in some of your replies and demeaning of my supposed ineptness to suit your intentions.
I apologise to you for my previous disrespect should i have had offended you on a personal level before. I hope that you will understand what i mean while debating your points against mine.
Regards.
There is no problem on my part whether you post a reply today, tomorrow, or never - and there is no personal intent in directing any forceful statements at you on a personal basis, but perhaps only towards the statements that you have made.
It is unfortunate that you have shown yourself to be like some others who demand high standards of evidence and facts from 'objectionists' like myself, you guys will have the audacity to not subject yourselves to the same standards of objectivity, correctness, and facts; and will even go to the extent of goading 'objectionists' to take a more pro-active positions beyond our present activist positions knowing full well the political climate that is presently unfavorable to any political activism beyond the printed words.
Your line of goading is similar to those who will go to the extreme of telling all 'objectionists' to migrate if we cannot tolerate the situation here - as if though such demeaning suggestions are of any help in developing any dialogue via the SgForums.
Each of us have our own time to bide, and who knows when events are seemingly right, more 'objectionists' to the present political system may surface and join existing political parties, or start a completely new one to join the political fray.
Until such times come along, it is best that if you expect others to respect your position and views, try to show others the same courtesy that you demand from others. -
The CPF was created for the purpose of Singaporeans taking responsibility to save a portion of their wages to seemingly benefit Singaporeans during their Old Age.Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:Hi Atobe,
Can you further elaborate these two statements as I do not quite understand them?
The CPF is a failed system as it depends on an increasing population larger than the numbers of CPF account holders that are retiring.
In a shrinking population can the new contributors provide enough input money to generate the larger cash amount that is to be paid for the long held CPF account ?
I am under the impression that we are responsible for contributing to our own CPF account.
The CPF was supposedly touted to be superior to the Pension Fund that was payable by the Employer, and was not the responsibility of the Employee.
When CPF was firt proposed there was a choice to be made between a national saving scheme such as the CPF in its present form, or a Social Insurance Scheme. However, the Ruling Political Party at that time had decided in favor of the CPF Savings Scheme as it provided a cheap source of funding for the Government to implement its vast infrastructure and housing program to benefit Singapore.
Since the CPF system pays a small interest that is compounded with the passing of each year, the accumulated sum will grow to quite a size over a period of twenty years or more.
With most of the CPF monies being tied up in infrastructural assets that are fixxed, the cash that is to be paid out to retirees withdrawing on their account will be dependent on the contributions of those NEW ENTRANTS into the CPF Scheme PLUS whatever returning source of profits from the application of the funds used from the CPF.
Can the CPF remain feasible in a Singapore Population that is declining annually, and can hardly replace the existing population that is ageing ?
With the investments of the CPF not guaranteed of any return, how is the CPF to be returned to the retiring CPF Account Holders ?
If CPF can meet its obligations - why are there so many disingenious schemes being created to thwart the CPF Account Holders from withdrawing the Full Amount that is due ?
The Withdrawal Age has been raised time and again, and with each change, the withdrawal amount has been reduced by a very significant amount.
Newer schemes such as Medisave and MediShield has resulted in further shrinkage occurring when funds from the main CPF Account is transferred to these two new schemes.
With the HDB homes priced at ever higher prices, the amount to be paid back to the CPF Account Holder is further reduced, as the bulk of the CPF Savings are soaked up by the Government on overpriced public housing that are built on land repossessed at a fraction of the selling price.
If CPF can meet its obligation, why is there a need to deplete the CPF Account Holder Funds with all these schemes ?
If the Government can give annual handouts to Singaporeans, why not use those annual handouts to pay for the Medishield and Medisave Schemes on a National Scale - which any Commercial Insurance Company will be only to happy to absorb such a big bulk of money that is in BILLIONS paid in a lump sum for the Insurance Premium of Singaporeans ? -
Sorry I don't follow you here Atobe.
Our CPF monies are being used by the government for whatever purposes, and presumably, some are channeled into investments. Of course it may well be the case that the government's investments yield a loss, but given the amount of monies available for them to play with, chances are they will make a profit instead. So in all likelihood, the interest payable on CPF is not likely to be a big issue?
I also don't understand why you say CPF monies are soaked up by the government when HDB flats are purchased. -
My apologies to fellow forumers for hijacking this threat to deliberate on CPF.
Hi Atobe,
I am not sure if I read the argument for CPF correctly. If you allow me to elaborate on the argument ofWhen CPF was firt proposed there was a choice to be made between a national saving scheme such as the CPF in its present form, or a Social Insurance Scheme. However, the Ruling Political Party at that time had decided in favor of the CPF Savings Scheme as it provided a cheap source of funding for the Government to implement its vast infrastructure and housing program to benefit Singapore.
The paragraphs suggest that our CPF monies are invested to fund infrastructure and housing program, which generates a small amount of interest that is insufficient to payout retirees; which in turm is supplemented from new monies deposited into CPF by new entrants. Hope I am not too far off the mark.
Since the CPF system pays a small interest that is compounded with the passing of each year, the accumulated sum will grow to quite a size over a period of twenty years or more.
With most of the CPF monies being tied up in infrastructural assets that are fixxed, the cash that is to be paid out to retirees withdrawing on their account will be dependent on the contributions of those NEW ENTRANTS into the CPF Scheme PLUS whatever returning source of profits from the application of the funds used from the CPF.
I understand that CPF board pays 2.5% interest on our normal accounts and 4% on special account (which generally receives the smallest amount of money). To meet these payouts, CPF board has to generate earnings that is more if not equal to them; else they will have to find ways to meet the shortfall or reduce the payout.
Today, SIBOR returns more than 3.5%. So from an investment point of view, if CPF board puts the monies to the banks, it will then generate 3.5%, making a simple profit of 1%.
Looking at it from a Government borrowing point of view, Singapore Government Bond yields 3.75%. So it is cheaper to borrow at 3.75% from investors than to pay 4% to CPF members. As such, I am not sure the argument of government needing to dip into CPF monies makes economic sense.
I am more incline to believe that CPF board is making more than 2.5% annually, as I believe many fund managers can beat the benchmark of 2.5% (I suspect, with much ease). In which case, I am glad, that CPF board allows certain amount of monies to be placed by its owners to fund managers for potentially a higher return.
Nonetheless, I find your knowledge of CPF usage interesting and like to read up more about it. May I ask where did you obtained the information from and if they are available over the internet? -
Hi Blue Dolphin,Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:My apologies to fellow forumers for hijacking this threat to deliberate on CPF.
Hi Atobe,
I am not sure if I read the argument for CPF correctly. If you allow me to elaborate on the argument of
When CPF was firt proposed there was a choice to be made between a national saving scheme such as the CPF in its present form, or a Social Insurance Scheme. However, the Ruling Political Party at that time had decided in favor of the CPF Savings Scheme as it provided a cheap source of funding for the Government to implement its vast infrastructure and housing program to benefit Singapore.
Since the CPF system pays a small interest that is compounded with the passing of each year, the accumulated sum will grow to quite a size over a period of twenty years or more.
With most of the CPF monies being tied up in infrastructural assets that are fixxed, the cash that is to be paid out to retirees withdrawing on their account will be dependent on the contributions of those NEW ENTRANTS into the CPF Scheme PLUS whatever returning source of profits from the application of the funds used from the CPF.
The paragraphs suggest that our CPF monies are invested to fund infrastructure and housing program, which generates a small amount of interest that is insufficient to payout retirees; which in turm is supplemented from new monies deposited into CPF by new entrants. Hope I am not too far off the mark.
I understand that CPF board pays 2.5% interest on our normal accounts and 4% on special account (which generally receives the smallest amount of money). To meet these payouts, CPF board has to generate earnings that is more if not equal to them; else they will have to find ways to meet the shortfall or reduce the payout.
Today, SIBOR returns more than 3.5%. So from an investment point of view, if CPF board puts the monies to the banks, it will then generate 3.5%, making a simple profit of 1%.
Looking at it from a Government borrowing point of view, Singapore Government Bond yields 3.75%. So it is cheaper to borrow at 3.75% from investors than to pay 4% to CPF members. As such, I am not sure the argument of government needing to dip into CPF monies makes economic sense.
I am more incline to believe that CPF board is making more than 2.5% annually, as I believe many fund managers can beat the benchmark of 2.5% (I suspect, with much ease). In which case, I am glad, that CPF board allows certain amount of monies to be placed by its owners to fund managers for potentially a higher return.
Nonetheless, I find your knowledge of CPF usage interesting and like to read up more about it. May I ask where did you obtained the information from and if they are available over the internet?
You will need to refer to several sites on CPF to filter out the information that is buried amongst the volumous amount of words, data and charts.
Two of the best articles ever written are from NUS - one from a Senior Lecturer who submitted his research titled : " Central Provident Fund in Singapore - A Capital Market Boost or a Drag ? " , which was included in one of the overview of Asian Financial Markets organised by the Asian Development Bank.
Since its inception, CPF was recognised by the Singapore Government as the quickest way to raise funds, as well as the cheapest manageable source to obtain the funds for national development.
Even with the introduction of Government Securities to obtain additional borrowings in the 1960s, it was noted that CPF was depended upon to take up the bulk of the Government bonds, followed by the Banks
If you will refer to the page marked as 63 (or 8 of 26 pages), it was reported that the CPF was holding up to 85.47 percent of the issued Singapore Government Securities in 1967 - (when SGS was introduced), and saw a minimal reduction to an amount of 71.57 percent in 1996.
In the current year, it is doubtful if the Singapore Government will reduce the CPF stake in long term bonds issued by the Singapore Government, despite the fact that current SIBOR rates are cheaper than the interest rates charged by the CPF - as you have suggested.
Unfortunately, I am not sure if I can accept your suggestion that the CPF can be allowed to make any profit on the loans taken up by the Government at the interest paid to CPF Account Holder.
Can we afford to dream that the Government will allow CPF to charge at any interest rate higher than the SIBOR rates ?
With most of the CPF funds needed to finance the development of infrastructure for Singapore, the cheapest source of funding will remain to be from the CPF accunt holder.
Can the CPF board make sufficient money from whatever 'left-over sums' that are remain for their fund management care - after the bulk has been transferred to the Government for "infrastructural development " ?
Other referenced reading material on this CPF subject are titled as:
" Retirement Financing in Singapore "
" Pension flaws emerge " -
Presuming that SIXTY PERCENT of the CPF monies are used by the Government for infrastructural development - roads, drainage, reservoir, utilities distribution - and the balance FORTY PERCENT are utilised in INVESTMENTS that carry risks - can there be enough profits being generated to pay for the interests that are compounded onto the Principal Sums ?Originally posted by Rexdriver:Sorry I don't follow you here Atobe.
Our CPF monies are being used by the government for whatever purposes, and presumably, some are channeled into investments. Of course it may well be the case that the government's investments yield a loss, but given the amount of monies available for them to play with, chances are they will make a profit instead. So in all likelihood, the interest payable on CPF is not likely to be a big issue?
Even if the utilisation ratio is reversed - which allow SIXTY PERCENT to be used in Investments with RISKS, and FORTY PERCENT for infrastructural development - can the profit element be of sufficient volume to cover for the parts of such investments that are loss due to the risks undertaken ?
Are the HDB selling prices realistic to the Heartlander Home Buyers - when land is possessed by the Government at BELOW MARKET RATE COMPENSATION to the previous property owners, construction materials are purchased or manufactured on a scale that should achieve below market costs as a result of the Economies of Scale, and the construction costs that are always based on the lowest competitive tender bids received ?
I also don't understand why you say CPF monies are soaked up by the government when HDB flats are purchased.
If the artificially high price of HDB flats are not purposefully fixxed to 'soak up' the larges amount of 'PAPER VALUED' CPF monies of CPF Account Holders - how many other ways should we look at it ?