Would you fight for Singapore if........
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What about guest workers? Are there a lot of these people on their shores?Originally posted by Fatum:they have compulsory military service too ...
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I'm not sure about that .... but I reckon that swedish companies would love to hire more foreign workers if not for protectionism ....Originally posted by iveco:What about guest workers? Are there a lot of these people on their shores?
you know the swedes have the highest MC rate in Europe ? ....
... go google about it ..... -
I will fight for a country if I have a chance to choose the government I want fairly. I will go with what the majority chooses even if it is not the one I want. But Gerrymandering, using state funds to buy votes, bankrupting opposition members and oppressing the newspapers will not buy my loyalty; in fact I will be so ashamed of a country with a government like that I will get out the minute I have enough money to.Originally posted by Calvin86:I wouldnt stake my life for a place where there is little difference between foreigners and locals. -
To Fatum:
I am in the UK and there is unhappiness about FT here too, as you pointed out. They are now making it a requirement for would-be immigrants to sit a 'Life in the UK' test, which includes questions such as
Almost 60m people live in the UK. By what factor do the native-born English outnumber their Scots or Welsh neighbours?
A: By nine to one
B: By seven to one
C: By six to one
The origins of our Parliament were in the early Middle Ages. In 1215 the great barons forced rights from a tyrannical King John". What is that document called?
A: The Mappa Mundi
B: The Magna Carta
C: The Bill of Rights
When did all 18-year-olds get the vote?
A: 1918
B: 1928
C: 1969
There are four national saints' days in the UK, one for each nation. Which order do they fall in the calendar?
A: St Andrews, St Patrick's, St David's and St George's
B: St David's, St Patrick's, St George's and St Andrews
C: St George's, St Patrick's, St Andrews and St David's
Frankly, I doubt if some members of the royal family, much less UK citizens, can pass the test. However, it does send the message that British citizenship is valuable and available only to a select group.
The British do not have to sacrifice two years of their lives for national service, yet they are raising the bar for citizens. Is it surprising that Singaporeans are unhappy that our citizenship comes so cheaply for others? -
I think my answer to this question, is another interesting question; WHY should I?Originally posted by Calvin86:Would you fight for Singapore if the Singapore Govt decides to increase to the population to 6-7 million?
I wouldnt stake my life for a place where there is little difference between foreigners and locals. Singapore is one of the few uniques places where it has a large foreign workforce and yet relies on a reservist army from citizens to defend it.
If the population increases to 6-7 million in future, i am not ashamed to say i would flee Singapore in times of war. Why should i defend the assets of foreigners?
http://www.singapore-window.org/sw06/060226st.htm -
eee.more foreigners use our resources only. i den wont fight lah.
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no point doing the survey lah, if give the form, majority of the citizens will say out of anger that they will run away becos of the system here in sg.
but giving that a war occurs, i believe most of us will defend our land to protect our love ones.
we may be giving up hope, yet this is afterall our home. -
What i mentioned above is ready for war's scenerio at which Mindef has awared of the enemies intention and activate all the NS man.Originally posted by grandeur:Before the war broke out i think Mindef will recall all the NS man first, they will report to thier respective camp and maybe not allowed to contact thier family and the outside world. Military police will be busying arresting those who did not comply with the activation. This people will just wait for order from the top for action. And maybe you won't see your family again if you are send for mission. And need not mention of covering your family.
There is another scenerio which is surprise attack's scenerio at which the enemies will cut off our communication destroying, roads, bridges, media centres, power stations. At this time many NS man will not be able to reach camp or are still trying to figure out what has happen, or badly delay to arrive in camp. -
Thanks OM, I think I'll pass the test ... perhaps I can become a Brit now ? ....Originally posted by oxford mushroom:To Fatum:
I am in the UK and there is unhappiness about FT here too, as you pointed out. They are now making it a requirement for would-be immigrants to sit a 'Life in the UK' test, which includes questions such as
Almost 60m people live in the UK. By what factor do the native-born English outnumber their Scots or Welsh neighbours?
A: By nine to one
B: By seven to one
C: By six to one
The origins of our Parliament were in the early Middle Ages. In 1215 the great barons forced rights from a tyrannical King John". What is that document called?
A: The Mappa Mundi
B: The Magna Carta
C: The Bill of Rights
When did all 18-year-olds get the vote?
A: 1918
B: 1928
C: 1969
There are four national saints' days in the UK, one for each nation. Which order do they fall in the calendar?
A: St Andrews, St Patrick's, St David's and St George's
B: St David's, St Patrick's, St George's and St Andrews
C: St George's, St Patrick's, St Andrews and St David's
Frankly, I doubt if some members of the royal family, much less UK citizens, can pass the test. However, it does send the message that British citizenship is valuable and available only to a select group.
The British do not have to sacrifice two years of their lives for national service, yet they are raising the bar for citizens. Is it surprising that Singaporeans are unhappy that our citizenship comes so cheaply for others?
Yes, of course, I understand there's this undercurrent of unhappiness over the "influx" of foreign talents/workers/immigrants/whatever into Singapore, I'm still a Singaporean too remember ? ... Once upon a time, I was "xenophobic" too ... while I'm here, I read about Brazillian footballers given citizenship and running off back to Brazil and laughed too, but then again, I realised that Singapore was not the only country doing something like that, remember the last olympics ? ... the gymnasts from Switzerland wearing chinese faces ? ... the Canadians born in China and the Bahamas ? ...
if someone says that he wants to run away cos Singapore is being over-run by the foreign influx, I hope he sees the irony of it all: if you feel this way towards the foreigners in Singapore, you'd expect the natives of the country you're going off to, to not feel this way ? to welcome you with open arms ? ... (actually, infact, many of them still do, a few racists aside, it says so much about Singaporeans, no ? ... but that's for another thread) ....
if it's global competition one is afraid of, then I'll have to say, too bad. Life in this global era is now more darwainian, economic boundaries are now erased, if you think by keeping out foreigners you can keep your job, that doesn't fly either, the jobs will either flow out through outsourcing, or through relocation anyways, in anycase, the people will keep coming, by hook or by crook, legally or illegally, anyways ... remember the Chinese cockle pickers in the UK ? this reality is inexorable, and something we all have to face up to it, the ultimate litmus test is, of course, to see if one is up to the challenge. C'mon, you and I, and the legions of Singaporean professionals and students, are giving other country's natives a good run for their money right now, no ? ... in some of the classes I'm attending, the chaps with black hairs outnumber the blondes, brunettes, and redheads combined together .... and my sister told me that Singaporeans are so numerous at certain places in perth you can hear hokkien being spoken, (courtesy of newly ORD'ed NS boys of course) ... My point ? you'd just have to suck it up, cos you cannot expect Singapore to be a nice little closed off pond forever, cos the deep blue sea is going to swallow us up, sooner or later ....
why did I make the above point ? ... cos in real terms, I have to admit I don't quite see how foreigners are being given the same privileges as Singaporeans ? ... they still pay higher school fees than us, they are still ineligible for certain scholarships, their children goes into different queues for primary school balloting. In contrast, I'm eligible for post grad subsidies here too, I get the very same free provincial health coverage as the native born, and I can compete for the same jobs (if they want me), as the natives ... a pretty raw deals for the natives here too, don't you think ? ... what more, I read somewhere in the UK for example, the shortage of nurses is so acute they'll pay the school fees of foreigners to study nursing, provided they'll work there after graduation, eh ? ... trampling in the face of the native brits, or facing the reality of shortages ? ...
On the other hand though, it is somewhat ironic that on one hand, you have people grumbling of the influx of foreigners, and on the other hand, you hear of foreign spouses of chaps being denied citizenship, even permanent residence, again and again ....
But in the end, the whole debate is about NS, really, isn't it ? .... -
Simply put, if you and I migrate to USA, or Sweden, our kids will either be conscripted, or we will find them fighting a war one day too.Originally posted by Fatum:Thanks OM, I think I'll pass the test ... perhaps I can become a Brit now ? ....
Yes, of course, I understand there's this undercurrent of unhappiness over the "influx" of foreign talents/workers/immigrants/whatever into Singapore, I'm still a Singaporean too remember ? ... Once upon a time, I was "xenophobic" too ... while I'm here, I read about Brazillian footballers given citizenship and running off back to Brazil and laughed too, but then again, I realised that Singapore was not the only country doing something like that, remember the last olympics ? ... the gymnasts from Switzerland wearing chinese faces ? ... the Canadians born in China and the Bahamas ? ...
if someone says that he wants to run away cos Singapore is being over-run by the foreign influx, I hope he sees the irony of it all: if you feel this way towards the foreigners in Singapore, you'd expect the natives of the country you're going off to, to not feel this way ? to welcome you with open arms ? ... (actually, infact, many of them still do, a few racists aside, it says so much about Singaporeans, no ? ... but that's for another thread) ....
if it's global competition one is afraid of, then I'll have to say, too bad. Life in this global era is now more darwainian, economic boundaries are now erased, if you think by keeping out foreigners you can keep your job, that doesn't fly either, the jobs will either flow out through outsourcing, or through relocation anyways, in anycase, the people will keep coming, by hook or by crook, legally or illegally, anyways ... remember the Chinese cockle pickers in the UK ? this reality is inexorable, and something we all have to face up to it, the ultimate litmus test is, of course, to see if one is up to the challenge. C'mon, you and I, and the legions of Singaporean professionals and students, are giving other country's natives a good run for their money right now, no ? ... in some of the classes I'm attending, the chaps with black hairs outnumber the blondes, brunettes, and redheads combined together .... and my sister told me that Singaporeans are so numerous at certain places in perth you can hear hokkien being spoken, (courtesy of newly ORD'ed NS boys of course) ... My point ? you'd just have to suck it up, cos you cannot expect Singapore to be a nice little closed off pond forever, cos the deep blue sea is going to swallow us up, sooner or later ....
why did I make the above point ? ... cos in real terms, I have to admit I don't quite see how foreigners are being given the same privileges as Singaporeans ? ... they still pay higher school fees than us, they are still ineligible for certain scholarships, their children goes into different queues for primary school balloting. In contrast, I'm eligible for post grad subsidies here too, I get the very same free provincial health coverage as the native born, and I can compete for the same jobs (if they want me), as the natives ... a pretty raw deals for the natives here too, don't you think ? ... what more, I read somewhere in the UK for example, the shortage of nurses is so acute they'll pay the school fees of foreigners to study nursing, provided they'll work there after graduation, eh ? ... trampling in the face of the native brits, or facing the reality of shortages ? ...
On the other hand though, it is somewhat ironic that on one hand, you have people grumbling of the influx of foreigners, and on the other hand, you hear of foreign spouses of chaps being denied citizenship, even permanent residence, again and again ....
But in the end, the whole debate is about NS, really, isn't it ? ....
It's an unavoidable reality around the world.
Darwinian is the right word to use, and people today will not fight for mere national boundaries, but for what they live for and their loved ones.
The main gripe is that setting the onrushing scene of globalisation aside, most locals gripe about having to serve NS at the expense of these new residents who are seen in a more vital light, perhaps more so than our fellow reservists.
A paradigm shift in both aspects is needed, and we are living in a borderless world no matter we like it or not.Stay relevant to the world, and you will find that NS is worth doing, because we will still be around.
IF we are not relevant anymore, it's a different story altogether. -
But in the end, the whole debate is about NS, really, isn't it ? ....
Indeed it is....I have a friend here from Israel where they have national service too. Compared to them, our NS is no big deal...at the very least, we don't have to face real bullets and suicide bombers. Apparently although national service there is compulsory, they have a fair amount of freedom as to the vocation in which they choose to serve. Both men and women have to serve, so there is true equality of the sexes. Exemption is granted for religious and medical reasons.
I asked him if they have NS dodgers as well and of course, they are. However, those who do not serve NS for various reasons (eg. overseas studies till they exceed the maximum age of conscription ala Melvin Tan) are looked upon with disdain in Israel. They will not be able to get a job in the civil service and in many private businesses. As a result, such NS dodgers are rare.
I guess they value their national servicemen more... -
well said, a fair and balanced view.Originally posted by Fatum:Thanks OM, I think I'll pass the test ... perhaps I can become a Brit now ? ....
Yes, of course, I understand there's this undercurrent of unhappiness over the "influx" of foreign talents/workers/immigrants/whatever into Singapore, I'm still a Singaporean too remember ? ... Once upon a time, I was "xenophobic" too ... while I'm here, I read about Brazillian footballers given citizenship and running off back to Brazil and laughed too, but then again, I realised that Singapore was not the only country doing something like that, remember the last olympics ? ... the gymnasts from Switzerland wearing chinese faces ? ... the Canadians born in China and the Bahamas ? ...
if someone says that he wants to run away cos Singapore is being over-run by the foreign influx, I hope he sees the irony of it all: if you feel this way towards the foreigners in Singapore, you'd expect the natives of the country you're going off to, to not feel this way ? to welcome you with open arms ? ... (actually, infact, many of them still do, a few racists aside, it says so much about Singaporeans, no ? ... but that's for another thread) ....
if it's global competition one is afraid of, then I'll have to say, too bad. Life in this global era is now more darwainian, economic boundaries are now erased, if you think by keeping out foreigners you can keep your job, that doesn't fly either, the jobs will either flow out through outsourcing, or through relocation anyways, in anycase, the people will keep coming, by hook or by crook, legally or illegally, anyways ... remember the Chinese cockle pickers in the UK ? this reality is inexorable, and something we all have to face up to it, the ultimate litmus test is, of course, to see if one is up to the challenge. C'mon, you and I, and the legions of Singaporean professionals and students, are giving other country's natives a good run for their money right now, no ? ... in some of the classes I'm attending, the chaps with black hairs outnumber the blondes, brunettes, and redheads combined together .... and my sister told me that Singaporeans are so numerous at certain places in perth you can hear hokkien being spoken, (courtesy of newly ORD'ed NS boys of course) ... My point ? you'd just have to suck it up, cos you cannot expect Singapore to be a nice little closed off pond forever, cos the deep blue sea is going to swallow us up, sooner or later ....
why did I make the above point ? ... cos in real terms, I have to admit I don't quite see how foreigners are being given the same privileges as Singaporeans ? ... they still pay higher school fees than us, they are still ineligible for certain scholarships, their children goes into different queues for primary school balloting. In contrast, I'm eligible for post grad subsidies here too, I get the very same free provincial health coverage as the native born, and I can compete for the same jobs (if they want me), as the natives ... a pretty raw deals for the natives here too, don't you think ? ... what more, I read somewhere in the UK for example, the shortage of nurses is so acute they'll pay the school fees of foreigners to study nursing, provided they'll work there after graduation, eh ? ... trampling in the face of the native brits, or facing the reality of shortages ? ...
On the other hand though, it is somewhat ironic that on one hand, you have people grumbling of the influx of foreigners, and on the other hand, you hear of foreign spouses of chaps being denied citizenship, even permanent residence, again and again ....
But in the end, the whole debate is about NS, really, isn't it ? .... -
I dont think I am the JFK type and I am certrainly influenced by the American.Originally posted by iveco:If the threadstarter says Sgdiehard is a JFK type, isn't he saying the latter is influenced by AMerica?
I am just an ordinary singaporean, not born here but have spent almost my entire life here, my family and friends are here and all my physical assets are here. Defending singapore is the same as defending everything I have. how the present government, the future government would run Singapore would affect the values of what I have but it does not eliminate what I have totally, singapore occupied by foreigners does!!
to me a country is like a home, I will defend my home no matter how I dislike the way things are done at home. I was born into my family, din't bring anything when I came.
watch the movies "saving private ryan", "black hawk down", "tears of the sun" just to name a few? I wonder what question would Calvin86 ask if he has to risk his life to save another, to fight somebody else war?? I guess there is only one answer that will satisfy him, "fight any war you like, as long as he does not have to fight."
there is never an answer to such question, "would you fight for Singapore if....ministers continue to draw high salary.....costs of living continues to be high....pap continue to run the country.....there continues to be a lack of transparency in the way our reserves are managed......?"
I thought the only sensible response to such question is what this Calvin86 has to contribute to our country, like he were a key player in the defence of singapore (without him the SAF would collapes at the sight of an enemy).
Now he has to ask another 50 other guys, ....hmm....in the meantime, I believe when he receives the order to report back to camp, he would lan lan.... report for duty sir!
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I say fight... Our life will be more miserable if we lose the war.
thats assuming you survive the war... -
Calvin86 has a very skewed view of live. But it is unavoidable that some boys like him grow up in our society. With our education system, everyone from a hokkien beng to an overseas scholar has their own opinion and their own option to choose to do what they want and say what they want.
They (those who think of running away) take things for so GRANTED!!!!
If you think why the US Resevists get paid so much? Cause they are REALLY Ops ready. Who do you think are fighting in Iraq/Afghanistan? They are nt regulars but all reservist! Would you rather be in that kind of situation Mr calvin86?
"I solemly swear i will defend the constitution of USA....."
"Good that's our boy, now grab that kit and take the next flight to Baghdad! Do i hear a yes, SIR???"
What other country in our part of the world actually has so vibrant an economy, so safe a neighbourhood and yet so stable a political / global relationship that civil / international war is but a small item on our mind?
You take for granted Terrorist bombings is something you read in the newspapers and that you CAN read.
You take for granted your school is within 1 hours travelling at the most, that You have drinkable tap water, that you have a blackout once every few years.
You think Shopping Centers, Supermarkets, 7 - Eleven and fastfoods restaurants grow from seeds?!?
You take for granted that you can go to primary school then secondary school then tietiary education then more and more.
You take for granted that you have AIRCON, Internet and computer to spew such ungrateful rubbish?!! The government provides all these and the average Joe can actually afford at least most of these and can provide his/her CHILDREN with these same comfort and you ask what the country has to offer you?
NS hasnt given you the balls to fight for that toilet bowl you sit on everyday yet?
Would you prefer to be a peasant in China facing droughts/storms/landgrabs?
Would you rather be an Israeli where NS is a real life and death situation?
Would you instead choose to live in Africa where water is worth more than your mp3 player/handphone?
Or do you whine that This country is better this way and this other country is better than us that way.
I sorry to sound so horrid but you seem to be unable to appreciate what you already have. And running away? Ha, what makes you think your new country will trust you?
Once a traitor, It STICKS on YOUR FOREHEAD.
And as for those others who say FT takes away our jobs. I say WE work hard to take those jobs back from them. Which person actually needs that kind of money to live comfortably anyway? If everyone does then all of us are paupers! All Men are greedy to an extend and would appreciate a better life than what we have now. If you ask me will i pick up a job that pays me 10k a month? Who wouldnt if they know they can do it? Have what you can. Try for what you can have to earn more. But do not borrow more money than you can earn!
The government isnt going to hand us our golden rice bowl. If you want THAT kind of government turn Muslim and go to our neighbour in the North. They have a Bumiputra policy.
Of course all i have written are but mere words of a citizen who has every intend to protect and defend what good life we have. I cant change your perception of how nothing has benefited your life so far living on our small little red dot. You can continue sitting in a taxi and go home safely after midnight and take that Lift up to your floor and go home and sleep on a spring mattress to sleep. Oh wait before that, brush your teeth! Switch off the lights(do you?) and enjoy the peaceful wind from the window or fan (with the occasional speedster going turbo at the street below). Swat at a mosquito or two thinking of them as itchy and painful buggers than bringings of malaria/dengue/yellow fever. You can continue on your life ignoring the neighbourly Ah ma carrying a heavy load going up the staircase too. Cause you arent worth the attention either.
Good Luck my (not) friend. Cause you will need alot of it.
Let the flaming of my speech begin. I will try to reply. -
Does all singaporean know the followings ?
1. Singapore PR do not get to vote and enjoy much less benifit even they pay higher tax to Singapore as there were much less tax relief for them?
2. All second generation PR need to serve Singapore NS but do not have the right to vote for Election.
3. Even though Second generation PR need to Serve Singapore NS but they do get any extra benefits . They can still only buy resale HDB flats , not allowed to vote if there will be an upgrade in the HDB flat that he owns. Worse , he will not even get any government subsidies for the flat upgrade proposed by the HDB and need to pay thoundsand of dollars for the upgrade when it only cost a few hundred to a Singaporean.
4. Second generation PR also do not get cheap loan from HDB to buy the resale flat.
With all this above and maybe more if you are a Second generation PR, would you not question the need for NS when you are still being treated as a foreigner.
of the 4.2 million population in Singapore there are about 1 million Foreigners and PRs . All of them contributed income tax to Singapore government.
All the taxes will be use to subsidise Singaporean in term of medical , HDB and development of Singapore.
Think about it. -
You forget that the vote has no intrinsic value in Singapore as of yet.Originally posted by judge&jury:Does all singaporean know the followings ?
1. Singapore PR do not get to vote and enjoy much less benifit even they pay higher tax to Singapore as there were much less tax relief for them?
2. All second generation PR need to serve Singapore NS but do not have the right to vote for Election.
3. Even though Second generation PR need to Serve Singapore NS but they do get any extra benefits . They can still only buy resale HDB flats , not allowed to vote if there will be an upgrade in the HDB flat that he owns. Worse , he will not even get any government subsidies for the flat upgrade proposed by the HDB and need to pay thoundsand of dollars for the upgrade when it only cost a few hundred to a Singaporean.
4. Second generation PR also do not get cheap loan from HDB to buy the resale flat.
With all this above and maybe more if you are a Second generation PR, would you not question the need for NS when you are still being treated as a foreigner.
of the 4.2 million population in Singapore there are about 1 million Foreigners and PRs . All of them contributed income tax to Singapore government.
All the taxes will be use to subsidise Singaporean in term of medical , HDB and development of Singapore.
Think about it.
Upgrading?Those who are not the typical kiasu Singaporean won't vote for it anyway.I did not vote for my Lift Upgrading Programme.
2nd generation PR usually gains their citizenship after NS, demograhics have shown most of them do not choose to retain their home nationality.So your argument is moot for the majority. -
Quote: From LaserLordz:
You forget that the vote has no intrinsic value in Singapore as of yet.
Upgrading?Those who are not the typical kiasu Singaporean won't vote for it anyway.I did not vote for my Lift Upgrading Programme.
2nd generation PR usually gains their citizenship after NS, demograhics have shown most of them do not choose to retain their home nationality.So your argument is moot for the majority.
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It is a typical habit, including myself, to think: until it benefits me it benefits nothing and it doesnt matter. If we do not make a big hoo-ha each election, what is the value of the election going to be in the future? By not reacting to it we are pushing it's value lower. That makes less sense. Stop waiting!
And for upgrading....it's not only Kiasu Singaporeans. Blocks that are in need of upgrading are usually some years old. The residences might be older and NEED the lift. Just because you are able-bodied now does mean all your neighbours are like you! If there is but one Ah ma in my block i wil vote for the life upgrading. You never know when something bad might happen and the lift that you refused earlier may make the difference.
2nd generation Pr Can choose to serve NS or not. They can retain their original citizenship but of course pay the price of being a foreigner here. NS lability only affects citizens. -
Did you know that those living in opposition wards are denied lift upgrading? What Lazerlords is doing is showing solidarity with those residents.Originally posted by sigal2k+:It is a typical habit, including myself, to think: until it benefits me it benefits nothing and it doesnt matter. If we do not make a big hoo-ha each election, what is the value of the election going to be in the future? By not reacting to it we are pushing it's value lower. That makes less sense. Stop waiting!
And for upgrading....it's not only Kiasu Singaporeans. Blocks that are in need of upgrading are usually some years old. The residences might be older and NEED the lift. Just because you are able-bodied now does mean all your neighbours are like you! If there is but one Ah ma in my block i wil vote for the life upgrading. You never know when something bad might happen and the lift that you refused earlier may make the difference.
2nd generation Pr Can choose to serve NS or not. They can retain their original citizenship but of course pay the price of being a foreigner here. NS lability only affects citizens. -
Well, you would rather even more people suffer and show support for those who dont get it. You shouldnt do that either. Ah ma in Potong Pasir cannot have lift so Ah ma living upstairs cannot have lift either? It doesnt make sense. Help whoever you can first then seek more help for those you yourself cant. It's one thing to have a protest against lack of lifts in oppostion wards but its another to deny your neighbour of the opporunity too.
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2nd generation PR cannot choose not to serve NS unless thay give up their PR.Originally posted by sigal2k+:Quote: From LaserLordz:
You forget that the vote has no intrinsic value in Singapore as of yet.
Upgrading?Those who are not the typical kiasu Singaporean won't vote for it anyway.I did not vote for my Lift Upgrading Programme.
2nd generation PR usually gains their citizenship after NS, demograhics have shown most of them do not choose to retain their home nationality.So your argument is moot for the majority.
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It is a typical habit, including myself, to think: until it benefits me it benefits nothing and it doesnt matter. If we do not make a big hoo-ha each election, what is the value of the election going to be in the future? By not reacting to it we are pushing it's value lower. That makes less sense. Stop waiting!
And for upgrading....it's not only Kiasu Singaporeans. Blocks that are in need of upgrading are usually some years old. The residences might be older and NEED the lift. Just because you are able-bodied now does mean all your neighbours are like you! If there is but one Ah ma in my block i wil vote for the life upgrading. You never know when something bad might happen and the lift that you refused earlier may make the difference.
2nd generation Pr Can choose to serve NS or not. They can retain their original citizenship but of course pay the price of being a foreigner here. NS lability only affects citizens. -
That's what i mean. They can choose to give up their PR. They have a choice as they are likely a citizen of the country of his parents. Compared to us...we lose our citizenship...which is worst lan lan have to serve.
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If they do not want to serve NS they should bloody well give up their PROriginally posted by judge&jury:2nd generation PR cannot choose not to serve NS unless thay give up their PR. -
oh so I'm a criminal for deciding I do not need the lift?Originally posted by sigal2k+:Quote: From LaserLordz:
You forget that the vote has no intrinsic value in Singapore as of yet.
Upgrading?Those who are not the typical kiasu Singaporean won't vote for it anyway.I did not vote for my Lift Upgrading Programme.
2nd generation PR usually gains their citizenship after NS, demograhics have shown most of them do not choose to retain their home nationality.So your argument is moot for the majority.
------------
It is a typical habit, including myself, to think: until it benefits me it benefits nothing and it doesnt matter. If we do not make a big hoo-ha each election, what is the value of the election going to be in the future? By not reacting to it we are pushing it's value lower. That makes less sense. Stop waiting!
And for upgrading....it's not only Kiasu Singaporeans. Blocks that are in need of upgrading are usually some years old. The residences might be older and NEED the lift. Just because you are able-bodied now does mean all your neighbours are like you! If there is but one Ah ma in my block i wil vote for the life upgrading. You never know when something bad might happen and the lift that you refused earlier may make the difference.
2nd generation Pr Can choose to serve NS or not. They can retain their original citizenship but of course pay the price of being a foreigner here. NS lability only affects citizens.
I believe that upgrading of public housing should be paid for by the government.PUBLIC.Get them some dictionaries while they're at it.No money?Stop paying these ministers salaries that are way over the top. -
can they give it up before they turn 21?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:If they do not want to serve NS they should bloody well give up their PR If not, NS has caught them already.