Opposition candidates disappointing
-
it's easier to say go find credible candidates.. past experiences have shown how vindictive the pap has been, helped in no small part by the media. who is to say pap candidates are all credible, isn't one currently on trial for securities fraud?
alternatives are crucial for singapore. hypothetically if right now the pap were to suddenly vanished, the country would collasped because the civil service, military and all things working are tied closely not to the government, but rather the party. we cannot let that happen. who is to say the future crop of pap politicians can uphold the supposed moral values. checks and balances mean nothing the moment you get a corrupt head.
take the grc as example. i fully support it when it was first introduce to maintain minority participation in politics. however, when it became a tool to shoo-in cronies, it stopped serving its intended purpose. if for some reason the leadership of the party becomes corrupt, then it is almost impossible for singaporeans to vote them out given the current manipulation. -
couldn't agree with you better.Originally posted by countdracula:take the grc as example. i fully support it when it was first introduce to maintain minority participation in politics. however, when it became a tool to shoo-in cronies, it stopped serving its intended purpose. if for some reason the leadership of the party becomes corrupt, then it is almost impossible for singaporeans to vote them out given the current manipulation.
-
Unfortunately, our 3rd world politics has made us believe that paper qualifications mean more than drive and passion.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:I was getting ready to vote for the opposition for the next coming GE. However, after looking at today's paper, I'm not so convinced that the opposition has provide a viable alternative to the PAP.
I mean, their candidates are really weak. There's a 28 year old system administrator standing for a single seat ward? I've nothing against SA and young person. I especially do not doubt his passion for the country but frankly, people need someone they can look up to for leadership and I doubt is he is credible enough.
The East Coast GRC candidates are totally disappointing... I think the opposition needs to do a few things...
1) For SDP, they need to get rid of CSJ. He's a serious liability.
2) Seek out potential members from the private and professional sector instead of waiting for someone to volunteer
For the GE, I was following on the Thailand election and I think their system is really cool... a few seats are allocated for parliment that is not contested. Citizen then get to vote for 2 things... their MP of choice and their government of choice. The winning government then gets the allocated seats for cabinet appoint. Still, I doubt if the PAP would allow such a thing.
BTW... whatever happen to the volunteer thingy that was going on earlier in this forum. Someone wanted to start a group of volunteer that would take no/little pay to servce Singapore.
If the colombo scholars and top-rung non-aligned citizens don't wish to stand up and be counted, then learn to respect the 2nd tier group of people who do.
In fact, they should not be looked upon as 2nd rate anymore. These are the people who walk the walk and don't simply talk the talk. That should speak volumes of their characters.
I have no doubt the Ruling party will attack their credentials as they always have. It is up to the people to be the judge and for the challengers to stand up to scrutiny and not get into emotional oubursts. -
CSJ is hopeless. I saw him in foreign news programme selling down Singapore and talking rubbish. He called himself the leading opposition in Singapore. He painted very bad pictures about us to the western countries. Totally hopeless and untrustworthy.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:I was getting ready to vote for the opposition for the next coming GE. However, after looking at today's paper, I'm not so convinced that the opposition has provide a viable alternative to the PAP.
I mean, their candidates are really weak. There's a 28 year old system administrator standing for a single seat ward? I've nothing against SA and young person. I especially do not doubt his passion for the country but frankly, people need someone they can look up to for leadership and I doubt is he is credible enough.
The East Coast GRC candidates are totally disappointing... I think the opposition needs to do a few things...
1) For SDP, they need to get rid of CSJ. He's a serious liability.
2) Seek out potential members from the private and professional sector instead of waiting for someone to volunteer
For the GE, I was following on the Thailand election and I think their system is really cool... a few seats are allocated for parliment that is not contested. Citizen then get to vote for 2 things... their MP of choice and their government of choice. The winning government then gets the allocated seats for cabinet appoint. Still, I doubt if the PAP would allow such a thing.
BTW... whatever happen to the volunteer thingy that was going on earlier in this forum. Someone wanted to start a group of volunteer that would take no/little pay to servce Singapore. -
Originally posted by countdracula:
why would you even classify the opposition candidates as disappointing? fact is that they stood up to be counted and with their own money. next, they are nor cowards riding on the coat-tails of other people. does anyone really know enough of pap candidates?
i'm alright with them actually but as you can see, anonymous is disappointed and he is not alone. many of my friends complain hell lot about the govt but when it comes to voting, they will not vote for the opposition simply because they lack credentials. that's the situation now. can you convince them otherwise? i did ask my friends whether they know enough about PAP candidates? truth is, they don't but does it matter? PAP itself is the brand that they are voting for.
singapore needs alternative voices to represent the people. it is good for our future othewise you get apathy and left unchecked this could turn into a dictatorship. i would rather have a monkey to rattle the cages a little than just having compliant lackeys.
this is the same thing i've been saying. but apparently not many people share the same sentiments. Ling How Doong didn't survive one term. why? because he looks like a butcher and speaks with no flair. from what i can gather, the younger generation has more faith in the PAP than the older generation and as the latter passes on, we're gonna have an overwhelmingly pro-PAP electorate that would make it extra difficult for the opposition to turn the tables unless they can re-invent themselves ... -
I don't know which bunch of youths and young Singaporeans you hang out with, but in my circle, we are definitely not buying the wayang show.Originally posted by snow leopard:
Simply put, we are not amused and not convinced.We look long-term and are not bound by cheap tricks and bread-and-buttter promises or issues. -
This is the unfortunate consequence of FORTY YEARS of PAP rule.Originally posted by shade343:How come nowadays no one value the price of their property? No PAP means no value in your property.
Personal views formed from PAP Propaganda.
Have you ever considered that without the proper support of ORDINARY Singaporeans to the PAP policies, can Singapore be what it is today ?
Is the progress of Singapore over the last FORTY YEARS created by the PAP, or was it the hard work of our parents and those before us ?
What about the next FORTY YEARS ?
Will our contributions count for nothing - but the future success is due to PAP policies only ? -
Originally posted by exkiwi:
Selling down Singapore and Singaporeans - or selling down the Ruling Political Party, exposing its policies of cheating Singaporeans of its Political Rights, exposing its monopoly of all economic and political activities at the expense of all other alternative voices - private or Opposition Parties ?
CSJ is hopeless. I saw him in foreign news programme selling down Singapore and talking rubbish. He called himself the leading opposition in Singapore. He painted very bad pictures about us to the western countries. Totally hopeless and untrustworthy.
Let us be clear of the two scenarios - painting a bad picture of the Singapore Government made up entirely by the domineering monopolistic Ruling Political Party, or a bad picture of ordinary Singaporeans, the Singapore heartlanders, the Singaporean Workers ?
With the total monopolistic control of the Singapore Media, CSJ and SDP has no choice but to depend on foreign media and the world wide web, which are beyond the control of the Singapore Government aka the Ruling Political Party.
One should give credit to CSJ for his perseverence in the face of the strong forces that have been mobilised to cut him down.
The stronger the force being shown towards CSJ, one can only assume that he is proving to be a credible threat to the Ruling Political Party.
The seemingly recklessness of CSJ seems to be quite similar to the political style of JBJ - in that both have continuously banged themselves against the political walls erected by the Ruling Political Party.
Was it not the same treatment being dished out by LKY to JBJ, with JBJ being given the worst name calling in the English Language by LKY ?
Yet, after nearly THIRTY YEARS in politics, it took LHL to acknowledge the respect that should be given to JBJ for his dogged perseverence and loyalty towards Singapore.
Should we expect someone from the Ruling Political Party show CSJ some respect - and also shower similar admiration and praises to CSJ - in about another FORTY YEARS into the Future ? -
I am pretty neutral.
However, when one critize the "quality" of opposition candidates, do bear in mind that despite the "lack of quality", they still managed to garner more then 30% of the voters.
This seems to point that the majority of singaporeans wanted to see more opposition MPs. -
Not by twisting facts and self-proclaim representation of Singaporeans view in the expense of Singapore economy.Originally posted by Atobe:With the total monopolistic control of the Singapore Media, CSJ and SDP has no choice but to depend on foreign media and the world wide web, which are beyond the control of the Singapore Government aka the Ruling Political Party.
CSJ is not even close.Originally posted by Atobe:Yet, after nearly THIRTY YEARS in politics, it took LHL to acknowledge the respect that should be given to JBJ for his dogged perseverence and loyalty towards Singapore.
Should we expect someone from the Ruling Political Party show CSJ some respect - and also shower similar admiration and praises to CSJ - in about another FORTY YEARS into the Future ? -
Totally agree with this observation. As I've stated in my last posting, people vote for the opposition for 2 reason;Originally posted by spencer99:I am pretty neutral.
However, when one critize the "quality" of opposition candidates, do bear in mind that despite the "lack of quality", they still managed to garner more then 30% of the voters.
This seems to point that the majority of singaporeans wanted to see more opposition MPs.
1) They think that the opposition can do a good job despite their lack of credentials (as evident in this thread).
2) They are simply too fed up with PAP that they'll vote for anyone else (like me).
Imagine now that you have a candidate who (for example) is a self-made man who fought against poverty to become a businessman, politically active, runs a successful company that actively pushes for employee benefits and is a philanthropist.
What do you think the opposition success rate is, compared to a 28 year old passionate system administrator who probably couldn't get a job as a IT manager because of his lack of management experience?
Many of my friends feels the same way. We want alternative voice in the government but as voters, we have the social responsibility to vote consciencely for the good of Singapore as a whole. We would rather vote null then to vote someone who probably don't understand the fundamentals of economical policies.
You can tell us otherwise but the fact remains that we do not know these people and there's absolutely nothing in what little we know of them to convince us otherwise that they are capable.
Give us a viable option and I guarantee you our vote to the opposition. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
There's a big difference between being a respectable politican and a hooligan. Do you want our parlimentary session to be like those of Taiwan or Korea? What would other countries think of Singapore when you have a politican that lies blatantly?
Selling down Singapore and Singaporeans - or selling down the Ruling Political Party, exposing its policies of cheating Singaporeans of its Political Rights, exposing its monopoly of all economic and political activities at the expense of all other alternative voices - private or Opposition Parties ?
Let us be clear of the two scenarios - painting a bad picture of the [b]Singapore Government made up entirely by the domineering monopolistic Ruling Political Party, or a bad picture of ordinary Singaporeans, the Singapore heartlanders, the Singaporean Workers ?
[/b]
For his own political gain, he supports the sabotaging of Singapore's economy, join the ranks of student mob to insult the head of state of HIS OWN country? Are you telling me that there is no other civilize way for his to display his political views?
Any political party who supports CSJ in his doing cannot be serious about Singapore. In fact, anyone who support CSJ cannot be serious about Singapore.
A crediable politican needs to be able to carry himself appropriately first. He needs to be able to view issues objectively and ethically.
Talk about nepotism in PAP. If CSJ's sister is not in his party, do you think the party will continue to support him in his mad pursue for the destruction of PAP even if Singapore goes down with it?? Or does SDP really think whatever CSJ doing is absolutely for the good of Singapore?
If the latter is true, then I seriously doubt if SDP can garner much votes this GE -
You think people overseas have a good impression of a country if the country win election by cheating even though it might be legal cheating?Originally posted by anonymouscoward:There's a big difference between being a respectable politican and a hooligan. Do you want our parlimentary session to be like those of Taiwan or Korea? What would other countries think of Singapore when you have a politican that lies blatantly?
For his own political gain, he supports the sabotaging of Singapore's economy, join the ranks of student mob to insult the head of state of HIS OWN country? Are you telling me that there is no other civilize way for his to display his political views?
Any political party who supports CSJ in his doing cannot be serious about Singapore. In fact, anyone who support CSJ cannot be serious about Singapore.
A crediable politican needs to be able to carry himself appropriately first. He needs to be able to view issues objectively and ethically.
Talk about nepotism in PAP. If CSJ's sister is not in his party, do you think the party will continue to support him in his mad pursue for the destruction of PAP even if Singapore goes down with it?? Or does SDP really think whatever CSJ doing is absolutely for the good of Singapore?
If the latter is true, then I seriously doubt if SDP can garner much votes this GE
Do you think that people overseas will have a good impression of a country that supresses the press and the media instead of defending themselves against what the press and media complains about?
Some countries are making a big fool of themselves but their own local people have been so brainwashed that they do not see it. -
You think foreigners even care about how a political party wins election whether by cheating or not? You think the impression of a country is formed by what the government does during their GE? You think that foreign investment, trade agreements, treaties etc will simply just fall into place as long the the GE is won fairly??? How naive and narrow minded.Originally posted by casino_king:You think people overseas have a good impression of a country if the country win election by cheating even though it might be legal cheating?
Do you think that people overseas will have a good impression of a country that supresses the press and the media instead of defending themselves against what the press and media complains about?
Some countries are making a big fool of themselves but their own local people have been so brainwashed that they do not see it.
The Taiwanese voted for Chen Shui Bian fairly and got him the presidency. Let's forget about how he manipulated the last GE but you think people will respect his country with him acting like a clown? Would you want him to represent you or your country? How about CSJ?
You think that Singaporeans are not aware of what the government is doing? You think that you're the only handful of people who are not blinded nor brainwashed? You think too highly of yourself.
Thanks to the current government, I had a good education that taught me to be politically aware of politics, foreign and current affairs. I learn economics and history that taught me not to take things we have today for granted. From the Internet, countries I've travelled to and people I've spoken, I've learned what a good government and a bad government can do.
In the past, the US government also used the shifting of electorial boundaries to guarantee their win. The pased a law a long time ago to make sure that this doesn't happen again. We know what our government is doing is unfair and unjust. Everyone overseas knows but does that stop trade or investment?
We know what the government is doing but we are objective enough to look at all its merits and flaws. Despite what the government does, one cannot deny that it's policy in the past has work and has brought stability and wealth to Singapore.
Some people can want the opposition to win so badly that they fail to see the larger picture. Let me re-emphasize that as citizens,
we have the moral and social obligation to vote for what is best for the country
You want to vote for the opposition. Fine! But spare a thought for what your vote will do for yourself, your neighbour and your children's future.
You know what? I will not vote for the opposition if I do get the chance. Looking at the mob that's been following them, I really doubt if they'll bring any good to Singapore. -
Originally posted by anonymouscoward:
From your post it can be seen that you are just a selfish frog in a hole. You are willing to defend dishonorable conduct. You call yourself educated?
You think foreigners even care about how a political party wins election whether by cheating or not? You think the impression of a country is formed by what the government does during their GE? You think that foreign investment, trade agreements, treaties etc will simply just fall into place as long the the GE is won fairly??? How naive and narrow minded.
The Taiwanese voted for Chen Shui Bian fairly and got him the presidency. Let's forget about how he manipulated the last GE but you think people will respect his country with him acting like a clown? Would you want him to represent you or your country? How about CSJ?
You think that Singaporeans are not aware of what the government is doing? You think that you're the only handful of people who are not blinded nor brainwashed? You think too highly of yourself.
Thanks to the current government, I had a good education that taught me to be politically aware of politics, foreigh and current affairs. I learn economics and history that taught me not to take things we have today for granted. From the Internet, countries I've travelled to and people I've spoken, I've learned what a good government and a bad government can do.
In the past, the US government also use the shifting of electorial boundaries to guarantee their win. The past a law a long time ago to make sure that this doesn't happen again. We know what our government is doing is unfair and unjust. Everyone overseas knows but does that stop trade or investment?
We know what the government is doing but we are objective enough to look at all its merits and flaws. Despite what the government does, one cannot deny that it's policy in the past has work and has brought stability and wealth to Singapore.
Some people can want the opposition to win so badly that they fail to see the larger picture. Let me re-emphasize that as citizens,
[b]we have the moral and social obligation to vote for what is best for the country
You want to vote for the opposition. Fine! But spare a thought for what your vote will do for yourself, your neighbour and your children's future.[/b] -
What do you mean legal cheating? facts?Originally posted by casino_king:You think people overseas have a good impression of a country if the country win election by cheating even though it might be legal cheating?
Many foreign Medias manipulate facts for personal gains, mostly for higher viewers/readersÂ’ ship, which boils down to more advertising dollars. Some unscrupulous foreign Medias twist facts to gain political supremacy over other countries. Many foreigners do not trust their own press either.Originally posted by casino_king:Do you think that people overseas will have a good impression of a country that supresses the press and the media instead of defending themselves against what the press and media complains about?
The longer I reside overseas, the more I realize our system is much better. Though we are not 100% perfect, we are getting better each time.Originally posted by casino_king:Some countries are making a big fool of themselves but their own local people have been so brainwashed that they do not see it. -
Please do not pretend you do not know what everybody knows.Originally posted by exkiwi:What do you mean legal cheating? facts?
I asked some overseas people a simple question: "are you willing to pay the kind of money to get rid of the traffic jams?"
No average perosn in their right mind said yes. Only the rich - so you see, the system is by the rich for the rich. I guess you must be "the rich."
That is why there is the need for the legal cheating and the suppression to go on. You see, the majority are "the poor." If they are fair, they would have been kicked out to the moon. -
Is there a law in Singapore to prevent the ruling party from redrawing the electoral boundaries? Is what the government doing illegal? You think the opposition would not be doing likewise if they are the ruling party?Originally posted by casino_king:From your post it can be seen that you are just a selfish frog in a hole. You are willing to defend dishonorable conduct. You call yourself educated?
You are putting Singapore's future at risk and in the hands of mad-man like CSJ and you call me selfish? You fail to see the larger picture and you call me a frog in the hole?
You are so short-sighted that all you can see is the opposition banner. Slap an opposition party sticker on MM Lee and I think you'll vote for him anytime.
If you're gonna made accusations without facts like CSJ, at least try to sound intelligent. -
so redrawing boundaries to win elections is acceptable to you??? legal cheating. even you agree that there is redrawing of boundaries to win elections. what facts do you need?Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Is there a law in Singapore to prevent the ruling party from redrawing the electoral boundaries? Is what the government doing illegal? You think the opposition would not be doing likewise if they are the ruling party?
You are putting Singapore's future at risk and in the hands of mad-man like CSJ and you call me selfish? You fail to see the larger picture and you call me a frog in the hole?
You are so short-sighted that all you can see is the opposition banner. Slap an opposition party sticker on MM Lee and I think you'll vote for him anytime.
If you're gonna made accusations without facts like CSJ, at least try to sound intelligent. -
What constructive ways would you handle this then? What the pros and cons of your suggestion? I would really like to hear your thoughts on this. Perhaps Jakarta can adopt your suggestion to ease their traffic.Originally posted by casino_king:I asked some overseas people a simple question: "are you willing to pay the kind of money to get rid of the traffic jams?" -
so everybody is so stupid as to vote mad men in??? you so stupid?? you the only smart eprson??? CSJ is made a scapegoat to prevent good people from trying, that's all.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Is there a law in Singapore to prevent the ruling party from redrawing the electoral boundaries? Is what the government doing illegal? You think the opposition would not be doing likewise if they are the ruling party?
You are putting Singapore's future at risk and in the hands of mad-man like CSJ and you call me selfish? You fail to see the larger picture and you call me a frog in the hole?
You are so short-sighted that all you can see is the opposition banner. Slap an opposition party sticker on MM Lee and I think you'll vote for him anytime.
If you're gonna made accusations without facts like CSJ, at least try to sound intelligent. -
Sorry but I don't speak Korean. Oops.. it's English? Hmm.. what is legal cheating? What is legal is legal, cheating is illegal and it is not legal. Do be confuse yet. You follow me so far?Originally posted by casino_king:so redrawing boundaries to win elections is acceptable to you??? legal cheating. even you agree that there is redrawing of boundaries to win elections. what facts do you need? -
This had been debated for so long you don't tell me you do not know what ways are available.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:What constructive ways would you handle this then? What the pros and cons of your suggestion? I would really like to hear your thoughts on this. Perhaps Jakarta can adopt your suggestion to ease their traffic.
Those who cannot take it do not need to live and work in Jarkata. People find ways around the problem and are not shoved expensive "solutions" that only favour the rich down their throat. -
Wow.. now we have conspiracy theory.. don't tell me. CSJ is an alien dress in human skin. Employed by PAP to discredit the opposition.Originally posted by casino_king:so everybody is so stupid as to vote mad men in??? you so stupid?? you the only smart eprson??? CSJ is made a scapegoat to prevent good people from trying, that's all. -
So where do you suggest the average Singaporean's live then? In Ubin or sister island?Originally posted by casino_king:Those who cannot take it do not need to live and work in Jarkata.