Opposition candidates disappointing
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Yes.. and the chimps will soon be sent to the zoo right after being elected because they decided to poo on their letter of appointment during the swearing in.Originally posted by Rexdriver:Well said. Our issue is with the unbalanced, unaccountable system, and I will vote in chimps to correct the system if that is what it takes. -
Not like we cannot get rid of the chimps if they prove to be monkeys. Anyway, what can harm can they do? The whole system is now full of spys for you know who and if the chimps do anything wrong, somebody somewhere will tell on them. Not so you know who. Whatever they do is under the so called official secrets actOriginally posted by Rexdriver:Well said. Our issue is with the unbalanced, unaccountable system, and I will vote in chimps to correct the system if that is what it takes. -
100 marks! A*Originally posted by anonymouscoward:I'm someone who's relatistic enough to know that true democracy doesn't exist; and rational enough to know even if it does, it'll not put food on the table.
It's a good-to-have but I'll choose an efficient and effective government over one filled with chimps and idiots. -
Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Yes.. and the chimps will soon be sent to the zoo right after being elected because they decided to poo on their letter of appointment during the swearing in.
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Originally posted by anonymouscoward:
So you think it is right for you to demand the lifestyle of an American in a Singaporean state? I admire your imagination, it like the story of the 40 year old good-for-nothing who's still waiting to hit TOTO.
so you think it is wrong for a black slave to demand for freedom in 19th century america? i deplore your hypocrisy, its like those despicable southen slave owner who had to be beaten up by their northen industrialists in order for the slaves to be liberated.
For me, I'm gald I learned that onbody owes me a living a long time ago and I work hard using whatever opportunity opened to me; Live within whatever limitations I cannot change. So far, it has proven to be a success formula.
nobody owes me a living too. but being successful doesn't prevent me from being sensitive to the plights of the less well off and to speak up for injustice.
Improvement on infrastructure mean increasing the train frequency, increasing the number of trains, add more routes etc... I doubt you will ever understand unless you ran your own business.
by how much can you increase train frequency? at most a minute or two in between trains. increase the number of trains so what? there is only one track that can only carry that many trains at any given time. i seriously think you need to learn some common sense from common folks. the way you run trains, i'm glad you're not the minister of transport.
I wasn't born rich.
now that you are, you're forgetting your roots and demanding that common folks be jam packed inside trains like sardine? how selfish you are.
Who are you that I should justify my claims? Do you own property and car in Hong Kong?
why you care? i won't pursue this further if you can't substantiate what you're saying. so now you're trying to show off you have property and car in hong kong is it? since you're so rich, it is no wonder you have absolutely no care or concern for the plights of the common folks who have to bear with the inadequacies of public transportation day in day out.
I didn't challenge you saying that a BigMac meal is not US$4.
then what is this: "So you think a BigMac meal cost US$4 because it cost about S$6 here?"
I challenge you because you used a ridiculous hypothesis that a burger in Singapore would cost S$2 if it cost US$1 in justifying that it'll cost more because you're earning SGD. I've said that price of specific items are irrelevant.
don't be stupid please. how many times must i repeat myself? the burger is just an artefact used to explain how purchasing power parity, if it were to operate to its full efficiency would result in identical items to cost the same in two different places. granted it may not be perfect there are cases (which i demonstrated) where it actually holds true.
Why are you so fixated with specific numbers?
do not forget, you're the one who started using numbers. i'm merely using your numbers to prove you wrong.
It began with you saying that US citizens earns more a person of the same profession and calibre.
that wasn't exactly what i said. i said "they certainly earn much higher wages that more than compensate for higher taxes". your US wages of "US65K-US90K" are indeed much higher than our wages of SGD35K-50K which more than compensates for higher US taxes because ultimately, after deducting for taxes, your "US40K-65K" is still higher than our SGD35K-50K which is as yet undeducted.
I said that though that maybe true, both will be earning approximately the same after tax.
really? let me refresh your memory again. you began by saying 'wrong again. they do not earn higher wages compared to Singaporeans.' your "US65K-US90K" wages are indeed much higher than our wages of SGD35K-50K. your statement would only be correct if you have said "their net income is not significantly higher than ours but still higher no doubt, despite their 40% taxes".
You should be comparing between someone who earns US100k but end up with about US60k after tax and someone who earns approx SGD60k after tax. Don't pluck numbers to suit your calculations.
i was merely using your figures of US65K-US90K. now you're changing it to US100k to better suit your arguments. so who is the one plucking numbers to suit his calculations? -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
you and your empty-vessel tactics again... now what's the aim of this post?? To Denigrate US State Dept?
[b]Thursday 2006 March 16,
Singapore opposition leader(CSJ) found guilty of contempt
Why cant he play the games by the rules and keep inside the ring?
How can he serve his people in jail?Staying in jail hardly achieve
democracy.I am sorry for his family and parents.
2.US State Dept Country must thanks CSJ for his activities
in the past years.If not,they had to think hard what to write for Sg.
Reports on Human Rights Practices - 1999--2005
Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor
incl the latest March 8, 2006
3.
Chee Soon Juan (left) is approached and filmed by police officers, who asked him to leave the area, while he was trying to sell his book with an assistant (second left) in front of the Central Provident Fund (CPF) building while four activists staged a protest nearby, 11 August 2005
PAFP PHOTO/ROSLAN RAHMAN[/b] -
There are many people not worth fighting for in the search for democracy, but what seperates them from us, is that we still fight for them anyway, not because we pity those who cannot understand democracy, but because we find it is the right thing to do.
If we do not have a robust working multi-party system, the next time the incumbent allows itself to wither and rot due to a lack of challenge, what do well tell our kids?
Sorry that we were too focused on "bread and butter issues" that we failed to see the big picture about accountability and checks and balances that are needed before any policy concerning "bread and butter" issues can be properly crafted and be implemented with more accurate levels of feedback?
They can go and face their kids in shame, I hope I can give mine a respectable Singapore. -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
OK, you go read the first person account instead of basing your opinion on third person reporting.
CSJ sent non--SDP member to represent him in Oppostion meeting
while SDP members were attending!!
Today Strait Times 16.02.2006.p H6.
1.[b]CSJ send an non --SDP member YAP KENG HOE to represent him
to attend opposition parties meeting at which there are 3 SDP
members.Chairman may take action against CSJ.
Unbelievable,how can CSJ did that?
No common sense,no basic human relationship skill,
no rules of SDP lah.
2.SDP seems have some internal affairs.The Chairman said CSJ
focus a lot in foreign issues.
[/b]
http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=sammyboymod&msg=95404.4&search=y
Can also check out the forum:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/sammyboymod/messages/?msg=91416 -
Don't think anonymouscoward is a spy.Originally posted by drawer:Are u a PAP spy?
Probably a PAP supporter who had seen better days in the past.
Guess many people in this group.
Probably well qualified and perhaps even working in government related job.
Wants someone to challenge but not dislodge the PAP. -
Originally posted by snow leopard:
so you think it is wrong for a black slave to demand for freedom in 19th century america? i deplore your hypocrisy, its like those despicable southen slave owner who had to be beaten up by their northen industrialists in order for the slaves to be liberated.
Please don't insult the black liberation by comparing what we have here and their suffering. You probably know nuts about suffering or you won't be spewing nonsense here.
Hypocrisy? You are in no position to brand me that when all you care about is yourself and your dream of democracy. Have you spare a thought for others who have even more to loose with a shaky political environment?
nobody owes me a living too. but being successful doesn't prevent me from being sensitive to the plights of the less well off and to speak up for injustice.
Really? I really sounded like your blaming the government for not have a comfortable right on the MRT or your ability to buy a car.
i'm glad you're not the minister of transport.
Me too.. if I have to deal with craps like you.
now that you are, you're forgetting your roots and demanding that common folks be jam packed inside trains like sardine? how selfish you are.
Like I said, you are in position and you know nuts about me to be making this accusation.
since you're so rich, it is no wonder you have absolutely no care or concern for the plights of the common folks who have to bear with the inadequacies of public transportation day in day out.
Again, do not insult me and my concern for the general public. You have no right and is in no position to do so. I am concern and I do believe there is more the government can do for the public. But I'm also thankful for what we have now.
I think I've said and read enough. Let the GE results speak for themselves. -
Absolutely right. A minor correction though. I'm not a PAP supporter and I've seen worse days (not better days) in the past.Originally posted by ObviousMan:Don't think anonymouscoward is a spy.
Probably a PAP supporter who had seen better days in the past.
Guess many people in this group.
Probably well qualified and perhaps even working in government related job.
Wants someone to challenge but not dislodge the PAP. -
Originally posted by anonymouscoward:
Please don't insult the black liberation by comparing what we have here and their suffering. You probably know nuts about suffering or you won't be spewing nonsense here.
i am not insulting the black liberation. i am insulting you for thinking along the lines of slave owners who wouldn't care two cents about the plights of the common people and social inequality. if i am in no position to brand you, then why are you in the position to say i know nuts and spewing nonsense? only you can brand others, others cannot brand you. is that the way you communicate here? is that the way the govt deals with its people?
Hypocrisy? You are in no position to brand me that when all you care about is yourself and your dream of democracy. Have you spare a thought for others who have even more to loose with a shaky political environment?
the moment you brand someone by calling him names, you jolly well accept that you would be branded as well. the fact that you called me names first, gives you no position to tell me off and i will brand you in whatever way i deem fit supported by revelations from your own statements.
you have not answered my question yet. 2 out of 81 seats. where is your so-called shakiness? are you trying to deceive people to think that 2 out of 81 seats to the opposition would result in a shaky environment? have you spared a thought for others who would forever be led by their noses when there is no alternative representation to lend them their voices?
Really? I really sounded like your blaming the government for not have a comfortable right on the MRT or your ability to buy a car.
you have twisted the purpose of my arguments. in the first place, i did not start this "mini" discussion. i merely responded to what i felt were inaccurate and unfair statements by a fellow forumer. while i may be convicted in my arguments, the volume of this discussion is largely in response to what sounded like your insistence that the govt has provided us with the best transportation system when in actual fact our so-called 'world class transportation' is really no different from those of other countries and our (not just mine) right to own a car has been taken away from us to fill govt coffers to the brim.
Me too.. if I have to deal with craps like you.
but only a crap would choose to deal with another crap.
Like I said, you are in position and you know nuts about me to be making this accusation.
i am in every position to make inferences from your statements and to make logical conclusions (not accusations).
Again, do not insult me and my concern for the general public. You have no right and is in no position to do so. I am concern and I do believe there is more the government can do for the public. But I'm also thankful for what we have now.
i am not insulting you. i am merely returning you in kind what you have showered on me first. if i have no right and in no position, then what gives you the right and the position to insult me in the first place? you concerned? at first i thought you might be, but after all your crap i really think you're nothing but a PAP crony.
I think I've said and read enough. Let the GE results speak for themselves.
the GE is merely a wayang show that does nothing and changes nothing ... if it speaks, it speaks the same tune year on year, of what we don't have and what we will never have. -
A quote from somewhere:
"For government, by its nature, tends to oppress. And government, without a watchdog, would soon oppress the people it was created to serve" -
imminent? or do you mean remote? in 2001 they contested 55 seats which is about the same number this time and they only got two seats. in 1997 they contested 36 seats and also got only two seats. even in their most successful 1991 where they contested 40 seats they merely got 4 seats. year after year they can't even get a handful of seats, what imminence are you talking about?Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Ah.. but the report says that the opposition parties are contesting approx 57 seats out of all the seats available. There is a imminent possibility that they can replace the ruling party; however slim that chance maybe.
so when you say "however slim that chance maybe", you are betraying yourself and acknowledging the fact that the chance is indeed very slim. -
Better or worse is itself relative.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:Absolutely right. A minor correction though. I'm not a PAP supporter and I've seen worse days (not better days) in the past.
If you ask, most singaporeans will say that they have progressed much from the 60's. But is it better to be poor but have hope working for a better future or rich but looking forward to a bleak future?
The point i am driving is that nowadays, even the young look to the the future with dread. And the people in ivory towers seem oblivious to the real economy and keep generating excellent data that shows otherwise.
Off-topic, how anonymous can you get by showing your email in your profile? -
your first statement says it all. the average person on the street does not understand democracy. he is only concerned that there is bread on the table and television to watch. before you can have the checks and balances, you first need to get them to vote for you and unless you pitch your offer in terms of bread and butter, they will not understand you, least of all vote for you.Originally posted by LazerLordz:... because we pity those who cannot understand democracy ...
Sorry that we were too focused on "bread and butter issues" that we failed to see the big picture about accountability and checks and balances that are needed before any policy concerning "bread and butter" issues can be properly crafted and be implemented with more accurate levels of feedback?
that is something the PAP has always understood ... -
what i meant was this. a significant proportion of the older generation are hawkers and taxi drivers who are probably pissed with the govt for screwing up their lives so more of them would vote for the opposition.Originally posted by LazerLordz:I don't know which bunch of youths and young Singaporeans you hang out with, but in my circle, we are definitely not buying the wayang show.
Simply put, we are not amused and not convinced.We look long-term and are not bound by cheap tricks and bread-and-buttter promises or issues.
in contrast, the younger generation are better educated and a significant proportion of them are employed by govt agencies or GLCs. this group will continue to swell in numbers and will vote for PAP for the simple reason that they are voting for their own pay checks. -
I think Singaporean are mature enough to decide what they want for themselve this coming election. The voters now are mostly better educated. That's should be true.
We should show our respect for all those candidates offering to serve us for the next five years regardless where they from,who they are and what title they hold. At least they commited $13000 and speak times rallying and ground works etc.
Just quote, the chinese saying " As long as a cat can catches mouse, why brother it's white or black, it's good".
Finally, decide yourself what you wanted in your life. -
Nobody believes that true democracy exists, but a rational man would rather place his faith on a functional system of governance that seeks to achieve democracy than on the integrity of a bunch of self-proclaimed 'junzi'.Originally posted by anonymouscoward:I'm someone who's relatistic enough to know that true democracy doesn't exist; and rational enough to know even if it does, it'll not put food on the table.
It's a good-to-have but I'll choose an efficient and effective government over one filled with chimps and idiots.
Sometimes, you have to make sacrifices to come closer to an ideal, to achieve intangibles, or just to make a statement. But we in Singapore are only concerned about the food on the table. -
[quoteOriginally posted by anonymouscoward:
I'm someone who's relatistic enough to know that true democracy doesn't exist; and rational enough to know even if it does, it'll not put food on the table.
such a mentality can only stem from an assumtion, that when the PAP is no longer around, EDB will collapse. EDB will cease to function and no longer bring in investments. SIA will stop flying and all pilots would suddenly resign and become taxi drivers. police will stop protecting citizens and our citizen soldiers (which is really ourselves) will cease to carry out our NS duties. how realistic is that assumption? since it is not realistic, then an alternative govt doesn't mean no food on the table.
It's a good-to-have but I'll choose an efficient and effective government over one filled with chimps and idiots.
[/quote]
this is a condescending statement on luminary oppositions like Low Thia Kiang, Chiam See Tong and Jayeratnam. did the PAP start off with impressive candidates in its lineup? there were only four 'giants' in the founding team that gradually grew bigger and stronger. similarly, given the opportunity and the time, "chimps" will evolve into "humans". -
Originally posted by anonymouscoward:
I'm someone who's relatistic enough to know that true democracy doesn't exist; and rational enough to know even if it does, it'll not put food on the table.
such a mentality can only stem from an assumption, that when the PAP is no longer around, EDB will collapse. EDB will cease to function and no longer bring in investments. SIA will stop flying and all pilots would suddenly resign and become taxi drivers. police will stop protecting citizens and our citizen soldiers (which is really ourselves) will cease to carry out our NS duties. how realistic is that assumption? since it is not realistic, then an alternative govt doesn't mean no food on the table.
It's a good-to-have but I'll choose an efficient and effective government over one filled with chimps and idiots.
this is a condescending statement on luminary oppositions like Low Thia Kiang, Chiam See Tong and Jayeratnam. did the PAP start off with impressive candidates in its lineup? there were only four 'giants' in the founding team that gradually grew bigger and stronger. similarly, given the opportunity and the time, "chimps" will evolve into "humans". -
Does democracy equate prosperity?
Frankly, I think if the Opposition can attract a successful entrepreneur like Li Ka Shing to join, they will have a good chance...he's got a good track record of making making for his company.. -
Frankly speaking, I doubted your understanding of the requirement of people server. Basically we are giving them chance and paying at a fee for them to create a better country and possible some wealth.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Does democracy equate prosperity?
Frankly, I think if the Opposition can attract a successful entrepreneur like Li Ka Shing to join, they will have a good chance...he's got a good track record of making making for his company..
You believed someone when his wife grave was broken into.. Heard about the telco share story..Sad to say the next moment I will only see that you are dry. -
So running a country is just about making money? Living a life is just about making money?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Does democracy equate prosperity?
Frankly, I think if the Opposition can attract a successful entrepreneur like Li Ka Shing to join, they will have a good chance...he's got a good track record of making making for his company.. -
The part that running a country is just about making "money" should be related to: allow me to quote: to achieve happiness, prosperity and progress for our nation. (As stated by our respectable late co-founder of Singapore, Mr S Rajaratnam.Originally posted by Rexdriver:So running a country is just about making money? Living a life is just about making money?
It's is for the nation. No just big pocket for you or anyone that runs a country.
Living a commoner's life in Singapore, priority is still making money in order to survive. With one sufficient, he can then contribute to the nation development. Do you agree?.