Will you support unification of singapore and malaysia if...
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Brunei is spiralling down the drain, as far as diversification of the economy is concerned.
Development of infrastructure is pulling ahead of expected demand for services and consumption.Artificial job-creation?
You'd bet.What with the safe salaries and unwillingness to embrace change of industry..I'd think Brunei doesn't stand a chance.
Now that's one state that should place economics before religion, and leave the Melayu Islamic Beraja philosophy in the private realm.A nation like that, with potentially the best beaches along the Pacific Rim that is still undeveloped, with hill ranges and riverine prospect for tropical resorts and eco-tourism, is not moving ahead because of silly restrictions on un-Islamic behaviour that is applied wholesale to the nation.
If Brunei falls, I'd say it was a gawd awful waste.They need reform, and they need reform quick.No one is going to prop up the Empire Hotel complex with oil money any longer. -
I agree with you, the HK people are tough and their survival instinct, especially their adaptability and flexibility, is something to be respected.Originally posted by will4:It is true many local complained about Spore but it depended on what kind of lifestyle they really wanted to lead. HK people actually tough lot cause they still worked at this dim sum restaurant in US, look at San Francisco chinatown.
Sporean want to achiev the five C but if they cannot get it, they go to other countries to achieve it. Nothing wrong about it. Maybe u like to point out what local complained about Spore.
It is ok if any singaporean wants to migrate because they think they can achieve better things overseas, or even just go there and try out a new way of life. It is ok if we complain about the government, the high costs of living, anything and everything about singapore, it is our opinion and are free to express. In expressing our opinions/complaints, there are those substantiate their complaints with much data and those who suggest solutions (even though a little theoretical
), these forumites I respect though I may or may not agree with them.
There are those would not want to fight for singapore unless....want to migrate unless.......singapore should do this because england has it.....singapore should do that because it is there in oz, these I hardly hear when other nationalities discuss among themselves about their countries. -
that's because in those nations, there is established respect for plurality of views and they are in nations where they have an actual say or have marginally more effective contributory powers and influence than the lip-service we experience here everyday, not to mention every 5 years.Originally posted by sgdiehard:I agree with you, the HK people are tough and their survival instinct, especially their adaptability and flexibility, is something to be respected.
It is ok if any singaporean wants to migrate because they think they can achieve better things overseas, or even just go there and try out a new way of life. It is ok if we complain about the government, the high costs of living, anything and everything about singapore, it is our opinion and are free to express. In expressing our opinions/complaints, there are those substantiate their complaints with much data and those who suggest solutions (even though a little theoretical ), these forumites I respect though I may or may not agree with them.
There are those would not want to fight for singapore unless....want to migrate unless.......singapore should do this because england has it.....singapore should do that because it is there in oz, these I hardly hear when other nationalities discuss among themselves about their countries. -
Speaking about the high cost of living, many local have bought houses in JBOriginally posted by sgdiehard:I agree with you, the HK people are tough and their survival instinct, especially their adaptability and flexibility, is something to be respected.
It is ok if any singaporean wants to migrate because they think they can achieve better things overseas, or even just go there and try out a new way of life. It is ok if we complain about the government, the high costs of living, anything and everything about singapore, it is our opinion and are free to express. In expressing our opinions/complaints, there are those substantiate their complaints with much data and those who suggest solutions (even though a little theoretical ), these forumites I respect though I may or may not agree with them.
There are those would not want to fight for singapore unless....want to migrate unless.......singapore should do this because england has it.....singapore should do that because it is there in oz, these I hardly hear when other nationalities discuss among themselves about their countries.
Malaysia. No offence but the costof living here is higher than NZ.
NS has also caused many Sprorean father n mother to shift to other countries.
It is not surprising S.Korea also has NS. If a Korean knew his soon to be born baby is going to be a male, he will sent his wife to give birth in US or Canada so in order for his baby to get US or Canadian citizenship. I have a lecturer came back from US n he simply cannot understand how come so many people from other countries trying hard to get Spore PR when Spore had a couple of AWOL personnel escaping to other country. -
I know the cost of living in singapore is higher than many other places, not just NZ, why should I be offended to that fact? It is just what kind of life you want to live. A elderly business associate of mine from HK moved his whole family to NZ in 1995, now he is back in HK and wanting to retire in shenzhen, and his children now live in HK. NZ is just a safe place in case HK turns commie. But that din happen, he realised a home must be safe but where it is safe may not be home.Originally posted by will4:Speaking about the high cost of living, many local have bought houses in JB
Malaysia. No offence but the costof living here is higher than NZ.
NS has also caused many Sprorean father n mother to shift to other countries.
It is not surprising S.Korea also has NS. If a Korean knew his soon to be born baby is going to be a male, he will sent his wife to give birth in US or Canada so in order for his baby to get US or Canadian citizenship. I have a lecturer came back from US n he simply cannot understand how come so many people from other countries trying hard to get Spore PR when Spore had a couple of AWOL personnel escaping to other country.
so what so frightening about NS in Singapore? I went thru and my two sons will be going thru. Parents who are afraid of sending their sons to NS should migrate, we don't need them here. NS still serve its purpose for the sake of national security in singapore and it will not be changed just for a few ignorant and protective parents.
I am not surprised that your lecturer from US cannot understand many things that happened here, because most americans believe that everything should be done the way they do.
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there are facts that I will not deny, but there are also reasons why there are they way they are. Years of nation building is one main reason, the size of the country and the resources is another, the demography of the population is another. The question is what it takes to make the changes.Originally posted by LazerLordz:that's because in those nations, there is established respect for plurality of views and they are in nations where they have an actual say or have marginally more effective contributory powers and influence than the lip-service we experience here everyday, not to mention every 5 years.
The respect established in those countries took centuries. Rome was not built in one day, if the romans run away than rome would never be built. fortunately not all romans were thinking of running away. -
I am not sure if NS is the main contributing factor for families to migrate to other countries although many have said so. I question would one move his/her family to, say, Congo to evade serving NS? Or would one be attracted by the constant advertisement in media of a better life in the US to move his/her family there? Then let us think is it not true that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence or the moon bigger?Originally posted by will4:NS has also caused many Sprorean father n mother to shift to other countries.I have a lecturer came back from US n he simply cannot understand how come so many people from other countries trying hard to get Spore PR when Spore had a couple of AWOL personnel escaping to other country
Perhaps the analogy of many latin Americans wanting to get into US when the US had a soldier deserted the US Army to North Korea may shed some light to your lecturer. -
no way! people, go study social studies and you will appreciate singapore's remarkable progress
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Hi LazerLordz,Originally posted by LazerLordz:that's because in those nations, there is established respect for plurality of views and they are in nations where they have an actual say or have marginally more effective contributory powers and influence than the lip-service we experience here everyday, not to mention every 5 years.
I like to support the view that we should establish respect amongst our fellow Singaporeans for plurality of views, and also to discern views from personalities. We should take issue with views but not against the person; a healthy debate not an avenue for character attack.
However, on the issue of influence of views, I question the desire for an effect or the process. Simply, fireworks is beautiful but it is not going to shoot down fighter aircraft. While the process of a debate is healthy airing of views but not always an effective mean to produce workable results.
I am of the mind that we should pick able people and then entrust them to fearlessly do their work. Free from noise and beholden to a few lobbyists.
What do you think?
Best regards. -
There are a whole host of reasons for people migrating out of this country. From national service to not being able to find that ideal job or just not making the cut, for whatever reasons, I think it is everybody's preogative to choose for him or herself the life they want to lead. I mean if we want to debate this, there a whole host of issues at hand to cover. From the way our country is being run, to the aspirations of the individual. To break this down even further, it will be individual issues like job creation, national service, political apathy. It's easy to list it all.
The question is what are we trying to achieve at the end of the day? It is that we all aspire to fufill our ideal life. For some of us it is that big house, that big car. For others, it's just peace and tranquility.
Then what is governance about? Fufilling that ideal life, the aspirations of the electorate? It isn't. It is to give hope of the fulfillment of an ideal life which we can never attain.
That is why we have to be realistic and I agree with sgdiehard, though I dun share his ardent patriotism, that we have to work within the very limits and confines of the system and be accpeting of what we have. Of course, there is choice and one of it is always the grass which is greener on the other side. Which, in reality, will never be greener as we never stop aspiring. -
Why bother with unification if both sides can work within the ASEAN framework - with a Common Market, Free Trade Zone, Preferential Taxes, Open Borders, and perhaps a Common Currency in the distant future ? -
true. those who want to build this country will stay, those who leave, you cannot blame them too, because who's to say your destiny lies here..right?Originally posted by sgdiehard:there are facts that I will not deny, but there are also reasons why there are they way they are. Years of nation building is one main reason, the size of the country and the resources is another, the demography of the population is another. The question is what it takes to make the changes.
The respect established in those countries took centuries. Rome was not built in one day, if the romans run away than rome would never be built. fortunately not all romans were thinking of running away.
*shrugs*. -
that is a good way to make the difference. If it is individual's aspirations, it is individual's perogative to migrate. If it is about the country as a whole, it affects all other citizens. Nobody should achieve his personal aspirations at the expense of others.Originally posted by Quincey:There are a whole host of reasons for people migrating out of this country. From national service to not being able to find that ideal job or just not making the cut, for whatever reasons, I think it is everybody's preogative to choose for him or herself the life they want to lead. I mean if we want to debate this, there a whole host of issues at hand to cover. From the way our country is being run, to the aspirations of the individual. To break this down even further, it will be individual issues like job creation, national service, political apathy. It's easy to list it all.
need to make a correction here. We know there are limits and confines in the system. We may not accept them and I certainly do not agree with many of them. But, if I want to challenge the limits and cross the boundaries, I calculate careful what I could achieve and at what price. In a small way, I have crossed sword with the immigration department, the ministry of manpower, but I make sure that police don't get involved and I finally got what I wanted. I don't want to challenge for the sake of challenge.Originally posted by Quincey:That is why we have to be realistic and I agree with sgdiehard, though I dun share his ardent patriotism, that we have to work within the very limits and confines of the system and be accpeting of what we have. Of course, there is choice and one of it is always the grass which is greener on the other side. Which, in reality, will never be greener as we never stop aspiring.
We should also work in our own way to change the systems, or at least to modify them. The important thing is HOW. If you want to change the whole system then you are talking about changing the government. We saw how people's power changed the government of the philippines, working? I don't think so. We are seeing how Thaksin's oppositions are trying to make changes. Do you think Thaksin should resign just because opposition takes to the streets, especially after they boycott the general election (which to me means they don't care about the views of other population)? But now, prolonged demonstrations causing daily massive traffic jams, affecting business of the hawkers, and in general, the ordinary people's life is affected now. Is this the way? we will need a King like the Thai to step in case situation gets out of control. But if it is the King that they wanted to change, then....just joking.
Like it or not, we are a young country and to achieve what we tried to do, the people of singapore had reared a tiger, you can't then tame a fiece tiger overnight, you may even have to wait for it to grow old.
I think I am just being realistic, patriotic? if there is any in me, it is to the country Singapore.
cheers. -
when did i blame anybody for leaving?Originally posted by LazerLordz:true. those who want to build this country will stay, those who leave, you cannot blame them too, because who's to say your destiny lies here..right?
*shrugs*.
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Another thing about NS is te chances of being sent to a unit they never liked.Originally posted by sgdiehard:I know the cost of living in singapore is higher than many other places, not just NZ, why should I be offended to that fact? It is just what kind of life you want to live. A elderly business associate of mine from HK moved his whole family to NZ in 1995, now he is back in HK and wanting to retire in shenzhen, and his children now live in HK. NZ is just a safe place in case HK turns commie. But that din happen, he realised a home must be safe but where it is safe may not be home.
so what so frightening about NS in Singapore? I went thru and my two sons will be going thru. Parents who are afraid of sending their sons to NS should migrate, we don't need them here. NS still serve its purpose for the sake of national security in singapore and it will not be changed just for a few ignorant and protective parents.
I am not surprised that your lecturer from US cannot understand many things that happened here, because most americans believe that everything should be done the way they do.
I have a fren posted Combat Engineer n he decided to act crazy by screaming in the middle of the night.
He got sent to IMH for checking n subsequently downgraded to become a DJ.
I am not against NS but I am against of sending recruit to SISPEC or OCS against their
will. -
I have talked to local to comapre Spore with HK or Taiwan.Originally posted by jayellefull:no way! people, go study social studies and you will appreciate singapore's remarkable progress -
My lecturer is local n he stayed in US for no of years. I met another SporeanOriginally posted by Blue Dolphin:Perhaps the analogy of many latin Americans wanting to get into US when the US had a soldier deserted the US Army to North Korea may shed some light to your lecturer.
in NZ n he mentioned the reason for him to migrate is he cannot tahan his
fellow Sporean so kiasu n kiasi. -
you think army your father's holiday camp, suka suka you can choose where you want to be posted. why do you want to be a singapore PR? why do you want to serve NS?Originally posted by will4:Another thing about NS is te chances of being sent to a unit they never liked.
I have a fren posted Combat Engineer n he decided to act crazy by screaming in the middle of the night.
He got sent to IMH for checking n subsequently downgraded to become a DJ.
I am not against NS but I am against of sending recruit to SISPEC or OCS against their
will. -
what are you driving at???Originally posted by will4:I have talked to local to comapre Spore with HK or Taiwan. -
I also hoped to choose which unit I liked to be posted. I became a PR cause aOriginally posted by sgdiehard:you think army your father's holiday camp, suka suka you can choose where you want to be posted. why do you want to be a singapore PR? why do you want to serve NS?
second generation PR. Luckily I managed to siam the ten year cycle.
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Seriously speaking, Brunei is away from the Far East trade route
As for East Malaysia, I seriously hope the 9th Malaysia Plan can help to develop Sarawak and Sabah.. They only recently had a containerised cargo port -
I am not trying to drive at anything. I read the newspaper article Spore students ranked almost the top of list in math n science. Below the list is Taiwan n HK.Originally posted by sgdiehard:what are you driving at???
Look at the HK's movie industry, so popular among the locals.
I ever asked a local what he thought of Spore drama series compared to HK, he
mentioned HK drama series is better. It seemed so many local admired HK or Taiwan thing. -
Another info for u, many PR never served NS n chose to give up their Spore PR.Originally posted by will4:Another thing about NS is te chances of being sent to a unit they never liked.
I have a fren posted Combat Engineer n he decided to act crazy by screaming in the middle of the night.
He got sent to IMH for checking n subsequently downgraded to become a DJ.
I am not against NS but I am against of sending recruit to SISPEC or OCS against their
will.
I think if given a choice, be a PR in Australia.