Who finally will save Singapore from autocracy and elitism
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It will take immense sacrifice on the part of some leaders from the lower class of society to lead the whole country and fire up every one to take all one step up on the ladder.
But if we are to pay attention to LKY, GCT and LHL and their respective policies and actions, they are unable to fire up the passion of the population any more. They are rich, receiving highest rewards beyond any mortals and are enjoying the way of life of the rich and wealthy. They have lost touch with the ground and unable to understand their aspirations and desire to advance themselves up the social and material strata in society. All our other ministers are well to do and living in their comfort zone unable to represent the common man's desire to be free from want and hunger or loss of jobs.
How to find someone who has the inborn need to empathise with the majority of the populations now ?
I guess there is going to be a few such people around. If there is one, most likely he is not from the upper class or the elites. He is more likely to be the underdog and someone who is prepared to die for a good cause and give up his self and selfness to serve for some passion.
Such a leader is badly wanted in Singapore someone even if given higher salaries and rewards will say that he would just need enough and is prepared to give up wealth and donate to charity.
Try to look around for someone who is of such a character and who is prepared to serve without talking all the time about his own interest and personal wealth and comfort and set example to all in his party and colleagues to change Singapore.
Lee Hsien Loong is not able to appreciate the wants and needs of common men as he has grown up without deprivations or felt the dire consequences of hunger of some family without a job.
All that he could do is to continue to tweak and bend the past policies which only favor the brightest persons and the certain upper class the employers and the rich investors who would pick and choose anyway and not commit to our cause.
At the end, we would lose every advantage we had built up all these years because our leaders are too comfortable to think of improving our lives and competitiveness at the population level. They would not go further to fire up the whole population and none of us will experience anything better. -
Don't say until like that lah!
Our ministers got sacrifice you know. They can earn more in the private sector.
What is worse is that their pay now behind benchmark leh! -
mr robertteh why don't you be the first since you talk so much?
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It is an interesting situation who approves the ministers' million-dollar salaries and who put up the motions in parliament.Originally posted by ObviousMan:Don't say until like that lah!
Our ministers got sacrifice you know. They can earn more in the private sector.
What is worse is that their pay now behind benchmark leh!
I suppose they have done their homework to exclude making comparison with bosses in private sector on employee-to-employee apple-to-apple comparison and among these bosses' salaries taken for evaluation of ministers' salarlies none are paying themselves high salaries by way of before-tax self-rewarding of profits from their own capital risk through salaries. -
I am giving my view here and I do not claim my view is the only solution to any problem. So there is no need for you or any one to agree with me as it is only my view. I intend to defend what I say though so please prove where I was wrong.Originally posted by vito_corleone:mr robertteh why don't you be the first since you talk so much? -
No one can save Singapore if Singaporeans refuse to save themselves.
Simple as that! -
so lets say you want to save singapore...any detailed plans for that? most importantly, is there a viable and more suitable alternative to the current system, though screwed up it might be?Originally posted by robertteh:I am giving my view here and I do not claim my view is the only solution to any problem. So there is no need for you or any one to agree with me as it is only my view. I intend to defend what I say though so please prove where I was wrong. -
Originally posted by ObviousMan:Don't say until like that lah!
Our ministers got sacrifice you know. They can earn more in the private sector.
What is worse is that their pay now behind benchmark leh!
I actually was pure reading and tried very hard to stay away from this debate of comparing a Minister to a commercial benchmark topic. First I agreed and respected that Ministers do sacrifice. I respected them including all MPs for they had voluntarily stood out and seeked the voter to elect them as their representative in the Paraliament of Singapore. Repecting their talent and heart of serving, we, the citzen of singapore give the chance to serve the nation by voting for them. We too thank our kind ministers whom volunteered themselves to commit themselves in serving the nation of Singapore.
Till this point do you agree with me. Yes or No. -
this thread is ...................... gay .
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if this is the case they should resign and take up private jobs. i am sure there are plenty of capable people who wants to take up their 100k per month job.Originally posted by ObviousMan:Don't say until like that lah!
Our ministers got sacrifice you know. They can earn more in the private sector.
What is worse is that their pay now behind benchmark leh! -
Originally posted by king108:
some may have given up their better paying jobs for the cabinet but by no means are they sacrificing anything!! they would already have enough to see them through their life time and possibly their children's too. $80k a month for a minister's pay is not something i would consider a step down by any means. [b]I actually was pure reading and tried very hard to stay away from this debate of comparing a Minister to a commercial benchmark topic. First I agreed and respected that Ministers do sacrifice. I respected them including all MPs for they had voluntarily stood out and seeked the voter to elect them as their representative in the Paraliament of Singapore. Repecting their talent and heart of serving, we, the citzen of singapore give the chance to serve the nation by voting for them. We too thank our kind ministers whom volunteered themselves to commit themselves in serving the nation of Singapore. Till this point do you agree with me. Yes or No.
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for pap candidates, it's no volunteer. it's a practical shoo-in.
i don't begrudge some of the talents out there serving the nation but they need to walk the talk and contest openly and fairly to get our support. -
People have been largely brainwashed into believing whatever assumptions and untruths the leaders have been uttering all these years as correct.Originally posted by vito_corleone:so lets say you want to save singapore...any detailed plans for that? most importantly, is there a viable and more suitable alternative to the current system, though screwed up it might be?
The plain truth is there for all to see: Singapore might have done well up to a point but the eaders are not leading any further and are short of solutions and ideas. They cannot commiserate or empathise with people's problems and have constantly resorted to justifications and look-good presentations to deny many underlying and persistent problems by throwing back the same problems at the people.
One of their common methods in dealing with criticism, is to call people to prove your case, give detailed proposals or walk the talk etc. When people really take their advice and speak up or write to forum, they would either ignore them or counter them with "show me your constructive suggestions, show me your detailed proposals".
Just go and look at the great number of good detailed ideas and constructive suggestions posted to the Feedback Unit, on high costs of doing business and practical knowledge application and see how many of these suggestions have fallen on deaf ears and were not acknowledged or replied or adopted.
This kind of strategy is unsincere and lacking leadership. It is time people understand that this is plain hypocrisy which will not augur well for further progress. Do not support such hypocrisy or gerrymandering. Do not give in to falsehoods like how much are the leaders worth or how right are their policies or ideas and insist that they should deliver and work as good servants of the people. It is time to grow up Singaporeans and not be taken by all the hypocrisy so far being practised to deal or put off people who give their alternative views.. -
Originally posted by ObviousMan:Don't say until like that lah!
Our ministers got sacrifice you know. They can earn more in the private sector.
What is worse is that their pay now behind benchmark leh! I don't know whether you are for or, awaiting for you reply to my queries. Appreciated. -
It is not that feedback is being ignored when ideas are forwarded to the Feedback Unit.
The problem now is that the people at the top only believe in the bottom line.
If a suggestion or idea can make more money for the coffers, good.
If a suggestion or idea requires money to be spent, bad.
There is no more heart, compassion and morality in policies nowadays.
Everything is just reduced to just dollars and cents.
Will it kill to sacrifice some money in return for the continued well being of the citizens? Apparently, it does to the people at the top. -
Originally posted by king108:
Typo error.
[b] I don't know whether you are for or, awaiting for you reply to my queries. Appreciated.
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Wanted to know whether you are for or against, appreciated your reply to my queries. -
Originally posted by king108:
Eh? What point are you driving at here? There are a lot of things you have said that are too sweeping. For example, not all MPs/ Ministers "voluntarily stood out". Not every MP/ Minister has "talent and heart of serving". And clearly, we didn't vote a lot of them in... [b]I actually was pure reading and tried very hard to stay away from this debate of comparing a Minister to a commercial benchmark topic. First I agreed and respected that Ministers do sacrifice. I respected them including all MPs for they had voluntarily stood out and seeked the voter to elect them as their representative in the Paraliament of Singapore. Repecting their talent and heart of serving, we, the citzen of singapore give the chance to serve the nation by voting for them. We too thank our kind ministers whom volunteered themselves to commit themselves in serving the nation of Singapore. Till this point do you agree with me. Yes or No.
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This whole voting thing is just as much an illusion as is CPF, lah!
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Sorry fellow rexdriver, to get you involved in this.Originally posted by Rexdriver:Eh? What point are you driving at here? There are a lot of things you have said that are too sweeping. For example, not all MPs/ Ministers "voluntarily stood out". Not every MP/ Minister has "talent and heart of serving". And clearly, we didn't vote a lot of them in...
In your view, I would think your answer is some no. some yes. (In between answer)
In that case, we can only claimed that they "offered" to serve. The word "voluntarily" can no longer apply.
To "offer" normally come with a price tag in the case of a business. It will be the buyer to decided where and whom to buy from. This will also required some transparency during their offer. For example, how much will I charge you for the service provided for this contract (any hidden cost, etc)
As what was stated earlier by fellow obviousman (because they had sacrificed, which I do agree). (They must be pay according to a brenchmark as stated)
In real business sense, we will need/appreciated the offerer to quote the price when offering the service to us. In this case will be their wages, allowance and other so on. Am I right to say so?
Will you buy a product or service with no price tag? or hidden price tag?
Can you accept that the price increase as and when unconditionally if you are the consumer?
That all I can say about this. Cheer.
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Someone who is not from the elite & has innovative ideas.
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Originally posted by PRP:Someone who is not from the elite & has innovative ideas.
I do agree running a country is not like running any MNC (where at the end of the day is mainly profit and loss. Anyone may be named as elite, however, it's will required the general public to recogonise with respect that one can be called an elite. MM lee is an elite, do you agree. ( I will show both hand). Others..............(I reserved) Innovative idea may not be practical at the end of the day. I had seen and experienced myself. Having some creative young unexperienced high flyers headhunted from non related field ...come with out of the box thinkings. Leaded his own group of paratroopers later to manage. As a experienced exec, my duties can only be advising to improve the company's performances..however given a deaf ear not saying. I lefted after seeing enough of this group of so-called "elite" when restructure and so called down sizing (man / no salary) was initiated again. I am not a unionist non their rep had even proposed to HR that a pay cut of 10% from management to lower workers is workable, but was throwed out cause no one wanted to take cut especially "elite". I understand that the revenue had been droping since I lefted from somewhat 20M to next year ~10M (projection). For any kind of pay system, I believed that there should be a guide. Even our government had wanted to reduce the salary gap, but was anyone carrying and executing it orderly. Can be very subjective.
To do that, I believed that there must be a range that the lowest earner and the highest earner. Maybe 10 times the most including wages, variable bonuses, other packages. (unless this is your own company with your own investments and risks).
For an example:
An outstanding clerical officer of $1,000 per month, variable bonus of 6 months (very unlikely) included and max increment of 10%. May ended with $12000 + $6000 + 100 at the end of the year. ($18,100 per year)
A kind chief of the company of $10,000 per month (unlikely- maybe too low), variable also 6 months (give himself) included and max incre 10% (same). May ended with $120,000 + $60,000 + $1000 (181,000 per year).
This is a perfect sample. What happened if the clerical officer got only 2 months and 3% incre. The gap will be forever widening.
If the company is growing, it may be right to pay off well, but in the case of company no performing, in most case the lower staffs who may be loyal will be likely to be axed first. Would you call that performance of an "elite". No for me.
I had always believed to lead by example and together we go thru the thick and thin of life as a whole. Only by doing this, one may gained respect of most but maybe scolded by a handful. Where your stand will be recorded in the history.
On figures, I had seen adjustment before when I was working. I had even been instructed to adjust figures to make things looked good for presentation to the top. By adjusting the way or method of formulating a figures may look good for the management. However, it will never change the real condition of the actual financial status of any companies.
Managing an HDB will only required an Estate Manager, Welfare - Welfare / Social Officers / Volunteers. You can define the number of roles required and the type of vocation for it. (Add them up to see the figures considered it's multi-tasked), etc.
I don't wanted to decide on "elite" or not and realistically paided..It will the consideration and revision exercise for the remaining singapore singaporeans to decide. -
we need to be more democratic ..look at the casino issue..ppl want a referendum but govt refused
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singapore...we work by selective democracy...things that die die the govt wants no need referendum....otherwise if u ask they give...Originally posted by loneFighter:we need to be more democratic ..look at the casino issue..ppl want a referendum but govt refused -
It looks like the Swiss Standard of Living is now permanently DEAD
If the Swiss way is to be the way for Singapore to go, surely the Swiss political consultation between the government and its Citizens should also be emulated.
The Swiss has a built-in mechanism in which all important legislations that affect the Swiss standards will require the Citizen's agreement by way of a Referendum.
The exercise of a Referendum is easily and efficiently executed in a professional and no-nonsense approach.
NOBODY is ABOVE THE LAW - this includes the politicians.
If Switzerland continues to be held out as a Role Model for Singapore to follow, perhaps we should follow every aspect in which Switzerland is able to progress despite having faced bianess and world class competition. -
Dude, i feel ur fire..Originally posted by robertteh:People have been largely brainwashed into believing whatever assumptions and untruths the leaders have been uttering all these years as correct.
The plain truth is there for all to see: Singapore might have done well up to a point but the eaders are not leading any further and are short of solutions and ideas. They cannot commiserate or empathise with people's problems and have constantly resorted to justifications and look-good presentations to deny many underlying and persistent problems by throwing back the same problems at the people.
One of their common methods in dealing with criticism, is to call people to prove your case, give detailed proposals or walk the talk etc. When people really take their advice and speak up or write to forum, they would either ignore them or counter them with "show me your constructive suggestions, show me your detailed proposals".
Just go and look at the great number of good detailed ideas and constructive suggestions posted to the Feedback Unit, on high costs of doing business and practical knowledge application and see how many of these suggestions have fallen on deaf ears and were not acknowledged or replied or adopted.
This kind of strategy is unsincere and lacking leadership. It is time people understand that this is plain hypocrisy which will not augur well for further progress. Do not support such hypocrisy or gerrymandering. Do not give in to falsehoods like how much are the leaders worth or how right are their policies or ideas and insist that they should deliver and work as good servants of the people. It is time to grow up Singaporeans and not be taken by all the hypocrisy so far being practised to deal or put off people who give their alternative views..
Like you i too am sick and tired of this.
I feel the Current Government is bloody detached from the common man and merely sees fit to pasify us with burocratic babble that basically says nothing more than, "We know best So Shut Up".
They ask if we want Casinos.We say we dont want casinos here, they say its their decision to make... then i say dont ask us us in the first place.
How can men who dine with platinum spoons have any grasp of what it means to go hungry?
Where are our independent labour unions?
Workers have no voice.
The people have no voice.
How then is this even a democracy?
I suggest a nation wide forum period before elections.
The parties in contention should deabate these ideas brought up in the forums. All this should be done on live TV and considerations of the will of the people should be deabated for all to see.
Though Democracy ensures nothing more than the enforcement of the will of the majority, it sure beats the implicit tyrany of the walthy minority elite. -
I think only warm-hearted people can finally save singapore from autocracy and elitism.