Why is HDB upgrading allowed to be a political issue?
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at the end of the day ... our government did not win our hearts ... it did not become our hero ... it did not become our pride we can boast about
so its true, taiwanese paliarment are so rowdy, the candidates are so brash, and they are so into thier thingy until they bled. but of cos ... they are in taiwan ... we are in singapore ... so very different. but they are still distinctly taiwan, and taiwanese are distinctly taiwanese ...
how are we distinctly singaporean? because we have lion dance competition at taka? because we have zouk? MOS singapore? esplanade? our rojak? every step we take into the future ... the more diluted we have become somehow ...
sorry jus crapping ... this is a forum right lol -
Suppose PAP announced HDB estages upgrading would not be linked to electoral support,would the PAP lose many votes in the coming elections?I don't think it would.Maybe voters of opp. wards would be so happy that many of them would switch side to vote for PAP.What do u think?
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I doubt it.The air is good for a shift in political demographics, that's my own take on issues so far.Originally posted by PRP:Suppose PAP announced HDB estages upgrading would not be linked to electoral support,would the PAP lose many votes in the coming elections?I don't think it would.Maybe voters of opp. wards would be so happy that many of them would switch side to vote for PAP.What do u think?
But looking at everything, I can understand why so many people say "fuck this place' and leave because what they want, the current party cannot provide. -
The key issue with election-linked HDB upgrading is rule of law. Nitty gritty issues like whether the opposition can better help in upgrading their areas are technical details.
The main point here is if the government starts to link upgrading to votes, it is actually buying votes with upgrading monies even if it is using people's monies.
It is an illegal act in any country to buy votes whether with the party's own monies or people's monies. In Malaysia certain UMNO minister has to step down to take the rap for vote buying which was declared illegal.
The issuing of economic restructuring shares or topping up of CPF medisave is also an illegal act if done prior to or near election time.
When the government starts to buy votes it is telling people not to obey laws and consequently people can be excused for future breaking or underming of the rule of law.
So when will our government stop gerrymandering election processes like using the GRC or giving monies to the people in any way during or prior to election in order to uphold the rule of law.
Will the new chief justice rule on this in the larger interest of all Singaporeans so that he will have authority to dispense justice over the country with rule of law. -
Can the new Chief Justice rule impartially on such issues, when as the Attorney-General - he helped in "defining the law" by "clever art of splitting hairs" to interprete an otherwise clear Election Law ?
The Workers' Party complained to the police that PM Goh and other PAP leaders had been speaking to voters inside a polling station on polling day, an act deemed illegal under the Parliamentary Elections Act.
But the Public Prosecutor ruled that the PAP ministers had been inside the polling stations as opposed to "loitering" on the outside, so no offence had been committed. -
Just a point worth noting, there was no confirmation debate for the new Chief Justice.Such an appointment, should require the PM to appoint, on the majority assent of Parliament.Originally posted by robertteh:The key issue with election-linked HDB upgrading is rule of law. Nitty gritty issues like whether the opposition can better help in upgrading their areas are technical details.
The main point here is if the government starts to link upgrading to votes, it is actually buying votes with upgrading monies even if it is using people's monies.
It is an illegal act in any country to buy votes whether with the party's own monies or people's monies. In Malaysia certain UMNO minister has to step down to take the rap for vote buying which was declared illegal.
The issuing of economic restructuring shares or topping up of CPF medisave is also an illegal act if done prior to or near election time.
When the government starts to buy votes it is telling people not to obey laws and consequently people can be excused for future breaking or underming of the rule of law.
So when will our government stop gerrymandering election processes like using the GRC or giving monies to the people in any way during or prior to election in order to uphold the rule of law.
Will the new chief justice rule on this in the larger interest of all Singaporeans so that he will have authority to dispense justice over the country with rule of law. -
They can only make Upgrading of HDB homes a legitimate political issue if
its FREE, FULLY SPONSORED BY CASH-RICH HDB ! -
If Parliament appoints the Chief Justice, that would make the Judiciary subserviant to the Executive.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Just a point worth noting, there was no confirmation debate for the new Chief Justice.Such an appointment, should require the PM to appoint, on the majority assent of Parliament.
But I do agree that the Chief Justice should be appointed by an independent President, who is NOT part of the Executive. -
there's this income ceiling thing..Originally posted by LazerLordz:Don't be caught in the trap of a loan for a HDB if you can.Renting it will free up your CPF for future retirement use.
and please do not try to live beyond your means.
not everyone can rent a flat from hdb..
i fu mean renting from open market..
its not that easy to find a whole apartment.. unless u wan condominium at around 1k plus to 2k a mth..
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For years people are having many problems including regular defamation suits taken against political oppositions for alleged defamation or even innuendos uttered in the course of political participation. It is a fact that many people are seriously doubting the impartiality of our judicial system.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Just a point worth noting, there was no confirmation debate for the new Chief Justice.Such an appointment, should require the PM to appoint, on the majority assent of Parliament.
One reason is the judiciary is appointed by or with the active recommendation by the party and the PM in power. This fact alone is detrimental to dispensation of justice and equity without which we cannot expect people to accept rule of laws or cooperating with the government or accountability and transparency of governing the country.
I am looking forward to the day when we will have a new chief justice who can do all of us the loyality of contributing to the independence of our judiciary to lead to first major change expected by the people of the government. -
Agreed on the second point, but in our current situation, the assent is a more acheivable compromise.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:If Parliament appoints the Chief Justice, that would make the Judiciary subserviant to the Executive.
But I do agree that the Chief Justice should be appointed by an independent President, who is NOT part of the Executive. -
Parliament is not the Executive body.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:If Parliament appoints the Chief Justice, that would make the Judiciary subserviant to the Executive.
But I do agree that the Chief Justice should be appointed by an independent President, who is NOT part of the Executive.
The Government is the Executive Body.
The Parliament is the Legislature
The Judiciary is the third leg in this tripartite set-up.
These three separate bodies are supposed to oversee each other, unfortunately in the Singapore context, these are all in the hands of the POWER OF ONE.
Forget the Elected President, whose role is now obscured with amendments made to the ORIGINAL legislations that created this post. -
Political Reform is Needed!
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The Reasons
It is the right & responiblity for voters to vote for better candidate or party.Surely,there are voters who don't know how to vote & vote for worst candidate --- 9 days of campaining is surely not enuf for candidates to introduce themselve to voters.So how can a govt to punish voters for carrying out their responisbilty?If they choose wrongly,a govt should educate them or find out what has gone wrong.
PAP govt thinks that it is OK to take care of its supporters first using public fund.Then they also want to take care of themselves,their family,their friends & their subordinates, right?Everything for self interest.What is the meaning of serving the country? -
It's true that the Parliament is the Legislative body but as everyone knows, with hardly a significant minority in Parliament there is no clear separation between the Executive and the Legislature.
And yet you want the Parliament to appoint the Chief Justice? The nomination will be pushed across in less than 15 minutes!
If we want an independent Judiciary it would be better for an empowereed, popularly elected President to select the Chief Justice. At least the President does not have to obey the Whip. -
Reason No. 2
Electoral support can't be a criterion for using public fund.Can a HDB officer,govt doc,or policeman say u will be served later because u are from the opp. wards?
By denying opp. wards on using public fund for upgrading,the ppl there are classified as 2nd class citizens by the govt.Why should 2nd class citizens pay the same tax rate as 1st class citizens? -
Oxford,
Unfortunately,the President can be a govt man.So political reform is needed. -
GCT being a government scholar cannot understand simple logic and basic principle about government and duties and responsibilities of the leaders, then how can the people be expected to believe what he said as a leader?Originally posted by PRP:Reason No. 2
Electoral support can't be a criterion for using public fund.Can a HDB officer,govt doc,or policeman say u will be served later because u are from the opp. wards?
By denying opp. wards on using public fund for upgrading,the ppl there are classified as 2nd class citizens by the govt.Why should 2nd class citizens pay the same tax rate as 1st class citizens?
He has apparently committed a big mistake in telling Potong Pasir and Hougang people that if they elect opposition, they might not get the upgrading of their flats.
Lee Hsien Loong has delegated to GCT the task to win back these two wards.
MM Lee is supposed to be the mentor to the government who certainly would have to advise or mentor what is right and proper and good for the whole country and not just for Tajong Pakar or Ang Mo Kio. What should be his job scope as a mentor to the government?
Now we have just heard from Chiam See Tong of HDB causing some technicality in witholding initial approval for upgrading of lifts to serve every floor which were resolved only with some wrangling or difficulities.
What do all these mean to the whole business or electing government? Do we citizens elect MPs and government to serve all people or only certain people? If Ministers only serve certain people what recourse do we have other than refusing to elect them.
Are the scholars all like this - presented to the people as good and full of talents and abilities and people supposedly of high calibre but they call turn out to be selfish ? It is such a shame that high-calibre people are like this type?
If Lee Hsien Loong has invited people to debate them with robust arguments then he should check on such false fronts and hypocrisy and debate all these latest points presented in blogs and internets instead of asking for parliament power to clamp down on the views stated in the blogs and net.
With all these sorts of hypocrisy happening to our scholars one by one how can people be asked to vote for more scholars and to trust their judgments in looking after bigger matters like our reserve or creating jobs... -
Only YES MAN need apply
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Even if its FREE, FULLY SPONSORED BY CASH-RICH HDB, upgrading should not be a political issue as the $$$$$$ is still derived from the people.Originally posted by miongisback:They can only make Upgrading of HDB homes a legitimate political issue if
its FREE, FULLY SPONSORED BY CASH-RICH HDB ! -
lift upgrading is great, will they needed to look into the the reinforcement of the building too. -
P.U.P.
PAP's estate upgrading policy is linked to electoral support.The ministers lead the way!So HDB,LTA, NEA, MOH,MOE,SCDF & the police can all follow suit.PAP should change the name to PUP -- People's Unfair Party. -
GCT said he would RESPECT the choice of the opp. ward voters.If he honestly respect voter choice,then the govt shouldn't punish the wards which don't vote for PAP.So the govt should announce before the coming election that estate upgrading would be fairly given to all wards with no regards to electoral support.Would the govt or PAP do so?
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Kiasu & overkill
PAP has selected good quality candidates.It shouldn't be difficult for it to win election.Why should it use the estate upgrading to win votes?Even it uses est. upgrading to win votes,it shouldn't say PAP wards would have priority for upgrading.It is illegal & absolutely wrong govt policy.It is kiasu & overkill! -
The only reason why HDB upgrading can succeed as a political tool is simply because the people allow it.
The heartlanders WANT upgrading and WANT better amenities. They do not realise upgrading requires that household FORK OUT a percentage of the costs, or that it will take time before works are carried.
Just look at Potong Pasir: Where is the purported HDB upgrading promised even though the PAP received 45% of the votes in the last elections? Have the people forgotten the empty promises?
We have been too sidetracked by bread and butter issues and cowed by a political giant which stifles interest in national politics, with obscure OB markers defining restricted issues of discussion circumventing true freedom of speech.
Coupled by a KIASU mentality of always being FIRST for everything, can any singaporean stomach the thought of being left behind in a declared 'slum' (Goh CT's words) as compared to the vibrant districts of Bishan and Pasir Ris?