Internet political discourse "dangerous"
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When someone tells me he or she praised good and envy of our Country and Singaporeans as a whole, I would reply with a big thank you and further explained that Singaporeans did worked very hard for their own Assets and country infarstructures.Originally posted by pisces8:I totally agree with you that if we do bother to make comparison with other countries, there are plenty of differences, eg dead penalty, ISA, and etc. Yet at the end of the day, the differences do make Singapore tick, and the envy of many foreigners.
Just the Government to do it alone ? without the peoples endurance and hardship is never possible.
I urge our leaders to understands this simple logic, and let Singaporeans to cry-out loudly of their grievances, apply corrective actions to resolve issues sharply !
Let's give Singaporeans more space to excel to their own excellents, and most importantly must be very very humble to the WORLD ! because we're indeed a very small city state with only Singaporean as our country main resourses. -
It starts with yourself.Originally posted by BillyBong:Prior to this incident, i could have lifted more than 15 different inflamatory racist remarks made ( from sammyboi and other forums) that can easily fall under the catagory of sedition.
Yet the police chose to act only when a member of the forum made an official complaint because she felt the comments were DIRECTED at her.
Had the comments been made in a general manner and not directly implicating any individual, would the same thing have happened? Would a person have been offended enough to make a citizen's call for the greater good? Are we even at that level?
Our own people are too afraid to step out of their comfort zone to warn errant smokers at bus stops or lecture parents who yak on their cell phones in libraries while their kids run riot. We grow up with a subdued atmosphere cowed into a "mind my own business" attitude that we forget how to extend help or stand up against wrongful acts.
I once ticked off a bus driver for behaving rudely to a passenger while arguing with her over some EZ-Link discrepencies.He was pointing and gesticulating at her while accusing her of being a thief and a cheat, and refusing to let her explain her side of the story.
Not only that, the bastard stopped the bus 5 times in the middle of a road to go back to her seat and shouted accusations at her.I gave him a good lashing and he challenged me to be his witness, because he wanted to search his belongings. I told him that he must be utterly insane to think he has the right to search a female without a warrant under Singapore law.
And during this whole time, the other passengers didn't give two hoots.Apathetic truly.One day, it could be them at the mercy of a abusive bus driver, and you'd think they have someone to tick the arsehole off?I'd think not.
It makes me sick to be a Singaporean at times.They can even turn their noses up at a abusive driver raining abuse and slander on a 60-ish lady who even offered to pay compensation above her supposed fare to get him to shut up..
Wimps.Asswipes.
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Wanna use an analogy?Renewal of leadership.Originally posted by Devil1976:Somehow I just can't help thinking how DIRTY they're willing to go from the way they're doing things...
As much as I've got to ADMIT that they've contributed MUCH to the DEVELOPMENT of SINGAPORE...
BUT the FORM of DISRESPECT they GIVE to ITS PEOPLE... The FORM of DISHONESTY DISPLAYED... The REFUSAL to OPEN UP SINGAPORE to GENUINE DEBATES on ISSUES BASED on FREEDOM OF SPEECH...
Is already DRIVING UP ENOUGH DIRECT and INDIRECT SOCIAL PROBLEMS....
the PAP has been good for the development of Singapore till the 20th century.It's time for new blood, and evolution of Singapore in another way, not theirs.They do not have all the solutions to the challenges to our nation, especially in a fluid world where borders are shrinking and people walk out of their physical birthplace with a snap of a finger.
You want to ensure that there is no racism and inciting speech, you use the courts and prosecute it like a criminal offence, or allow a civil suit against the perp.You do not clamp down on political discussion just because this effervescence is likely to rally people and facilitate their common attitudes, perhaps to make real change in our narrative of history.
Talk is cheap, and I still wonder when I will get up from the floor. -
The press won't miss such an issue for sure. The thing is, the government is having a tight control of what can be printed, what cannot be. I won't be surprised if this won't hit headlines news if there are any of such cases.Originally posted by pisces8:If the government is going to make an example out of it, the information can be fed to the press and it will be page 1 news (just like the talk given by Dr Balaji. I don’t think the press will miss such “issue” if any of the case has gone to the Court.
If the police have been keeping a tight lip on such issues (if there is any such case in the first instant), it only encourages more such cases to happen, right.
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I followed a link provided here and found this article in the blog.
I think we all should get familiar with whats right and whats wrong to do in our country.
No decent caring Singaporean should shut up and not speak up for your people and country - if there is a need to and when policies get out of hand.
http://singabloodypore.blogspot.com/ -
i wont be apathetic lor. i would go tell him to shut the fark up and drive faster dun waste my time. especially when he stopped 5 times.........Originally posted by LazerLordz:It starts with yourself.
I once ticked off a bus driver for behaving rudely to a passenger while arguing with her over some EZ-Link discrepencies.He was pointing and gesticulating at her while accusing her of being a thief and a cheat, and refusing to let her explain her side of the story.
Not only that, the bastard stopped the bus 5 times in the middle of a road to go back to her seat and shouted accusations at her.I gave him a good lashing and he challenged me to be his witness, because he wanted to search his belongings. I told him that he must be utterly insane to think he has the right to search a female without a warrant under Singapore law.
And during this whole time, the other passengers didn't give two hoots.Apathetic truly.One day, it could be them at the mercy of a abusive bus driver, and you'd think they have someone to tick the arsehole off?I'd think not.
It makes me sick to be a Singaporean at times.They can even turn their noses up at a abusive driver raining abuse and slander on a 60-ish lady who even offered to pay compensation above her supposed fare to get him to shut up..
Wimps.Asswipes. -
tell that to the rest of the ah peks sitting down.Originally posted by hisoka:i wont be apathetic lor. i would go tell him to shut the fark up and drive faster dun waste my time. especially when he stopped 5 times.........
oh he stopped the bus in the turning box along the junction of alexandra road and tanglin road some more.
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you never complain him?Originally posted by LazerLordz:tell that to the rest of the ah peks sitting down.
oh he stopped the bus in the turning box along the junction of alexandra road and tanglin road some more.
i can't stand those idiots who waste my time one.
everytime i see the bus i sitting go slow i always feel like complaining and taking photos bring to press etc. but then i think pple makign a living and being forced one so i dun do it only -
Ya know, it's ironic that they listed the websites and blogs. Typical of the 140th shooting itself in the foot everytime.Originally posted by miongisback:I followed a link provided here and found this article in the blog.
I think we all should get familiar with whats right and whats wrong to do in our country.
No decent caring Singaporean should shut up and not speak up for your people and country - if there is a need to and when policies get out of hand.
http://singabloodypore.blogspot.com/
Guess those sites will have their ratings up in no time.It's free publicity, and once the population realises how well-reasoned those posts are, not to mention their rational logic... you can go and guess
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The tongue-lashing was after this particular stopping incident.Originally posted by hisoka:you never complain him?
i can't stand those idiots who waste my time one.
everytime i see the bus i sitting go slow i always feel like complaining and taking photos bring to press etc. but then i think pple makign a living and being forced one so i dun do it only
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I think u should complain to the bus company.Originally posted by LazerLordz:The tongue-lashing was after this particular stopping incident. -
Count himself lucky. The lady was threatening a police report already.Originally posted by will4:I think u should complain to the bus company.
He might have been unemployed now. -
I have manage to envision a utopia political debating outlet for country that are uniquely in nature, such as multi-racial or religions. It encompasses freedom of speech yet encourage politics enthusists to engage in a responsible and fair environment.
1. Purge all forums/websites from debating on political issue; alternatively is to issue permits to sites that engaged in politics debate. Failure to comply is chargable offence under law.
2. Each political party are free to have their one and only discussion website. Any discussion are strictly to be confined within, and no soliciting allow except on one's website. Open to general public.
3. To facilitate responsible and contructive comments, public may need to register to use any party's forum service.
4. Law still apply for user of these forums.
The key aspect of the four core points are to ensure that the general public are not swayed by unverfied comment or one person propaganda and embroil in a political turmoil, social chaos, civil unrest and hence disrupting peace, stability, trade and investment.
The only minus point for this proposal is that one's freedom of speech has been restricted but it main concern dealt only with the politics issue which is not everyone cup of tea and in my humble opinion is tradeable, little inconvenience in return for nation stability and economic values.
Just my 2 Cents... -
wrong wrong wrong. We are already the laughing stock on all major websites around the world for this action, please do not destroy our international reputation further. Your suggestion is easily manipulated by a ruling party.Originally posted by TooFree:I have manage to envision a utopia political debating outlet for country that are uniquely in nature, such as multi-racial or religions. It encompasses freedom of speech yet encourage politics enthusists to engage in a responsible and fair environment.
1. Purge all forums/websites from debating on political issue; alternatively is to issue permits to sites that engaged in politics debate. Failure to comply is chargable offence under law.
2. Each political party are free to have their one and only discussion website. Any discussion are strictly to be confined within, and no soliciting allow except on one's website. Open to general public.
3. To facilitate responsible and contructive comments, public may need to register to use any party's forum service.
4. Law still apply for user of these forums.
The key aspect of the four core points are to ensure that the general public are not swayed by unverfied comment or one person propaganda and embroil in a political turmoil, social chaos, civil unrest and hence disrupting peace, stability, trade and investment.
The only minus point for this proposal is that one's freedom of speech has been restricted but it main concern dealt only with the politics issue which is not everyone cup of tea and in my humble opinion is tradeable, little inconvenience in return for nation stability and economic values.
Just my 2 Cents...
Better to have a marketplace of ideas and free discussion and debate.Never ever try to sanitise politics to make it clean for a few.This is what is wrong with the country over the last 40 years, the depoliticising of Singapore.
Our current laws can take care of racial issues. -
PAP should really try to come to terms with the fact that with the advancement of information technology, communications and globalisation, they might now have to fight opposing voices on the merits rather than with a gag.
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Originally posted by pisces8:
The fact that the two Bloggers were prosecuted under the Sedition Act for posting on the net, already confirm that no one is safe from the Singapore Government aka the Ruling Political Party, even when posting in the free world-wide web.
Original post by Atobe:
Is it " that difficult to 'police' (prosecute) " anyone using the internet that contravene existing laws ?
Have you so quickly forgotten the prosecution of the TWO Singaporean Bloggers for their racist remarks on the internet towards the Singaporean Minority Community ?
Please note that I am referring to the fact that I have not known of people being prosecuted (successfully) under “Election Advertising Rules – 2001”.
The few Bloggers were charge and some convicted under different law – Sedition Act.
They are different issue. I will not mix them up.
With a specific Law that target Singapore commentators in the Web during the Election Period, it merely confirms that the Ruling Political Party continue to insist on its MONOPOLISTIC GRIP on ALL FORMS OF MEDIA that allow anyone a WIDE AND UNCONTROLLED ACCESS to reach the minds of Singaporeans. -
Can you imagine the same is applied when Election is to be conducted in Australia, European Union, Japan, South Korea, UK, and the USA ?Originally posted by TooFree:I have manage to envision a utopia political debating outlet for country that are uniquely in nature, such as multi-racial or religions. It encompasses freedom of speech yet encourage politics enthusists to engage in a responsible and fair environment.
1. Purge all forums/websites from debating on political issue; alternatively is to issue permits to sites that engaged in politics debate. Failure to comply is chargable offence under law.
2. Each political party are free to have their one and only discussion website. Any discussion are strictly to be confined within, and no soliciting allow except on one's website. Open to general public.
3. To facilitate responsible and contructive comments, public may need to register to use any party's forum service.
4. Law still apply for user of these forums.
The key aspect of the four core points are to ensure that the general public are not swayed by unverfied comment or one person propaganda and embroil in a political turmoil, social chaos, civil unrest and hence disrupting peace, stability, trade and investment.
The only minus point for this proposal is that one's freedom of speech has been restricted but it main concern dealt only with the politics issue which is not everyone cup of tea and in my humble opinion is tradeable, little inconvenience in return for nation stability and economic values.
Just my 2 Cents...
Even Politics are conducted without such laws being implemented in the neighboring countries of Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand, and Taiwan - and with most of the incumbents being popularly voted into office despite the influence of an OPEN DISCUSSION of a FREE PRESS and an UNBRIDLED FORUM OVER THE INTERNET in these respective countries.
Singapore a FIRST WORLD COUNTRY ?
It is a joke amongst most Singaporeans who knows what a true First World Country is about, but exist as reality in the minds of our Third World Elite Rulers. -
The political chaos in the 50's~60's was really bad! ISA Law is the only solution to prevent trouble making politician to damange our society and construction of our National Democracy for further damages.Originally posted by LazerLordz:wrong wrong wrong. We are already the laughing stock on all major websites around the world for this action, please do not destroy our international reputation further. Your suggestion is easily manipulated by a ruling party.
Better to have a marketplace of ideas and free discussion and debate.Never ever try to sanitise politics to make it clean for a few.This is what is wrong with the country over the last 40 years, the depoliticising of Singapore.
Our current laws can take care of racial issues.
The seceret societies in 60's~80's was really harmful to our peoples living, the Unlawful Assembly and Section 55 Law is also another good solution to prevent gangsterism to damage our peoples living peasefully.
But now, all these proven track records of good Law & Order solutions is being use to prevent democracy Referendums.
The only comment that I can give is "DOMINANT RULES & RULING" style had trained our new leaders becoming unreasonable and inconsiderate over issues that the people urging for changes for the betterment of our country. -
you've hit the nail on the head.It's a mix of bureaucracy and the inability to possess a different outlook/constrained by a certain influence of political angles in the party that has inhibited the ministers in how they interpret the realities on the ground today.Originally posted by SG,LauBaiXing:The political chaos in the 50's~60's was really bad! ISA Law is the only solution to prevent trouble making politician to damange our society and construction of our National Democracy for further damages.
The seceret societies in 60's~80's was really harmful to our peoples living, the Unlawful Assembly and Section 55 Law is also another good solution to prevent gangsterism to damage our peoples living peasefully.
But now, all these proven track records of good Law & Order solutions is being use to prevent democracy Referendums.
The only comment that I can give is "DOMINANT RULES & RULING" style had trained our new leaders becoming unreasonable and inconsiderate over issues that the people urging for changes for the betterment of our country.
Lack of empathy and a sensitivity to consequential actions is the hallmark of Singaporean administration today. -
So, Singaporeans must understands that it is the Peoples Country and not the ruling party country !Originally posted by LazerLordz:you've hit the nail on the head.It's a mix of bureaucracy and the inability to possess a different outlook/constrained by a certain influence of political angles in the party that has inhibited the ministers in how they interpret the realities on the ground today.
Lack of empathy and a sensitivity to consequential actions is the hallmark of Singaporean administration today.
Please Lah.............................................. -
You're absolutely spot on.Originally posted by LazerLordz:It starts with yourself.
I once ticked off a bus driver for behaving rudely to a passenger while arguing with her over some EZ-Link discrepencies.He was pointing and gesticulating at her while accusing her of being a thief and a cheat, and refusing to let her explain her side of the story.
Not only that, the bastard stopped the bus 5 times in the middle of a road to go back to her seat and shouted accusations at her.I gave him a good lashing and he challenged me to be his witness, because he wanted to search his belongings. I told him that he must be utterly insane to think he has the right to search a female without a warrant under Singapore law.
And during this whole time, the other passengers didn't give two hoots.Apathetic truly.One day, it could be them at the mercy of a abusive bus driver, and you'd think they have someone to tick the arsehole off?I'd think not.
It makes me sick to be a Singaporean at times.They can even turn their noses up at a abusive driver raining abuse and slander on a 60-ish lady who even offered to pay compensation above her supposed fare to get him to shut up..
Wimps.Asswipes.
What ticks me off mostly is not the bus driver, but the apathetic response from the rest of the passengers who treat both you and the agrieved passenger transparent.
A common example is the library. Even with widespread signs stating silence and 'no handphones allowed', adults continue blatantly disregard the warnings and leave their cell phones on HIGH RING TONE and TALK AT THE TOP OF THEIR VOICE. To such an extent that community libraries actually have a 'QUIET READING ROOM' designated in the library, an oxymoronic facility.
And this isn't an isolated incident. Imagine telling one such user off and next to you, another idiot's phone rings and the person answers it in plain view. This illustrates how disgusting and nonchalent we are now. Even the inspector assigned to jaga the library sometimes visibly gives up. -
Originally posted by LazerLordz:wrong wrong wrong. We are already the laughing stock on all major websites around the world for this action, please do not destroy our international reputation further. Your suggestion is easily manipulated by a ruling party.
Better to have a marketplace of ideas and free discussion and debate.Never ever try to sanitise politics to make it clean for a few.This is what is wrong with the country over the last 40 years, the depoliticising of Singapore.
Our current laws can take care of racial issues.
If medieval philosophers are able to come up with the political concept of liberalism, democracy, sociailism away from absolute monarchy, why couldnt Singapore too have its own group of philosophers who visionised a ultopian political system - Ultopism.Originally posted by Atobe:Can you imagine the same is applied when Election is to be conducted in Australia, European Union, Japan, South Korea, UK, and the USA ?
Even Politics are conducted without such laws being implemented in the neighboring countries of Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Thailand, and Taiwan - and with most of the incumbents being popularly voted into office despite the influence of an OPEN DISCUSSION of a FREE PRESS and an UNBRIDLED FORUM OVER THE INTERNET in these respective countries.
Singapore a FIRST WORLD COUNTRY ?
It is a joke amongst most Singaporeans who knows what a true First World Country is about, but exist as reality in the minds of our Third World Elite Rulers.
All men are borned equal. All nations are governed uniquely. What I seek are Singaporeans to be passionate and brave enough to redefine liberal/democracy system and to create a brand new world, a new nation, a new concept, a new system and a safe haven where we Singaporeans can rightfully call our uniquely home.
Together as one we forge our uniquely identity to the world.
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The trouble is that 'UTOPIA' is not that far off - if the ideal is shared by more then ONE PERSON.Originally posted by TooFree:If medieval philosophers are able to come up with the political concept of liberalism, democracy, sociailism away from absolute monarchy, why couldnt Singapore too have its own group of philosophers who visionised a ultopian political system - Ultopism.
All men are borned equal. All nations are governed uniquely. What I seek are Singaporeans to be passionate and brave enough to redefine liberal/democracy system and to create a brand new world, a new nation, a new concept, a new system and a safe haven where we Singaporeans can rightfully call our uniquely home.
Together as one we forge our uniquely identity to the world.
In an apathic environment such as Singapore, where everyone is merely an onlooker, not even daring to lift their voice to support even LazerLordz in his confrontation with a SMALL TIME BUS DRIVER BULLY - do you think
Singaporeans will have to courage to stand-up against anyone bigger ?
Why do you need to continue to "seek for Singaporeans to be passionate and brave enough to redefine liberal/democracy system, and to creat a brand new world, a new nation, a new concept, a new system and a safe haven where we Singaporeans can rightfully call our uniquely home " ?
Can you support Dr Chee Soon Juan ?
He seems to be spitting into a very strong wind, and it is blown back with gale force wind onto himself.
He is attempting what all of us are merely wishing we have the same resolve and temetery to challenge the POWER OF ONE - except that we seem to have MORE TO SACRIFICE than the good doctor.
Yet, CSJ seems to draw more contempt then support for all his efforts in pursuing his "UTOPIA" - without any empathy but cynical contempt.
If we cannot support ONE who dare to do what we are unable to do, why bother to search for anyone who will share in the same "UTOPIAN IDEAL" ?Ideals are like stars: you will not succeed in touching them with your hands, but like the seafaring man on the desert of waters, you choose them as your guides, and following them you reach your destiny.
Carl Schurz
Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear.
Ambrose Redmoon
Dare to do things worthy of imprisonment if you mean to be of consequence.
Juvenal (Decimus Junius Juvenalis)
Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny.
Edmund Burke
Laws control the lesser man. Right conduct controls the greater one.
Chinese Proverb
Men fight for freedom, then they begin to accumulate laws to take it away from themselves.
Author Unknown
The more corrupt the republic, the more numerous the laws.
Tacitus, Annals
You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality.
Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it.
Malcolm X -
Look, the reason why forums here have more active participation then the ones ot side of cyberspace is simple. Its because online every one can bea heared. there is freedom of speech and oppinion in a sense as opposed to the overly regulated public forums.Originally posted by TooFree:I agree.
In all fairness, debate or one's comment especially of political nature should be regulated or veto by another. This is to prevent untruthful attack on the government and undermine the nation as a whole. Reading one-sided story most often does not formed the complete picture and worst, distorting can be a will in the process when information are passed down. Hence it is not fair to any party or any person under scrutinization. It is also not hard to understand that a healthy debate should works two ways, ie a proposition and an opposition team.
Forums registered or provided by the government are not only safe boundary for healthy debating of national issue but also allow one to feedback. More insights, indepth understanding or criticism on government policy can be better achieved in that sense.
Its important to understand, that political views and debate is the right of every citizen in a democracy. Now even if these attacks on the goverment are of no truth, it is not the right of a democratically elected government to silence them with the full force of the law. They should defend themselves in a fair arena of debate.
You talk of distortion of truth. Does that mean u accept the ruling part's truth as the actual truth. We as citizens have a right to decide what truths we wanna believe in. It ur freedom of oppinion that is at the core of the idea of democracy.
Its important that we have available to us a gamut of ideas. Only then can we choose the one that fits us best.
To be told what to think seems really communist/authoratarian/dictatorish/monarchish.
I say we tell the goverment waht to do.. and not the other way around.
is it not irrelevent to have a party in power for so long?
Restructureing is needed. Since they like forign diverse talent soo much, how come parliment has no diversity of oppinion in the for of an opposition.
With larger opposition numbers in parliment i bet we, the common man will have a larger voice. Lets even up the odds -
Originally posted by BillyBong:
I think it pretty darn clear form that statement from Balaji that they fear the man that cannot be seen. Only cuz they cant sue the hell out him and sinlence him.
In response to Low Thia Khiang's question on the use of new technologies in parliament, Dr Balaji Sadasivan stated clearly that the use of PODCASTING is prohibited during elections.
Below is an section of his statements to round off the discussion:
[b]
It looks like not only do the ruling party want to use the internet for publicity purposes, they want a blanket monopoly on it too.
It's like building a public highway only for ministers and party members to drive on.
Doesn't he realise that the local political atmosphere coupled with the obscure OB markers have made open debate virtually impossible without fear of defamation suits?
Responsible and objective arguments? Bullocks. As if they can even accept objective criticisms from the public....
[/b]
Fear and Tyrany under a msak of Progress packages.... waht bull crap...