Dr Ng Eng Hen 'dodged' the question on NS Dodgers....
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there is a chinese saying that goes "good iron is not for making nails and good sons do not become soldiers."
and there is a good reason why certain quotes last through the centuries, if u get what i mean.
hey if malaysia invades us gimme a gun and i'll shoot their arses off any day but force me to be a cheap bodyguard for the despots..sorry no can't do. -
How do you intend to shoot any gun given to you, IF you can only be amongst the 'good sons' who 'do not become soldiers' ?Originally posted by vito_corleone:there is a chinese saying that goes "good iron is not for making nails and good sons do not become soldiers."
and there is a good reason why certain quotes last through the centuries, if u get what i mean. hey if malaysia invades us gimme a gun and i'll shoot their arses off any day but force me to be a cheap bodyguard for the despots..sorry no can't do.
If 'good iron' is not used for making nails, what can good iron be used for ?
Can 'good iron' hold itself against the malfisted despot, or will the 'good iron' allow itself to be maleable by the despot ?It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC)
To repeat what others have said, requires education; to challenge it, requires brains.
Mary Pettibone Poole,
A Glass Eye at a Keyhole,
1938
Experience is not what happens to a man; it is what a man does with what happens to him.
Aldous Huxley (1894 - 1963),
"Texts and Pretexts", 1932
Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment.
Barry LePatner
We need to restore the full meaning of that old word, duty.
It is the other side of rights.
Pearl Buck -
So I guuess13 years will be goiing to jail? ASKING HEREOriginally posted by NewAge:U see it as taking 2 yr out of when u are 20. ppl see it as losing 2 yr to make money that also means that the opportunity to be rich is miss by 2yr. Assuming that a graduate earn 2k per month. he earns 24k a year and 48k in two yr. That is excluding the non countable like the ability for promotion. The sum in which the gov give is much less that that. Plus the time taken for reservist how much do u think u lost?
Or their parents?
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Determined parents will still send their kid to overseas boarding school.
After all, it's cheap to buy an air ticket and cheaper to buy a second home and live in other countries.
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it only takes practice and not much brains to operate an m16...and good iron can be made into a hell lot of things..metal mixtures not included.Originally posted by Atobe: in this case the despots already control everything so no point arguing...strong fires melt iron..u dunno meh? you deserve a badge for blind conformity and loyalty. wait..make that a medal. -
Originally posted by vito_corleone:
Does it take only practice and not much brains to operate an m16 ?
it only takes practice and not much brains to operate an m16...and good iron can be made into a hell lot of things..metal mixtures not included. in this case the despots already control everything so no point arguing...strong fires melt iron..u dunno meh? you deserve a badge for blind conformity and loyalty. wait..make that a medal.
You must have been an outstanding recruit, and stripping the military "wife" must have come second nature to you - without any training from those "bad sons who became soldiers" ?
If all good sons do not become soldiers and good iron do not make nails, who are those who will teach the good sons to use the m16 and be good soldiers ?
Can iron outperform steel in all its derivitative forms ?
Iron is iron, steel is steel - if you know the difference between the two.
Even with chemicals added, can iron be stronger than steel ?
Thanks for the medal, but you can keep your iron and I will keep my steel. I can't believe that out of 10,000 sperm, you were the quickest.
Steven Pearl -
A friend of mine was a senior military officer involved in the running of the first few batches of NS servicemen. He told me that when Goh Keng Swee was tasked with setting up NS, many asked the same question, "Will Singaporeans fight?"
That was the least of his concern, though.."Just train them," Goh said, "when the enemy starts shooting at them, they'll fight." -
Back then, every military administration only knew about training and fighting a visible enemy aka 1.0.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:A friend of mine was a senior military officer involved in the running of the first few batches of NS servicemen. He told me that when Goh Keng Swee was tasked with setting up NS, many asked the same question, "Will Singaporeans fight?"
That was the least of his concern, though.."Just train them," Goh said, "when the enemy starts shooting at them, they'll fight."
I would think that the 1.0 way of fighting and thinking is no longer useful and a serious upgrade to 2.0 is imperative. Osama thinking?
2.0 is training and fighting an invisible enemy so that they can shoot back when the invisible enemy starts shooting.
That should be our concern today and tomorrow. -
It is true that the bigger security risk facing us today is terrorism rather than invasion by a hostile power. Perhaps there should be greater flexibility in the way NS servicemen are deployed.Originally posted by macjoe:Back then, every military administration only knew about training and fighting a visible enemy aka 1.0.
I would think that the 1.0 way of fighting and thinking is no longer useful and a serious upgrade to 2.0 is imperative. Osama thinking?
2.0 is training and fighting an invisible enemy so that they can shoot back when the invisible enemy starts shooting.
That should be our concern today and tomorrow.
In the present climate, perhaps more should be diverted to the police, civil service and anti-terrorism agencies rather than the army. Instead of fighter planes, perhaps we should acquire more bomb disposal equipment and technology instead?
How we train and deploy servicemen may and should change in my opinion, but certainly stringent laws against NS dodgers should stay. It is naive to think that all Singaporean males will serve NS willingly out of a sense of patriotism. It won't be called a sacrifice if it is just a walk in the park. But it is also a duty...and those who fail to do their duty must be taken to task. -
Where are the goverment when we go to war? Why must WE go to die when they are still alive (enjoying themself in a aircon room)? Wanna fight? Be fair and Lets go to the front line together (Including goverment and so on...)but i bet they won't! So why should i fight for singapore or should i say why shoud i fight for THEM!? If they wanna me to sacrifice for them then they can wait lonG lonG.........
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It is ironic then that Goh Keng Swee would choose such an analogy to explain the push factor to NS.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:A friend of mine was a senior military officer involved in the running of the first few batches of NS servicemen. He told me that when Goh Keng Swee was tasked with setting up NS, many asked the same question, "Will Singaporeans fight?"
That was the least of his concern, though.."Just train them," Goh said, "when the enemy starts shooting at them, they'll fight."
In truth, the main problem was never whether people would respond to ENEMY FIRE but whether they would willingly take up their rifle in the first place.
How were they ever going to convince people this was the right course of action? Well, there's a reason it's called conscription. -
"arguing over the internet is like running the special olympics. even if you win you're still retarded."Originally posted by Atobe: -
Then why U still come here? beat me to understand ppl who come and still feel so retarded?Originally posted by vito_corleone:"arguing over the internet is like running the special olympics. even if you win you're still retarded." 
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Winning or losing - does it really matter ?Originally posted by vito_corleone:"arguing over the internet is like running the special olympics. even if you win you're still retarded."
It is all a matter of perception.
Does it take great intelligence to view others as a retard ?
It is a state of mind of the observer.
Our prejudices are like physical infirmities - we cannot do what they prevent us from doing.
For a retard to be able to be in the special olympics - is an achievement.
A victory in itself.I think a hero is an ordinary individual who finds strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles.
Christopher Reeve
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
Sun-tzu (~400 BC),
The Art of War. Strategic Assessments
There are people so addicted to exaggeration they can't tell the truth without lying.
Josh Billings
The satirist shoots to kill while the humorist brings his prey back alive and eventually releases him again for another chance.
Peter De Vries
Be careful of your thoughts, they may become words at any moment.
Iara Gassen -
About some random thread, cant remember the title. Go check your past issues of The sunday times.Originally posted by BillyBong:Eh? Under what context?
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Don't argue bros, everyone are entitle for their own comment, if don't like it just forget it. No point arguing. Is bad for health to get angry too plus it make us age easilly.
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Exactly...if they cannot leave, they will stay and fightOriginally posted by BillyBong:In truth, the main problem was never whether people would respond to ENEMY FIRE but whether they would willingly take up their rifle in the first place. -
Lucky, I am not Mr NgOriginally posted by BillyBong:
I will declare whoever escape from NS will sent to jail for 6 motnhs. (No fine, etc). The offencers will be escorted back to face the charges. Then 2 years of army.
All foreign migrated to singapore below 40 years old must serve 2 years NS. Else not allowed to stay here to work.
PR and female singaporean also must serve 2 years NS.
All for one and one for all. I think all must agree. (Don't tell me USA, UK problems. Thanks) Lucky I am not him... -
Ai Yah, those ppl at the crack-ko place still need more crack-oks to figure how to punish ppl with lame excuses..one good one is to kill someone and make the rest kow-tow in responses and see if the N.S death rate get to go lower than below 14 years old!Originally posted by king108:Lucky, I am not Mr Ng
I will declare whoever escape from NS will sent to jail for 6 motnhs. (No fine, etc). The offencers will be escorted back to face the charges. Then 2 years of army.
All foreign migrated to singapore below 40 years old must serve 2 years NS. Else not allowed to stay here to work.
PR and female singaporean also must serve 2 years NS.
All for one and one for all. I think all must agree. (Don't tell me USA, UK problems. Thanks) Lucky I am not him... 
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Originally posted by alien2:Ai Yah, those ppl at the crack-ko place still need more crack-oks to figure how to punish ppl with lame excuses..one good one is to kill someone and make the rest kow-tow in responses and see if the N.S death rate get to go lower than below 14 years old! Touych wood..but something fate is unavoidable that the young man will die at young age or during training. What needed to do is to improve the training system. For the death, may be pay $1M to the parent and free medical care for their life. Govt to take care of them till they are gone.
What's there to fine peoples..money to rich people is "small small water". To poor people is a life penalty..
Just apply what I stated, you will see how many will detour when reaching singapore. -
dear king108Originally posted by king108:Lucky, I am not Mr Ng
I will declare whoever escape from NS will sent to jail for 6 motnhs. (No fine, etc). The offencers will be escorted back to face the charges. Then 2 years of army.
All foreign migrated to singapore below 40 years old must serve 2 years NS. Else not allowed to stay here to work.
PR and female singaporean also must serve 2 years NS.
All for one and one for all. I think all must agree. (Don't tell me USA, UK problems. Thanks) Lucky I am not him...
6 months in jail.. What do you mean by " The offencers will be escorted back to face the charges "? Are you implying that those outside Singapore will also be arrested?
cheers -
Yes
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I see. Wow.. That means Singapore needs to sign extradiction treaty with every country in the world. Lets say if some countries do not wish to sign the treaty... Then what would happen? Will the "Secret Police" of Mindef still go around and kidnap those people?Originally posted by king108:Yes -
Make it a law..
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Law... Will that law be legally binding in other countries? I do not think so...Originally posted by king108: Make it a law..
For example that poor Australian guy that was hanged... He is an Australian but was under the mercy of Singapore Law because he is in Singapore territory and despite being a Australian citizen; the Australia's legal system and law would not have a binding effect.
Likewise if lets say a Singaporean is legally staying in Australia( maybe he has a Australian passport and citizenship by birth ) then he is under the mercy of the Australian legal system and the "law" from Singapore is not legally binding... Unless Singapore makes that Australia part of her own sovereign territory which to me, that is highly unlikely.