Latest Election Lawsuit
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I was talking about somewhere near Lancelin too. Dandarangan Bay...Originally posted by iveco:Maybe you should try Lancelin instead. It is a lovely fishing and diving spot just over 100 km north of Perth. -
PM in today's ST said that if we don't have defamation law, we will end up like USA where people say anything about the President without having to prove.Originally posted by PRP:Yah, why sue?Can't debate?PM & MM have stated their stand.So pls debate!
From past experiece,it look like SDP sure lose.
Why sue?The want to give donation to charity
But let's see... Don't the Americans always have the best President or at the the President that they want? Don't they have much more effective govt system?
With two strong competition between two major parties in USA, the govt always strive to do their best in what they are supposed to do.
You are right... Why sue and not debate? What is the point of election and GE rallies then?
Two question..
Did the PM say that the Opp Party playing "Cat chasing Mouse" game?
If he did, isn't that a defamation/insult too? -
I am actually quite concerned if the Defamation Law and Lawsuits will eventually be misused or abused.
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At least SDP got the guts to say that out.
Foolish or not, at least somebody ddi it.
However, NKF issue shd not be used in this Election.
Other issues can be raised that will touch the hearts of people.
The bread and butter issues.
Rising costs VS Actual salary (with stats to back up)
Monopoly of businesses, forcing SMEs to suffer.
Old retail shops in estates not getting enuff incentives, forced to close due to businesses affected by NTUC & such.
Having casino debates when Govt eventually decides to build one.
Rational of double/triple taxes.
Why only have non-recordable cameras in MRTs previously, must wait until tragedy happen install them at teh cost of the people?
Etc...
Opposition parties shld try to target the young thru popular media.
The older folks are only more concerned of bread n butter issues.
No use targetiing topics like Foreign Talents.
They are a norm and Foreign Talents will surely vote for the Gov. -
It's not a good move, because NKF is not something that has disappeared from the public's mind.And the public will not cease discussion like before, and they have seen what sort of things can be hidden when lawsuits are piled upon the "whistle-blower" whether the truth is there, is another issue.
What is the issue here is how revelations may be treated, and I'm sure even the heartlanders are none too pleased with what's going on. The general sentiment is one of disagreement and tsk-tsking. -
i feel NKF should not be discussed at the moment
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Actually, they should be talking on accounting controlsOriginally posted by antoh:i feel NKF should not be discussed at the moment
Already what happened to Enron, is already here -
Did you forget what LKY said in the American International School ?Originally posted by Honeybunz:PM in today's ST said that if we don't have defamation law, we will end up like USA where people say anything about the President without having to prove.
But let's see... Don't the Americans always have the best President or at the the President that they want? Don't they have much more effective govt system?
With two strong competition between two major parties in USA, the govt always strive to do their best in what they are supposed to do.
You are right... Why sue and not debate? What is the point of election and GE rallies then?
Two question..
Did the PM say that the Opp Party playing "Cat chasing Mouse" game?
If he did, isn't that a defamation/insult too?
Now he say that we are not allow to follow the Ameriacans ?
This is real stink S.H.I.T. to make me believe what he said is truth ! -
Has anyone read/heard the litigation whereby 2 activists sued the UK Court for having unconstitutional defamation law over EU Court? The activists not only won the case, but also had the English defamation law ammended.
The EU judges ordered the UK government to change its defamation law from intially, only the defendent has to prove his claims to now both parties must prove their claims.
Even before the UK government amended their defamation law, the sueing of opposition politicians by members of the ruling party is unheard of anyway. -
Yes, but we don't have a East Asian Community and a supranational Parliament and legal system to do so.Originally posted by geodome:Has anyone read/heard the litigation whereby 2 activists sued the UK Court for having unconstitutional defamation law over EU Court? The activists not only won the case, but also had the English defamation law ammended.
The EU judges ordered the UK government to change its defamation law from intially, only the defendent has to prove his claims to now both parties must prove their claims.
Even before the UK government amended their defamation law, the sueing of opposition politicians by members of the ruling party is unheard of anyway.
Sigh. -
i guess Dr Chee will probably remain a bankrupt in his life if he keep continue to make these statements
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If he know hokien, he may tell you "Ka Chng Heng Du Kan"Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
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em asshole too big? means wadOriginally posted by king108:If he know hokien, he may tell you "Ka Chng Heng Du Kan" -
From the numbers of votes in the previous US election, more than half the US population will not agree with you. They have a college vote system, different accounting practice. AND NO they do not have a more effective govt system, they have a lot of well paid lobbyists... very well paid and powerful. (Bill Clinton and Cigar....in the White House brings back any memory?)Originally posted by Honeybunz:PM in today's ST said that if we don't have defamation law, we will end up like USA where people say anything about the President without having to prove.
But let's see... Don't the Americans always have the best President or at the the President that they want? Don't they have much more effective govt system?
With two strong competition between two major parties in USA, the govt always strive to do their best in what they are supposed to do.
You are right... Why sue and not debate? What is the point of election and GE rallies then?
Two question..
Did the PM say that the Opp Party playing "Cat chasing Mouse" game?
If he did, isn't that a defamation/insult too?
Not sure if I am being rude, but there are two sayings in chinese "gentlemen use words not fist" and "scholar meet hooligans (they use soldiers but they actually mean hooligans), got reason also very difficult to say". Sorry for offending anyone, don't sue me hor. -
Jackpot! If you allow me, I totally agree with you. There are alot of inperfections out there with policies and day-to-day living concerns. Please please please bring those up for debate and let this election result in something good for the people of Singapore.Originally posted by dotaro:At least SDP got the guts to say that out.
Foolish or not, at least somebody ddi it.
However, NKF issue shd not be used in this Election.
Other issues can be raised that will touch the hearts of people.
The bread and butter issues.
Rising costs VS Actual salary (with stats to back up)
Monopoly of businesses, forcing SMEs to suffer.
Old retail shops in estates not getting enuff incentives, forced to close due to businesses affected by NTUC & such.
Having casino debates when Govt eventually decides to build one.
Rational of double/triple taxes.
Why only have non-recordable cameras in MRTs previously, must wait until tragedy happen install them at teh cost of the people?
Etc...
Opposition parties shld try to target the young thru popular media.
The older folks are only more concerned of bread n butter issues.
No use targetiing topics like Foreign Talents.
They are a norm and Foreign Talents will surely vote for the Gov. -
Aiyo, its a matter of value system. We value integrity, their system value debate. Can't really say which is better as they exist in different environment. Why is it that people believe other people system is better? I admire American spirit of "can-do" attitude just as I admire Japanese "zero-defect, perfectionist" approach to everything but I am not incline to think either political system is better than ours. Not that I say our system is flawless, with every system, there is flaw. And ours is probably being dominated by one party. At the moment, it is doing well. In the future, who knows? When it fails, then we have to do something about it. Important thing is to find people with integrity and vision, set them loose to do their work. Can't imagine CEO of companies having to report to shareholders everyday, some are already questioning the need for quarterly report... It is driving towards a short sighted approach to making profits, not good for companies in the longer term when low hanging fruits are all plucked and no investment for future.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Yes, but we don't have a East Asian Community and a supranational Parliament and legal system to do so.
Sigh. -
Originally posted by pierre^^:em asshole too big? means wad Why you so like that.. I meant stretched leg let you fond only...
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We cannot wait for failures to happen.A nation like Singapore cannot afford to have failures when our institutions are not really strengthened yet.Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:Aiyo, its a matter of value system. We value integrity, their system value debate. Can't really say which is better as they exist in different environment. Why is it that people believe other people system is better? I admire American spirit of "can-do" attitude just as I admire Japanese "zero-defect, perfectionist" approach to everything but I am not incline to think either political system is better than ours. Not that I say our system is flawless, with every system, there is flaw. And ours is probably being dominated by one party. At the moment, it is doing well. In the future, who knows? When it fails, then we have to do something about it. Important thing is to find people with integrity and vision, set them loose to do their work. Can't imagine CEO of companies having to report to shareholders everyday, some are already questioning the need for quarterly report... It is driving towards a short sighted approach to making profits, not good for companies in the longer term when low hanging fruits are all plucked and no investment for future.
We have to be humble enough to learn from everyone, even US is learning from Switzerland on electronic voting procedures.Not wholesale adoption mind you, but to move on, we have to admit the flaws with the system and attempt to correct it. A climate must also exist for attempts of correction to exist.It might not happen overnight, but the future for Singapore cannot rely on just one faction, because they may be good now, but no one knows the future.To wait for failure to happen, is like shutting the barn door after the horse has escaped.
Singapore is a financial hub, if anything should happen, investor confidence will evaporate overnight.Political stability and democratic institutions have to grow hand in hand, so do pluralism and social justice, because we are not just Singapore Inc, but also a nation and a Republic. -
I agree with the thrust of the argument. What I think different is that the key lies not in JUST processes, the key lies in the Quality & Integrity of the people. The people that we elect to take office. I tend to believe, any process, check and balance system can be peverted to benefit oneself if one tries hard enough to do so. If it cannot be done by a person, then it can be done by a group. Call me naive, but I think what distinguish one person from another (one graduate from another) is CHARACTER, not how capable one is, or how articulate or how funny he is.Originally posted by LazerLordz:We cannot wait for failures to happen.A nation like Singapore cannot afford to have failures when our institutions are not really strengthened yet.
We have to be humble enough to learn from everyone, even US is learning from Switzerland on electronic voting procedures.Not wholesale adoption mind you, but to move on, we have to admit the flaws with the system and attempt to correct it. A climate must also exist for attempts of correction to exist.It might not happen overnight, but the future for Singapore cannot rely on just one faction, because they may be good now, but no one knows the future.To wait for failure to happen, is like shutting the barn door after the horse has escaped.
Singapore is a financial hub, if anything should happen, investor confidence will evaporate overnight.Political stability and democratic institutions have to grow hand in hand, so do pluralism and social justice, because we are not just Singapore Inc, but also a nation and a Republic.
As the election unfolds, I would have liked more alternatives being thrown out for all to see and ultimately be informed of the decision taken. I subscribe to the thinking that the average should listen to the smart, or some would call the elite. We see doctor when we are sick, because we believe that doctors are knowledgable to curing us. If a doctor advise us to rest and take medicine, then should we exercise our "rights" and not take medicine? I think I am not smart so I think I should listen to those who are.
It strikes me as odd that generally people believe that opposition parties can provide a check and balance to the ruiling party. I pose a question, if the ruiling party looses this election, then in the next election, they will be an opposition party and then do we say lets vote them in to check the ruiling party? Is this the solution?
Not all government policies are encompassing or some say inclusive. There are flaws. While I hope more can be done to improve these flaws, I think overall, the PAP government has done a great job and am quite certain the current crop of opposition parties are not able to match. -
If you've read up on pluralistic democracy, it is a system where the people are the ultimate decider.If Party A gets voted in, and does a good job, they will keep their place.Now.. Party A has done a good job in 30 years, but right now, the signs are that they have lost the ability to really govern like their predecessors.However, they think they are still right, and are able to hoodwink the people that it is so, through media spin, education spinoffs etc etc and oppressive legalism that seeks to close off any space for Party B.Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:I agree with the thrust of the argument. What I think different is that the key lies not in JUST processes, the key lies in the Quality & Integrity of the people. The people that we elect to take office. I tend to believe, any process, check and balance system can be peverted to benefit oneself if one tries hard enough to do so. If it cannot be done by a person, then it can be done by a group. Call me naive, but I think what distinguish one person from another (one graduate from another) is CHARACTER, not how capable one is, or how articulate or how funny he is.
As the election unfolds, I would have liked more alternatives being thrown out for all to see and ultimately be informed of the decision taken. I subscribe to the thinking that the average should listen to the smart, or some would call the elite. We see doctor when we are sick, because we believe that doctors are knowledgable to curing us. If a doctor advise us to rest and take medicine, then should we exercise our "rights" and not take medicine? I think I am not smart so I think I should listen to those who are.
It strikes me as odd that generally people believe that opposition parties can provide a check and balance to the ruiling party. I pose a question, if the ruiling party looses this election, then in the next election, they will be an opposition party and then do we say lets vote them in to check the ruiling party? Is this the solution?
Not all government policies are encompassing or some say inclusive. There are flaws. While I hope more can be done to improve these flaws, I think overall, the PAP government has done a great job and am quite certain the current crop of opposition parties are not able to match.
Now if against the odds, Party B gets elected, and the people like their style of doing things, they will remain in power.And when Party B removes all barriers to real democracy, if they are voted out of power due to some mistakes, at least it proves that the SYSTEM has been strengthened.
This analogy is something which should be taught to the masses..It is the SYSTEM that is more important than the party. -
I beg to differ. Perhaps my experience with system gave me a rather negative perspective of its viability. System can be manipulated. Look at NKF, US Oliver North, Enron, etc etc. Did painfully set up accountability system not fail when People are of dubious character plot to enrich themselves? Did a corrupt trader not bring down 100+ year old bank? Did the Ivory coast not inherit a comprehensive system of governance? I tend to believe that system and process is failable but a person character that can withstand a thousand degree of heat will not crack when trouble or temptation come. Unfortunately, there is no sure method of validating a person character. In a population of 3+ million, finding a few good men is really all we need and all we are fortunate to have.Originally posted by LazerLordz:If you've read up on pluralistic democracy, it is a system where the people are the ultimate decider.If Party A gets voted in, and does a good job, they will keep their place.Now.. Party A has done a good job in 30 years, but right now, the signs are that they have lost the ability to really govern like their predecessors.However, they think they are still right, and are able to hoodwink the people that it is so, through media spin, education spinoffs etc etc and oppressive legalism that seeks to close off any space for Party B.
Now if against the odds, Party B gets elected, and the people like their style of doing things, they will remain in power.And when Party B removes all barriers to real democracy, if they are voted out of power due to some mistakes, at least it proves that the SYSTEM has been strengthened.
This analogy is something which should be taught to the masses..It is the SYSTEM that is more important than the party.
There is no merit to say that all government policies are flawless, just as to say all judges make perfect judgement. In totality, the government has done a fantastic job and existing pool of opposition candidates do not have enough to match (I do give them lots of brownie points for having the courage to stand before cynical Singaporeans and articulate their thoughts). It may not be fair to say that they are not capable since they have not been given a chance to perform. I learn this from my school gym, "you keep fit to play and not play to keep fit".
We are a small country with little reserves (please look at some US investment group warchest, we are really... peanuts). There is little room for mistakes, so I tend to think we need proven people at the helms and not have trainee to prove their worth. Is there other avenues for them to prove their worth, I am not sure. Who says life is fair?