PM Lee, MM Lee demand apology from SDP for NKF remarks
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hmm.. why only the lees sue? what about the goh? the teo? the mah? and all the other rest??
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SDP is all about civil rights and liberty.
I'm sick of people who call opp parties hooligans, yet they're bullshhiting how bad the PAP is. Why such double standard? It's sad but you guys are actually empowering PAP this way and giving away more authority to them.
Can't you guys realise the fundamental aspect of civil liberty and freedom is to rise against the authoritarian rule? Do you see whats happening to Nepal right now? You guys are wimps, real wimps!! -
You see, the problem with your argument is it appears, at least to me, that you assume, or rather, you imply that CSJ has spread lies about the parties concerned.Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:Try this, PLCK1973 I know you cheated in exam and dip your hands into the company fund. I strongly suspect you fake your degree. I also know you cover up the time when your project failed and blame it on the new boy in the team. To silence him, you get him fired. I also know you are flirting with the new hire, behind your spouse back.
If you do not want to hammer me after I spread that in your workplace and home, I can only suspect you have no integrity.
I have the benefit of not being a politician and will go up to someone who spread lies about me to tell him to go swim in the bermuda triangle.
Do you know that by implying someone, esp a politican a liar, you can be sued in defamation in Singapore? Just look up Mr Tang Liang Hong's case.
You've gotta be more careful than that i tell ya...
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It appears from some of the posts here, that Chee has lost all credulbility.
Sad really, but aside from whether or not that is justified, at the very least, I think Chee should be respected for having the courage of his convictions.
I am certainly not as willing as him to fight for my beliefs and, I suspect, this applies to the majority here. -
Senior Counsel of MM and PM had consulted Queen's Counsel before
told MM ans PM there is a case to sue.SC gave the answer
in 2 hours.Read STimes lah.
I guess if SDP ask for QC to fight in Court, both LEE will agree.
There will be a long quene of QC to act free of charge for
Singapore Democrats in the name of democracy ,of course,and a once in life chance cover by
international media.
Will LEE ask QC to fight? Or just Spore SC to fight?
I am waiting for this drama to unfold. -
Personally I really don't mind supporting the opposition .. IF they would show me they can do a better job than the PAP... Not picking on those little rubbish that is totally irrelevant to Singapore's future... I can't imagine people like that ruling for Singapore.. probably ruin the small island more than its good. Opposition should do something more solid than just baseless coments.
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people uprise when their life is affected, not when you hav a stable income and a house to go back to, with no worries for three meals, children with good schools, enrichment classes, tuitions, and have streets safe to walk on even at night....so wat civil rights do you wan??? an opposition that just defame the government without solid evidence?? i dun mind having an opposition, but the real jobs of these people is to come up with solid plans for the better of singapore and solve practical problems, not going around saying wat is no good or wat wrong did the government do...Originally posted by katatonic:SDP is all about civil rights and liberty.
I'm sick of people who call opp parties hooligans, yet they're bullshhiting how bad the PAP is. Why such double standard? It's sad but you guys are actually empowering PAP this way and giving away more authority to them.
Can't you guys realise the fundamental aspect of civil liberty and freedom is to rise against the authoritarian rule? Do you see whats happening to Nepal right now? You guys are wimps, real wimps!!
you wan democracy?? just look at taiwan, they have plenty of oppositions that claims to fight for democracy...they even fight in the parliament for you to see. and have you any idea how much bad debt does taiwan have?? give you a clue, it is in mulitples of billions. And do you know how much reserves does singapore have??? ever wonder how did singapore survive the asian financial crisis??? so you prefer to have more rights or you prefer to hav no job tomorrow?? wake up your idea!!!! -
Isn't the point that everyone should be entitled to voice their opinions about political issues freely without being slapped with defamation suits? At the end of the day, SDP has always been concerned with policies as much as with the policymakers themselves, and there is a fine line between the two. Shoudn't there therefore be more latitude for expressing grouses in the political arena? Just like celebrities who are expected to be able to fend off public scrutiny, politicians too must have thicker skin when criticised instead of taking things personally.
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PAP is not trying to put them down.Originally posted by katatonic:SDP is all about civil rights and liberty.
I'm sick of people who call opp parties hooligans, yet they're bullshhiting how bad the PAP is. Why such double standard? It's sad but you guys are actually empowering PAP this way and giving away more authority to them.
Can't you guys realise the fundamental aspect of civil liberty and freedom is to rise against the authoritarian rule? Do you see whats happening to Nepal right now? You guys are wimps, real wimps!!
But as a gentleman and responsible person, you ought to say something that may slander to other person. -
To the detractors, do you have the courage and the brass ones to stand up for your own beliefs?
Don't hide behind the veil of legalism and cower. -
I agree with you .... up to a point ..... most people can recognize frivolous one-liners, like the "bullet in the lee's family head" talk by chaps like iveco and filter them out ... just like we gossip about starlets and celebrities in here, I agree that that politicians must have thicker skin to take these kinds of talk too .....Originally posted by Rexdriver:Isn't the point that everyone should be entitled to voice their opinions about political issues freely without being slapped with defamation suits? At the end of the day, SDP has always been concerned with policies as much as with the policymakers themselves, and there is a fine line between the two. Shoudn't there therefore be more latitude for expressing grouses in the political arena? Just like celebrities who are expected to be able to fend off public scrutiny, politicians too must have thicker skin when criticised instead of taking things personally.
But ... there has to be a line though, one can rant all he wants against someone, but when he impinges on another's integrity, casts doubts about his professional reputation, calls him dishonest and a liar, he's crossed a very clear boundary, it would be a valid suit under the laws of most western countries too. Further more, he is an opposition figure, not some ah pek ranting at the kopitiam while drinking his morning coffee, so just like any other politicians, incumbent or otherwise, he should expect to be held accountable to a different standards than a member of the general public
In anycase, no one here is getting dragged off in the middle of the night for being in the opposition, isn't not like "big brother" is watching us ... (heck, just look at some of the posts on this forum) ... chaps in the opposition who harbour delusions of "martyrdom" and "granduer" are kidding themselves ... and alienating the voters in my opinion .... they are certainly no "Ghandis" ... I said it before in another post and I say it again, a certain decorum must always exist in politics, to prevent a slide into sensationalism and a scandal driven, cheap shots ridden political circus .... We want more Mr Lows, and Mr Chiams, not the rabble that is the SDP .....
(neways, just a sidetrack ... I have this feeling that the real thing to watch for in this election would not be the number of opposition candidates voted into parliament; there won't be much surprises there .... but the number of void and invalid votes .... ) -
sometimes i really question the existence of SDP? are they trule opposition party or decoy for the existing. xxx party.
it make no common sense for the whole party member to make such a accusation at the Elite top minister. and normally such a stupid accusation will give ruling party the reason to discredit the all opposition party.
about the NKF issue. SDP indeed make wrong accusation on baseless foundation. instead the accusation should be base on the accountability of top govt official. where is it? who should resign except the NKF former top exec? where is govt goverance to compliment the corp goverance? -
Poor Mr Ling is now being linked reluctantly to a lawsuit.
Poor Mr Wong being played around like a Toy. That's why I say "Don't play play.
Then there is this poor fellow called Achooro or Achiro or Arthero or whatever Ro who did not actually have a Role in the whole thing. -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
I think you have a very shallow understanding of what law suits are about. People do not only sue because the other party has acted illegally (though in Singapore, legality can be a very nuanced and uncertain concept). People sometimes use law suits as a tactic.
Senior Counsel of MM and PM had consulted Queen's Counsel before
told MM ans PM there is a case to sue.SC gave the answer
in 2 hours.Read STimes lah.
I guess if SDP ask for QC to fight in Court, both LEE will agree.
There will be a long quene of QC to act free of charge for
[b]Singapore Democrats in the name of democracy ,of course,and a once in life chance cover by
international media.
Will LEE ask QC to fight? Or just Spore SC to fight?
I am waiting for this drama to unfold.
[/b]
One, defamation trials can be very very expensive to defend because ofthen there are many complex technical and evidentiary issues to deal with. To illustrate, England's longest trial, lasting about TEN years, was a defamation trial. Look up "McLibel".
Two, the damages awarded in Singapore fro defamation is, imo, out of all proportion to whatever harm the words concerned has caused. Look up mr Tang's case.
So the fact that someone has decided to sue does not neccessarily mean that he thinks he has a good case. It could mean that he thinks he can scare the other party into submission because maybe he has more resources to throw around.
Further, you seem to confuse having a good cause of action as somehow meaining that he is 'right' to sue. Surely you cannot be so naive? Again, I would suggest you look up Mr tang's case.
TBH, I am not surprised that LKY is still up to his nonsense. -
Again, by saying that the comments are "baseless", you seem to be implying that the opposition conceerned are liars. This seems very much like defamation to me. You are in Singapore aren't you?Originally posted by banzie:Personally I really don't mind supporting the opposition .. IF they would show me they can do a better job than the PAP... Not picking on those little rubbish that is totally irrelevant to Singapore's future... I can't imagine people like that ruling for Singapore.. probably ruin the small island more than its good. Opposition should do something more solid than just baseless coments.
But I agree with you to an extent Re the opposition. The problem with the opposition, imo is that there is simply not enough of them around. Those that are around seem to have a very socialist ideal. But, of course, the lack of variety here is, imo, due to the Singapore government and the judiciary. The soln to that is to vote more opposition members in, and bring some accountability to government. Remember, it is almost imnpossible for the opposition to take power in this elections. So this election isn't really about deciding who will form a government.
By putting more oppotion into parliament, what will happen is that the seeds of a vibrant, political scene where voters have a realistic choice will be planted. parliament will become an altogether healthier institution where tough questions and issues are raised and there is thorough debate before any important decisions are made. I think that is worth voting for. -
PM Lee, MM Lee who will be suing the SDP for NKF remarks, is akin to using nuclear weapons just to kill the cockroaches. Shame on them.
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Ironically ,according to science reports , cockroaches are known to be able to survive radiation.Originally posted by Spirit of Fire:PM Lee, MM Lee who will be suing the SDP for NKF remarks, is akin to using nuclear weapons just to kill the cockroaches. Shame on them. -
He has been convicted for spreading untruths against PAP leaders....I think that is commonly called lying..Originally posted by lwflee:you imply that CSJ has spread lies about the parties concerned. -
Conviction..
I have my doubts about that. But that's another matter altogether.
Fatum's right about one thing, the invalid/spoilt vote issue might be something not expected by many.. -
"Convicted"? You seem to imply that he has been found guilty of lieing about PAP leaders in a criminal trial, that is, Beyond reasonable doubt.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:He has been convicted for spreading untruths against PAP leaders....I think that is commonly called lying..
I thought, and I might be wrong so correct me If iam wrong, he was merely 'proved' to have lied in a civil court where the burden of proof is merely on the balance of probabilites! Again, a lesser man might take offence and decide that you have harmed his reputation and hence, defamed him.
In any case, that seems irrelevent really. The Sting here is the implication that he is lying in this instance. -
Before anybody critcise Chee soon juan,have you read the articles that the pap claimed was defamatory...?????Did you base your judgement just based on what the pro-pap straits times wrote...?????The straits times did not even publish the articles so what makes you think Chee is as bad as you think he is..???Why not have an open mind and read it yourself so that you get both sides of the storey before you jump into conclusion and judge Chee pre-maturely...?????
I read it and my conclusions was that it was a really beautiful and intelligently written article .Just FANTASTIC...!!!!!! I read it on the SDP newspaper and was amazed that I could not find anything defamatory at all in the articles regarding NKF and there was almost no mention of Lee Kuan yew except for 1 sentence and zero mention of Lee hsien Loong so how could these 2 have been defamed...?????Really ridiculous.
You can also read these 2 articles at this USA website:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/sammyboymod/messages Check under the coffee shop talk under the topic:the NKF articles defamatory????
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In the end I came to the conclusion that perhaps the Pap just want to put Chee in a bad light so they say they want to sue him for this and for that but in the end after reading it myself,my impression of Chee Soon Juan instead improved dramatically .All that he said in the articles were what many of us Singaporeans had wanted to ask the Pap and they were matters of public interest.And the fact that the pap so desperately wanted to stop him from speaking up and even told people not to pass around the newspapers to others after reading just show how frightened the pap is about Singaporeans reading the article.If the Pap has done nothing wrong then they should not get excited or frightened but just let the people read what they ought to read.Don't censor.This is a matter of great public concern
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I believe most Singapore citizens like the SDP want the Pap to be transparent and to keep them informed of matters directly affecting them and their future and so they want the Pap to:
1)Tell us how the Government investment Corporation uses our savings for investment
2)Disclose the details regarding the costs and profits of building HDB flats and how the profits are being used.
3)Disclose the salaries of the top executives of Temasek Holdings and other GLCs.
4)Declare the assets and incomes of all the Ministers.
5)Reform the election system to ensure it is free and fair.
All these are very reasonable and fair questions.If the pap is frightened by such questions and resort to sueing for defamation it means that something is really wrong so please, for the good of the nation stop all these nonsense defamation suits and answer to the people -
You can just go to the SDP office along serangoon Rd opposite the fire station at unit 1357A Serangoon Rd.It's a shophouse just a short 15 minutes walk from Boon Keng Mrt station.Call the telephone 63981675 before you go down.The newspaper is just $2 or $3 and if you want you can also donate some money for them in their election canmpaign.
I bought my newspaper there also because i wanted to read for myself the articles so i could see for myself who is telling the truth.Even if you are pro-pap but open minded and fair ,you will conclude that there is nothing defamatry at all on those NKF .Just go and find out for yourself the truth.Don't just read the straits times.The straits times is a real disappointment because what they wrote regarding the defamation and what I read in the articles tell me 2 completely different stories -
See the parallels or similarities between Durai's initial lawsuits against the 2 ex-employees of NKF and this new pap lawsuit against the SDP.
In the NKF cases, the ex employees of NKF both lost because they were denied access to information and evidence, not because they were wrong. They were eventually proved right. In fact they did not even lose but just settled out of court due to lack of financial resources.
Durai was able to win due to a lack of transparency and accountability which prevented access to information and also because of his strong financial strength..
Durai also employed the tactics of silencing and intimidation through defamation lawsuits.And now we see the Pap doing exactly the same thing as Durai,ie using defamation lawsuits to try to silence the opposition.
Clearly, justice was denied in the NKF case due to the lack of transparency and accountability. Without this, how can the public be sure that the suing party is right even if they win in court?
A victory in court doesn't imply that the truth and justice has prevailed. Only transparency and accountability can do that.
And how does the SDP get the evidence when the accounts of Temasek are so secretive and evasive...????????Why does the pap not open the account book of Temasek wide open to prove that there are really no hanky panky...??????Why so afraid....?????Who is playing the cat and mouse game here in this case..???????And by the way,the SDP did not say that Temasek is corrupted but they only ask that the Pap be more transparent regarding the accounts of Temasek so as not to follow the bad example of NKF.Anything wrong with that request...???