Is CSJ a hooligan politician as portrayed by our press?
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I been reading up several articles on the net. It seems to me he is more westernized firebrand type of politician. I also know the ruling party will go at lengths to turn the tide in their favour.
Is he really out to destroy Singapore or does he just care too much for the state of our country?
Do you have any good articles, links pls, i can read? -
in singapore, it's a different political arena altogether.
if u want to fight an enemy in his homeland, u play according to his rules.
even if CSJ has some agenda of his own or ettiquettes, he still need to play along according to the current rules. -
afaik the rules are bend towards the ruling party, heavily.
thats why i say politics is a gone case here. read today papers about WP new candidates. i give it to them for their fresh aspirations but dont think they will go places. -
After 40 years of anti-communist ISA rule, and 20 years of demise of communism, have we not achieved a certain degree of maturity?
If we have not then our ISA has not achieved its purposes and all the draconian policies have been over-reactions and abolished.
The government should grow up and try to move with the time. It should understand that people are not that emotional or immature as assumed to be likely to believe everything said by the opposition politicians during electioneering.
How many people have turned to violence over the past few elections as a result of listening to what our politicians have said even if there are untruths or defamatory statements.
How many communists or communalists or other extremists have been arrested by the government over the past 20 years.
How many people have been incited by what the opposition politicians into violent conduct or behaviour. If at all there are signs of emotional display of any kind, most likely it occurred only in the IR, NKF or the white elephant placards displayed. The people's reactions to certain NKF wrong doings have been mild and matured. The people who displayed the white elephant placards were even creative in showing their unhappy reaction to the prolonged delays in opening of the Buangkok MRT station.
From these evidences any one will be able to conclude that the fears of the government over opposition making of certain remarks are unnecessary or extraneous.
As long as there is proper election laws and these laws are not bent or gerrymandered into GRC wards or there is no breaking of any laws by any party in the election campaigning such as buying of votes etc. the government should have no fears whatsover about any disturbance or lowering of reputations of the politicians concerned.
The leaders could set personal examples of how politics could be conducted without suing one another or calling any one names. Also consider that some of the politicians are trying to bring up legitimate issues for better solutions and accountability in the hustings.
So with more accommodative and broad-minded attitude towards politics, our politicians should be more courteous to one another and work for the common good of all otherwise there will only be divisiveness and conflicts in our society. -
Noticed his arms...?Like quite weird...got lumps...
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i saw jbj selling his book at somerset. poor thing. csj is next. survived the first. this time he is gone.
anyway do u guys have other links to share? -
got this interesting link http://www.singapore-window.org/1028judi.htm
hope i dun get ip traced and put on the list!
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Originally posted by boyish love:I been reading up several articles on the net. It seems to me he is more westernized firebrand type of politician. I also know the ruling party will go at lengths to turn the tide in their favour.
Is he really out to destroy Singapore or does he just care too much for the state of our country?
Do you have any good articles, links pls, i can read?
Please do not associate CSJ with western politician, he is not in the same school of fish, the likes of Winston Churchill and even George Bush. I think he is not even a politician. He has no integrity, a Singapore basher and cannot understand what Singaporean wants.
Do I want to be associated with a chap that misquote figures and contort argument to his benefit. He reminds me of the Gold FM commercial, he has selective memory.
Calling him a hooligan is already quite kind, if it was up to me, I would not have bother with him and make him irrelevant. Waste of air time -
Because of him lah..now no one say elite is highly educated leh..
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if i were him...i would just concetrate myself on my law firm. think he is a goner in politics already....
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I must highlight that I have selectively quoted from the original post and may in the process not show the full thrust of the post.Originally posted by robertteh:After 40 years of anti-communist ISA rule, and 20 years of demise of communism, have we not achieved a certain degree of maturity?
How many people have been incited by what the opposition politicians into violent conduct or behaviour. If at all there are signs of emotional display of any kind, most likely it occurred only in the IR, NKF or the white elephant placards displayed. The people's reactions to certain NKF wrong doings have been mild and matured. The people who displayed the white elephant placards were even creative in showing their unhappy reaction to the prolonged delays in opening of the Buangkok MRT station.
From these evidences any one will be able to conclude that the fears of the government over opposition making of certain remarks are unnecessary or extraneous.
I think ISA is important regardless of how mature a society is. Its existence is useful to allow impending threat to national security that may not be proven beyond doubt that the courts need to throw people in jail. It is important to note how the ISA has been implemented in the past few instances. I am glad that we managed to prevent JI from carrying out its act and mitigated its impact on our trade, as well as that of the region.
I am not sure the government fear the opposition making certain remarks. I grant that in any contest, competition, football matches, the winner is not known until the whistle is blown. I respect the PAP putting up a strong fight and not be complacent, for I want my government to be eternally vigilant and second to none.
If nothing else, the bungkok MRT incident highlighted the insightfulness of the government. Utilisation rate of the MRT is low and not economically viable. I, too, thought it was quite strange to build a MRT station and wait for passenger and thought some statistician was wrong and a proper survey was not carried out. So now, I am wrong and the MRT station is under utilised. -
If he is a hooligan politician; he is forced by the ruling party to become like that. You cannot blame him.Originally posted by boyish love:I been reading up several articles on the net. It seems to me he is more westernized firebrand type of politician. I also know the ruling party will go at lengths to turn the tide in their favour.
Is he really out to destroy Singapore or does he just care too much for the state of our country?
Do you have any good articles, links pls, i can read? -
According to Newton, every action produces a reaction. He may well be the product of the system. This natural law seems aptly enough to be applicable to sociospher.Originally posted by Blue Dolphin: Please do not associate CSJ with western politician, he is not in the same school of fish, the likes of Winston Churchill and even George Bush. I think he is not even a politician. He has no integrity, a Singapore basher and cannot understand what Singaporean wants.
Do I want to be associated with a chap that misquote figures and contort argument to his benefit. He reminds me of the Gold FM commercial, he has selective memory.
Calling him a hooligan is already quite kind, if it was up to me, I would not have bother with him and make him irrelevant. Waste of air time
So it is not quite right to blame or call him name like hooligan or he has no integrity. Hasn't someone of high position once said two wrongs do not make a right in the NKF saga. If what he said is totally personal, by all means take action and prove his malice and actus. If he is standing for election and making reference to a subject of public concern or interest, can he be said to have bad personal malice or motive. If he has said something untruthful, produce evidences in an objective and accountable manner as the authority concerned has a duty to the public to correct the wrongs found in NKF as disclosed in KPM report. This kind of accountability and transparency should be done as duty not as a challenge to people who question about this case. Such wrongs are not some simple acts but quite substantial as disclosed so the authority has to do more than challenging the people of concern to the case including the 15,000 people who signed on the petition.
So there should not be overreaction to public concern as the public was fully right in expressing their disquiet. Try to disprove what he said and needs not criminalise his act as defamatory unless he is acting only for his own private personal purpose.
He has not claim to be the equal of Winston Churchill so please do not put words into his mouth. I think there is a lack of total understanding of the role of political process and information, accountability and transparency. Until and unless there is a greater understanding of such roles of different players it will be premature to call anyone name like "person of no integrity" For all we know others may perceive him and others of his like as our rare people's defender. -
He's a misguided fool who mistakes passion for conviction and bravado for moral courage. He thinks that just by making headline-grabbing statements without credible back-up evidence would rouse Singaporeans to rise up against the PAP. He is wrong. Singaporeans are not so gullible and incitable as that.
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The ruling party had made good progress on education enabling people to judge fairly.Originally posted by dakkon_blackblade:He's a misguided fool who mistakes passion for conviction and bravado for moral courage. He thinks that just by making headline-grabbing statements without credible back-up evidence would rouse Singaporeans to rise up against the PAP. He is wrong. Singaporeans are not so gullible and incitable as that.
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good progress reward package u mean...heheheOriginally posted by will4:The ruling party had made good progress on education enabling people to judge fairly. -
If u think of it, what will people think of him as his behaviour proved nothing.Originally posted by mhcampboy:good progress reward package u mean...hehehe
Please do not forget he used to be an NS policeman. -
Which mean local have benefiited from the education system in Spore. This made them not naive unlike Indonesia gave money to riot, they riot.Originally posted by dakkon_blackblade:He's a misguided fool who mistakes passion for conviction and bravado for moral courage. He thinks that just by making headline-grabbing statements without credible back-up evidence would rouse Singaporeans to rise up against the PAP. He is wrong. Singaporeans are not so gullible and incitable as that. -
Sorry Mate, no offence to anyone..from reading the news, I am thinking nothings else but all things coming to an end for SDP.
SDP started by Mr Chiam and may also ended with Mr Chiam..from the way MM stated "it too late" what an ending.. -
:Originally posted by robertteh:
After 40 years of anti-communist ISA rule, and 20 years of demise of communism, have we not achieved a certain degree of maturity?
How many people have been incited by what the opposition politicians into violent conduct or behaviour. If at all there are signs of emotional display of any kind, most likely it occurred only in the IR, NKF or the white elephant placards displayed. The people's reactions to certain NKF wrong doings have been mild and matured. The people who displayed the white elephant placards were even creative in showing their unhappy reaction to the prolonged delays in opening of the Buangkok MRT station.
From these evidences any one will be able to conclude that the fears of the government over opposition making of certain remarks are unnecessary or extraneous.I must highlight that I have selectively quoted from the original post and may in the process not show the full thrust of the post.
Yes, I agree that the state must be equipped with certain power to deal with potential threats to society's survival e.g. power to arrest terrorists or communists who resorted to violence to overthrow popularly elected government without trial but evidences should be made available which can be disclosed to certified panel of responsible citizens for accountability and transparency in use of such special power.
I think ISA is important regardless of how mature a society is. Its existence is useful to allow impending threat to national security that may not be proven beyond doubt that the courts need to throw people in jail. It is important to note how the ISA has been implemented in the past few instances. I am glad that we managed to prevent JI from carrying out its act and mitigated its impact on our trade, as well as that of the region.
But as society progresses and threats receded, the sweeping aspects of the special ISA power of arrest without trial should be reexamined so as to confined such use to check on any likely excesses due to past emergencies or overwhelming threats. Any excessive powers to arrest ordinary citizens without accountability or transparency should be cut down to size.
Is ISA necessary to deal with political oppositions who are legally constituted under the respective laws and taking part not in overthrow of power of elected government but are serving the people.
Is there a chance that such extensive overwhelming powers might be used to curb political dissents or people who may be opposed to the government taking part in political processes or any one called the marxist conspirators.
In the same way, often we need to pass certain laws such as law to avoid discrimination against minority race in our multi-racial society. However should be pass such law in such a way as to curb or hinder citizens' choices in exercising their constitutional one-man-one-vote sacred voting right to choose the best persons available like the GRC. Can there not be better options or choices in passing such laws instead of gerrymandering the election voting system..to do so. It is like using a sledge hammer to swat a fly. People are objecting to GRC because it has been case of overkill of law which is what is currently the problem in passing of our law. The upcoming proposed amendments to the Sedition Act should be critically examined so that there is no similar overkill as to totally deprive citizens of their last venue of political views and expressions.I am not sure the government fear the opposition making certain remarks. I grant that in any contest, competition, football matches, the winner is not known until the whistle is blown. I respect the PAP putting up a strong fight and not be complacent, for I want my government to be eternally vigilant and second to none.
In running a country, I suppose leaders will have to be alert and vigilant in safeguarding the major interests of the people like costs of living, employments, opportunities and basic freedoms to stand for election and express their concerns to the government.
If nothing else, the bungkok MRT incident highlighted the insightfulness of the government. Utilisation rate of the MRT is low and not economically viable. I, too, thought it was quite strange to build a MRT station and wait for passenger and thought some statistician was wrong and a proper survey was not carried out. So now, I am wrong and the MRT station is under utilised.
Lack of care or vigilance in the conduct of charity organization like NKF, delayed operation of completed MRT and non-admission of responsibility to oversee safe construction of MRT resulting in Nicol highway collapses are mistakes which have could have been avoided if there has been greater accountability and transparency in the running of the ministries.
Fundamentals like attainable work processes, good corporate government, accountability and transparency are not yet put into practice by the government which considers itself successful or efficient. The "20 major problems of the government" as posted in another thread have yet to be solved.
There is no readiness to admit mistakes of such nature. It is a good season to ponder over such unsolved problems as the leaders are once again saying to the people they are the best to run the government. They must prove their case that they are truly problem solvers not just make good presentations or justifications. -
another believer that public transport has to be profitable beyond equitable costs.Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:If nothing else, the bungkok MRT incident highlighted the insightfulness of the government. Utilisation rate of the MRT is low and not economically viable. I, too, thought it was quite strange to build a MRT station and wait for passenger and thought some statistician was wrong and a proper survey was not carried out. So now, I am wrong and the MRT station is under utilised.
Sometimes, the whole climate and society's way of doing things has to be totally rebuilt and changed. -
He has the fire that sadly, our youth do not possess. There is nothing hooligan about his actions, it's only those who have been brainwashed by the State into thinking that those are unbecoming actions, believe it to be so.Originally posted by casino_king:If he is a hooligan politician; he is forced by the ruling party to become like that. You cannot blame him.
There's nothing clean and innocent about politics anyway, you play it honest and let it be seen, rather than trying to act as if it's something like Maggi Mee. -
I disagree ... having the "fire" is no excuse to commit "arson" . He is no politician, he's an entertainer, a showman, he has dillusions of "granduer" and "martyrdom" ... a certain decorum must always exist in politics and political discussions, this is to defend against a descend into sensationalism and scandal driven political circuses ... I don't see how heckling and orchestrating cheap "media moments" makes him a viable politician ... he seems more focused on cheap shots and scandals rather than proposing viable alternatives anyways .... I hope to see more Mr Chaims and Mr Lows around ... not the rabble that is the SDP .....Originally posted by LazerLordz:He has the fire that sadly, our youth do not possess. There is nothing hooligan about his actions, it's only those who have been brainwashed by the State into thinking that those are unbecoming actions, believe it to be so.
There's nothing clean and innocent about politics anyway, you play it honest and let it be seen, rather than trying to act as if it's something like Maggi Mee. -
Chee Soon Juan has fire and heart, but he doesn't know how to use it.Originally posted by LazerLordz:He has the fire that sadly, our youth do not possess. There is nothing hooligan about his actions, it's only those who have been brainwashed by the State into thinking that those are unbecoming actions, believe it to be so.
There's nothing clean and innocent about politics anyway, you play it honest and let it be seen, rather than trying to act as if it's something like Maggi Mee.
After years of trying to expose the Ruling party for contentious issues such as neopotism and corruption, having been badly mauled by defamation suits, he has become vindictive of the both MM Lee and PM Lee.
As a result, he has lost his own focus on politics.
Is he fighting for the people? Or for himself? Whatever the case, he has clearly lost his way by making this a personal vendetta against MM Lee and PM Lee. -
Please, MRT is an infrastructure, not an investment!! Economic viability is not a consideration here.Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:If nothing else, the bungkok MRT incident highlighted the insightfulness of the government. Utilisation rate of the MRT is low and not economically viable. I, too, thought it was quite strange to build a MRT station and wait for passenger and thought some statistician was wrong and a proper survey was not carried out. So now, I am wrong and the MRT station is under utilised.
Do you think the power supply grid in Bungkok is giving Singapore Power enough return for them to switch on street lights, corridor lights... from 7 to 7? May be they should switch off the light and sell torch lights.
Do you think there are enough residents there to justify the supply of water? may be they should shut down the pump and supply via water truck, charge resident on per trip basis.