The most desperate millionaire minister in the world
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This is the lamest and weakest argument I've ever heard - although admittedly, not just from you, but there're enough mugs out there with a similar mindset which make the future(and I mean the future and not just 5-10 years) worrying.Originally posted by ejb:only a simple question, who can gurantee that the opp. can do a better job than now? pap might not have did the best, but i think if the opp. are given a chance, they may do it even worst..
i'm only a supportor for the best team, that's all..
Look, what you're saying is no different from telling a woman being raped she should enjoy the process regardless of what she wants to do after that since she's pretty much powerless to stop the rapist at that point in time anyway.
That's effectively what you're saying - in spite of the uneven playing field and subscribing to the myth that the Fascists have proved their worth, we should continue to vote for them just because the opposition are not strong enough to do a better job(which they aren't admittedly, but thanks in no small part to people empowered to "shift goalposts" indefinitely to their advantage)...
Mind, if I could shift goalposts the way they could(and be empowered to appoint a referee and linesmen for a game of football), I too would fancy my chances of picking 11 men of the street and beat bloody Real Madrid in a game of football!
It's not that hard to have the 'best' team in the given circumstances, is it? 
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every 5 yearsOriginally posted by expiringpoet:Not blackmailing. Its bribery. And i guess for people who dont know any better about the government's dirty politics or the desperate-poor for whom survival is a daily exercise, they would feel grateful and guess who they'd vote for becos they got this yearly ang-pow reminder?
Vote for us, and we'll give you money every year!
Vote for us, and we'll give you money every year!
Vote for us, and we'll give you money every year!
Money Talks! -
Singapore has limited resources; people are its only resources, so the current dictatorship knows that the country's operational costs needs to be FULLY BORNE by its labourers, people like us. It's the only way this country can survive.
That's why you have high costs, why you can forget about free lunches and if you do have free lunches, you need to pay it back, and many times over. -
why dont you just be anti pap and seek political asylum in some other country.. that'd be nice
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for my view if pap take back all the seat we all can kiss goodbye to the progress package for the next 5 yearssssssssssssssssssss...........
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Nice to see an educated person for a change...Originally posted by look_see:Quote: "do not bite the hand that feeds u, w/o the pap(LKY) in the 1st plc, we are still under our friendly neighbour msia and maybe are fishing/farming somewhere there, please do not forget that"
during the great depression, Germany was in the brink of bankruptcy due partly to the penalties imposed by the allies after the first world war...
in less than a decade, the Nazi Party transformed Germany to become the most powerful nation in Europe. does that make Hitler a great man??
Hey, aren't you aware our trade unions are modelled after the Nazi model too? It's an adapted version of their "Strength through Joy" union actually...
Right, just as well why LKY doesn't measure up with the greats. In terms of humanity and being a democrat/socialist, his humanity would come nowhere close to touching the sort of leaders you see in many parts of Western Europe.
In terms of being a genius, he's well outclassed by despots, but sublimely gifted and effective individuals like Hitler and Deng anyway... -
What I personally think about the elections, is that....
WE CANNOT ALLOW THE PAP TO WIN WITH A SUPER HUGE MARGIN
As self-aware and responsible singaporeans, it is obvious that if we allow them another landslide victory of 75% like in 2001.
Results would be catastrophic. By allowing them a large-ass win, it would send the message that the PAP has our full mandate to carry on their policies as they see fit.
Which means = HIGHER taxes, increased transportation fees, etc.
And if we complain, all they can do to quell us is just say, "YOU were the people that voted us in. you people gave us the responsibility of leading you, so this is what the PAP feels is best for you"
Personally, I feel the PAP is successful in its economic stance. Oil protection subsidies- to protect us from surging prices.... long term planning of the economy from manufacturing to service - in face of large booming manufacturing giants in asia etc.
But the fact of the matter is, the PAP have failed to look at social, and grassroots issues that WE as citizens commonly question.
For example, whereby foreign talents are coming over to occupy jobs that were newly created... (do we still need them? are singaporeans that underskilled for th jobs?)
Or... regarding the issue of where the HELL is our taxes going to? Lack of transparency in most governmental agencies seriously stressing us up...
Bottom line is, there must be a strong opposition voice in parliament - to play devil's advocate - and keep check of the policies being passed.
Allowing a monopoly on the issuing of policies by the PAP is bad for us. -
i wont be surprised.
singaporeans are famous for shuoyitaozhuoyitao. -
What to do, they give us $$$ and that's exactly what a typical singaporean wants, $.
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You know, people keep talking about needing world class salaries to attract world class people...and having people with a proven track record.
In light of those concerns, and in keeping with our foreign talent policy, I propose that we invite the Right Honourable Prime Minister Tony Blair to be our prime minister.
Hold on! I can hear you screaming and howling, "Is he on drugs?!! What a preposterous Idea!" Hear me out. This is an issue of great importance. So just hear me out.
Tony Blair, throughout the last nine years, has shown himself to be:
- A person who believes in the free market. For instance, once in power, he allowed gordon brown to set the Bank of England free from political control. This means that the BoE can plan for the long term, instead of having to follow the short-term policies of politicians. This has been hailed by many economists as a master-stroke. Of course, this might not work for SIngapore. But that is besides the point. The point is that he has demontrated a free-market ethos. Under him, the UK has boomed, and has continued to boom. This makes him very suitable to lead Singapore.
- A person who can balance the demands of Human and Social Rights with the demands of Law and Order. This can be demonstrated by looking at the legislation and policies he has implemented. In 1998, he Passes the Human Rights Act and the Crime and Disorder Act. One the one hand, he has guaranteed fundamental rights to UK citizens by incorporating the European Convention on Human Rights into UK law. On the other, he has introduced a raft of measures designed to deal with antisocial behaviour and low level offending.
- A great orator and greatly respsected by the World, in particular the United States of America. Thus, having him as our leader can only be a boon to Singapore. If he is our PM, Singapore's international Status will no doubt be elevated.
- He is available. Circumstances have made employing him something within the realms of possibility as opposed to something that is mere fantasy.
- Costs can be Cut. It is a truism that the government has a responsiblity to spend taxpayers' money wisely and prudently. Accoring to the Guardian, in 2002, his annual salary was in the region of £200 000. That makes its about S$600000. Say we increase his pay to S$1.5 million. Surely he cannot resist such a pay rise!
Yes, he has made mistakes. Going to Iraq was undoubtedly a disaster, in terms of international relations. However, I do not thinkit is fair to judge him on one incident. It was a mistake and he had to make a decision. It was, on hindsight, a wrong decision. We should not allow a moment of weakness to detract from his other acheievements. On balance, therefore, I think it is clear that he is the man for us. With him as our PM, Singapore will and can progress economically, socially and politically.
Think about it. -
The problem with social problems is that it is not really the problem with them. They have no time to emphasise on social issues. Fare hike --> to give you all money later? We have no idea but we are stable, so we can continue supporting the PAP.Originally posted by TaintedFaith:What I personally think about the elections, is that....
WE CANNOT ALLOW THE PAP TO WIN WITH A SUPER HUGE MARGIN
As self-aware and responsible singaporeans, it is obvious that if we allow them another landslide victory of 75% like in 2001.
Results would be catastrophic. By allowing them a large-ass win, it would send the message that the PAP has our full mandate to carry on their policies as they see fit.
Which means = HIGHER taxes, increased transportation fees, etc.
And if we complain, all they can do to quell us is just say, "YOU were the people that voted us in. you people gave us the responsibility of leading you, so this is what the PAP feels is best for you"
Personally, I feel the PAP is successful in its economic stance. Oil protection subsidies- to protect us from surging prices.... long term planning of the economy from manufacturing to service - in face of large booming manufacturing giants in asia etc.
But the fact of the matter is, the PAP have failed to look at social, and grassroots issues that WE as citizens commonly question.
For example, whereby foreign talents are coming over to occupy jobs that were newly created... (do we still need them? are singaporeans that underskilled for th jobs?)
Or... regarding the issue of where the HELL is our taxes going to? Lack of transparency in most governmental agencies seriously stressing us up...
Bottom line is, there must be a strong opposition voice in parliament - to play devil's advocate - and keep check of the policies being passed.
Allowing a monopoly on the issuing of policies by the PAP is bad for us.
"Do you want a person whose brother tried to deny S'pore an FTA with the US to be in Parliament?"
"Do you want an irresponsible person to stay in Parliament?"
"Do you want someone who can take care of you in the Parliament?" -
Do you want the MP that you voted for missing in parliament ?
Do you want your MP to neglect his full time job ?
Do you want to shake the Man In White hand once in every five years ?
Do you want to cease transmission with the MP that you voted for after the election ?
Do you want a high cost of living which only translated to high wages for your MP and "ask you to endure" miserly wages for yourself ?
Do you want a political fiasco and mockery where the candidates are more interested in bitching against each other instead of the REAL important issue - YOU ?
Do you trust a bunch of inexperienced and untested candidates that accused the opposition candidates of being untested ?
Do you want your feedback to serve as political wayang and not used in the final process ?
If you have been experiencing the same wayang for the last ten years, do you still want history to repeat itself with more "bonus" payment package later ?
The life of the people did not recovered with the economy as the wages are kept low and living cost escalating.
So, was the promise of "More Good Years" accomplished after giving the mandate ? -
The problem with social problems is that it is not really the problem with them. They have no time to emphasise on social issues. Fare hike --> to give you all money later? We have no idea but we are stable, so we can continue supporting the PAP.
As responsible governance goes, it IS the perogative of the government to deliver unto us, SOCIAL provisions.
Would you, as a Singaporean like either,
Scenario 1:
Taxes goto the govt, who promises us better lifestlye for all.
Govt. remains untransparent, invests in overseas businesses without the knowledge of the people. AND ends up, the business overseas folding up (80 billion of investments gone in china?)
And the govt. provides us with occasional rebates, which can be exhausted in less than a month.
Scenario 2:
Taxes goto the govt, who promises us better lifestyle for all.
Govt. is transparent, takes heed from local citizens and speculators on overseas investments. Thus not so much is being recklessly invested overseas etc.
And the govt. is able to provide us with better subsidies in welfare, such as healthcare, education subsidies, etc.
As a rational, thinking Singaporean, which would you choose?
A totalitarian EXTREME right-winged govt that gives us scenario 1
Or
An alternative Left-Centrist party that gives us more liberalism and provisions?
Guess e answer's pretty obvious. -
Then can you say the same for the newbie MP from PAP?Originally posted by ejb:yes, i definately think opp. are needed, cuz they will keep a "check" on the pap, to make sure that they are doing good.
however, though some of the issues the opp. said make sense, but, how do u gurantee that they will be a do-action then talk-action ppl?
talk is often more more more simple than action..
addressing an issue is also more more more simple than performing the solution..
providing the solution in words-form is also more more more simple than providing the solution in action-form..
and i do not say i support pap, i oni support the strongest, at the very least right now, besides a few "creditable" opp. in the WP, i basically feel most of them are/do not hold such a good creditial that i should vote for them...
maybe the (some of the) opp. may have passion (but ability wise?), but from what i see, besides (a few) "creditable" opp. most of the majority just looks to me like ppl who want to gain fame overnight by going to the opp. just my personal opinion though.
anyway, it's not up to me/you/anyone alone to decide who win..
i'm just trying to bring in the fact that why have so many ppl forgotton wad pap had done? they might have done it overbroad, but if the opp. is to lead, i dun think they cld have done it any better also, managing a country is not so easy as to say say on rally oni..
Have you being to the WP's rally personally to see the passion the new candidates have when they give their speeches.Or did you get your info from our biased media?A person with passion will be a just do nothing MP and also dare to join the opposition?Do you know the great sacrifices people make to be associated with the Oppo in singapore? -
The government I prefer to rule this country is to have a ruling party that is capable of facing challenge regardless if it is Chee, Jeya or Chiam.
As for PAP, despite their domination in this country, they still need to use "dirty" and suppressive tactic to gain vote. That to me is SAD!!
Rememeber this, progress fund doesnt come out of PAP pocket, it is part of the contribution you and your forefather have willingly gave to this country. -
if i could vote i would have voted, its always a walkover over here in jurongOriginally posted by Medicated Oil:Do you want the MP that you voted for missing in parliament ?
Do you want your MP to neglect his full time job ?
Do you want to shake the Man In White hand once in every five years ?
Do you want to cease transmission with the MP that you voted for after the election ?
Do you want a high cost of living which only translated to high wages for your MP and "ask you to endure" miserly wages for yourself ?
Do you want a political fiasco and mockery where the candidates are more interested in bitching against each other instead of the REAL important issue - YOU ?
Do you trust a bunch of inexperienced and untested candidates that accused the opposition candidates of being untested ?
Do you want your feedback to serve as political wayang and not used in the final process ?
If you have been experiencing the same wayang for the last ten years, do you still want history to repeat itself with more "bonus" payment package later ?
The life of the people did not recovered with the economy as the wages are kept low and living cost escalating.
So, was the promise of "More Good Years" accomplished after giving the mandate ? -
For people that are interested in a film that PERFECTLY depicts Singapore.
watch the movie... known as, none other than
V FOR VENDETTA
seriously, watch it. -
Hmm... passion. I suppose every contestant in the Miss Singapore universe is passionate about the competition and seemingly, went through great sacrifices, personal and professional, to partake in the contest. At the end of the contest, a winner is picked (by a panel of judges) to represent Singapore in a world wide arena. Was passion sufficient for the judges to pick a winner? I suppose they picked someone that score high in their selection criteria. Question is, did we support the most passionate one or the one that we think can most represent us and deliver victory in the world wide competition.Originally posted by Aveme:Then can you say the same for the newbie MP from PAP?
Have you being to the WP's rally personally to see the passion the new candidates have when they give their speeches.Or did you get your info from our biased media?A person with passion will be a just do nothing MP and also dare to join the opposition?Do you know the great sacrifices people make to be associated with the Oppo in singapore?
Sorry, got distracted. We are on the topic of picking MPs and Ministers right? -
Interesting. May I pose a question? As you mention, the Progress package came from contribution (I suppose you mean taxation) of the people, then perhaps we can see how an old worker on $700 salary who pays no tax receives a package that is a few times his pay. How did this add up? Will it be fair to say, the rich (who I assume pay lots of taxes) is paying for the poor? Then would that not make the government a robin hood in modern times?Originally posted by Gazelle:The government I prefer to rule this country is to have a ruling party that is capable of facing challenge regardless if it is Chee, Jeya or Chiam.
As for PAP, despite their domination in this country, they still need to use "dirty" and suppressive tactic to gain vote. That to me is SAD!!
Rememeber this, progress fund doesnt come out of PAP pocket, it is part of the contribution you and your forefather have willingly gave to this country.
Again, another question, if you allow me. If the PAP has domination over the country, what is then the need for an election? -
Winston Churchill said "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject".Originally posted by walesa:Should we sympathise with those who are blackmailed? Or rather, is that anything new? What other democracy on this planet empowers a party to make use of taxpayers' money to 'buy' votes(think upgrading which started in '97 to your Progress Package this time around)? And what other electorate on this planet allow themselves to be blackmailed?
However, if a vast majority - and supposedly well-educated - of the electorate decide to return Fascists to power on their own free will due to such short-sighted enticements(evidently, they haven't been educated enough to learn that their cost of living and countless complains - stemming from all sorts of fee, fare, tax hikes - are intrinsically linked to politics), should we really sympathise with them? If people are convinced one-party rule is the way to go and choose to do their darndest to ensure the present status quo remain, I suppose those hypocrites(ie.clowns who vote for PAP yet whine and moan over the slightest things from fare hikes in public transport to increase in GST) should just shut up and live with the consequences of their action. That's their just dessert anyway.
I suppose the only victims in the whole process are the ones whose interests are compromised as a result of the action of those hypocrites living in our midst. As Churchill once said, "the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery" - just curse your luck for living in the midst of such a society.
Hmm..in case anyone needs reminding and decide to vote blindly, maybe they should just take note that there hasn't been an increase in cigarette prices and public transport fares this year - on top of that, the government has even generously dished out some appetizer called 'Progress Package'. Wondering if the status quo will somehow be restored(in layman terms, whether what you get from the Progress Package will be sufficient to cover the increase in fares, taxes and what not over the next 5 years) after the elections... Then again, I would hardly be surprised that there'll still be enough muppets out there who genuinely believe Singapore is transforming into the paradise God had intended to compensate for its inherent lack of natural resources that come polling day, the votes will invariably be chanelled in one direction disproportionately... -
Winston Churchill also once famously remarked, "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery." - pretty much sums up how the acts of irrational muppets(or at least, a vast majority) are well capable of jeopardising the interests of the rational and sane...Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:Winston Churchill said "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject". -
A old worker might be worth $700 per month now, but have you forgetten to take into account his contribution when he was young, the number of children he has that is contributing to this country?Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:Interesting. May I pose a question? As you mention, the Progress package came from contribution (I suppose you mean taxation) of the people, then perhaps we can see how an old worker on $700 salary who pays no tax receives a package that is a few times his pay. How did this add up? Will it be fair to say, the rich (who I assume pay lots of taxes) is paying for the poor? Then would that not make the government a robin hood in modern times?
Again, another question, if you allow me. If the PAP has domination over the country, what is then the need for an election?
Have you forgotten about tobacco tax, GST, COE, Petrol Tax, Road Tax, ERP, Stamp fee, Levy, Property tax, alcohol tax?
The need for election is important so that Singapore can call itself a democratic society. -
A old worker might be worth $700 per month now, but have you forgetten to take into account his contribution when he was young, the number of children he has that is contributing to this country?Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:Interesting. May I pose a question? As you mention, the Progress package came from contribution (I suppose you mean taxation) of the people, then perhaps we can see how an old worker on $700 salary who pays no tax receives a package that is a few times his pay. How did this add up? Will it be fair to say, the rich (who I assume pay lots of taxes) is paying for the poor? Then would that not make the government a robin hood in modern times?
Again, another question, if you allow me. If the PAP has domination over the country, what is then the need for an election?
Have you forgotten about tobacco tax, GST, COE, Petrol Tax, Road Tax, ERP, Stamp fee, Levy, Property tax, alcohol tax?
The need for election is important so that Singapore can call itself a democratic society. -
How could someone actually associate an OP to a beauty contest? In a beauty contest, you are competing on level term and the judges are not your father or uncle.Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:Hmm... passion. I suppose every contestant in the Miss Singapore universe is passionate about the competition and seemingly, went through great sacrifices, personal and professional, to partake in the contest. At the end of the contest, a winner is picked (by a panel of judges) to represent Singapore in a world wide arena. Was passion sufficient for the judges to pick a winner? I suppose they picked someone that score high in their selection criteria. Question is, did we support the most passionate one or the one that we think can most represent us and deliver victory in the world wide competition.
Sorry, got distracted. We are on the topic of picking MPs and Ministers right?
Whereas in Singapore politics, the "judge" runs the beauty contest and also the one who will determine the winner. He is also the one who run a modelling agency that groom 90% of the contestant and also the father of the person who is leading the team.
Sorry, got distracted too -
80 billion of investment lost in china was kinda shit! dont under estimate our china friends!!!! a lesson learn for our government! but... this lesson was far too much costly!!!!!Originally posted by TaintedFaith:As responsible governance goes, it IS the perogative of the government to deliver unto us, SOCIAL provisions.
Would you, as a Singaporean like either,
Scenario 1:
Taxes goto the govt, who promises us better lifestlye for all.
Govt. remains untransparent, invests in overseas businesses without the knowledge of the people. AND ends up, the business overseas folding up (80 billion of investments gone in china?)
And the govt. provides us with occasional rebates, which can be exhausted in less than a month.
........................
Guess e answer's pretty obvious.