PAP has turned Singapore into a land of foreigners
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It is easy to say to upgrade the skills in growing industries but is difficult to do. Especially when you are over 40 and 50.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Stop your grouses and upgrade your skills in gorwing industries. We have well-paying jobs for fund managers and researchers in the biomedical industries but we cannot find enough people to fill them. That's why we have to import PhDs from overseas..
We have no jobs for diagnostic radiologists...they have been outsourced. So doctors just have to undergo training all over again and move to a different speciality or accept lower pay as a GP.
Everyone faces global competition. What makes us so special? If you cannot compete you lose your job or accept lower salary...
It is important that we learn the lesson. One way to address this is to strive to retire at 40 and 50 before the company make you redundant (retrench / sack / fire you). -
most of the arguments for the FT is that they are holding low paying blue collar jobs no singaporeans want to take up.
but i believe that this is MIGHT not be the case in terms of those jobs that require a tertiary education which is what most singaporeans are most concerned about.
some readers have also replied that since we are approaching a globalised economy, this is something that we should live with. however, let;s look at this argument from a football perspective.
didn't the english and spanish FA argue that they have to allow more foreigner players to boost up the competitiveness of their soccer league. in the end, we saw an influx of foreign players from countries such as the south america and france into their games. their league does get more interesting but they had also shut out the growth of local talents. the results is that we always see english and spanish clubs achieving great glorys during champions league... but when was the last time England and Spain won anything on a National level? so in the long run, who ends up the greatest losers? isn't it clear enough for all to see.... -
Speaking of football, whatever happened to Goal 2010? All I know is we have some half-baked S-League primed with plenty of FTs, but World Cup is no where in sight.Originally posted by look_see:didn't the english and spanish FA argue that they have to allow more foreigner players to boost up the competitiveness of their soccer league. in the end, we saw an influx of foreign players from countries such as the south america and france into their games. their league does get more interesting but they had also shut out the growth of local talents. the results is that we always see english and spanish clubs achieving great glorys during champions league... but when was the last time England and Spain won anything on a National level? so in the long run, who ends up the greatest losers? isn't it clear enough for all to see....
Oh and some of the FTs (I shall not name names) have this annoying habit of running off to Europe for trials until the Indonesian club who signed them up have to threaten to sue em. -
Everthing is just WRONG here....Originally posted by NDU:thats why i have to go monash
but.... if im singaporean! and i dont even have a chance to be educate here.... dont you think thats something wrong some where? 
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Will I have to leave my country if I am decent and welcome by my neighbour..You say..
Do I have to feel uneasy walking the street when we are all law abliging citizens? You say
I studied no much..but if I am not welcome in my own country..I doubted any countries will welcome me... -
I am a Singaporean who happens to be a foreign talent in China. We're in a globalised economy nowadays. I suppose we all have to learn to adapt and move around where the demand for talents are.
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i'm not here to talk bad abt FT or anything, but i happened to follow my GRC MP ard during a block visit. on 2 diff occasions, of all the flats in the block the MP visited, about half of them were PRs!
not exagerating. this is somewhere in jurong. other area, i would not be sure.
i was shocked initially to see this high number of PRs jus ard my area. wat more, the MP even kept telling the PRs that one of the spouses should apply for citizenship to get the best of both worlds.
he's from PAP, jus for the record. so now u know how so many of them ended up in S'pore... -
wad to do...there's even ministers and MP who are foreign born in the parliement
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i c a lot of niggas 2... WASUP MY NIGGAZ....Originally posted by dragg:i see lots of thais, malaysians, mainland chinese, angmohs, pakistanis, indian nationals, blangadeshi.
soon we will become the minority. -
mainly malaysians.Originally posted by Mariner:wad to do...there's even ministers and MP who are foreign born in the parliement -
As a Singaporean, I really feel that here is not Singapore. I do not know where is the National Identity.
Everytime before election, they will ask us to vote them. After election, things turns worst and they make it more worst by foreigners controlling the CITIZENs. Feel really SAD for the place I am born in and the place I called HOME.
Sometimes even mocked by foreigners indicating "Whats the BIG DEAL being a Singaporean!". Hear also cannot tahan. -
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In the company that my wife works in, majority of the non admin jobs are held by FWs.
Let's take her manager for example, her manager from myanma, holding local masters degree.
Everyday at work, make personal phone call more than work, ask her anything, she say she don't know.
Few months back, she hired another person from her homeland, that person also cannot work. They are in the lab (chemical) department. The new person was given a dunno what scientist position cause she got Phd.
So during the her training, the diploma holders still have to teach her how to do certain chemical test. That nevermind, when she do those chemical test, still have to cheat. Her own result wrong, copy other's correct result, suay suay get caught. If not eveyone would think she very good.
Let me tell your a very interesting thing, this Phd don't even know how to use a pipette. She is suppose to use those rubber sucker and attach it to the end of the pipette to suck up the chemicals.
Guess what she did!!! She use her mouth.
We all know that if a container is used to hold a chemical, we are supposed to thouroughly clean the container before putting in another chemical right?, cause we don't want any reaction mah. This simple thing she also dunno.
Now let's get back to the manager. Those who studied chemistry before should know that we cannot add water to a big volume of concentrated acid.
One fine day that kuku manager almost did and almost cause a major explosion. Luckily my wife stopped her just before she pour water into a huge container of concentrated acid.
Now are these Phd and Master degree holder foriegn talents??
YES!!! in the 'EYES OF THE GAHMEN'.
NO!!!!!!!!! In the eyes of those who worked with them.
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HAHAHAHA......i learnt all these when i did pure chem 2 years ago....Originally posted by joajas:Let me tell your a very interesting thing, this Phd don't even know how to use a pipette. She is suppose to use those rubber sucker and attach it to the end of the pipette to suck up the chemicals.
Guess what she did!!! She use her mouth.
One fine day that kuku manager almost did and almost cause a major explosion. Luckily my wife stopped her just before she pour water into a huge container of concentrated acid. -
e govt want singaporeans to all have a good education.. give us subsidy here and there.. get a certificate n blah blah blah... at the same time they also subsidise foreigners to study here... they pay like 5% more i think(for poly).. den everybody happy study study get cert already den find tt no jobs, all FT come take our jobs... even U graduates oso hv difficulty finding jobs... hmmm.. izzit cos singaporeans are too demanding or....???
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The system in Singapore is that they look at your paper not your person. Phd can be picked from lots of universities but, loyal, passionate workers of the field are not easy to find.
I just feel that if we, local citizens are being treated as 2nd class citizens in our home birth land, I might as well apply for PR in another country where the community treats you although second class, but u will be fairly treated in due time as one of them.
Singapore? Hah!
Even Gahman treat us like cattle.
Everywhere tax tax, so we have to work like cows to make ends meet, say cannot do this, then everybody dun do it, say go invest in that field, everybody then go there (classic example: from manufacturing to engineering, to IT now life sciences)
Then say we are citizens should proudly serve our army first... then fine NS dodger who pursue a career in music (black sheep in their view)
I feel like we are like sheep make us run here to eat grass then run there... black sheeps then kenna spank spank send to chop shop. -
Originally posted by Kariage:
hdb should not even be charging us such an anal amount of money in the first place
These are the facts that you must see before condemning PAP:
1. there are huge needs for construction worker. Does singaporean willing to take this job with only $700 - $1000 per month? The bangladeshi and Pakistani are okay with this job.
1. Construction company will be gone... meeting higher salary demand to hire a Singaporean will increase the overhead of the company. HDB flats will be more expensive since the cost of building it will be higher.
since they're already charging at this insane amount whats wrong with paying a higher salary to locals? considering what our minsters are getting paid, shouldn't construction workers be at least paid enough to support their own families here?
if the cost of living here is lower i'm sure people won't mind, i can't imagine raising a family on $1000 here. plus the fact that if i'm capable of getting an easier job with equal pay why would i go for that?Originally posted by Kariage:
if locals are hired at a higher pay proportionated to the cost of living here i doubt hospital bills would be a problem
2. There are huge needs for nurses in our healthcare system. Does singaporean willing to do this job? No, most Singaporean thinks this job is no good and low paid... But the Filipino are okay with this job.
2. Hospital bill will be higher, since singaporean health worker expect higher salary.Originally posted by Kariage:
if you're paying $15 an hour for a maid tell me, i would like to apply for the job
3. No maids for you... except if you are willing to pay $15 per hour for a singaporean maid.
in fact i wouldn't mind even if its just $10
without maids we might even be able to allow those aunties who need jobs to take care of the children benefiting both sides, who knows , maybe at a lower cost comapred to a maid, with the money saved you'll be able to hire someone to clean your houseOriginally posted by Kariage:
with higher wages , manufacturers should at least expect higher skilled workers, something we could try to provide though education to attract companies who need to manufacture goods of higher quality
4. Manufacturing cost will be higher. Soon all manufacturer will move to Vietnam/China/Indonesia
no one said it would be easy , you don't have to sound like the world is going to endOriginally posted by Kariage:
big it companies would move out and create more business room for small local it companies, in IT what matters is whether you are worth the price, if you are , the salary should not be a problem, if you suck then you shouldn't even be there in the first place, you should be here playing CS with me
5. Big IT companies will move out from Singapore. Small IT companies will be closed down since the overhead cost will be too high.Originally posted by Kariage:
not if we provide better services, would you rather pay more at a port with your goods intact and sent safely on their way , or less at a port thats slow and loses track of your goods the moment they're unloaded?
6. The shipyards and container ports will move to a cheaper place.
firstly i feel that i wouldn't mind those "dirty jobs" if they pay higher, and even if they don't pay higher, they should allow one to have chances to advance in their careers. currently the way workers are treated is appalling. and if you haven't noticed more and more of these "dirty jobs" are being taken by locals. locals who are often cheated out of their pay of only hundreds by the same peole who hire them for these "dirty jobs", not to mention verbal abuse.
The correct thing to do:
1. Let the foreigner do the dirty jobs, they are willing to do it with low salary. Singaporean should aim themself to do a higher status jobs. Someone who are not capable of doing higher status job can either stay jobless or downgrade their expectation. It is THEIR choice.
2. Don't worry about the numbers of PRs here. For example, in Bahrain, one of the developed country in the middle east, the amount of PRs are 3 times of their citizen. A problem? NO. Bahrain is one of the most prosperous country in the middle east.[/b]
who in their right mind would go for these jobs if they have a choice? pay's like shIt, and you get treated like shIt too!
and this is singapore, not bahrain, at least in bahrain you don't have to face someone's Arse everytime you sit down in a train of course PRs are helping there! and don't forget, chewing gum's banned here but still being sold across the causeway. what works for others may not nesessarily work for us -
Lack of QC la.
The amount of incompetent FTs here is mindboggling.I'd hire a more effective local who is more grateful and willing to work hard, able to market my product due to his innate knowledge of the local market.
Sure, costs might be slightly higher, but are we content to remain as a price taker? Shouldn't we be moving up the industry scale and moving towards being a price maker?
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Sometimes it's not only low-end jobs that only foreigners can do.
And why many "high-end" jobs are left to foreigners because Singaopre lack the manpower with the skills to do so.
I am not saying Singaporeans can't do them but there's simply not enough going around OR the experience the foreigners have is needed here.
Take for example SAP analysts, there simply isn't enough around and Singaporeans expect salaries of $3000-$3200 for first pay.
A foreigner SAP analyst is willing to settle for $2400-$2600 and they are experienced.
They are more exposed to SAP applications, able to troubleshoot and have experienced screw ups in the SAP system. This is because back home, the companies they work for do not have an establish set of procedures and they have a much complicated system of doing things. They have to exploit SAP's capabilities to counter this problem
Whereas a local SAP analyst learn their stuff in a "assumed" everything smooth sailing environment. They are well trained, but they are not as ready to counter expected problems. -
Originally posted by hampden11:
I just feel that if we, local citizens are being treated as 2nd class citizens in our home birth land, I might as well apply for PR in another country where the community treats you although second class, but u will be fairly treated in due time as one of them.
Are you sure of this statement? Please think twice before making such baseless statement. Tolerance level of PRs in other countries is not high at all. In fact, many of them despise PRs.
Singapore? Hah!
Even Gahman treat us like cattle.
Everywhere tax tax, so we have to work like cows to make ends meet, say cannot do this, then everybody dun do it, say go invest in that field, everybody then go there (classic example: from manufacturing to engineering, to IT now life sciences)
Have you heard of a world class country with no taxes? How is the country going to progress if there are no taxes? Expenses and cost of living will be high in Singapore because we are living in an advanced country. If you wish to have cheap cost of living and forgo all the luxuries in a world class country, please migrate to a third world country. Regarding the constant shifts in the fields of investment, it is not determined by the government at all. It is the impact of globalisation. It is determined by the world. If you dont want singapore to progress, then stick to manufacturing forever lor. Imagine if the government told us to focus on manufacturing and ever since then did not tell us to shift our investments. Will singapore progress till today?
Then say we are citizens should proudly serve our army first... then fine NS dodger who pursue a career in music (black sheep in their view)
I feel like we are like sheep make us run here to eat grass then run there... black sheeps then kenna spank spank send to chop shop.
Hahahaha... you're just trying to find some topic to defame the government lah. In singapore NS is compulsory for all men and if you allow for certain people to skip NS, then others wouldnt be happy at all right? And how do you determine who are elligible to skip NS? Only the music ppl?
If you do not have a sheepdog to keep your sheeps from straying away, you'll soon find tht u have lost all your sheeps. -
initially i was into multicult.........but my experience overseas left me otherwise.....similarly i don;t wish to see any much more multicult myself in singapore............
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One must acknowledge, that we are a nation of immigrants and decendents of immigrants. However, when the sovrignty of our country was forged, the so were "Singaporeans". An identity. A commitment to each other that we have the common interests of our nation and families at heart. Our forefathers built this nation and have passed on the baton to us.
Im not gonna say that we can do without forign tallent. I say rather that they are almost essential to the betterment of our economy. However i stress the important point that there should be a distinction between singaporeans and forigners. To be singaporean should be a privilage. It should carry exclusive rights. As such it should have some value. These rights and privilages should not be handend out on large scales thru reckless issuing of PR and resident status. Rather, like other countries and like singapore in the past, there should be strict criteria that determine the level of commitment individuals have to our nation.
I do not believe that our country is being raped. Rather i say that we are being prostituted. Those that we chare with the responsibility of taking the helm of our nation , sad to say, have a clear disconnect with the masses. In prostitution it is not the prostitute that makes any gain. It is ultimately the pimp that reaps the greatest reward.
We have our indipendence. Now a new war must be fought. A fight for freedom and rights. Rights that the people determine. Singaporeans. This will unify us.
Remember, there is no Malay, Indian, Chinese or Eurasian. SUch terms are colonial classifications and are irrelevant. There are only SINGAPOREANS and Forigners. -
to my dear joajasOriginally posted by joajas:In the company that my wife works in, majority of the non admin jobs are held by FWs.
Let's take her manager for example, her manager from myanma, holding local masters degree.
Everyday at work, make personal phone call more than work, ask her anything, she say she don't know.
Few months back, she hired another person from her homeland, that person also cannot work. They are in the lab (chemical) department. The new person was given a dunno what scientist position cause she got Phd.
So during the her training, the diploma holders still have to teach her how to do certain chemical test. That nevermind, when she do those chemical test, still have to cheat. Her own result wrong, copy other's correct result, suay suay get caught. If not eveyone would think she very good.
Let me tell your a very interesting thing, this Phd don't even know how to use a pipette. She is suppose to use those rubber sucker and attach it to the end of the pipette to suck up the chemicals.
Guess what she did!!! She use her mouth.
We all know that if a container is used to hold a chemical, we are supposed to thouroughly clean the container before putting in another chemical right?, cause we don't want any reaction mah. This simple thing she also dunno.
Now let's get back to the manager. Those who studied chemistry before should know that we cannot add water to a big volume of concentrated acid.
One fine day that kuku manager almost did and almost cause a major explosion. Luckily my wife stopped her just before she pour water into a huge container of concentrated acid.
Now are these Phd and Master degree holder foriegn talents??
YES!!! in the 'EYES OF THE GAHMEN'.
NO!!!!!!!!! In the eyes of those who worked with them.
i can understand how you feel as i have encounter such thing before also sometime just wonder.... isit they BUY THEIR PHD OR MASTER DEGREE -
I believe majority of them Malaysian.Originally posted by binkaboink:i'm not here to talk bad abt FT or anything, but i happened to follow my GRC MP ard during a block visit. on 2 diff occasions, of all the flats in the block the MP visited, about half of them were PRs!
not exagerating. this is somewhere in jurong. other area, i would not be sure.
i was shocked initially to see this high number of PRs jus ard my area. wat more, the MP even kept telling the PRs that one of the spouses should apply for citizenship to get the best of both worlds.
he's from PAP, jus for the record. so now u know how so many of them ended up in S'pore... -
I am a PR n served my NS already. U experience also the same.Originally posted by thinker:As a Singaporean, I really feel that here is not Singapore. I do not know where is the National Identity.
Everytime before election, they will ask us to vote them. After election, things turns worst and they make it more worst by foreigners controlling the CITIZENs. Feel really SAD for the place I am born in and the place I called HOME.
Sometimes even mocked by foreigners indicating "Whats the BIG DEAL being a Singaporean!". Hear also cannot tahan.
Last time in a lift, I n my fren going to car park n there were several others
in a lift, believe mainly locals. The lift stopped n two Chinese national entered.
One of them started to criticized the local guys saying how rude, aiming at one of the persons in the lift. Local guys like no manner which is one of the reasons they conscripted into NS to teach them manners.