PAP has turned Singapore into a land of foreigners
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Singapore will become Ingapore soon with all the indians from other countries coming into Singapore and we'll all do the coconut tree dance.
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Originally posted by hampden11:Freakass,
Those are not baseless comments, maybe you should go overseas sometime soon if you are not overtaxed and stuff. Some communities are actually very friendly to foreigners and P.Rs. Maybe you stepped on their toes before? I dun know. If you treat them with respect and politness, they will see you no longer as a treat. Are you sure you are not the one making baseless remarks?
I shall not argue on this. Different people get different treatments in different countries. Let's not generalise on this.
I am not saying there are no taxes. Other than income tax, Singapore have extra charges for? ERP, COE, Road tax? When they pass the bill, there s no opposing voice. And I need not tell you why cos ANY good opposition leader in the past is either sued or bankrupt.
ERP, COE, Road tax. They only have 1 aim - to reduce traffic congestion in tiny Singapore and its limited roads. Will Singaporeans listen if the government tells them by word of mouth, "People, please do not buy cars for the benefit of all road users. If you're filthy rich, please buy only 1 car." You think it will have effect? And you guys want opposition for such petty matters? Please be more far-sighted and think of the big picture.
Have the gahmen ever thought of how the ppl feel? Everytime they change their focus of field expertise, from like engineering to IT, how about those ppl who are engineered trained in their 40s to 50s? Work at MacDonald's? Even if they receive new training in IT field, they have to compete with young ppl who might be fresh grads.
Well, what do you suggest we do then? Let Singapore be a stick-in-the-mud and don't progress? Has the opposition got any ideas on how to solve this problem or are they still busy trying to win hearts by discussing petty little issues and avoiding national issues? They make better village chiefs I would say. National leaders? Nah...
For your information, we are a small population no doubt, but I find it strange that singapore is pushing to train world class atlethics and other talents and at the same time when they are at the peak go NS? I know people will cry foul play if a few do not have to serve NS, but exemptions can be made. Good althletics or other talent like singers and musicians( I would not want to give more examples as u got the picture... right? If not too bad lah.) make it like a reward, if they can reach that caliber, they qualify for only BMT training then off they go? Rules are man made. Anything is possible.
Personally, I agree with what you're trying to put across. But if you think of it on a national level, do u think it's possible to carry this out? How do we gauge who the elites are? And why do they deserve exemption? Lots of other people will come out with bizzare reasons on why they shld be exempted frm NS. Then the next thing tht the opposition parties will accuse the PAP of is on practising elitism... -
Nice reply but a constant issue is that Singaporeans kept getting denied opportunities to train to a higher level because it is very costly and the government does not want to pay.Originally posted by Ponders:Sometimes it's not only low-end jobs that only foreigners can do.
And why many "high-end" jobs are left to foreigners because Singaopre lack the manpower with the skills to do so.
I am not saying Singaporeans can't do them but there's simply not enough going around OR the experience the foreigners have is needed here.
Take for example SAP analysts, there simply isn't enough around and Singaporeans expect salaries of $3000-$3200 for first pay.
A foreigner SAP analyst is willing to settle for $2400-$2600 and they are experienced.
They are more exposed to SAP applications, able to troubleshoot and have experienced screw ups in the SAP system. This is because back home, the companies they work for do not have an establish set of procedures and they have a much complicated system of doing things. They have to exploit SAP's capabilities to counter this problem
Whereas a local SAP analyst learn their stuff in a "assumed" everything smooth sailing environment. They are well trained, but they are not as ready to counter expected problems.
One of my beef with eduation in Singapore is that the government thinks what is best for industry and the manpower requirements etc, - which is an inexact science.
We should import talent when we need them for industries as required but by and large Singaporeans should be able to freely obtain advance and super advance education and training at State cost without bonds because they are citizens so that they can compete internationally.
Besides why bond? - This impinges on academic freedom - Singapore is only one city and some of the stuff we are engaged in may not be interesting for others so if you are Singaporean - you got no choice but give up your area of expertise, research, training?
Of course not, Singaporeans should then go anywhere they can put their interests and skills to the best application.
We can offer aliens educational opportunities but they should be bonded to the hilt and do stuff that we want done - citizenship can only come through NS.
When the gap/benefit for citizens and aliens are widened - many more people will then salivate to become Singaporeans.
When you treat your own people like Shit-e, even aliens don't want to get stain with crap.
We need to insist that all future educational opportunities be maximised for Singaporeans, and tax and spend a lot more on it. Singaporeans who can make the manimum standards for training academically or vocationalyl should be trained so long as they apply for it. It typically cost upwards of US$500 000 for advanced training and support.
Maximize Singaporean freedoms by doing away with bonds especially for non-military sscholars. Then we can improve the value of citizenship and encourage true talents, intellectual development and set the course for multiple years of multiple Nobel prizes. -
Good attitude!! I have been campaigning privately for this issue - If India, Malaysian, China was so good - why did your ancestors end up in Singapore?Originally posted by headset:One must acknowledge, that we are a nation of immigrants and decendents of immigrants. However, when the sovrignty of our country was forged, the so were "Singaporeans". An identity. A commitment to each other that we have the common interests of our nation and families at heart. Our forefathers built this nation and have passed on the baton to us.
Im not gonna say that we can do without forign tallent. I say rather that they are almost essential to the betterment of our economy. However i stress the important point that there should be a distinction between singaporeans and forigners. To be singaporean should be a privilage. It should carry exclusive rights. As such it should have some value. These rights and privilages should not be handend out on large scales thru reckless issuing of PR and resident status. Rather, like other countries and like singapore in the past, there should be strict criteria that determine the level of commitment individuals have to our nation.
I do not believe that our country is being raped. Rather i say that we are being prostituted. Those that we chare with the responsibility of taking the helm of our nation , sad to say, have a clear disconnect with the masses. In prostitution it is not the prostitute that makes any gain. It is ultimately the pimp that reaps the greatest reward.
We have our indipendence. Now a new war must be fought. A fight for freedom and rights. Rights that the people determine. Singaporeans. This will unify us.
Remember, there is no Malay, Indian, Chinese or Eurasian. SUch terms are colonial classifications and are irrelevant. There are only SINGAPOREANS and Forigners.
We need to promote a Singaporean identity defined by our values - some values are universal despite PAP protestations - Liberty and freedom in all respects attract people regardless of where they are from.
I hate foreign media who keep referring to Chinese- Singapore. I have nothing in common with the Chinese except skin colour and looks. I am Singaporean -period. The master race, Lord of the Realm.
Look at Australians, Canadians, Americans - the majority race is white - English or British stock - that de-ephasized Englishness and co-opted values from other cultures as required to forged a new "race". -
Singapore used to be a malay country...then chinese country...now...its becoming like a part of china
i see china ppl eveywhere -
please its not the indians..its the china...lol...da indians r usually not given the PR status even if they r qualified...i know some while applying for australian PR...this guy he has got a job here..got a degree etc..but he cant get the PR..so he applied for oz PR and got it within months....but china ppl get the PR so easily..Originally posted by dahliamorie:Singapore will become Ingapore soon with all the indians from other countries coming into Singapore and we'll all do the coconut tree dance.
so dont worry bout tree dance..ur govt will maake sure it wont happen -
Are Sinagporeans really a new race?
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Its about local born and a PR and not race. They can come and go easily, bring down your wages and take away you rice bowl without serving NS.Originally posted by plo30360:Are Sinagporeans really a new race? -
Fact is: locals don't want to do or cannot do the jobs these foreigners are doing.
Domestic maids: Which Singaporean will be willing to accept a job that pays less than $600 (many pay their maids only $300) a month and have to work 12 hours a day without weekends off and no annual leave? They have to sleep in the kitchen or the storeroom and not allowed to have friends or receive phone calls?
If we get rid of these maids and let the local ah sor take over the jobs on a part-time basis, will Singaporean employers accept it? No, they won't pay $500 a month for a part-time maid when they can get a full-time servant for that price. And who's going to make milk for the baby at night?
Construction workers: These physically demanding jobs are not the ones our ah peks can handle. How many of our young unemployed guys are willing to work in these jobs on the pay we give foreign workers? If we pay them the kind of salaries construction workers in the UK command, the developer will raise housing prices.
Road works labourers: Alot of these appear to be Indian or Bangladeshi nationals. If we send them home, can we find young Singaporean men to take over these unglam, low-paid, unskilled jobs? These jobs are too physically taxing for the older unemployed and our youngsters would rather die than be seen working by the road.
Scientists and researchers: There are lots of jobs for these but the vast majority of our unemployed Singaporeans do not have a Masters, much less a PhD, which is the minimum requirement for many of these jobs.
We have to take in so many foreigners because there is a mismatch between jobs and expectations on one hand, and a mismatch between jobs and skills on the other.
SMEs in Singapore can hardly afford to pay the high salaries Singaporeans demand for low- or unskilled jobs and yet remain competitive. I can only hope that the casinos will keep unskilled jobs like cleaners, waiters, hotel staff for Singaporeans. Only the casino can afford to pay above market rates for unskilled jobs. -
casino money is dirty and bloody. u have anything to do with it. ur karma fcukedOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:Only the casino can afford to pay above market rates for unskilled jobs. -
oxford mushroom:
“Fact is: locals don't want to do or cannot do the jobs these foreigners are doing---
Domestic maids---
Construction workers: ---
Road works labourers: ---
Scientists and researchers: ---
unskilled jobs..”
Granted some Singaporeans are fussy but the majorities are not about jobs. You will be really surprised with the number of people that had upgraded their skills each time and yet cannot find a decent job cos they simply cannot afford to compete with foreigners. There also many people with masters degrees and Phds who are simply not applying their knowledge to areas of their speciality but forced to downgrade cos of “Foreign Talents”.
The government made a terrible mistake of opening the “Floodgates” and “Foreign Talents” in droves moved in without any conditions. The majority of these so-called “Foreign Talents” are in fact cheap professionals brought in by companies to beef up their profits. Singaporeans are not going to benefit from these people. In fact they are here to learn from us instead.
The governmentÂ’s biggest blunder is opening and allowing these people from working here without having some criteria like its done in the USA, UK, Australia + Malaysia. -
PLEASE LAH....THE JOBS PPL TALKING BOUT IS MOSTLY SKILLED..LIKE IN I.TOriginally posted by claudetnt:oxford mushroom:
“Fact is: locals don't want to do or cannot do the jobs these foreigners are doing---
Domestic maids---
Construction workers: ---
Road works labourers: ---
Scientists and researchers: ---
unskilled jobs..”
Granted some Singaporeans are fussy but the majorities are not about jobs. You will be really surprised with the number of people that had upgraded their skills each time and yet cannot find a decent job cos they simply cannot afford to compete with foreigners. There also many people with masters degrees and Phds who are simply not applying their knowledge to areas of their speciality but forced to downgrade cos of “Foreign Talents”.
The government made a terrible mistake of opening the “Floodgates” and “Foreign Talents” in droves moved in without any conditions. The majority of these so-called “Foreign Talents” are in fact cheap professionals brought in by companies to beef up their profits. Singaporeans are not going to benefit from these people. In fact they are here to learn from us instead.
The governmentÂ’s biggest blunder is opening and allowing these people from working here without having some criteria like its done in the USA, UK, Australia + Malaysia.
DEVELOPERS, QA, IT MANAGERS...THESE JOBS R GIVEN TO CHINA, INDIANS, ANG MOHS...
IM NOT SURE ABOUT OTHER LINES... -
Absolutely correct Oxford Member.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Fact is: locals don't want to do or cannot do the jobs these foreigners are doing.
Domestic maids: Which Singaporean will be willing to accept a job that pays less than $600 (many pay their maids only $300) a month and have to work 12 hours a day without weekends off and no annual leave? They have to sleep in the kitchen or the storeroom and not allowed to have friends or receive phone calls?
If we get rid of these maids and let the local ah sor take over the jobs on a part-time basis, will Singaporean employers accept it? No, they won't pay $500 a month for a part-time maid when they can get a full-time servant for that price. And who's going to make milk for the baby at night?
Construction workers: These physically demanding jobs are not the ones our ah peks can handle. How many of our young unemployed guys are willing to work in these jobs on the pay we give foreign workers? If we pay them the kind of salaries construction workers in the UK command, the developer will raise housing prices.
Road works labourers: Alot of these appear to be Indian or Bangladeshi nationals. If we send them home, can we find young Singaporean men to take over these unglam, low-paid, unskilled jobs? These jobs are too physically taxing for the older unemployed and our youngsters would rather die than be seen working by the road.
Scientists and researchers: There are lots of jobs for these but the vast majority of our unemployed Singaporeans do not have a Masters, much less a PhD, which is the minimum requirement for many of these jobs.
We have to take in so many foreigners because there is a mismatch between jobs and expectations on one hand, and a mismatch between jobs and skills on the other.
SMEs in Singapore can hardly afford to pay the high salaries Singaporeans demand for low- or unskilled jobs and yet remain competitive. I can only hope that the casinos will keep unskilled jobs like cleaners, waiters, hotel staff for Singaporeans. Only the casino can afford to pay above market rates for unskilled jobs.
However, necessity is the mother of invention.
If there were limits to low-skilled foreign labour we would have development of newer services, technologies to cope with these jobs.
Maids - laundromats, drop off and devliery, weekly cleaning janitorial services, food delivery services
Who should make milk for baby - Mummy right? - Brea st is best right?
There will always be need for manual labour cos not eveything can be automated or mechanized but surely from a Singaporean context - we ought to be capable of moving in that direction?!?
Say argument in the USA regarding Mexican farm labour.
But the US Dept of Agri and other businesses always have research into labour-saving devices.
In fact the farm machinery revolution made many farm labourers obsolete in the last centruy - cotton picking, wheat harvesting, grape pcikign etc.
I don't buy that we need large numbers of unskilled labour -of course it is nice thoough.
Contrary to popular beliefs - mechanization of many road building methods require skilled and trained operators - which is why so many are white workers (I see that all the time) in the US. Maybe we are not doing it right?!?! Anyone from LTA can comment?
But paying a few hundred dollars and getting long hours of labour in Singapore - for want of a better description is indentured slavery.
But we don't make the world the way it is - those people probably get a fortune when money is remitted to their villages. -
Every profession faces foreign competition, whether it is the IT sector or in medicine. If foreign IT professionals can do the same job as us for a lower price, employers will either employ foreigners or move the entire company to India. Radiologists have lost their jobs to Indian doctors, so why not IT jobs?
Many IT jobs in Europe and in the US have gone to foreigners as well. The only way forward is to move to higher value jobs. There are no jobs in Singapore for diagnostic radiologists, so these doctors have to move into therapeutic radiology or lose their jobs. If there are too many Indian programmers willing and able to take your job for less, you will have to go into R&D or some other higher value services that the foreigner cannot do.
Nobody owes us a living. Why go into a field that is already filled to capacity? With so many people doing IT and media studies, of course it will be difficult to get jobs in these fields. Young people should go into rapidly emerging industries such as nanotechnology, robotics and biotechnology. -
However, necessity is the mother of invention.
True, if the government would ban all foreigners working as domestic maids in Singapore, I will start a nanny and part-time maid service immediately, employing unskilled locals who cannot find other jobs.
If there were limits to low-skilled foreign labour we would have development of newer services, technologies to cope with these jobs.
But do you seriously think Singaporeans will agree to that? People talk about getting rid of foreign workers, but only if it does not inconvenience them and they certainly will not let go of their indentured domestic servants. -
Sg is changing
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It has been estimated that between two to three per cent of IT jobs in the US will be lost annually to lower-wage developing countries through offshoring. But ithere are also expanding opportunities for those trained in fields such as software architecture, product design, project management and IT consulting."
See this interesting article as well:
http://www.cognizant.ch/news/articles/items/feb23Time.pdf -
You are speaking the realty!! imagine a local maid employed to look after your baby sitting next to you watching Da Chang Jin every evening? or one out of every 3 phone calls in your house is for the maid? there are reasons why we don't see mainland chinese nannies or maids here.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:True, if the government would ban all foreigners working as domestic maids in Singapore, I will start a nanny and part-time maid service immediately, employing unskilled locals who cannot find other jobs.
But do you seriously think Singaporeans will agree to that? People talk about getting rid of foreign workers, but only if it does not inconvenience them and they certainly will not let go of their indentured domestic servants. -
Valentinoo:
“PLEASE LAH....THE JOBS PPL TALKING BOUT IS MOSTLY SKILLED..LIKE IN I.T DEVELOPERS, QA, IT MANAGERS...THESE JOBS R GIVEN TO CHINA, INDIANS, ANG MOHS... IM NOT SURE ABOUT OTHER LINES”
These people are not limited to the areas you have mentioned but have extended to almost all areas except the politicians. I guess we should now get the government to revise our constitution so that these people can government us! -
Assuming that we need/require the services/ "talent" of these FTs, they should just be given work permits and not PRs/citizenship status. Otherwise during poor/bad economic periods, they will still be here to nibble at the shrinking pie. Let's face it, they are here for the "peanuts".Originally posted by c-lim76:Take a look around. All you will see are foreigners crawling around all over the place. The government has been handing out PR's like chocolates. What exactly is the diference between being a PR and a Singaporean? Only the progress package payments i suppose. I have malaysians working in my office who are in their early twenties went to University in Singapore and get all benefits of being a singaporean. The only difference they dont need to serve NS. They happy with their PR. Can still buy HDB flat. All our jobs are going to all this 'foreign talents'. Are massage parlour workers from China classified as 'foreign talents' too? Thanks PAP you have done a great job in allowing foreigners to rape our country. -
Aren't there any FTs in parliament already?Originally posted by claudetnt:Valentinoo:
“PLEASE LAH....THE JOBS PPL TALKING BOUT IS MOSTLY SKILLED..LIKE IN I.T DEVELOPERS, QA, IT MANAGERS...THESE JOBS R GIVEN TO CHINA, INDIANS, ANG MOHS... IM NOT SURE ABOUT OTHER LINES”
These people are not limited to the areas you have mentioned but have extended to almost all areas except the politicians. I guess we should now get the government to revise our constitution so that these people can government us! -
our construction technology is still primitive, not to mention our cleanliness tech.Originally posted by Dogtor:Absolutely correct Oxford Member.
However, necessity is the mother of invention.
If there were limits to low-skilled foreign labour we would have development of newer services, technologies to cope with these jobs.
Maids - laundromats, drop off and devliery, weekly cleaning janitorial services, food delivery services
Who should make milk for baby - Mummy right? - Brea st is best right?
There will always be need for manual labour cos not eveything can be automated or mechanized but surely from a Singaporean context - we ought to be capable of moving in that direction?!?
Say argument in the USA regarding Mexican farm labour.
But the US Dept of Agri and other businesses always have research into labour-saving devices.
In fact the farm machinery revolution made many farm labourers obsolete in the last centruy - cotton picking, wheat harvesting, grape pcikign etc.
I don't buy that we need large numbers of unskilled labour -of course it is nice thoough.
Contrary to popular beliefs - mechanization of many road building methods require skilled and trained operators - which is why so many are white workers (I see that all the time) in the US. Maybe we are not doing it right?!?! Anyone from LTA can comment?
But paying a few hundred dollars and getting long hours of labour in Singapore - for want of a better description is indentured slavery.
But we don't make the world the way it is - those people probably get a fortune when money is remitted to their villages. -
I fully agree.Originally posted by Dogtor:Good attitude!! I have been campaigning privately for this issue - If India, Malaysian, China was so good - why did your ancestors end up in Singapore?
We need to promote a Singaporean identity defined by our values - some values are universal despite PAP protestations - Liberty and freedom in all respects attract people regardless of where they are from.
I hate foreign media who keep referring to Chinese- Singapore. I have nothing in common with the Chinese except skin colour and looks. I am Singaporean -period. The master race, Lord of the Realm.
Look at Australians, Canadians, Americans - the majority race is white - English or British stock - that de-ephasized Englishness and co-opted values from other cultures as required to forged a new "race".
Somehow, policies have been crafted to accentutate each race rather than build a common Singaporean identity.
We have to take it upon ourselves.Reject tags of a Chinese nation, lambast those who would call us thus, pressure groups should work actively to spread this common culture, and a set of universal non-partisan ideals that no Party should have a say. -
We need to insist that all future educational opportunities be maximised for Singaporeans, and tax and spend a lot more on it. Singaporeans who can make the manimum standards for training academically or vocationalyl should be trained so long as they apply for it. It typically cost upwards of US$500 000 for advanced training and support.
Singaporeans don't want to pay more taxes. As it is, 40% of Singaporeans do not pay any taxes at all (elderly, housewives, students, handicapped, unemployed, low income). The very rich can move their money and jobs somewhere else and it will be those in the middle that will get squeezed. -
chio bu u wan lahOriginally posted by Nikar2:every morning on the MRT, i see a lot a lot of malaysians, even thais and indonesian-chinese, and a lot of mainland chinese around the stations.
not that there's anything wrong lah, especially if you consider the fact that a lot of these malaysian-chinese and mainland chinese girls, some of them chio until no words can describe, chio until no SG girl can ever hope to compare.
KNN......last time at outram park(where there's lots of chinese nationals), i saw his darn pretty girl who looks way prettier than Chiling Lin.....KNN.....such talent must retain; but ang-mohs......a bit ok lah, but if 5 out of 7 jobs go to these foreigners, then we become construction workers lah?!