I would rather you look at our ancestor this way: The ancestors of Singaporean were good therefore Singapore is what it is today, well ahead of China, India, Malaysia in many ways.Originally posted by Dogtor:Good attitude!! I have been campaigning privately for this issue - If India, Malaysian, China was so good - why did your ancestors end up in Singapore?
We need to promote a Singaporean identity defined by our values - some values are universal despite PAP protestations - Liberty and freedom in all respects attract people regardless of where they are from.
I hate foreign media who keep referring to Chinese- Singapore. I have nothing in common with the Chinese except skin colour and looks. I am Singaporean -period. The master race, Lord of the Realm.
Look at Australians, Canadians, Americans - the majority race is white - English or British stock - that de-ephasized Englishness and co-opted values from other cultures as required to forged a new "race".
Its about local born and a PR and not race. They can come and go easily, bring down your wages and take away you rice bowl without serving NS.
Originally posted by plo30360:well said.
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2nd gen PR's have to serve NS.
They are not allowed to buy new HDBs, only resale flats,they don't get the same education grants and subsidies as citizens. They don't have the 'no-visa' requirement for travelling to ASEAN countries. There are many more disadvantages to being a PR.
And lets remember just as there are fair wethered PRs there are fair weathered citizens.
Singapore's ancestors were once 'PRs'.Every country in the world today is like that.
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I am also not allowed to buy new HDBs, and until recently only 3-room flats in mature (ie. old) estates in non-central (ie. ulu) areas...all because I am single. And I have served 2.5 years of NS and done my 13 year cycle as a reservistOriginally posted by plo30360:[b]
They are not allowed to buy new HDBs, only resale flats,they don't get the same education grants and subsidies as citizens.
This a policy of the government who wants more children
I am also not allowed to buy new HDBs, and until recently only 3-room flats in mature (ie. old) estates in non-central (ie. ulu) areas...all because I am single. And I have served 2.5 years of NS and done my 13 year cycle as a reservist Evil or Very Mad
Before a PR becomes a PR he is issued a employment pass(work permit). Not every PR to be gets PR after the employment pass.So in this way its the governmet who encourages people to stay for a while and leave
We need foreign talent but I agree that we should give out work permits, not PR unless they are prepared to serve NS. The older ones should serve 2 years of NS in civil defence or nursing homes before they are eligible for PR.
We need foreign talent but I agree that we should give out work permits, not PR unless they are prepared to serve NS. The older ones should serve 2 years of NS in civil defence or nursing homes before they are eligible for PR.
Just think. At what rate is Singapore's economy improves since independence as compared to Australia. How long did it take for Singapore to climb up to a 1st class country and how long did it take Australia?Originally posted by fymk:I think it is the whole damn system that is the problem. I don't see Australia giving out jobs just because of global competition - they only allow foreigners to enter when there is no Australians with that specific skill set. Australians are favoured over foreigners- this I can tell you.
I reject this argument. Even fewer employment pass holders should get PR. Unless they satisfy certain strict criteria like having at least 1million dollars to invest, highly sought-after skills that we cannot find in our own citizens, they should not even be considered for PR.Originally posted by plo30360:Before a PR becomes a PR he is issued a employment pass(work permit). Not every PR to be gets PR after the employment pass.So in this way its the governmet who encourages people to stay for a while and leave
2nd gen PRs have to serve NS and there is no gurantee they will get citizenship after having served NS.
As for the older ones, the 1st gen PRs, they were given PR on the merit they'll be able to contribute to Singapore's economy by taxes etc. Its not practical for PRs who are over 45 to serve NS,their employers simply will not grant them leave.
Read somewhere in dis forum you formerly malaysian is it?Originally posted by sgdiehard:well said.![]()
yes, I was.Originally posted by Glimmerman:Read somewhere in dis forum you formerly malaysian is it?
Imagine if the ancestors of Singapore had to fufill such criteria. I suspect,very few would have come here.People tend to forget once upon a time their ancestors were foriegners.
I reject this argument. Even fewer employment pass holders should get PR. Unless they satisfy certain strict criteria like having at least 1million dollars to invest, highly sought-after skills that we cannot find in our own citizens, they should not even be considered for PR.
Are you refering the 1st gen PR or 2nd gen PR here?
As for NS, what makes you think employers of Singaporeans are happy to grant us leave for ICT. During the 2.5 years of NS, we have to live on the meagre allowance and feed our family all the same. If these foreigners desire to be Singapore PRs that much, they must serve 2 years of NS...period.
Imagine if the ancestors of Singapore had to fufill such criteria. I suspect,very few would have come here.People tend to forget once upon a time their ancestors were foriegners.Once upon a time when our ancestors came, they were not required to serve NS either..
Can we expect a Finance Manager with MBa - (retrenched or otherwise) - to go back to school, upgrade himself with a BioTECH degree ?Yes, I fully expect them to go back to school and upgrade their skills.
How many Doctors - or wanna-be doctors - without work - will be willing to switch into BioTECH or into the NEW INDUSTRIES ?
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Are you for real, or simply "shooting off blanks" for the sake of a debate ?
Yes, I fully expect them to go back to school and upgrade their skills.
Originally posted by Atobe:Time to wake up and see how the world has changed. Workers in developing countries are catching up fast and Singapore is too closely plugged into the global economy to use protectionism as a means of shielding ourselves from global competition. In any case, it will not work...we are too small. Singapore needs the world more than the world needs us..
Are you for real, or simply "shooting off blanks" for the sake of a debate ?
Have you seriously given some sensible consideration of your expectation for someone - having been [b]retrenched at the age of mid-to-late 40s, or even early 50s - to go back to the university, to switch from a MBa to a basic BSc Degree ?
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Originally posted by oxford mushroom:At least this part of your idealistic talk makes more practical sense for an MBA.
If you cannot imagine switching from your MBA to a BSc at 40, then consider switching from your managerial job to being a baker with lower pay. It is better than being jobless.
While your facts are based on historical information, in a fast paced globalised world dictated by politics, nothing remains the same.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Prior to the Industrial Revolution, Britain's economy was heavily reliant on wool and the textile industry. As its empire expanded and its colonies provided a cheaper source of textile with cotton from India and cheap labour to run its mills, British textile workers lost their jobs and moved on to mining, steel making and heavy industries. As the developing world moved into heavy industries and now make better and cheaper cars, we see British car makers lose their jobs as companies like Rover and now Peugeot close their factories. Britain now makes its money from its service sector, with London being the largest finance centre in the world.
Monkey see, monkey do. Different monkeys will learn tricks at different pace, but in the end some monkey somewhere will do it better and faster before we even reach breakeven point due to some reason or other - (economies of scale for a start).
Throughout its history, British workers have lost their jobs to cheaper foreign competitors but have successfully moved up the economic food chain. Singapore has to do the same. We cannot be reliant on our IT and traditional manufacturing industries when Indian and China can do these better and cheaper. We have to make high value electronics and pharmaceuticals that they cannot (at the moment). What about the MBA holder who is more comfortable in the commercial world? You cannot expect to hold that managerial job when operations have been downsized due to outsourcing. But if you can become a successful fund manager, you salary will increase, not drop.
Can the 'Ikan Bilis" grow into bigger fishes by finding their own worms, when all the worms are supposedly hoarded and controlled by a BIGGER WHALE ?
If we try to protect our feeding ground from hoards of other ikan bilis, we will ultimately fail. The solution is that we must become bigger and go for higher value prizes. We cannot expect the government to help us find our worms as ikan bilis. We have to be larger fishes that feed on the new ikan bilis that have arrived.
In a Globalised World, such advantage can only be shortlived when there are multiple global points of execellence.
China and India will take our lower skilled jobs, but as they progress they will demand higher value goods. Their population will demand better drugs, better electronics that they lack...so there will be an outlet for our pharmaceuticals and products of our nanotechnology industries. We will become the bigger fish that feed on the ikan bilis.
Your call seems to be the often sung and tired refrain that does not seem to reveal any further creative inspiration in thought, other then mere words of exhortation from the leaders of some Animal Farm.
We now see our lower skilled jobs threatened by foreigners who can do them at a lower price. If you refuse to become bigger and upgrade your skills, because you are already 40, then the future will be dismal for you indeed. Do you expect a 40-year-old ikan bilis to be able to compete for the same worm as a 20-year-old new arrival? Especially when there are hoardes of them?
Grow up and move up the food chain. Be big or be eaten.