I was moved to tears
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A very interesting perspective.Originally posted by vaxjunior:Like the show, Something's got to give. You can't expect us to just keep coughing up money.
This is also in line with the overall societal equalization - the rich should not just get richer. They should also shoulder more of the cost of society. Because in the same line of thought, those who are given more, more is expected of them.
There is one question though, which is how much do we expect the rich to keep coughing up the money? -
Now this is what I call quality reply! This is the kind of reply that will set everyone thinking instead of arguing. A balanced argument with a mature writing style. Persuasive with solid facts and experiences. Not biased against any individual or group. No senseless defamation. Reply was obviously given based on what he personally felt and not swayed or affected by who or which party he supports.Originally posted by vaxjunior:Hi, I think that this is a great question to ask...esp in light of the constant criticism by the ruling party of opposition party (and everybody else) for not being able to come up with credible alternative.
First, I agree that car ownership in Singapore has to be controlled one way or another. The social cost is too high (i.e. traffic jams) as the cost of time wasted just travelling around to go to work or to do business is just too high. I am now living in the Washington DC and the bloody traffic is always a big problem. They have tons of statistics to show how much that is costing the people in terms of wasted time and productivity. I was also in Korea a few years back and on the one hand they are proud of the fact that Koreans can own on average about 3-4 cars per household, they were also complaining of the massive jams in Seoul. In other words, there is much wisdom in keeping the car population in Singapore in control.
Second, I don't agree however that the cost of every mode of transportation in Singapore should be increasing. Especially public transport run by public/govt organizations (trying to be private). I propose that the monies collected from the ERP/COE should be used to subsidise the operations of public transportation. I don't see the rationale that all monies collected by the government via whatever form (e.g. income tax, property tax) should go to a general coffer so that we can see a grossly over exaggerated reserve. Now that everyone is hurting with the gas prices being in the 70dollar a barrel stratosphere, the govt or whoever is in charge of the transportation (PTC e.g.) should step in and give us who care about the environment/or who can't plain afford the car a "break". Like the show, Something's got to give. You can't expect us to just keep coughing up money.
This "solution" is not rocket science and in fact is a practice used here in Virginia and Maryland. The state tolls monies are used to pay for extra roads and other public transportation. Their problem here is that they are not getting enough money and are even contemplating increasing tobbacco tax to subsidise public transportation (so that they can ease traffic jams). I hope this qualifies for a ok response to this teething problem.
This is also in line with the overall societal equalization - the rich should not just get richer. They should also shoulder more of the cost of society. Because in the same line of thought, those who are given more, more is expected of them.
vaxjunior! We need more people like you in this forum! It makes the forum a much more pleasant place to chat in. Different views and opinions are raised in such a mature and polite manner, with no intention to start a vicious argument... WELL DONE!
By the way, I totally agree with what you said, especially the part on public transport. -
agwee too, that it offers fresh perspective from other cities ...Originally posted by freakass:Now this is what I call quality reply! This is the kind of reply that will set everyone thinking instead of arguing. A balanced argument with a mature writing style. Persuasive with solid facts and experiences. Not biased against any individual or group. No senseless defamation. Reply was obviously given based on what he personally felt and not swayed or affected by who or which party he supports.
vaxjunior! We need more people like you in this forum! It makes the forum a much more pleasant place to chat in. Different views and opinions are raised in such a mature and polite manner, with no intention to start a vicious argument... WELL DONE!
By the way, I totally agree with what you said, especially the part on public transport. -
See? My point exactly.....
Everyone and anyone with an average IQ can figure out that being opposition is all work and not returns.
Yet, these obviously not stupid people willing to do it.
What else can it be? PASSION.
well said bro. i have utmost respect for all good opposition party who has the courage to do so. what does these ppl tends to gain? nothing. they do so because they believe singaporean need someone to represent them to say No to the PAP. they believe singaporean need a choice.
but unfortunately, i have to agree that most singaporean indeed are too concern with their personal benefits above all.
anyway, irregardless of the outcome of the election, i would like to say well done Low thia kiang, steve chia, Goh meng seng, chia tik lek, chiam see tong.
i hope what you all have done the past week will ring a thoughts in the younger generations, that we indeed do have a choice. -
with regards to city transportation, i am of the opinion that the car we have today is no longer suitable for todays' megapoli. not only are we enslaved to oil by it, it is also not energy efficient and polluting as well.
fuel cell cars does not really resolve the pollution problem because the energy that is required to recharge the fuel cells comes from burning some other forms of fossil fuels in power stations. hybrid cars that promise greater efficiency and lower fuel consumption is also not the answer because it still uses up too much oil.
from the time the car was invented, it was meant to be a family car, for the enjoyment of the family. but if you look on the roads today, and you see the number of people sitting in those cars, especially on weekdays, more often than not, it is only the driver himself or with one other passenger. we have built ourselves cars meant to carry an entire family when most of the time we use it to carry just one person - ourselves.
the bulk of the energy that comes from burning oil is used to transport this 1-ton piece of metal everywhere we go, when what we really want is to transport one or two 60 kg persons. the present day car is clearly not optimised for city travelling, we really need a different sort of car to optimise traffic and economise oil usage. it would be as lightweight as a motorcycle but yet offer the protection of a car. this is no fiction and can be found here:
http://www.carver-europe.com/
if only companies like Toyota, General Motors would take the initiative to mass produce these cars of the future, we would revolutionalise tomorrow's city travelling. -
Bros, with all you bright people in this forum, the solutions discussed regarding the car issue as mentioned by freakass, can definitely play a part in alleviating the costs of car ownership in S'pore. Hearing how other govts in other countries run their systems is refreshing too.
I personally believe that there are also other alternatives to the COE system which controls our car population, for eg: 1) Pegging car ownerships to personal income or money in the bank 2) Impose a ruling which bans $0 downpayment and set a minimum one (30% or 40%) as in the 80s and 90s. and etc.
However, no matter what we have discussed here, we cannot deny that these are all works of the ruling party. If they have a strong mandate, things are not gonna change. Unless bros like freakass or vaxjunior joins the PAP or fight it out from the opposition party. -
i told my frens i realli very nervous later abt the results. they called me siao. Is this the future of spore?
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I know that in some countries (sorry ah, I don't remember which c'tries), cars going in to the city must be filled up with passengers. For drivers whom don't bother to look for passengers, they would have to pay a levy.Originally posted by freakass:Let us put aside PAP and the opposition for now. I have a question to ask and I hope to see really interesting and smart replies.
We all hate the high COE, road tax and ERP charges in Singapore, especially current car owners and most probably future car owners too.. It makes owning a car in Singapore so darn expensive! However, the main reason for making ownership of cars in Singapore expensive is that we seriously do not have enough roads to accomodate high numbers of cars. Next, even if the number of cars have been limited by high COE and road tax, we still face the problem of traffic jams in certain areas due to peak hours, therefore the ERP was implemented.
We complain about the high costs of car ownership in Singapore, but at the same time we do not want to be caught in a jam every now and then. So anyone has any brilliant ideas to solve the above problems? (Make car ownership cheaper but at the same time not having over-congested roads in Singapore)
Owning a car in S'pore is a liability and not an asset. It's true that u save time and it is more convenient but guess that's the price you would have to pay in a land-scarce, city-state like S'pore. If u live in M'sia, then u won't have this problem. With such huge land, u've another problem of your car being "carnapped" and there is just no way to get it back
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For avoiding jams, then avoid peak hours. Wait up early, shower and leave house early. Of course u will reach office early lor. Then, go eat your BF, read your newspaper and by then, time to start work. Lack the discipline? Then offer to send your neighbour's children to school and head to office after that. Kill so many birds with one stone, ºÎÀÖ¶ø²»Îª (everybody is happy)? After work, go for a 1/2 hour run and then, (abt an hour if u include warm-up and cool-down (AND YES PEOPLE, IT IS COOL-DOWN AND NOT WARM-DOWN, U CAN NEVER WARM SOMETHING DOWN!!!!!) pick up your car and home-sweet-home.
If you do drive during peak hours, then be cautious and avoid accidents at all cause. Encountering a traffic accident during peak period is nightmarish for drivers
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A combination of driving and riding (the MRT) may help also; check out http://spring.ura.gov.sg/lad/ecas/motorist/seasonparking.cfm
Are my ideas brilliant? It's ok if they aren't, I'm killing time while waiting for the GE results.
Ai-pin-ai-qin, it is just not possible when it comes to car ownership lor! Not especially in our sunny island. -
I've been saying that for 5 years now.Originally posted by caramon.:I learnt that COURAGE IS NOT THE ABSENCE OF FEAR. IT IS THE WILL TO ACT IN SPITE OF IT. -
well, for the odds that they are up against, you can't help but sympathise with these opposition candidates who must have taken a lot of guts to stand up.Originally posted by TooFree:One thing I hate about whiner is that they tend to degrade Singaporeans or exhibit low confidence for fellow Singaporeans in their argument. A good losers should reflecting clearly on their loses, recuperate, regroup and fight again in another five years time, not by pinpointing at fellow comrades of not being bold enough to vote for the opposition.
I have absolute trust in my fellow men to being mature enough to come to a decision on their vote. Be it the PAP, WP, SDP or SDA wins, the ulitimate outcome is that we Singaporeans stick together and move ahead.
it is not that we degrade the PAP supporters for they are also our family, friends and neighbours. it's just that sometimes you can't help but be disappointed with some of them because:
1. Their opinions are formed largely by the PAP mass propaganda, PAP say he is a crook, they believe he is a crook and don't think deeper for themselves.
2. They're afraid of repurcussions whatsoever if they don't vote for the govt because they have come to associate PAP with the govt and never even once considered that the govt can be some other party.
3. They're unforgiving towards the opposition because of their slightly less than impressive credentials when they should also consider that the rutheless treatment that opposition gets scares capable people away and what we have are truly courageous people who have stood forward.
4. They don't want to miss out on upgrading but fail to understand that if everybody thinks like that, we would always be at the mercy of their withholding of upgrading threats. -
People should not be afraid of their government. The government should be afraid of its people.
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Seriously, they're not going to care about the individuals who vote for opposition parties. It's simply a waste of time and resources to track them down one by one.
Why do you think there are so many polling stations? Convienience? It's so that they know which area supports them the least.
Your vote may be able to be traced back to you, but they're not going to care. Don't let them scare you into voting for them. -
*yawn*Originally posted by caramon.:Listening to Low Thia Khiang's speech at the AMK rally literally moved me to tears. I have always been patriotic, until the age of 16 I never missed a single NDP and I would cry if for some reason I couldn't watch it live. I would record it on tape and watch it again and again. Lee Kuan Yew was my hero. I used to think 'this great man has done so much for Singapore.' My heart swelled with pride whenever I saw them play his life-story on the big screen during NDP, his communist fighting days and independence from Malaysia, etc.
However, as I grew older, I became disillusioned. The turning point for me was the Cheng San incident in 1997. I was shocked that my 'hero' could stoop so low, to attack Tang Liang Hong and Jeyaretnam, and twist the law in their own favour. With my new found curiosity, I started researching on my own, including reading books like 'To Catch a Tartar' by Francis Seow, and 'The Hatchet Man of Singapore' by JBJ. I have an autographed copy of the book, signed by JBJ himself, on his 79th birthday no less. I will always remember buying it from him outside the SIR building at Lavender. He was so humble and obliging when I asked for his autograph.
I was incredibly moved when I heard Mr Low's speech. I truly admire the courage of the Ang Mo Kio 'Suicide Six' and I hope they won't lose their deposits. I feared the worst, but when I saw the pictures of the Ang Mo Kio rally, I now am certain that they won't lose their deposits. For six young first-timers, challenging the Prime Minister with all his heavy machinery, is no small task. They come across as very human, and I think they themselves have felt daunted at times.
But Mr Low said 'daring to die (gan2 si3) is much better than being afraid to die (pa4 si3).' This captured my sentiments exactly.
For too long, Singaporeans have been afraid to stand up for what they believe in. This is typified by the "all talk, no action", risk-averse mindset. All my Singaporean friends are concerned only with their own self interest, their own careers and their own social life. No one cares about their community, society or the nation. When I started my own business some years ago at the age of 21, people sneered at me and laughed. They said I should go and study hard and try to get a government job. That's why Glenda's story is truly an inspiration for me. She was 22 when she started her own business.
Something dawned upon me at 2 am in the morning, as I listened to Mr Low's speech on my headphones. I learnt that COURAGE IS NOT THE ABSENCE OF FEAR. IT IS THE WILL TO ACT IN SPITE OF IT.
The 'Suicide Six' and the whole WP team has shown immense courage, they are a true inspiration to Singaporeans, far more so than the gutless, faceless, anonymous PAP MPs who 'walkover' into Parliament hiding behind the shadows of their anchor Ministers. What's more, all these people had to be PERSUADED to join politics. They had to be invited to tea. And they miss Parliamentary sittings, they miss meet-the-people sessions.
Where is the justice when people like that get to represent us, whereas courageous, lion-hearted, passionate people like the "Suicide Six" and Steve Chia (who pledged FOUR MONTHS of his MP allowance to CCK, swore to move house to CCK if elected, and also GAVE OUT HIS HANDPHONE NUMBER during a rally) are derided as 'troublemakers' and their contributions mocked and scorned?
These 9 days have been life-changing for me.
I think we all know what the results will be tomorrow. In all honesty, I'd like to optimistic, but I truly think the PAP will sweep 83 out of 84 seats. Only Mr Low will be re-elected (with a large majority), with Sylvia and Chiam as NCMPs. But the PAP has been rocked. Their percentage of votes will drop from 75% to 65%, which is a huge decrease. The seeds of democracy have been sown, and in 2011 I am sure the winds of change will blow. Singapore needs people like this to revitalise the nation. I hope that they don't give up, and continue to fight for people like you and me.
I'd also like to thank those of you who courageously took videos and audio clips of the rallies. Without you, people like me (I'm in the UK) will never have gotten a chance to know what REALLY transpired on the ground, with CNA's biased reporting and all.
I would just like to appeal to my fellow Singaporeans, not to let these brave people down. Show a bit of courage yourselves, overcome your fears, and vote WP this election. Every vote counts, because every vote for the WP makes a two-vote difference (1 more for WP, 1 less for PAP). They will read out your NRIC number and your name. They will print serial numbers on the ballot paper. But please, don't let these brave people down and show a bit of courage yourselves.
That is the ONLY way forward for Singapore.
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quote:
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Originally posted by Erwin_Rommel:
How about Inderjit Singh disclosing to the media about his conversation with his "good friend" James Gomez? Wonder how his people are going to trust him.
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He should shave his beard and become clean cut kid.
He can keep his long hair and turban for religious reason though. -
Good question.Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:A very interesting perspective.
There is one question though, which is how much do we expect the rich to keep coughing up the money?
The fact that they are paying additional road tax, COEs, and ERPs charges everytime they buy another new spanky car show that they don't seem to mind "coughing" up the money to support their ostentatious lifestyles.
Frankly though, I am not sure but it is just one view of how things might be improved from the current situation. The bottom line is that we are not privy to the cost structures of the transportation companies (SMRT, SBS) and we are not clear how the machinery works (PTC) such that fare increases are always being implemented regardless of how profitable or not they are. We defintely don't want to have a lousy public transport system but yet there are other ways to support them and I am just pointing out one obvious one.
Having said that, this is my two cents. I do not propose I have a holistic view of the problem - all complex problems have that property but the highly paid scholars and other civil servant might need to work harder and put their thinking cap together to think through and work out more ingenious solutions. ... that's all for now.
BTW...Freakass...you are welcome and I am glad that my two cents have some value to you...it would be really great to have more of such chats and discussion here. In a way, it is our limited way of providing feedback (assuming these threads are monitored) to the society/government. -
One of the most noble spirit is trying your best, even in the face of a certain failure. IsnÂ’t that what we see in this new batch of young well qualified WP members?
Would u study as hard for an exam if u knew that u are assured that u will FAIL. Or love a gal with the same passion even there is no chance ever of being with her?
It was commendable then when LTK said all the WP members were prepared to lose. They had no illusion of replacing the current governance, all they wanted was to provide an alternative voice for the mass. I guess a common perception people have is, how do I know the AP (I prefer the term to OP) members are credible and capable people who can steer SÂ’pore safely in times of danger? Passion is one thing, but ability and integrity is another issue right?
Nobody is suggesting that the current govt is replaced. PAP has done a good job and we should leave it that way. ItÂ’s just that not every of their policies sits well with the people, especially the lower income group.
So what we should be looking at is simply providing substantial check & balance against the ruling party. We all have the seen the pitfall of a single-man rule through NKF incident. ItÂ’s not like having a few AP more members in the parliament would topple the govtÂ… or these AP would orchestrate a grand strategy which seeks to slowly access our vast reserveÂ… all these just sound so far-fetched.
I just donÂ’t buy these conspiracy theoriesÂ… in other countries maybe, but if u open ur eyes and see, AP in Singapore has so much to lose rather than gain.
So whilst key issues like national securities and finance should rest firmly in the capable hands of PAP, it wouldnÂ’t hurt (amidst 84 seats) to have a few more non-conformity voice. They will certainly make the ministers think twice before implementing certain polices or think hard about how to make better use of the taxes collected. -
i was touched (sound corny i know) when i saw steve chia making his round alone, giving out pamplets to the residents.
It relt takes a lot of courage... it's diff for PAP members as they have big shot ministers and a whole fleet of runners with them. The resources, logistic support for these opposition members is so scarce... i rely salute these guys
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I think the opposition did well and their best. Losing is a great learning lesson.
Considering the facts, the winners echoed the words of the truly Singaporeans: we must leave the election behind and work towards common good
My family and I voted for the WP but that is not good enough to change politics entrenched so deeply in many minds whose votes still count for PAP. The results certainly show People are not apolitical as many so believed. Most people voted according to their lower aspirations but for many who are of higher IQ and wanted a fairer government: I believed a good percentage voted for the opposition parties We are a peaceable nation of people who understands the dynamics in election i.e. we all had the great People Power, but our people had never wanted or desire to take to the streets to protest unlike many neigbouring countries. However, the Internet is a great indicator of the higher aspirations of most thinking Singaporeans. This is a fact that the ruling party will and cannot ignore. I welcome the statement of the Minister of Communication that the Internet will be studied. However, to take high handled actions against those who decide not to vote for them will definitely leave people with other alternatives:
Which I guess nobody will ever know for sure. It is therefore understandable that the high handled tactics of intimadation by fears and threats will not work well among such protest votes. To me, that's a good source & great feedback for the garmen!
I prayed and congratulate the our P.M. which has a comfortable margin of win, and within my expectations< I never sold any stocks, 'cause they will win between 60 - 70 >however, he has a lot to convince us that the future in his hand for the nation will truly be that good and work towards that for all Singaporeans.
May God continue to bless the people as we all acknowledge in this election His sovereign hand as expressed in the minds and heart of the people of Singapore, and to give us this freedom of expression, and to be able to worship Him freely according to our beliefs, and may Singapore be a prosperous people and may we continue to care for the people who have not what we have, and be generous to share. That BTW is our great kampong Spirit among all Singaporeans!
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Thumb Up for Suicide Six! u have proved u have given our PM a hard fight! u lost mainly due to experience n u should be proud of yourself.
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X2 they just overblown the Gomez case and criticised him lyk f*** jus becoz they wanted the public to think that he is not a creditable candidate....PAP wanted to crumble him and jus 2 days before they switched back to the main topic...so much time wasted wtf man...PAP offered lift upgrading....and lift upgradingOriginally posted by 798:agree x 2! these days the ruling parties are behaving like a third class government, bombarding oppositions immaturely for over a form case.
ask anyone here, who never committed a mistake before? at least gomez is gracious to admit his mistake for forgetfulness... whereas pap behave like a bunch of crybabies.
all the empty promises for upgrading lifts every floors n doing wayang things like cleaning floor for residents in front of camera, i dun buy their show anymore. ...don realise that there are more issues to touch on, such as cost of living, expenses, so on and forth... -
The suicide six did more than that. They proved that even people that are wet behind their ears (untested) can deny someone as high in stature as the PM the returns he was looking for.Originally posted by 798:Thumb Up for Suicide Six! u have proved u have given our PM a hard fight! u lost mainly due to experience n u should be proud of yourself.
Looks like AMK doesn't have as much 'Friends of LHL' as he thought it would eh? Maybe because he was too busy fixing the opposition to pay attention to his constituents. -
x2Originally posted by freakass:Now this is what I call quality reply! This is the kind of reply that will set everyone thinking instead of arguing. A balanced argument with a mature writing style. Persuasive with solid facts and experiences. Not biased against any individual or group. No senseless defamation. Reply was obviously given based on what he personally felt and not swayed or affected by who or which party he supports.
vaxjunior! We need more people like you in this forum! It makes the forum a much more pleasant place to chat in. Different views and opinions are raised in such a mature and polite manner, with no intention to start a vicious argument... WELL DONE!
By the way, I totally agree with what you said, especially the part on public transport.
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Aljunied residents...you are not to be forgiven......................
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hahahahah.Originally posted by Himbo:Aljunied residents...you are not to be forgiven......................
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can u explain to me what happened in 1997?Originally posted by caramon.:However, as I grew older, I became disillusioned. The turning point for me was the Cheng San incident in 1997. I was shocked that my 'hero' could stoop so low, to attack Tang Liang Hong and Jeyaretnam, and twist the law in their own favour. With my new found curiosity, I started researching on my own, including reading books like 'To Catch a Tartar' by Francis Seow, and 'The Hatchet Man of Singapore' by JBJ. I have an autographed copy of the book, signed by JBJ himself, on his 79th birthday no less. I will always remember buying it from him outside the SIR building at Lavender. He was so humble and obliging when I asked for his autograph.