I was moved to tears too...
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if you have evaulated your life in Singapore as a Singaporean. most of the time you are either paying taxes or paying loans.
If you have compared to other nations, this should have been better. -
Originally posted by burgerqueen:
Hi burgerqueen,
...because my [b]PAP has won. Though only 66.6% it's still a win. I hope they will win always...[/b]
its not that most of the opposition supporters are not in support of pap too.
pap had serve us pretty and reasonably well.
but we need more and stronger oppositions.
personally, i feel 5-10 oppositions parliment is a better balance.
we all must accept that more opposition is a natural progression of a nation. -
It's quality, not quantity that matters....Originally posted by blazon:Hi burgerqueen,
its not that most of the opposition supporters are not in support of pap too.
pap had serve us pretty and reasonably well.
but we need more and stronger oppositions.
personally, i feel 5-10 oppositions parliment is a better balance.
we all must accept that more opposition is a natural progression of a nation.
Will we ever get Opposition party members with the calibres of Tommy Koh or the late David Marshall? -
Then how many present PAP party memebers have the calibres of Tommy Koh and the late David Marshall?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:It's quality, not quantity that matters....
Will we ever get Opposition party members with the calibres of Tommy Koh or the late David Marshall? -
clap clap...Originally posted by MS:No matter what, Many voters do not vote against PAP for the sake of anguish. But to recognise their integrity for Chiam and LTK who spent a big part of their lives to serve the people. Therefore if they are to be won over, money is the worst tactic. They must be won by the hearts.
I still remember hearing that last time UK hospitals tried to recruit local nurses over to work. But none of them left Singapore. To show that the education we have in Singapore is a sucess. Skills can be learnt, but integrity is cultivated.
I got friends telling me that follow the flow, if don't vote PAP will kena marked etc etc. These are groundless remarks. Anyway, our people are more interested in improving their lives than to dulan some politicians or elites.
If there're any elites reading around, they must know that to be an elite, they must shoulder the responsibilities. With great power comes great responsibilities. They are not higher than the people they serve but equal. They are not here to be served but to serve.
The election is over, we should focus on the present government which the majority has choosen and lend them our support. Of course, if the government has done anything wrong, as fellow singaporeans, we must voice out fearlessly and keep an open mind for improvements. There is no perfect government in the world so the government must be open to recognise their mistakes and improve like what Chiam See Tong said 'to find out what's the reason why some people never vote for him and improve himself'. If our present government practices this, our government will be stronger and more bonded with the people. -
which nation is equally small in size, lacking or having none of the natural resources, depending on her people to generate income/GDP as a main source of revenue and having one of the lowest tax paying system in place to begin comparing with?Originally posted by antoh:if you have evaulated your life in Singapore as a Singaporean. most of the time you are either paying taxes or paying loans.
If you have compared to other nations, this should have been better.
and what should have been better if there's no country like singapore to compare with?
instead of comparing, why didn't most of us here thought about working out differences and moving ahead with what is needed in this country and for the best of all people? instead of always saying the POWER OF ONE? and start nonsensical war of words, twisting of words etc? -
David Marshall will always be remembered as the one who had engineered the key notions to the growth of the nation, with the credits stolen... when lightning struck...Originally posted by oxford mushroom:It's quality, not quantity that matters....
Will we ever get Opposition party members with the calibres of Tommy Koh or the late David Marshall?
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5-10? yes, indeed a natural progression to degeneration if all are in the likes of JG.Originally posted by blazon:Hi burgerqueen,
its not that most of the opposition supporters are not in support of pap too.
pap had serve us pretty and reasonably well.
but we need more and stronger oppositions.
personally, i feel 5-10 oppositions parliment is a better balance.
we all must accept that more opposition is a natural progression of a nation.
these 5-10 need to be equal or much higher in calibre than the present LTK n CST in order to survive in Parliament. SL of WP has just been named the NMP in Parliament. let's see how well she can perform and stand on her own.
balance can only come abt when the oppositions are working for a better singapore together with the existing governing party. if they're just there to rock the boat and not row together for the purpose of moving ahead, then seriously, its a no win situation and much less a gd opposition. -
at least PAP has it b4.Originally posted by rpm:Then how many present PAP party memebers have the calibres of Tommy Koh and the late David Marshall? -
what if the boatman is steering in the wrong direction and heading towards a collision course? what should the opposition do? sit back and applause, applause? the very meaning of balance is to offer a different viewpoint so that real debate can come about and the weaknesses of the incumbent's choices can be brought to light. if these weaknesses are deemed too overwhelming, there is great cause for opposition to let the people know ...Originally posted by tiggersgd:balance can only come abt when the oppositions are working for a better singapore together with the existing governing party. if they're just there to rock the boat and not row together for the purpose of moving ahead, then seriously, its a no win situation and much less a gd opposition. -
Originally posted by tiggersgd:
which nation is equally small in size, lacking or having none of the natural resources, depending on her people to generate income/GDP as a main source of revenue and having one of the lowest tax paying system in place to begin comparing with?
and what should have been better if there's no country like singapore to compare with?
finland is about our size in terms of population and they also mostly rely on their people's ingenuity for their success and always remember, amount of tax alone doesn't say how much income we take back home. twice the salary with a 40% tax rate still pays better than half the salary with no tax.
so comparatively, Finland, Hong Kong, Taiwan, even Switzerland are relatively small countries in terms of population without much natural resources and have made good primarily through the hardwork and ingenuity of its people. we are not alone in having done well, so we are not unique to begin with.
instead of comparing, why didn't most of us here thought about working out differences and moving ahead with what is needed in this country and for the best of all people? instead of always saying the POWER OF ONE? and start nonsensical war of words, twisting of words etc?
instead of brandishing us as being nonsensical, twisting words, why don't you take a while to think through what we have said? quite often, our perceptions about reality has been heavily shaped right from young by the indoctrination of the ruling party.
just like many young japanese today grew up thinking Japan is the victim in World War 2, because the govt absolutely would not tell them the wrong doings they have done. those who find out later find it difficult to come to terms with reality, because all their lives they have lived with a completely different reality. -
calibres like Tommy Koh would probably never risk incurring the wrath of the incumbent and destroy his own good career ...Originally posted by oxford mushroom:calibres of Tommy Koh or the late David Marshall? -
but now?Originally posted by tiggersgd:at least PAP has it b4. -
quite wrong actually ... many graduates work for the govt and they tell me because of their bread and butter, they have no choice but to vote for the govt ...Originally posted by burgerqueen:Sorry to disppoint you but I already have a degree. I don't understand y nowadays graduates are so against the PAP. Sad to say the PAP "invested" in the wrong people. -
Originally posted by burgerqueen:
what's there to hope for. a PAP win is a virtual guarantee for the next 50 to 100 years or so. with such unfair practices like GRC, they should continue to win albeit unfairly ...
...because my [b]PAP has won. Though only 66.6% it's still a win. I hope they will win always...[/b] -
if this is what a degree holder is like, i cannot bear to imagine myself attaining a degree, and then become a paranoid pessimistOriginally posted by burgerqueen:Oh no they didn't. I hope when u go to study or work u will get murdered without even knowing why. Where every night when you go to club, you fear more abt going home than enjoying yrself. When you take the MRT, the fear of a bomb exploding is as real as you whining abt the PAP. -
relax lah, she is a minority. I was the one who suffered her curses, but I am not angry, coz I see her as an ignorant person, who, given the above outburst, gives graduates a bad name.Originally posted by coffeeortea:if this is what a degree holder is like, i cannot bear to imagine myself attaining a degree, and then become a paranoid pessimist
And till now, she hasn't dared to reply me. I asked her where her filial piety is, since she said that she is not grateful to her parents for bringing her up, only grateful to the PAP.
PAP, with such supporters, don't need opposition
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Originally posted by snow leopard:
finland is about our size in terms of population and they also mostly rely on their people's ingenuity for their success and always remember, amount of tax alone doesn't say how much income we take back home. twice the salary with a 40% tax rate still pays better than half the salary with no tax.
so comparatively, Finland, Hong Kong, Taiwan, even Switzerland are relatively small countries in terms of population without much natural resources and have made good primarily through the hardwork and ingenuity of its people. we are not alone in having done well, so we are not unique to begin with.above all countries u have stated still have bigger land masses than singapore. fair comparison? or u r still dreaming? population sizes for them will be larger than singapore, if given time for procreation from their own people.
and if u seriously have worked overseas and lived there for a couple of years and contributed to their taxation system, i dun think u will be saying this.
without much natural resources as said by you? try comparing no natural resources at all?
instead of brandishing us as being nonsensical, twisting words, why don't you take a while to think through what we have said? quite often, our perceptions about reality has been heavily shaped right from young by the indoctrination of the ruling party.
take time to think what 'we?' have said? if u think u have not twisted or contributed to nonsensical wordings, why should u have reacted so strongly? are u telling me that u have not received education in singapore with ur "heavily...indoctrination of the ruling party?" thingy.
just like many young japanese today grew up thinking Japan is the victim in World War 2, because the govt absolutely would not tell them the wrong doings they have done. those who find out later find it difficult to come to terms with reality, because all their lives they have lived with a completely different reality
this is like comparing apples with oranges. what do u think PAP has done so wrong to compare PAP with the Japanese govt at large for not disclosing their War crimes? and what do u understand of the Japanese govt's underlying motives of not disclosing it to their younger generations? and if there're more people like JG who didn't submit their minority form and insisted on their faked submission, not once but twice? so u think this is going to help singapore by n large? is this not a no sense? is this not word twisting? comparision beyond the uncomprehensible?
hmm, i wonder...will there ever be a gd opposition. guess not now...with the kind answers i am receiving... -
and has the opposition has it b4? and now?Originally posted by RaTtY81:but now? -
one more thing, she said we who support opposition often nitpick at other people's words. Instead of focusing on the issues, we nitpick on words used by the govt.
In the 1st place, when we elect someone to represent us, obviously, whatever words he or she uses during speeches, etc, IS IMPORTANT. imagine, getting someone up there, who sprouts vulgarities at others. Diplomacy is all about using the right words.
Coming back to her statement, I believe PAP also nitpicks at the opposition parties words. So why din she see this?
Anyway, I may not be that objective a person, but I believe I am more objective than you burgerqueen, and I never go around cursing at others to go to their deaths.
Once again, I say this with heavy hitting words. Your actions are detestable, and you bring down the reputation of whichever university you graduated from. -
You are right!!! PAP had grabed most of the businesses in Singapore. I believe this was part of their strategy in politics to control singaporeans. If you were to be working in gov sectors or directly in GLC or GIC or tomasick.....or indirectly with all the above. Would you vote against PAP?Originally posted by snow leopard:quite wrong actually ... many graduates work for the govt and they tell me because of their bread and butter, they have no choice but to vote for the govt ... -
very often singaporeans take peace for granted. people get killed every sec, min in US and other developed countries. girls get raped for no reason. people get slapped for no reason, gangsters come up to u and point a gun at ur head to demand the unimaginable, and petty robbers rob at gun-point in petrol kiosks and more.Originally posted by coffeeortea:if this is what a degree holder is like, i cannot bear to imagine myself attaining a degree, and then become a paranoid pessimist
so u like singapore to be like this? ya right, dun get a degree...drop out of ur course now...so that at least ur sane enough to not get and being a paranoid pessimistic person.
and can u imagine if ur daughters and mum and female relatives/friends/gf/wife do get the above treatment, be it singapore or otherwise. or it might happen to urself? -
Hi,Originally posted by tiggersgd:5-10? yes, indeed a natural progression to degeneration if all are in the likes of JG.
these 5-10 need to be equal or much higher in calibre than the present LTK n CST in order to survive in Parliament. SL of WP has just been named the NMP in Parliament. let's see how well she can perform and stand on her own.
balance can only come abt when the oppositions are working for a better singapore together with the existing governing party. if they're just there to rock the boat and not row together for the purpose of moving ahead, then seriously, its a no win situation and much less a gd opposition.
I agree that if a policy is good and will benifit singaporeans, we should all surport it. I don't think that the current batch of Oppositions (unlike the old batch) in Parliament will rise issues just for the sake of doing so. But issues like transparency and torny issues like the casino, need a voice and a vote. I believe PAP has tried to get the best people they can, but I also believe that due to the party whip we might not get to see them vote with their heart. I think people like V. Balakrisna (hope I spelled it rite) are good, and I also believe they'll do what they think is best for our country. But give the oppositions credit for becoming a more credible voice. -
hi,Originally posted by lighthand:Hi,
I agree that if a policy is good and will benifit singaporeans, we should all surport it. I don't think that the current batch of Oppositions (unlike the old batch) in Parliament will rise issues just for the sake of doing so. But issues like transparency and torny issues like the casino, need a voice and a vote. I believe PAP has tried to get the best people they can, but I also believe that due to the party whip we might not get to see them vote with their heart. I think people like V. Balakrisna (hope I spelled it rite) are good, and I also believe they'll do what they think is best for our country. But give the oppositions credit for becoming a more credible voice.
first off, oppositions like CST n LTK has come a long way for the residents in PP n HG. and yes, credit goes to them.
yes, if only oppositions' voices in this forum n out speak like u do, they'll gain some of my respect. credible voice in what form? like CSJ? or JG? or the likes of JBJ? so far, credible is not the word to describe oppositions. what will be credible is when they counter-propose gd measures in bringing up the living standards of singapore, counter-measure in terms of finance (LHL), counter-measure the rising costs of medical expenses with appropriate solutions etc.
isn't this what the oppositions should be doing instead?
given CST a lawyer and LTK a businessman, i'm sure they'll have no lack of ideas n countermeasures for certain singaporean issues at heart. with SL in the NMP and a lecturer in a reputable school, it is time to really see what they have for the rest of the singaporeans who voted for them and equally important if not more for those who haven't voted for them to understand and realise what they can be capable of. then i will say, a credible opposition has indeed surfaced and its time to re-think if my vote for them will count in the next election. -
just becoz the singaporeans support opposition, Singapore will become a place where there will be people getting killed every sec, min, gals get raped, people get slapped for no reason, gangsters come up to you... etc.Originally posted by tiggersgd:very often singaporeans take peace for granted. people get killed every sec, min in US and other developed countries. girls get raped for no reason. people get slapped for no reason, gangsters come up to u and point a gun at ur head to demand the unimaginable, and petty robbers rob at gun-point in petrol kiosks and more.
so u like singapore to be like this? ya right, dun get a degree...drop out of ur course now...so that at least ur sane enough to not get and being a paranoid pessimistic person.
and can u imagine if ur daughters and mum and female relatives/friends/gf/wife do get the above treatment, be it singapore or otherwise. or it might happen to urself?
Aren't you people too extreme?
If you guys do not understand what democracy is, change this place to communism. No voice to be heard, everything listen to the govt. Any one who dares to go against them will be whisked away to some unknown place and disappear. So you guys prefer this?
I am arguing to the extreme. But this is precisely what is happening in this post. Just coz we support the opposition means terrorists will enter Singapore and blow things up. I will get murdered coz I support the opposition.
If this is the way to argue your case of supporting PAP, then again I say, PAP rules by FEAR not be respect.