I was moved to tears too...
-
did i even state voting for oppositions resulted in the above mentioned crimes?Originally posted by soul_rage:just becoz the singaporeans support opposition, Singapore will become a place where there will be people getting killed every sec, min, gals get raped, people get slapped for no reason, gangsters come up to you... etc.
Aren't you people too extreme?
If you guys do not understand what democracy is, change this place to communism. No voice to be heard, everything listen to the govt. Any one who dares to go against them will be whisked away to some unknown place and disappear. So you guys prefer this?
I am arguing to the extreme. But this is precisely what is happening in this post. Just coz we support the opposition means terrorists will enter Singapore and blow things up. I will get murdered coz I support the opposition.
If this is the way to argue your case of supporting PAP, then again I say, PAP rules by FEAR not be respect.
aren't u way too extreme?
i do understand democracy...do u? in the first place, do u know WP has prior dealings with communism or rather communistic people? and how much do u understand of communism?
if ur arguing to the extreme, then u have proved my point in my reply above being "too extreme".
and seriously, ur FEAR voting saying should be thrashed out in ur litter bins. i FEAR more of voting for the likes of CSJ, JBJ, JG etc than in my FEAR of ur saying of PAP's FEAR. -
Workers Party had prior dealings with Communism ?Originally posted by tiggersgd:
which nation is equally small in size, lacking or having none of the natural resources, depending on her people to generate income/GDP as a main source of revenue and having one of the lowest tax paying system in place to begin comparing with? [/quote]
How about comparing with the likes of Hong Kong, which is about as close as it gets to Singapore - before and after its unification with its Motherland ?
It would have been nice and comforting if PM LHL continued from his Sunday morning speech, televised over CNA, in which he had stated in his speech that - "neither the PAP nor the government nor the opposition has all the solutions and answers to problems. But we have enormous talents in Singaporeans. And each has something important to contribute. We should tap and engage this for the good of Singapore."
instead of comparing, why didn't most of us here thought about working out differences and moving ahead with what is needed in this country and for the best of all people? instead of always saying the POWER OF ONE? and start nonsensical war of words, twisting of words etc?
This is a far cry from MM LKY's insistence and continued harping by SM GCT that Singapore has a dearth of talented people.
Unfortunately, PM LKY continued to harp on having a strong mandate - when the percentage of his own votes had dropped despite the prestige of his position as a Leader of the Ruling Party, the Leader of Singapore and leading his GRC Team; and comparing the increase in percentage of ballots received by the corresponding Leaders of the WP and SDA.
It is totally DIS-INGENIOUS in his continued justification of his strong mandate by comparing with - "In other countries, this would be landslide victory. In Singapore, because the government got 66.6 percent nationwide -- well, it is only 55 percent (in Aljunied) but it is quite decisive. It's not like 200 votes or down to counting chads. Because while the American presidency was down to counting a few hundred voters in Florida, here we have out of 160,000, 10 percent is 16,000 -- that's about the number -- I think it's quite decisive."
This argument is dis-ingenious for the simple fact that DESPITE ALL THE ODDS - with all broadcast and print media under the control of the Ruling Party, and with the political playing field being set up as unlevel as it was during the recent 2006 Elections - the Opposition was able and succeeded to increase votes, took away large chunks of votes from the incumbent party, and struck the imagination of Singaporeans.
Can this Election be a strong mandate with 37 other Election Wards being UN-CONTESTED and merely WALK-OVERS for the incumbent Parties ?Should we allow 'Walk-over' Constituencies to exist ?
Why the persistence with this line of crowing ?
Are we to expect them to push through even more draconian legislations that impinge on the Lives and Rights of Singaporeans ?
Does a SELF-PROCLAIMED strong mandate allow them a FREE HAND to do as they please in Parliament ?Originally posted by tiggersgd:
....... in the first place, do u know WP has prior dealings with communism or rather communistic people? and how much do u understand of communism?
Where on earth did you dig this part from Singapore's History ?
If one is to look back at Singapore's political landscape, it was LKY who betted his political future with known Communist Idealists when the PAP was first set up.
If one is to deride CSJ for usurping the chair of SDP from CST - without even knowing the facts of the situation behind the SDP incident - then should one deride LKY for ursurping the leadership of the country from one whom he had introduced to David Marshall as the Future Prime Minister of Singapore ?
For information concerning LKY's introduction of the Future Prime Minister of Singapore to David Marshall, you may wish to re-visit the thread Comet in Our Sky ?
[quote]
and seriously, ur FEAR voting saying should be thrashed out in ur litter bins. i FEAR more of voting for the likes of CSJ, JBJ, JG etc than in my FEAR of ur saying of PAP's FEAR. We should not FEAR anyone or any political party, but we should FEAR the fact that we are surrendering our Singaporean sovereignty to the POWER OF ONE, allowing them to pass legislations that place Singaporean in adverse positions, while advancing their own cause and benefits without further reference to Singaporeans who had placed them in Power.
If Switzerland had been our model, why did we not follow Swiss manner of National REFERENDUM on important issues that affect the Swiss Agenda ?
The Swiss Federal Government had diligently and conscientiously referred important national issues to the Swiss Citizens for their approval instead of taking it upon themselves to decide for the nation - on the basis of taking it upon themselves as KNOWING WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY.
Do our Leaders seriously know what is best for Singaporeans ?
The Family Planning of the 1960s is now acknowledged as a disastrous decision by MM LKY, and has resulted in a shrinking population, birth rate that do not replace current numbers, a large ageing population that cannot depend on the Young, Legislations having to be passed to force the Young to look after the Aged.
Do we need to FEAR individuals, or should we FEAR MORE towards those whom we have elected into Office but now take it upon themselves as having the MANDATE to do as they please ?
Is this the reason for pushing the false reality of a 'strong mandate' ? -
Atobe, u...nvm
anyway, ur almost always ...nvm...
thanks for ur education of the POWER OF ONE. i shall endeavour to remember ur 'wise' sayings, if i can. -
singapore politics r not xciting as taiwan .
I am a singaporean myself and I find the GRC system unfair .
It's easier for SMC to be captured by opposition than GRC .
GRC is a PAP stronghold . -
not you, but the original poster.
Just coz I support the opposition and think I am grateful to my parents and not to the govt doesn't warrant a curse to the death from her.
As for your post, what I am telling you is that you have missed the point. You missed what the original poster was trying to say. He is saying that if graduates behave like that, it is way too embarassing.
Which is what I am getting at.
So my post is not targetted at you, but back to the original attitude of "if you vote for opposition, terrorist will attack Singapore, etc". Who ever knows what will happen? Perhaps the opposition can do better?
Much I understand of communism. Chinese history is something I am very interested of, and yes, I know WP had prior dealings with communism. But anyway, that's besides the point.
I summarize again.
1. Just coz we here support the opposition doesn't mean we are against the govt.
2. If opposition gets more seats in parliament, doesn't equal increased risk of terrorism or lapses in security of Singapore. That is already out of the point argument.Originally posted by tiggersgd:did i even state voting for oppositions resulted in the above mentioned crimes?
aren't u way too extreme?
i do understand democracy...do u? in the first place, do u know WP has prior dealings with communism or rather communistic people? and how much do u understand of communism?
if ur arguing to the extreme, then u have proved my point in my reply above being "too extreme".
and seriously, ur FEAR voting saying should be thrashed out in ur litter bins. i FEAR more of voting for the likes of CSJ, JBJ, JG etc than in my FEAR of ur saying of PAP's FEAR. -
How do you expect quality when the playing field is unfair???Originally posted by oxford mushroom:It's quality, not quantity that matters....
Will we ever get Opposition party members with the calibres of Tommy Koh or the late David Marshall?
Look at past prominent oppositions.
I say, dun blame the oppositions only,
pxp had it such that any quality oppositions will be squashed.
How they do that, you may want to question.
James Gomez must be someone special, otherwise, why do you think
they put so much weight on him??
I say, dun blame it on the oppositions only. -
Originally posted by tiggersgd:
above all countries u have stated still have bigger land masses than singapore. fair comparison? or u r still dreaming? population sizes for them will be larger than singapore, if given time for procreation from their own people.
fair enough. the size of their economies are so much larger than their land masses, land masses account for very little of what they achieved today. if going by your logic, Russia should be three times more prosperous than USA ... given time for procreation.
so who's dreaming heh?
and if u seriously have worked overseas and lived there for a couple of years and contributed to their taxation system, i dun think u will be saying this.
a lot of people in this forum are overseas and not intending to come back. by and large do you think they are less well off than they were here?
without much natural resources as said by you? try comparing no natural resources at all?
so what if taiwan has a couple of water melons more? how much do these account for their GDP?
take time to think what 'we?' have said? if u think u have not twisted or contributed to nonsensical wordings, why should u have reacted so strongly? are u telling me that u have not received education in singapore with ur "heavily...indoctrination of the ruling party?" thingy.
reacted strongly? in what ways? or are you reacting strongly instead? just presenting simple facts and truths but if you interprete it with twisted mentality then it becomes nonsense. well, i always think about what we're being told and not to take them at face value.
this is like comparing apples with oranges. what do u think PAP has done so wrong to compare PAP with the Japanese govt at large for not disclosing their War crimes? and what do u understand of the Japanese govt's underlying motives of not disclosing it to their younger generations? and if there're more people like JG who didn't submit their minority form and insisted on their faked submission, not once but twice? so u think this is going to help singapore by n large? is this not a no sense? is this not word twisting? comparision beyond the uncomprehensible?
i think the comparison is apt enough. both are self-deluding and trying to delude its people as well. maybe a big apple and a small apple. come on, even the taxi driver thinks that the JG issue is nonsense and that the PAP is being overly barbaric. i think some degree of gentleman behaviour from the PAP would indeed help singapore in the long run. what exactly is being twisted anyway?
hmm, i wonder...will there ever be a gd opposition. guess not now...with the kind answers i am receiving...
well, with the kind of thinking you have, singapore will always be a virtual slave country ... no wonder we're being ridiculed by Li Ao for being stupid ... -
very quickly let me just reply to you.Originally posted by snow leopard:
on Russia - their people are richer in a way than their American counterparts as they trade n deal in cash almost all the time. although they have credit card system in place but they still believe in cold hard cash. you don't know? why am i not surprised?
on land masses - it is ultra important. why do u think singapore reclaim most of the land in the east, north-east and some parts of the west and also islands outside of mainland singapore?
dreaming? don't let me stop ur sweet dreams then. dream on...
my logic is that you can't compare population sizes to land mass sizes. we're limited in land mass and so how much can we squeeze in singapore? take a look at jakarta...they're overcrowding there and yet more people are flooding into that city. if you don't know my logic behind, just ask. don't have to assume and make more mistakes. didn't you learn this in school?
if alot of people in this forum is from overseas, then are you the representatives or the president of this people to speak up for them? duh...speak for yourself.
for taiwan to have more melons, well, all i can say is that they can eat more, produce more and export more? they're already talking about exporting to mainland china with their fruits...only. is this not an addition to their GDP? even if its minimal?
your past post states your kind of reaction. maybe you want to read again? if you think i have reacted strongly then there's nothing i can say. because my replies to you is in no way unfair...they're truth and facts. a matter of whether you can accept it or otherwise. face value or otherwise, let me repeat, if you can't take it with facts and truth then what's it called? face value? yeah, right. and may i ask what facts and truths you have presented? i have stated and countered most of your so-call facts and truth with real life experiences. you? melons in taiwan? hahaha...
regarding JG's case, if the taxi driver tells you he doesn't believe and thinks its over-rated and you take it...is that called face value? hmmm...facts and footage has been shown on TV. he is caught red-handed and what more is there to say? coming from someone who says he believes in facts and truths and thought about what is being told...seriously, i am having other views of you and especially your integrity.
"virtual slave in singapore?" well, put it this way, i am free to enter and leave singapore as i wish. am i a slave to the country? i don't think so.
and with your kind of thinking, no wonder we can be a "slave" country.
as for Li Ao's sayings...you are still subscribing to that? hahaha. i don't and never will. stupid is he who thinks he is and being told he is. face value indeed.
as a man thinks (in his heart and mind), so is he (in that state of heart and mind).
wakey wakey... -
let me help you on your correction (just one)Originally posted by blazon:How do you expect quality when the playing field is unfair???
Look at past prominent oppositions.
I say, dun blame the oppositions only,
pxp had it such that any quality oppositions will be squashed.
How they do that, you may want to question.
James Gomez must be someone special, otherwise, why do you think
they put so much weight on him??
I say, dun blame it on the oppositions only.
its not pxp but PAP. get it? there isn't a party called pxp unless you have decided to form one by that name. -
but u did replied to my post. so am i suppose to read as you replying to burgerqueen? i don't assume that but as long as the jargon in forums, its the replying of the post to the person that posted that matters.
anyway, if its to burgerqueen, pls state the nick next time to avoid misunderstandings? thanks for your clarification.
i have no comments on how graduates need to carry themselves, much less an assoc. professor.
as for having more oppositions in parliament, they need to show to the people that they know what they're going for. alot of times, that just don't happen. take punggol/pasir ris for example. they're (SDA) bascially non-existent. handing out leaflets at mrt is the best that i can see them at.
how about bukit panjang? a SMC but really how many have seen the opposition candidate there? its only when election comes, the oppositions started to surface. i, too for one would like to know them more. what are their capabilities/limitations and so on. it is not only to fight for transparency but other issues that is the bread n butter issues.
do you really think the ordinary person will care so much of politics?
i do not want to go back to the times of turmoil and unrest in a country simply bcos of some oppositions. for me, i want a gd opposition that can contribute to the society and nation. this is no longer about PAP or any party for that matter. it is the party that can bring this stability and progress as a nation that matters.Originally posted by soul_rage:not you, but the original poster.
Just coz I support the opposition and think I am grateful to my parents and not to the govt doesn't warrant a curse to the death from her.
As for your post, what I am telling you is that you have missed the point. You missed what the original poster was trying to say. He is saying that if graduates behave like that, it is way too embarassing.
Which is what I am getting at.
So my post is not targetted at you, but back to the original attitude of "if you vote for opposition, terrorist will attack Singapore, etc". Who ever knows what will happen? Perhaps the opposition can do better?
Much I understand of communism. Chinese history is something I am very interested of, and yes, I know WP had prior dealings with communism. But anyway, that's besides the point.
I summarize again.
1. Just coz we here support the opposition doesn't mean we are against the govt.
2. If opposition gets more seats in parliament, doesn't equal increased risk of terrorism or lapses in security of Singapore. That is already out of the point argument. -
Originally posted by tiggersgd:let me help you on your correction (just one)
its not pxp but PAP. get it? there isn't a party called pxp unless you have decided to form one by that name.
at least you acknowledge that it was PAP that squashed quality oppositions. -
u read too much. and no to clarify to you as well...i didn't type that as is said by you above.Originally posted by sgdiehard: at least you acknowledge that it was PAP that squashed quality oppositions.
i merely corrected the other person's party spelling error. -
Originally posted by tiggersgd:
on Russia - their people are richer in a way than their American counterparts as they trade n deal in cash almost all the time. although they have credit card system in place but they still believe in cold hard cash. you don't know? why am i not surprised?
you must be joking, cash or otherwise, how much can the average Russian afford compared to his American counterpart? apart from the rich oil barons, most Russians, especially those living outside of Moscow are poor peasants. the per capita GDP of Russians is merely a quarter those of the Americans. surely you know that?
on land masses - it is ultra important. why do u think singapore reclaim most of the land in the east, north-east and some parts of the west and also islands outside of mainland singapore?
depends on your purpose. it is important only when you don't have enough of it and that you are not content with what you already have ...
dreaming? don't let me stop ur sweet dreams then. dream on...
strange isn't it? talking to you in my dreams? are we in the same dream?
my logic is that you can't compare population sizes to land mass sizes.
i quote what you wrote earlier:
"above all countries u have stated still have bigger land masses than singapore. ... population sizes for them will be larger than singapore, if given time for procreation from their own people."
so you are indeed comparing population sizes to land masses.
we're limited in land mass and so how much can we squeeze in singapore? take a look at jakarta...they're overcrowding there and yet more people are flooding into that city. if you don't know my logic behind, just ask. don't have to assume and make more mistakes. didn't you learn this in school?
why in the first place would we have the desire to squeeze so many people in our small island? as it is, it is already quite densely populated. indonesians are not only flocking to jarkarta. they are finding ways and means to get to singapore, malaysia, japan ... to find a better living. the flow of people from countryside to the cities happens everywhere where there is poverty, like China.
if alot of people in this forum is from overseas, then are you the representatives or the president of this people to speak up for them? duh...speak for yourself.
i may not be their president, that does not mean i cannot refer to their comments. speaking for myself doesn't mean i have to restrict to my own experiences.
for taiwan to have more melons, well, all i can say is that they can eat more, produce more and export more? they're already talking about exporting to mainland china with their fruits...only. is this not an addition to their GDP? even if its minimal?
"even if its minimal" - that's the thing, it is merely minimal and if taiwanese were to have to depend on their melons for a living they would not have become the rich nation they are today.
your past post states your kind of reaction. maybe you want to read again? if you think i have reacted strongly then there's nothing i can say. because my replies to you is in no way unfair...they're truth and facts. a matter of whether you can accept it or otherwise. face value or otherwise, let me repeat, if you can't take it with facts and truth then what's it called? face value? yeah, right. and may i ask what facts and truths you have presented? i have stated and countered most of your so-call facts and truth with real life experiences. you? melons in taiwan? hahaha...
if you refer back to my history, you would realise that i have had long debates with many people. i broadly categorise them into two types. one type are the real gentlemen, who acknowledge a good rebuttal when they see one. the other type is the sore loser type who resorts to name calling or silly taunts like "are you dreaming?". so reacting strongly really is a mirror on yourself. for you can't instigate a fight without desiring to fight can you?
despite being based on truths and facts, the logic that you're trying to support with these truths and facts are a little bit weak and that was what i was trying to point out. you have presented facts like taiwan is bigger than singapore, but it doesn't explain why our per capita GDPs are pretty similar. i have no problems with you presenting facts, but if the facts don't support your argument, i don't see why i can't point them out to you. the "hahaha" again points to the latter category of people i was referring to ...
regarding JG's case, if the taxi driver tells you he doesn't believe and thinks its over-rated and you take it...is that called face value? hmmm...facts and footage has been shown on TV. he is caught red-handed and what more is there to say?
yes you have presented facts, but where is the interpretation of those facts? PM Lee mentioned during his election that he is out to "fix" the opposition. captured on TV as well. fact as well. what do we make of it? he is a hooligan? his primary concern is to "fix" his opponents? is the JG case a good example of his "fixing" the opposition?
the facts are:
1) he demanded his document from the elections department
2) he says if his document is not found, they are going to be in trouble
3) he was talking to three persons
1) there is nothing wrong with (1) in and of itself. he thought he submitted his form. he asked for it. they don't have it. oops, he made a mistake. why insist he is doing it deliberately when he has already said he forgot? how do you prove that he knew he still had the document with him at the time when he asked for it? if you can't, you cannot make the case that he deliberately tried to fool the elections department and in doing so, tried to smear the latter.
2) again this in and of itself is a general statement. it is indeed true that if the elections department did lose his document, they are going to have some explanation to make. now can we therefore infer that this is a threat? was his tone of voice loud? was he very angwee? did he shout? who is to say he said it as a threat and not as it is? PM Lee said he had to "fix" his opponents. was that a threat? so if i have the mandate from heaven i can threaten in whatever i like and be given the benefit of doubt? if i don't have the mandate from heaven, that benefit of doubt is taken away from me? if i have the mandate from heaven, even if i uttered words that might be construed to be threatening, a simple sorry is enough to clear me of any doubts. but if i don't have the mandate from heaven, sorry no cure?
3) he was speaking to three persons. he could be referring to these three persons as being in trouble. on what basis do we extrapolate that conversation to the whole elections department and on what basis do we extrapolate to the entire election process? takes stretching imagination a little too far for common sense isn't it?
coming from someone who says he believes in facts and truths and thought about what is being told...seriously, i am having other views of you and especially your integrity.
for someone who interprets facts skewedly, you have no right to comment about integrity.
"virtual slave in singapore?" well, put it this way, i am free to enter and leave singapore as i wish. am i a slave to the country? i don't think so.
i am born here, this is my country, i have a vested interest here. there are certain freedoms that i deserve not only as a citizen but as someone borne and bred here. you take that away from me, or make it difficult for me to pursue what i want, then you are subjecting me to slavery in that sense.
and with your kind of thinking, no wonder we can be a "slave" country.
the worst kind of slave is one who doesn't know he is one ...
as for Li Ao's sayings...you are still subscribing to that? hahaha. i don't and never will. stupid is he who thinks he is and being told he is. face value indeed.
he has yet to clarify what he meant exactly, but i have a feeling he is referring to people like you.
as a man thinks (in his heart and mind), so is he (in that state of heart and mind).
so too as a man speaks ... -
your comments are fair enough.
I do wish to see credible opposition in parliament, not jokers like CSJ. However, I guess you have to also remember that given the way PAP snuffs out opposition, it is real difficult for an opposition party member to make much headways.
Coupled with a biased press, limited resources, etc, their job is made much tougher.
What I can't tolerate is that PAP seems to think PAP = govt. Therefore, they can dangle the govt's money during elections and tempt people to vote for them.
In the first place, PAP is NOT the govt. I look upon such dangling of govt's money as abuse of the people's money.
The other thing is, our govt has outsourced transport, education (moving towards that), healthcare, etc. So what else are they doing? Where is our money going to? There is limited transparency to where I Can see our expenditure is.
I don't want such a govt. Remember the NKF saga, if the entire govt is controlled by one party, sooner or later, the corruption will spread. What I wish for is for someone outside the family (PAP), such as in corporations where it is a rule you must hire external auditors to audit your accounts.
This is then truly a check on the govt, not silly SM Goh's idea of asking internal MPs to check themselves (that CANNOT work)
Give the opposition a chance. People like Low Thia Kiang and Sylvia are impressive. I hope she goes into parliament TRULY in the next electionOriginally posted by tiggersgd:but u did replied to my post. so am i suppose to read as you replying to burgerqueen? i don't assume that but as long as the jargon in forums, its the replying of the post to the person that posted that matters.
anyway, if its to burgerqueen, pls state the nick next time to avoid misunderstandings? thanks for your clarification.
i have no comments on how graduates need to carry themselves, much less an assoc. professor.
as for having more oppositions in parliament, they need to show to the people that they know what they're going for. alot of times, that just don't happen. take punggol/pasir ris for example. they're (SDA) bascially non-existent. handing out leaflets at mrt is the best that i can see them at.
how about bukit panjang? a SMC but really how many have seen the opposition candidate there? its only when election comes, the oppositions started to surface. i, too for one would like to know them more. what are their capabilities/limitations and so on. it is not only to fight for transparency but other issues that is the bread n butter issues.
do you really think the ordinary person will care so much of politics?
i do not want to go back to the times of turmoil and unrest in a country simply bcos of some oppositions. for me, i want a gd opposition that can contribute to the society and nation. this is no longer about PAP or any party for that matter. it is the party that can bring this stability and progress as a nation that matters.