James Gomez arrested !!!!
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My belief is that he should be let away scot free if he never made any threats.Originally posted by headset:The fact remains that no threaths were made by the accused. From my point of view, it was an underlining of the severity of not having his doccument.
The Law, if it were to be enforced should be enforced on all planes, as long as it is breached. THe weight of an issue is of no consequence to the enforcement of the rule of law. The weight of an isuue should only bear wight on the judgement/sentence passed.
To say that one should prosecute Gomez for this and let slide the numerous accusations and assults that barrage the civil service, is like saying the murder of a begger is of no consequence when compared to the murder of a burocrat.
Correct me if i'm wrong...
But I didn't hear the conversation so I can't count on that. He may or may not have said it, but I'm very sure he apologized over the media.
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All conversations were recorded, then broadcasted on national TV.. im quite sure no threaths were made... but i believe his tone was quite firm.
He should be let off, if appologies meant anything in this country.
Sad to note however, even in the eyes of a blind man, its quite obvious that the ED is not really independent.
No fighting the machine... -
Trust me to say this: it's only part of the video you're watching.Originally posted by headset:All conversations were recorded, then broadcasted on national TV.. im quite sure no threaths were made... but i believe his tone was quite firm.
He should be let off, if appologies meant anything in this country.
Sad to note however, even in the eyes of a blind man, its quite obvious that the ED is not really independent.
No fighting the machine... -
Can sbst275 please answer my previous post before comment more of Gomez? Thanks
In this case, maybe the police should detain G. Yeo and Mah BT. Cuz Yeo said said that with 4 candidates still can contest 5 cand. wards but in fact it is not constitational. Is he trying to mislead the public by lying or is it an honest mistake? Mah said that Edmund Lim can be subcontractor of HDB, but when Lim goes to HDB to request information and be the sub-contractor Mah asked HDB not to give him. So is Mah lying or is it honest mistake?
Can the police detain Mah and Yeo for lying to the nation? For those to accuse JG of crime, please explain Wink -
The video of CCTV does NOT show or prove that Gomez was to delibrately discrediting the ED or to put the pap's reputation at stake!!!!!!....
So what kind of law law we have here...where some people can just on their presumptions or assumptions and putting one into lawsuit???????? What a singapore?????????
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Originally posted by Lowclassman:
Have you seen the CCTV video in its entirety, or the edited version by CNA?
The video of CCTV does [b]NOT show or prove that Gomez was to delibrately discrediting the ED or to put the pap's reputation at stake!!!!!!....
So what kind of law law we have here...where some people can just on their presumptions or assumptions and putting one into lawsuit???????? What a singapore????????? [/b]
Once again we see people who choose to believe the softer side on things, without even thinking what happened outside the video presented by CNA. -
You actually believe that the CCTV footage we saw on TV was edited by CNA to Gomez's advantage ah?Originally posted by EXCO:Have you seen the CCTV video in its entirety, or the edited version by CNA?
Once again we see people who choose to believe the softer side on things, without even thinking what happened outside the video presented by CNA.
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For those of you who haven't heard it yet, mrbrown has made a satire on this issue. You have to listen in to realise how hilarious the situation (as well as the clip) is.
Click me -
''Mr Gomez demanded ELD staff again and warned Mr Ricky Tan of 'consequences''' ELD statement ,ST 29.04.2006,p H5 ,by KRIST BOO.
If I were Mr Ricky Tan, I would sue him for criminal intimidation and defamation, for Gomez has threatened unspecified consequences for Ricky Tan. His physical stance with a pointed finger may also be construed as threatening . He has made a statement, publicized through the media, that suggests Ricky Tan had committed an offence.
It's for the courts to decide if Ricky Tan has a case. -
COMMENT BY WONG KAN SENG ON LOW THIA KHIANGÂ’S REMARKS MADE AT THE WORKERSÂ’ PARTY RALLY on 5 MAY 2006
Mr Low Thia Khiang was reported to have said at the WorkersÂ’ Party this evening that he had intended all his minority candidates to apply for minority certificates so that his Party can have the option or flexibility to deploy them to any GRC which the WorkersÂ’ Party wants to contest in.
Read and Think and think again.Who tell truths?Whi lied?
This is a new argument and surprising explanation, one that he did not give throughout the whole week when the subject of GomezÂ’s missing minority certificate was reported in the media or in the WorkersÂ’ Party rallies or walkabouts. What Low Thia Khiang and Sylvia Lim did say was that the Party never had any intention to field Gomez in Ang Mo Kio which required an Indian minority certificate, and that the plan has always been to field Gomez in Aljunied which required a Malay minority certificate.
Low Thia KhiangÂ’s comment this evening also does not square with GomezÂ’s conversation when he talked to Inderjit Singh in the presence of Thiayagarajah. Gomez himself also did not use this new argument just put out by Low Thia Khiang. What Gomez did say was that he did not file his minority certificate.
So, if GomezÂ’s own explanation can be believed, then Low Thia Khiang must have thought of this new explanation only in the last 24 hours.
Anyway, after the general election, there will be a full public resolution on this matter.
WONG KAN SENG,5 MAY 2006
2.“I submitted this with my colleague; so my colleague( Ms Sylvia Lim )was with me all the time. I’ve checked with her and she confirmed also that the form was submitted and was accepted.”--Mr Gomez said in the telephone conversation with ELD on 26 April 2006.
This was widely reported in STimes.Ms Lim has never denied this.What
does it imply? -
But gomez didnt say exactly what the consequences are, and there many who try to intrepret too hard on the consequences.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:If I were Mr Ricky Tan, I would sue him for criminal intimidation and defamation, for Gomez has threatened unspecified consequences for Ricky Tan. His physical stance with a pointed finger may also be construed as threatening . He has made a statement, publicized through the media, that suggests Ricky Tan had committed an offence.
It's for the courts to decide if Ricky Tan has a case.
I think gomez has a strong case... -
Originally posted by Lowclassman:
Its true what u are saying, we know this.
The video of CCTV does [b]NOT show or prove that Gomez was to delibrately discrediting the ED or to put the pap's reputation at stake!!!!!!....
So what kind of law law we have here...where some people can just on their presumptions or assumptions and putting one into lawsuit???????? What a singapore????????? [/b]
However as we all also know, the Judicial system in singapore is seldom in favour of the plaintiff. Whats more, with no Jury in our courts, is public oppinion of any consequence in our legal system? im afraid not.
In my heart, i hope Gomez is cleared, both for the sake of singapore and the sake of the PAP's public oppinion, which is on the downslide.
In my mind, i know, Gomez's Goose is cooked. Poor dude... he will live on in our memories. -
Actually, lying to a civil servant is good enough to put you in jail
Actually, out of curiosity, where is this in the penal code or in any of the other statutes
Teachers are civil servants and woe betide the next little kid who comes with an excuse on homework.
Then there are "lies, damned lies and statistics"
Who draws the line? -
Originally posted by ubuntu:
Maybe he was thinking of this in Sect 182:
[b]
Actually, out of curiosity, where is this in the penal code or in any of the other statutes
Teachers are civil servants and woe betide the next little kid who comes with an excuse on homework.
Then there are "lies, damned lies and statistics"
Who draws the line?
[/b]
Whoever gives to any public servant any information orally or in writing which he knows or believes to be false, intending thereby to cause, or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby cause, such public servant to use the lawful power of such public servant to the injury or annoyance of any person, or to do or omit anything which such public servant ought not to do or omit if the true state of facts respecting which such information is given were known by him, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 6 months, or with fine which may extend to $1,000, or with both.
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/ -
If Gomez is arrested, it will sit poorly with the "millenial" generation who are used to conflicting opinions, and who get to vote in a few years. One can not use "builder" brute force this way. Even the Russians use PR agencies these days.Originally posted by headset:Its true what u are saying, we know this.
However as we all also know, the Judicial system in singapore is seldom in favour of the plaintiff. Whats more, with no Jury in our courts, is public oppinion of any consequence in our legal system? im afraid not.
In my heart, i hope Gomez is cleared, both for the sake of singapore and the sake of the PAP's public oppinion, which is on the downslide.
In my mind, i know, Gomez's Goose is cooked. Poor dude... he will live on in our memories.
This may well be a watershed event in terms of public opinion with regards to the PAP, with this as an identifiable hinging point were one say to write some book of political history in 20 years.
It would be sad to see this happen and I hope that that some of the younger leaders in the PAP will have the courage to articulate their personal opinions, since one can probably guess whose fingerprints are on this event. -
One day the PAP will learn that such a political culture is a stain on our nation, and will be cleansed off.Originally posted by ubuntu:If Gomez is arrested, it will sit poorly with the "millenial" generation who are used to conflicting opinions, and who get to vote in a few years. One can not use "builder" brute force this way. Even the Russians use PR agencies these days.
This may well be a watershed event in terms of public opinion with regards to the PAP, with this as an identifiable hinging point were one say to write some book of political history in 20 years.
It would be sad to see this happen and I hope that that some of the younger leaders in the PAP will have the courage to articulate their personal opinions, since one can probably guess whose fingerprints are on this event. -
James Gomez always got distracted
Is Mr Gomez saying that he intended to file the form on 24 April, but mistakenly omitted to do so because there was “too much distraction”?
pl read the facts of Gomez conducts and speech from 24 April to now.
And if this is his explanation for not submitting the form on 24 Apr 06, we still are none the wiser about Mr GomezÂ’s behaviour two days later, which he apologised for without offering any explanation.
Is he saying that on 26 April, he honestly believed that he had submitted the form on 24 April and that he continued to have the intention of obtaining the certificate?
Was he still distracted on 26 April, when he found the time to go to the ELD to ask for his minority certificate, and there not only demanded that the ELD staff check again but also warned the ELD officer of “consequences”?
When the ELD called him back to clarify what actually happened, was Mr Gomez still distracted, and still intending to obtain the certificate, and therefore still had not realised that he had not filed it?
Ms Sylvia Lim too should give her account of this episode, and not remain silent. She too made a speech at Nee Soon East last night, but avoided this subject completely.
Then draw the conclusions.Dunt pin point on one or two
factors.
PAP have accused him of set up ELD and Spore government.
LKY said he is a liar and dishonest.
I see his conducts caused more harm than any opposition
before.No opposition has set up to darken Spore election systems.
U and they are free to say opions.But it is not forgivable if
u purposely to set up the poor staff of ELD.
If this implied accusation is not proved wrong,what is
differences btw Spore and other banana countries?
Read all sources of info and share here and quick.
If he is charged,then we are not to discuss here.
U think LKY ,for his status,pin point in Gomez in his only appearance
on rally jus for fun?LKY tot this is a damn serious issue.
Even George Yeo hinted if they lost some votes,so be it.
Opposaition ,Dunt hit below the belt.
Dunt get foreign countries involved in domestic affairs.
3.Media Release: Stop harassing James Gomez
8 May 06
SDP is so busy body.WP dunt say a word for Gomez questioning,
SDP will rally behind him. -
Eh...wake up your idea...wake up wake up.....Originally posted by oxford mushroom:If I were Mr Ricky Tan, I would sue him for criminal intimidation and defamation, for Gomez has threatened unspecified consequences for Ricky Tan. His physical stance with a pointed finger may also be construed as threatening . He has made a statement, publicized through the media, that suggests Ricky Tan had committed an offence.
It's for the courts to decide if Ricky Tan has a case.
The matter was publicized thru the media by PAP, now workers party...
If finger wagging is also considered criminal intimination, then everyday dunno how many people are commiting the offence. Especially teachers... -
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:
Hmm... I looked it up and its similar with the same numbered clause in the Indian penal code and the Malaysian penal code, so probably originates from the UK. One can't quite see how JG's action can be prosecuted under common or case law without a major twist of interpretation
Maybe he was thinking of this in Sect 182:
Whoever gives to any public servant any information orally or in writing which he knows or believes to be false, intending thereby to cause, or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby cause, such public servant to use the lawful power of such public servant to the injury or annoyance of any person, [b]or to do or omit anything which such public servant ought not to do or omit if the true state of facts respecting which such information is given were known by him, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 6 months, or with fine which may extend to $1,000, or with both.
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/
[/b] -
Yah..........Originally posted by ubuntu:It would be sad to see this happen and I hope that that some of the younger leaders in the PAP will have the courage to articulate their personal opinions, since one can probably guess whose fingerprints are on this event.
They always say no need opposition because the PAP MPs are also not scare to bring up issues even if it's out of line with party stance right? They say that the new PAP MPs are not parrots and ostrichs right?
Let's see which PAP MP will actually stand out and say "Stop this petty shit smearing game. We are stinking ourselves up. Let's do the important things."
We see ok? We see.........
......any PAP MP will voice out i chop of my gu gu jiao ah!! -
All the gu gu jiao who insist on saying "a lie is a lie no matter he intentionally or not"Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Maybe he was thinking of this in Sect 182:
Whoever gives to any public servant any information orally or in writing which he knows or believes to be false, intending thereby to cause, or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby cause, such public servant to use the lawful power of such public servant to the injury or annoyance of any person, or to do or omit anything which such public servant ought not to do or omit if the true state of facts respecting which such information is given were known by him, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 6 months, or with fine which may extend to $1,000, or with both.
http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/
A lie can ONLY be a lie if it's intentional. Or else it's just wrong information, not a lie.
As quoted by the mushroom guy, even for the "misleading civil servant" thing, INTENTION must be proven, "which he knows or believes to be false".
If he doesn't know that he really didn't submit, then this wouldn't hold water at all.
I would LOVE to see how PAP try to prove the intent.
"Our party mind reader, Elder Lee, has read his mind and determined that he KNEW he didn't submit. Because he is the only person to have this ability, his words are proof!" -
IF there was no CCTV footage, who would have known how Gomez could have sabotaged the entire ELD or even the entire civil service?
HE could easily say that the management of the forms was not done appropriately and that the entire system was flawed. This could put the entire electoral process in jeopardy, considering that the ELD was sloppy in their management.
This chain of events might lead to the UN having to probe because of the credibility of the electoral process being flawed and the democracy undermined.
If Gomez is not a trouble maker, then WHO is?
PS: He did it twice. -
In other unrelated news, having the UN monitor the lawsuit handling by the courts might be a good thing.Originally posted by gr2012:IF there was no CCTV footage, who would have known how Gomez could have sabotaged the entire ELD or even the entire civil service?
HE could easily say that the management of the forms was not done appropriately and that the entire system was flawed. This could put the entire electoral process in jeopardy, considering that the ELD was sloppy in their management.
This chain of events might lead to the UN having to probe because of the credibility of the electoral process being flawed and the democracy undermined.
If Gomez is not a trouble maker, then WHO is?
PS: He did it twice. -
i agree with you. We need international coverage on this issue. the depravation of FREE SPEECH. we need the world to see what type of govt we have. they have to see what is happening.... it aint nice in here .Originally posted by LazerLordz:In other unrelated news, having the UN monitor the lawsuit handling by the courts might be a good thing. -
Exactly...if you want to steal food, you must remember to wipe your face. You want to make unwarranted allegations, check if there is CCTV around..Originally posted by gr2012:IF there was no CCTV footage, who would have known how Gomez could have sabotaged the entire ELD or even the entire civil service?
HE could easily say that the management of the forms was not done appropriately and that the entire system was flawed. This could put the entire electoral process in jeopardy, considering that the ELD was sloppy in their management.
This chain of events might lead to the UN having to probe because of the credibility of the electoral process being flawed and the democracy undermined.
If Gomez is not a trouble maker, then WHO is?
PS: He did it twice.