Ladies & Gentlemen: A Great Letter to Straits Times
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what the heck, ignorant people are also found in University.For me to find kakis who can understand the issues we face , is damn rare.Originally posted by inextremo:i'm of the same age as you. its strange how many of my sec school friends from the mainstream schools are like yours. they are more worried about the pimple of their faces, or what to wear tomorrow than national issues. However, most students in my present class now are always questioning the system. i think the way the school teaches us also plays apart in being more aware about the political scene, and not just accepting what is provided. -
simple answer, always question what is told to you.Never accept anythin at face value, and cultivate a personal self that is willing to ask and query.Originally posted by cout << user:dont u think social ttalks 2 much on wad the garmen PAP has done housing, health care blah blah. ! that is the 'political scene' we r being taught.
and one more thing, Party IS NOT Singapore.
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I can relate to that. When I bring up discussions on political issues and argue against some of the ruling party's policies, my friends almost inevitably end up berating me for being a 'traitor' and for making mountains out of molehills.Originally posted by LazerLordz:what the heck, ignorant people are also found in University.For me to find kakis who can understand the issues we face , is damn rare.
Heck, I've been at the butt of stupid jokes about how I should don a Guy Fawkes mask and call myself 'F'.
This coming from people who proudly proclaim that the only news that concerns them is the sports section. Heck, they chide me for following world events and taking part in political discussions on sgforums.com.
If this is representative of the general mindset of Singapore's populace, then it's hard for me to not despair for Singapore's future. -
Hmm..future? What future?Originally posted by fudgester:I can relate to that. When I bring up discussions on political issues and argue against some of the ruling party's policies, my friends almost inevitably end up berating me for being a 'traitor' and for making mountains out of molehills.
If this is representative of the general mindset of Singapore's populace, then it's hard for me to not despair for Singapore's future. 
I certainly can't and do not wish to imagine my children and grandchildren growing up in a 'future' where they'll know nothing besides being saddled with debts to repay all their adult lives(from education to housing to raising their children) if current and past trends are anything to go by... 
To compound matters, it certainly wouldn't help having more than half the electorate buying whatever propaganda is churned out and when money(yeah, quite literally free money...
) is dished out in an election year, will simply forget(if they're privileged enough to vote that is) their toils, struggles and complaints over the last 5 years and restore the status quo.
As you mentioned in the first paragraph, is it then hardly any surprise then you never cease to see people moaning about everything - from fare hikes to living standards - under the sun when their political apathy has empowered them to the point they can't see the direct link between their political choices and the resulting impact their decisions will have on their lives and that of their loved ones? -
Stay your course, and don't let the apathy suck you in.Call me an idealist, but if there's still one person left who cares, there's still a difference made.Originally posted by fudgester:I can relate to that. When I bring up discussions on political issues and argue against some of the ruling party's policies, my friends almost inevitably end up berating me for being a 'traitor' and for making mountains out of molehills.
Heck, I've been at the butt of stupid jokes about how I should don a Guy Fawkes mask and call myself 'F'.
This coming from people who proudly proclaim that the only news that concerns them is the sports section. Heck, they chide me for following world events and taking part in political discussions on sgforums.com.
If this is representative of the general mindset of Singapore's populace, then it's hard for me to not despair for Singapore's future.
In the end, at least you know you can answer to yourself.
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you know what?
herein is something...
i bet i can ask a random sample of people in singapore, and i'd say that 80% of them won't know who Guy Fawkes is...
and i am also willing to bet, more than half of that 80% will actually be proud of their ignorance...
the implications of this would be staggering if you think about it.. and pretty scaryOriginally posted by fudgester:I can relate to that. When I bring up discussions on political issues and argue against some of the ruling party's policies, my friends almost inevitably end up berating me for being a 'traitor' and for making mountains out of molehills.
Heck, I've been at the butt of stupid jokes about how I should don a Guy Fawkes mask and call myself 'F'.
This coming from people who proudly proclaim that the only news that concerns them is the sports section. Heck, they chide me for following world events and taking part in political discussions on sgforums.com.
If this is representative of the general mindset of Singapore's populace, then it's hard for me to not despair for Singapore's future. -
Which is precisely why I find it hard not to despair.Originally posted by the Bear:you know what?
herein is something...
i bet i can ask a random sample of people in singapore, and i'd say that 80% of them won't know who Guy Fawkes is...
and i am also willing to bet, more than half of that 80% will actually be proud of their ignorance...
the implications of this would be staggering if you think about it.. and pretty scary
How on earth do you deal with people who only care about EPL and the Uefa Cup and not about socio-political issues closer to home? I find it extremely sad that the knowledge which most Singaporeans seem to know is the stuff they have in their textbooks and lecture notes. When I urge my friends to read the news on a daily basis, they laugh it off and say that 'it's a waste of brain space'.
I'll agree with you that most Singaporeans don't know who the heck Guy Fawkes is. And I'm willing to bet that even those who do know who Guy Fawkes is would think that he's just a fictional character on V for Vendetta.
With this in mind, I find it hard to see how on earth we can turn our own situation around. The condition of a people can only change if the people themselves take steps to change it. If the majority are truly ignorant and proud of it, then I can hardly see how change is ever going to happen.
But I guess Lazerlordz has a point when he says that we can all make a difference, no matter how small or trivial it may seem to be. If anything, PAP's weakening mandate in the recent elections does show that Singaporeans may not necessarily be swayed by factors like upgrading or the progress package.
So I will try to be optimistic that things will change, but at the same time, I can't deny my pessimism for the future or my cynicism for supposed changes for the better. -
Guy Fawkes?
Hmm...that should give LHL ideas on how to fix the opposition. Hanged, drawn and quartered....starting with CSJ and Gomez?
Lord Ellenborough used to say to those condemned, "You are drawn on hurdles to the place of execution, where you are to be hanged, but not till you are dead; for, while still living, your body is to be taken down, your bowels torn out and burnt before your face; your head is then cut off, and your body divided into four quarters." Think they also cut off the genitals...
Sorry...a deviation -
Now what if the blasting caps were not dampened(according to one account out of many other different ones)...Originally posted by the Bear:you know what?
herein is something...
i bet i can ask a random sample of people in singapore, and i'd say that 80% of them won't know who Guy Fawkes is...
and i am also willing to bet, more than half of that 80% will actually be proud of their ignorance...
the implications of this would be staggering if you think about it.. and pretty scary Would England today be what she is? Or radically different?
Yeomen still do a ceremonial search of the cellar every opening of Parliament -
I was a cynic once, when I was doing my studies in JI.It stayed with me throughout my NS life, until I ORDed, and began dabbling in photography, which really brought me out of my comfort zone and into the dwellings of the elderly and the destitute.It brought me to schools where students were lucky and more than happy to be out of NA or NT stream, never mind about thinking of the future.
I got myself thinking perhaps my craft could help to enlighten others to the plight of the less fortunate, and yet behind my mind, lay a deep sense of truth, which I reluctantly began to accept when I see that despite any sort of exhortations, no one really cared, and people spend their time or money, on "charity events" because of the prizes on offer.
No one does things for their own sake anymore, it's always about the Other and what the Other can offer.
We seem so modern, progressive and future-minded as a state, but as a society, the fair majority of Singaporeans still live day to day in denial and choose only to exist within their little bubble, and their ignorance is something sadly of their own making.If you cannot stand up to a bus captain abusing his power and berating an old lady, calling her names, I can surely understand why you will simply shut your eyes and choose the easiest path and not bother about any critical thinking.
My optimism died one day in February, when the above happened and my exhortations were the lone voice in a bus, where my fellow passengers continued in their iPod-strung world.
Call me a fool for daring to believe and to possess optimism.It's your own freedom of speech.I may have lost some of it, and surely a little dies everytime I see the blatant ignorance of the youth and fellow peers.But I will not begrudge your choice to be a sheep.After all, it's your choice to be slaughtered after the short but comfortable existence in a fenced up field. -
Originally posted by walesa:
Quoted from someone who dare to call others ''daft ingrates"...
Hmm..future? What future? I certainly can't and do not wish to imagine my children and grandchildren growing up in a 'future' where they'll know nothing besides being saddled with debts to repay all their adult lives(from education to housing to raising their children) if current and past trends are anything to go by...
To compound matters, it certainly wouldn't help having more than half the electorate buying whatever propaganda is churned out and when money(yeah, quite literally free money... ) is dished out in an election year, will simply forget(if they're [b]privileged enough to vote that is) their toils, struggles and complaints over the last 5 years and restore the status quo.
As you mentioned in the first paragraph, is it then hardly any surprise then you never cease to see people moaning about everything - from fare hikes to living standards - under the sun when their political apathy has empowered them to the point they can't see the direct link between their political choices and the resulting impact their decisions will have on their lives and that of their loved ones? [/b]
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Originally posted by alien2:
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=189789&page=1
Quoted from [b]someone who dare to call others ''daft ingrates"... [/b]
another of the copy-cat donkeys where originality is seldom found..he/she just learning some big loaded words from Internet without ever learning how to chew the cud yet!
just another idea theft!
However, his obvious tale is revealed finally with the correct prospective ..just another green horn! -
Originally posted by LazerLordz:I was a cynic once, when I was doing my studies in JI.It stayed with me throughout my NS life, until I ORDed, and began dabbling in photography, which really brought me out of my comfort zone and into the dwellings of the elderly and the destitute.It brought me to schools where students were lucky and more than happy to be out of NA or NT stream, never mind about thinking of the future.
I got myself thinking perhaps my craft could help to enlighten others to the plight of the less fortunate, and yet behind my mind, lay a deep sense of truth, which I reluctantly began to accept when I see that despite any sort of exhortations, no one really cared, and people spend their time or money, on "charity events" because of the prizes on offer.
No one does things for their own sake anymore, it's always about the Other and what the Other can offer.
We seem so modern, progressive and future-minded as a state, but as a society, the fair majority of Singaporeans still live day to day in denial and choose only to exist within their little bubble, and their ignorance is something sadly of their own making.If you cannot stand up to a bus captain abusing his power and berating an old lady, calling her names, I can surely understand why you will simply shut your eyes and choose the easiest path and not bother about any critical thinking.
My optimism died one day in February, when the above happened and my exhortations were the lone voice in a bus, where my fellow passengers continued in their iPod-strung world.
Call me a fool for daring to believe and to possess optimism.It's your own freedom of speech.I may have lost some of it, and surely a little dies everytime I see the blatant ignorance of the youth and fellow peers.But I will not begrudge your choice to be a sheep.After all, it's your choice to be slaughtered after the short but comfortable existence in a fenced up field. enlightenment and good thinking, though I won't give U an "A" for it..
Just said by myself: .. like people like priest
And who is the worst? The rulers are the first in blame, isn't it?
1 The word of the LORD came to me:
2 "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who only take care of themselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock?
3 You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock.
read more ? goto http://www.sgwiki.com/wiki/Ezekiel_34 -
The garmen had done a lot of good for the people but just that the people became ugly and unbecoming when seen by others with 20/20 vision!Originally posted by alien2: enlightenment and good thinking, though I won't give U an "A" for it..
Just said by myself: .. like people like priest
And who is the worst? The rulers are the first in blame, isn't it?
1 The word of the LORD came to me:
2 "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who only take care of themselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock?
3 You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock.
read more ? goto http://www.sgwiki.com/wiki/Ezekiel_34 -
Originally posted by alien2:
Is it not obvious that those with 20/20 vision can only see the ugly side of the Citizens with 6 / 6 vision ?
The garmen had done a lot of good for the people but just that the people became ugly and unbecoming when seen by others with 20/20 vision!
In this 21st Century, why should we depend on those who prefer to work with 20/20 views ?
BTW, according to Optometrist, those with 20/10 is supposed to be more superior to those with 20/20. -
Originally posted by Atobe:
WEll well.. I guess you have point.. but really how far did you ever travel out of the this paradise Island? Have you ever feel funny when you start to talk? Especially about where you are from? I tried to hide my identity without telling them all the facts, though I am as honest as any gentleman, and it is obvious we Singaporeans appear different, don't your good self agreed?
Is it not obvious that those with [b]20/20 vision can only see the ugly side of the Citizens with 6 / 6 vision ?
In this 21st Century, why should we depend on those who prefer to work with 20/20 views ?
BTW, according to Optometrist, those with 20/10 is supposed to be more superior to those with 20/20.[/b]
The other day I was in Kluang a small town in Johore State and that's where a lot of old timers from S'pore who had lived there once upon a time,
however, many had choose to be PRs here on the Island Paradise.
The Rumah Tunpamgan was known common as the White House Hotel and I had been a regular guest as far back as 1980s when there was a bus terminal next to it, but now demolished...
I always get a kick whenever I turned up there , and the comments about me and my Country was singled out like this always
So, how was Mr. LHL or Mister LKY...
Usually I would say they are doing fine and we have to Pay and pay..no choice lah!
Q Well I had lived many years in Vancouver, but now I am more of a visitor,
and they would somewhere pop up the same question and it was somewhere always related to Singapore a fine City where we have to pay and pay..then the subject was again "How's LKY and his son?"
Perhaps I was an outstanding one, but asked many of my own friends from S'pore.. they will tell often the same story too! -
Originally posted by alien2:
What drivel are you on about? Are you simply politically naive or intellectually retarded as well that you can't read things in the proper and appropriate context? Sounds like another Newt Gingrich to me(well, minus Gingrich's intellect)...
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=189789&page=1
another of the [b]copy-cat donkeys where originally is seldom found..he/she just learning some big loaded words from Internet without ever learning how to chew the cud yet! just another idea theft!
However, his obvious tale is revealed finally with the correct prospective ..just another green horn![/b] -
you watch too much TV therefore I guess your higher IQ comes partly from there.. I am not a TV fad and cannot tell waht's fellow represents: perhaps some old pyscho stuffs from the 60s right?Originally posted by walesa:What drivel are you on about? Are you simply politically naive or intellectually retarded as well that you can't read things in the proper and appropriate context? Sounds like another Newt Gingrich to me(well, minus Gingrich's intellect)... -
sorry I got him wrong.. just checked in the wikipedia.. well I don't look him, not the slightest bit at all !Originally posted by alien2:you watch too much TV therefore I guess your higher IQ comes partly from there.. I am not a TV fad and cannot tell waht's fellow represents: perhaps some old pyscho stuffs from the 60s right?
I 'm not interested in any women other than my wife..never had been invovled in actual politics except here at sgforum and at sgwiki...you flatter me! -
wtf!!!Originally posted by fudgester:I can relate to that. When I bring up discussions on political issues and argue against some of the ruling party's policies, my friends almost inevitably end up berating me for being a 'traitor' and for making mountains out of molehills.
Heck, I've been at the butt of stupid jokes about how I should don a Guy Fawkes mask and call myself 'F'.
This coming from people who proudly proclaim that the only news that concerns them is the sports section. Heck, they chide me for following world events and taking part in political discussions on sgforums.com.
If this is representative of the general mindset of Singapore's populace, then it's hard for me to not despair for Singapore's future.
and we are singing that we the young are the future owner of this country. this bunch of people are putting our future to some so call elites who would breakdown in stress and pressure by making stupid statements such as "fixed", "buy voters support", "will consult the people......may not implement..... will not implement.........", "who will they listen to?.....some touble markers"
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Well, it pretty much reflects your intelligence - and I rest my case. If I can't trust you to read what I said clearly(I don't ever recall comparing you to Gingrich in terms of looks to begin with), how can I trust a 'daft ingrate' to be able to understand my points and not quote me out of context?Originally posted by alien2:sorry I got him wrong.. just checked in the wikipedia.. well I don't look him, not the slightest bit at all !
I 'm not interested in any women other than my wife..never had been invovled in actual politics except here at sgforum and at sgwiki...you flatter me! -
Of course U r welcome to rest in peace.. nobody will ever do that after U cause a rocking Sporean group labelled by your clever or oxymoronic self asOriginally posted by walesa:Well, it pretty much reflects your intelligence - and I rest my case. If I can't trust you to read what I said clearly(I don't ever recall comparing you to Gingrich in terms of looks to begin with), how can I trust a 'daft ingrate' to be able to understand my points and not quote me out of context?
daft ingrates
Wise guy or laddie U r here to stay..& we will bug and horn U until U R.I.P.
..that BTW will be my only context wi U..hehehehehehe
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Originally posted by alien2:
Which just about sums up your intellect - when you still can't decipher the gender of Gingrich(despite claiming having checked him up on Wikipedia), what can I realistically expect you to read in context?
Of course U r welcome to rest in peace.. nobody will ever do that after U cause a rocking Sporean group labelled by your clever or oxymoronic self as
[b]daft ingrates
Wise guy or laddie U r here to stay..& we will bug and horn U until U R.I.P.
..that BTW will be my only context wi U..hehehehehehe [/b]
You're obviously more than a daft ingrate as your obvious lack of common sense would make even those with an IQ of 60 cringe. No wonder democracy would be a failure with morons like you a part of the process... -
Another Letter by someone from ST Forum
Some suggestions on how to have a back-to-basics election system and a more level playing field
'The current winner-takes-all election system deprives the 33.4 per cent of the electorate who voted for the opposition of any representation in Parliament,' wrote Dr Chan Kim Yong in his letter 'The winner-takes-all election system is flawed. Proportional representation is more democratic' (ST Online Forum, May 16).
I share his comments and notice that the political system evolving over the last two decades contains flaws. There are more than one million people who had no chance to vote for decades. The percentage of dissenting voices could be higher. For the good of the nation, the ruling party should think about going back to basics.
To establish a fair system in our multiracial society may have logistical problems. Shrinking the size of electoral divisions may help.
I hope the ruling party will consider my suggestion of going back to basics.
1. Out of the 84 seats in Parliament, we could have 18 three-member Group Representation Constituencies (GRCs). This will bring the total number of GRC candidates to 54, leaving 30 Single-Member Constituencies (SMCs) for the Chinese.
The bonus of this change is that the best from the minority groups must compete and choose to join the party they want because they have to go through the baptism of fire during the election hustings. The same criteria goes for all SMC candidates as well. The voters will pick the credible and capable candidates to represent them.
All Members of Parliament, whether they are minister or not, will have to be constantly in touch with their base during the five-year term under the new system in order to establish good rapport with residents.
This change expands the contesting wards to 48 - 18 GRCs and 30 SMCs - for 84 seats, instead of the current 23 wards - nine GRCs with five members, five super GRCs with six members and nine SMCs. Each elected MP can serve a smaller ward more effectively.
2. The number of voters in the new 48 electoral divisions will be around 25,000 to 30,000 per candidate. The electoral boundaries will remain unchanged for at least 10 to 15 years until an appreciable shift of population is detected. Electoral divisions that remain constant will serve both the ruling and opposition parties equally well. The playing field will be more level and each political party will field its best candidates to contest the parliamentary seats on individual merit and the track record of the party. The best one gets the job. The majority party will form the Government.
3. The Elections Department is independent like our judiciary system.
4. The mass media will devote sufficient time slots and space for all political parties during the election campaign. Live debates among the political parties will be aired. Paul Chan Poh Hoi -
Originally posted by LinYu:
I seriously doubt they would want to risk getting voted out by the people by doing so.
Another Letter by someone from ST Forum
[b]Some suggestions on how to have a back-to-basics election system and a more level playing field
'The current winner-takes-all election system deprives the 33.4 per cent of the electorate who voted for the opposition of any representation in Parliament,' wrote Dr Chan Kim Yong in his letter 'The winner-takes-all election system is flawed. Proportional representation is more democratic' (ST Online Forum, May 16).
I share his comments and notice that the political system evolving over the last two decades contains flaws. There are more than one million people who had no chance to vote for decades. The percentage of dissenting voices could be higher. For the good of the nation, the ruling party should think about going back to basics.
To establish a fair system in our multiracial society may have logistical problems. Shrinking the size of electoral divisions may help.
I hope the ruling party will consider my suggestion of going back to basics.
1. Out of the 84 seats in Parliament, we could have 18 three-member Group Representation Constituencies (GRCs). This will bring the total number of GRC candidates to 54, leaving 30 Single-Member Constituencies (SMCs) for the Chinese.
The bonus of this change is that the best from the minority groups must compete and choose to join the party they want because they have to go through the baptism of fire during the election hustings. The same criteria goes for all SMC candidates as well. The voters will pick the credible and capable candidates to represent them.
All Members of Parliament, whether they are minister or not, will have to be constantly in touch with their base during the five-year term under the new system in order to establish good rapport with residents.
This change expands the contesting wards to 48 - 18 GRCs and 30 SMCs - for 84 seats, instead of the current 23 wards - nine GRCs with five members, five super GRCs with six members and nine SMCs. Each elected MP can serve a smaller ward more effectively.
2. The number of voters in the new 48 electoral divisions will be around 25,000 to 30,000 per candidate. The electoral boundaries will remain unchanged for at least 10 to 15 years until an appreciable shift of population is detected. Electoral divisions that remain constant will serve both the ruling and opposition parties equally well. The playing field will be more level and each political party will field its best candidates to contest the parliamentary seats on individual merit and the track record of the party. The best one gets the job. The majority party will form the Government.
3. The Elections Department is independent like our judiciary system.
4. The mass media will devote sufficient time slots and space for all political parties during the election campaign. Live debates among the political parties will be aired. Paul Chan Poh Hoi[/b]
Besides, I don't think there are any oppositions capable of running Singapore like PAP have been all these decades.
It's like you can't live with, or without them - the PAP.