Military tactics and strategies
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LWSPH? I dun think the SAF has ordered any of that..... BTW, why issit that so few FH2000s were bought?
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yah, but no comfimed sightings. its just a rumourOriginally posted by thomasct:Hello,
There is still our " old " Centurian - Tempest MBT around. - -
i think i've seen the centurion on TV before. some news coverage. just a glimpse. and my fren has serviced it before.Originally posted by CenturionMBT:yah, but no comfimed sightings. its just a rumour
and i thought the FH2000 is locally produced? waitwait im a bit blur here. FH2000, bionix, terrex etc are local designs.. but are they made here? or made somewhere else and delivered here? or is that not for anyone to tell... -
Yes , our friend Centurian - Tempest MBT is real but its active or is in Reservists is another question ?Originally posted by recoil:i think i've seen the centurion on TV before. some news coverage. just a glimpse. and my fren has serviced it before.
and i thought the FH2000 is locally produced? waitwait im a bit blur here. FH2000, bionix, terrex etc are local designs.. but are they made here? or made somewhere else and delivered here? or is that not for anyone to tell...
ST equipment is produced & assemble locally .
[QUOTE]Originally posted by yourfather:
LWSPH? I dun think the SAF has ordered any of that..... BTW, why issit that so few FH2000s were bought? [QUOTE]
Dear YourFather,
Believed you are referring to 18 units of FH - 2000,
Let me highlight my thinking regarding the issue:
1. The 18 gun would just nice for an Artillery battalion ?
2. Every 2 years cycle, a Sg combat unit will produced another battalion of NS men going into Reserve.
3. Do you think not the reservist's battalions have the same type of equipment as they have been trained in the active service?
4. Therefore the MINIMAL nos. of FH 2000 gun be 18 guns X the nos. of active & reservists FH 2000 Artillery units - correct ? Actually should be more .
You have think and not take the nos. / information blindly even from Janes .
There is a lot of disinformation out there created /coming from vested interests & nationalistic sources.
[This message has been edited by thomasct (edited 20 June 2002).] -
I heard something like 20+ units. Got me real puzzled, cause there would be no sense in designing a whole new weapon and procuring it with such low numbers. You seem to suggest that there are more units involved, is that right? Could you then post a guestimate on how many you think are in service? thanks.
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True about the disinformation, but let me also point out that the number of FH2000 is not that many because the reservist (NSmen get retrained to use the FH88 anyway). In your post if what you suggest is correct, then there should be active units using M72S (Singapore upgraded version of the old Israeli Soltam M72 guns), but that is not the case. The arty guys who use FH88 during active service get retrained to use the M72S.Originally posted by thomasct:4. Therefore the MINIMAL nos. of FH 2000 gun be 18 guns X the nos. of active & reservists FH 2000 Artillery units - correct ? Actually should be more .
You have think and not take the nos. / information blindly even from Janes .
There is a lot of disinformation out there created /coming from vested interests & nationalistic sources.
(edited 20 June 2002).]
Retraining during annual reservist is nothing new. I know of guys who used to drive M113 get retained to drive the Bionix. Rifleman retained to use the new S21, etc...
Given how similar FH2000 and FH88 are, I can't see why FH2000 guys can be retained to use FH88 during their 13 years reservist. -
18 FH-2000s? A bit hard to believe leh. But 18xno of active & Reservists FH2000 units also doesn't make sense. I do believe that Singapore would cross train arty men to handle all the different guns. Since we don't have a proffessional army, this would be the smarter thing to do.
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are you sure the bionix can take a 105mm gun? thats a pretty big gun for a 20 ton tank...Originally posted by Joe Black:I think some sort of 105mm armed light tank is in the pipeline (rumour has it that it will be a design from STEngg based on Bionix chassis). We just have to sit and wait.
Another thing that I have heard was that it really depends who is the chief of army at any given time. If the Chief of Army comes from the arty background (trying not to name names here...
, then of course the arty units are going to get all the nice toys. Just look at how many new toys they have got since the late 80s till now, M72, FH88, FH2000, LH105, and now LWSPH). If the next Chief of army comes from one with armour background, I'm sure the armour units will get more and better vehicles other than the Bionix. Maybe a whole new gen of vehicle based on Terrex and a Bionix 105mm gun platform, maybe even some foreign designed tanks to replace the Centurions as well...
and are our longbows army assets or air force assets? are all 20 of them longbows or just 12? im not very clear. =P -
lets just say that there are only 18 FH2000 arty pieces in the inventory... PLUS lots of prefabricated spare parts that can be rapidly reassembled into dozens and dozens of new FH2000 in times of crisis...( before war breakout)Originally posted by Shotgun:18 FH-2000s? A bit hard to believe leh. But 18xno of active & Reservists FH2000 units also doesn't make sense. I do believe that Singapore would cross train arty men to handle all the different guns. Since we don't have a proffessional army, this would be the smarter thing to do.
Afterall... the biggest advantage of local production has been the ability to make all you want... and report watever you deemed sufficent....
and as long as the Guns are not assembled... well... technically its not in the total count... but if crisis developed and suddenly we see hundreds of FH2000 and thoudsands of other locally made vehicles moving all over singapore... (dont be surprise) -
True, I agree that we could report lesser than the amount actually produced, and assemble in times of crisis. However, I think your number of possible guns/vehicles is abit over inflated. Even working 24x7, it could not chunk out that amount within 1-2 months. Or you "not counted" means FH2000, without tires...Originally posted by tripwire:lets just say that there are only 18 FH2000 arty pieces in the inventory... PLUS lots of prefabricated spare parts that can be rapidly reassembled into dozens and dozens of new FH2000 in times of crisis...( before war breakout)
Afterall... the biggest advantage of local production has been the ability to make all you want... and report watever you deemed sufficent....
and as long as the Guns are not assembled... well... technically its not in the total count... but if crisis developed and suddenly we see hundreds of FH2000 and thoudsands of other locally made vehicles moving all over singapore... (dont be surprise)
ST been spending alot of R&D on high value assets, but seems not enough on the average infantry man. Some of those tonners/rovers are way due for retirement. -
Originally posted by recoil:
if the 20 tonne AMX10 can hold a 90mm cannon, I dun think it'll be any problem for a 24tonne bionix to hold a 105mm cannon...Anyway, they've already succeeded in mounting an enginneer's bridge to it (SVLB) so should be possible.
are you sure the bionix can take a 105mm gun? thats a pretty big gun for a 20 ton tank...
and are our longbows army assets or air force assets? are all 20 of them longbows or just 12? im not very clear. =P
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are you sure the bionix can take a 105mm gun? thats a pretty big gun for a 20 ton tank...Originally posted by recoil:Originally posted by Joe Black:
[b]
I think some sort of 105mm armed light tank is in the pipeline (rumour has it that it will be a design from STEngg based on Bionix chassis). We just have to sit and wait.
Another thing that I have heard was that it really depends who is the chief of army at any given time. If the Chief of Army comes from the arty background (trying not to name names here..., then of course the arty units are going to get all the nice toys. Just look at how many new toys they have got since the late 80s till now, M72, FH88, FH2000, LH105, and now LWSPH). If the next Chief of army comes from one with armour background, I'm sure the armour units will get more and better vehicles other than the Bionix. Maybe a whole new gen of vehicle based on Terrex and a Bionix 105mm gun platform, maybe even some foreign designed tanks to replace the Centurions as well...
and are our longbows army assets or air force assets? are all 20 of them longbows or just 12? im not very clear. =P
[/b]12 apache got longbow... 8 no have longbow....
BUT... the americanos are pushing SAF to put longbows on all the 20 apache..... and then buy another 40 apache without longbows..... -
Speaking of Apaches, only the last 12 will have the Arrowhead system. Also, it seems that we have an unusual agreement with Boeing, such that the Longbow system is on a "pay as you use" basis. The rationale is that the Longbow system is slated to receive upgrades (range improvements etc) very soon, and we will upgrade our Apaches with the upgraded Longbow system when it's available.
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I saw a report(in Flight International I think) stating that 12 RSAF Apaches have Longbow, but the other 8 doesn't, but I believe that report is errorneous. Officially Singapore only has 8 sets of Longbow radar on order
I saw a picture of RSAF's first Apache on a Yahoo discussion groups recently, showing the first of Singapores Apaches that was recently delivered, from the 1st batch of 8. It HAS the Longbow radar.
Given that the original FMS contract for the 8 AH-64Ds(1st order) also DID NOT contain Longbow(the radar was provided for in a separate FMS contract with the radar's manufacturer, not with Boeing, and was announced MUCH LATER that the helo order), I would not be surprised that the 12 we have on order will also have the Longbow radar, but the order has not been announced yet, considering that we've ordered the 2nd batch of 12 in Aug 2001, expect a low-profile(ie not in Straits Times) announcement in the coming months. -
Final Ans RUn while u CAN
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I saw a video today which stated that the FH-2000 was exported to a NATO country. Does anybody know which country is that?
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Honestly, I don't believe its possible to arm an effective 105mm gun on the Bionix without making major changes. No point havin low pressure guns like the 100mms on the BMPs.
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why do you think it not possible to arm the Bionix with a 105mm? There are already 2 wheeled vehicles sporting 120mms....
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And how many shots can those 2 vehicles fire without recalibrating?
Actually, a 105mm gun can be mounted on the Bionix, just wondering what kinda changes they have to make to the chasis. Esp. regarding survivability. -
Hmmm, I dunno :-) But definitely such a problem would have been well-considered during the product design phase. The vehicle would have been built to handle the gun's recoil, and I think that it would be a reasonable assumption that the recalibrating problem would be minimised through design optimisation. (otherwise why put a 120mm cannon on it if the chassis cannot handle it, or the gun has to be recalibrated after every few rounds fired?)Originally posted by Shotgun:And how many shots can those 2 vehicles fire without recalibrating?
Actually, a 105mm gun can be mounted on the Bionix, just wondering what kinda changes they have to make to the chasis. Esp. regarding survivability.
BTW, here's some latest news on Singapore's JSF participation...
"The Pentagon said on Thursday it was discussing special deals to bring Israel and Singapore into development of the Joint Strike Fighter aircraft. "We have not determined exactly what the relationship is going to be," said Edward Aldridge, the Pentagon's chief weapons purchaser. "We're still in negotiations with them."
Aldridge said he hoped Australia would begin negotiations on joining by July 15, the deadline he has set for invited countries to declare at least their intent to join. (Reuters, June 20) -
Hi guys, I just found this page:
http://www.dsta.gov.sg/newsroom/2001/report/220601_jane_singapore_deconstruction_forges_ahead.htm
there are a few interesting points I would like to raise from the article for discussion...
1.
Is SAF arty units going for a big boost? True SP (tracked) vehicle? MLRS type weapons?
More clearly fulfilling a local requirement, Singapore bought 54 United Defense LP M109-series SPH chassis. These will be fitted with an indigenous 155mm/52-cal turret, but the programme's timetable is not known. Firepower may eventually be further strengthened by acquiring a multiple-rocket launcher system. Although Singapore has so far hesitated to introduce such a capability to the region.
2.
Wow, I never knew any boats that can go 70kt. Even the Navy Seals don't have such boats. I wonder how acurrate this figure is....
commando battalion is re-equipping with high-speed boats capable of reaching 70kt.
3.
Looks like RSN may get more new subs pretty soon....
The SAF says the four Sjöormen-class submarines, two of which are now in Singapore and two in Sweden, were obtained for training. The boats have operational capabilities, but originally date from the mid-1960s and are fairly small, at a displacement of 1,210 tons (dived). Industry sources say the evaluation process is still under way, but they expect this to lead to an order for substantially more sophisticated submarines before the decade ends.
BTW, this articule was published in the Janes Defence Weekly, but reproduced in DSTA website. Interestingly, the comments made must then be right on the dot for DSTA to reproduce it. -
Fwah, sounds like Jane's made DSTA lan lan again.
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The mains reason for Sg to aquire FH 2000 ;Originally posted by Joe Black:Given how similar FH2000 and FH88 are, I can't see why FH2000 guys can be retained to use FH88 during their 13 years reservist.
1. Better range & performance
2. LESS manpower required.
Correct me if I am wrong .
FH- 88 have a 8 men crew
FH- 2000 have a 6 men crew.
So if FH 2000 unit want change over to FH 88 guns , the unit concerned will have increased its strenght by at 33 % - to have the same nos. of gun.
THe main reason that why SG bought the FH 2000 in the first place is to reduced manpower .
[quote]Originally posted by :tripwire lb] [quote]ets just say that there are only 18 FH2000 arty pieces in the inventory... PLUS lots of prefabricated spare parts that can be rapidly reassembled into dozens and dozens of new FH2000 in times of crisis...( before war breakout) [/b]Sorry my friend , it is not that simple. lb] but if crisis developed and suddenly we see hundreds of FH2000 and thoudsands of other locally made vehicles moving all over singapore... (dont be surprise) [/b]
As for the above comments , my only comment please do not get " carry away " and make yourself a
One more thing thing , NOBODY correct me when I deliberately overstated the nos. of gun in a art. bn. 
That all for now - got to make a move .
Yourfather
What video you are refering to ??
Your question regarding nos. of Fh 2000, I will " elaborate "" in my next posting .
Shotgun
For you , some comments on the Bionix . -
Sorry if i interrupt anyone filpping through the latest Jane Military but.......
I think better import more Prosthetics legs and arms. maybe get the latest wheel chairs and import more foreign nurses.
Hey i got a better idea, lets buy big big insurance policy so our old mom and dad can get on w/o us, if we are gone.
In war who knows where the wind blows. After the war, maybe 5 out of 10 chinese males will be maimed for life (what's life of the male chinese population anyway). A trip down orchard road u will probably see pple without leg, or hands, without an eye, or blinded. Look at the news of war torn country.pple w/o legs and arms. u all really want war?
Battle of Somme, Britain lost their cream of their man hood, so how long will spore have to wait to replace a lost generation? -
No one wants war. All our men are real, not numbers or statistics, and when lives are lost (especially in our small country) in a war, the whole country feels it. Thats why the Government makes efforts to reduce conflicts and enhance the survivability of our troops. We still have to maintain a credible force, you never know when war may happen.