Hougang and Potong Pasir prove Singaporeans support PAP
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The subject headline is deliberately provocative just to draw readers...so dun flame before you read what follows:
The high level of support for these two Opposition wards show that Singaporeans are prepared to risk estate upgrading to a tune of millions of dollars, just to choose the MP of their choice. Despite the odds stacked so heavily against them, SDA and WP won these seats fairly comfortably.
What does this mean for the other constituencies? Despite a drop in the votes (PAP's claim to a strong mandate is a brave front for what they must recognize is a falling level of support), a good 66% of the population still support the PAP.
Detractors who used to talk about upgrading as the reason for PAP's hold to power are obviously wrong. Hougang and Potong Pasir have shown us that if the people want to, they will vote the Opposition despite upgrading and the attendant financial rewards. And those who talk about fears of votes being traced are obviously the most cowardly of Singaporeans. The thousands in Hougang and Potong Pasir were not afraid and had voted the Opposition all the same.
The only conclusion that one can draw is that apart from these two constituencies, the vast majority of Singaporeans still support the PAP. -
singaporeans must be clear about this.
nobody wants a new party to run the country. at least we know the opposition dont have enough capable people to do a good job, YET!!
but it is also important to have oppositions in the parliament to voice out grievances and ask questions. -
Since majority of the population still support PAP, it should see fit to disband the GRCs and revert to SMCs, with the preferential voting clause added in.
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Let's see what happens to aljunied grc first, will it turn into ala eunos ala cheng san?
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I can't see any other party running the government as well as or better than the PAP.
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Proportional representation should be introduced to moderate first-past-the-post as a practical way to prevent one-party-rule. Other good suggestion include the need to cut down on a system based on power play by one man or a group of men which will lead to lopsided policies based on assumptions and pride of individuals that benefit no one except the personages.Originally posted by iveco:Since majority of the population still support PAP, it should see fit to disband the GRCs and revert to SMCs, with the preferential voting clause added in.
There is now a need for people to understand the importance of going back to basic of accountability and transparency.
There is nothing sinister or unreasonable in what people are asking or what the oppositions or people who voted for opposition are asking. Their views are along the above-mentioned lines of thinking which may be simply put as progress and further upgrade from the old system of so-called leadership which in the final analysis is only self-centred power play to suit the individuals. Only when there is collective leadership and motivational management, will there be real success as practised by Fortune 500 companies. -
If your conclusion is drawn based on the votes for PAP, then you may conclude that the voting favors/supports PAP, but you cannot conclude that the vast majority of Singaporeans support PAP.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The only conclusion that one can draw is that apart from these two constituencies, the vast majority of Singaporeans still support the PAP.
I have chatted with various people, mostly friends and the surprising thing about them is that, despite them preferring oppositions to win, they are afraid of losing out the goodies that are presented to them. The outcome is that they will vote for PAP. From this, we can see that despite singaporeans may support the opposition, but the votes still go to PAP.
You can't say it's a fair election. You cannot conclude things based on an unfair voting stance. Let's say, if we go out with your friends, you bring 10 friends and I don't know them, but they are your friends so if anything goes, they are very likely to root/support for you. If one day, we had a disagreement on who is a better person to lead the company, your 10 friends will support you because of the connections between you guys and girls. But if, I supposedly, took out $1,000,000 cash and is willing to give $100,000 each to anyone who support me, honestly from your heart, will you say that the 10 friends who support you will still vote for you to lead the company? Will you say that hey, the voting outcome is fair? I think this world is realistic. Someone point a gun at you, you're probably gonna do his biding, even though it's against your normal procedures. That's life. -
i wonder if the aljunied near defeat will make them switch back to single wards?
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PAP has the channels to the country's money, the opposition do not have such priviledge resources. It's totally unfair in the first place. But assuming things are fair (ok- it's very laughable but somehow, let's pretend ok?), how could we assume they wouldn't do a better job without giving them a chance first? Alot of talented people in this world were denied to be top in the world, not because they don't have the talents mind you, but simply, because they don't have the opportunities to do so.Originally posted by kahlen:I can't see any other party running the government as well as or better than the PAP. -
I can with u there will be no more ALjunid GRC next time round, they are like akuah, scare to lose, half of Aljunid will go Marine Parade, half go to East Coarst, if they still kiasu, then put 10 men GRC sure to win for the next 100 years.Originally posted by ditzy:Let's see what happens to aljunied grc first, will it turn into ala eunos ala cheng san? -
U r right, it is the oppotunity and connection, that will make u talented, if Lee Bee Wah from AMK GRC were in opposition. do u think she can be projected as a capable MP. anyway it is still too early to say, she just know how to critisize the opposition candidates have flaw character, but just look at Ahmad Khalis, PAP Malay MP which I voted in Hong Kah GRC, in 2001, what happen to him, he has flaw character, swindle client money, is that what PAP so called striengent selection of candidates? No body brought up this case in the GE becos Straists Times did not report until after election, u see how the media is biased, how dirty the tactic,Originally posted by DailyFreeGames.com:PAP has the channels to the country's money, the opposition do not have such priviledge resources. It's totally unfair in the first place. But assuming things are fair (ok- it's very laughable but somehow, let's pretend ok?), how could we assume they wouldn't do a better job without giving them a chance first? Alot of talented people in this world were denied to be top in the world, not because they don't have the talents mind you, but simply, because they don't have the opportunities to do so. -
pardon my reply:
thats such an illogical conclusion... -
Our self-centred leaders simply refused to accept the painful fact the the ruling party despite all its claim of talents and leadership in their ministes like George Yeo or PM Lee himself are losing 7-10 % of popular votes to newbies of WP who have little or no experience in politics.
Minister Goerge Yeo in today's mother day is trying to say that the loss of votes was caused by people's perception that the incumbent party has no problem in forming the government and became more experimental with their votes.
What a hypocrisy to describe such swing in votes as merely caused by such a factor? May be by looking into the horoscope or crystal ball he could get a better answer. -
apparently the pap leadsership doesn't read the straits times otherwise they would have read the largely negative contributions to the forum of late.......
i know for a fact that the pm has a secretary whose main task is to sift through newspapers all over and cut out relevant articles for him to read..... -
I disagree with the conclusion.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The high level of support for these two Opposition wards show that Singaporeans are prepared to risk estate upgrading to a tune of millions of dollars, just to choose the MP of their choice. Despite the odds stacked so heavily against them, SDA and WP won these seats fairly comfortably.
What does this mean for the other constituencies? Despite a drop in the votes (PAP's claim to a strong mandate is a brave front for what they must recognize is a falling level of support), a good 66% of the population still support the PAP.
Detractors who used to talk about upgrading as the reason for PAP's hold to power are obviously wrong. Hougang and Potong Pasir have shown us that if the people want to, they will vote the Opposition despite upgrading and the attendant financial rewards. And those who talk about fears of votes being traced are obviously the most cowardly of Singaporeans. The thousands in Hougang and Potong Pasir were not afraid and had voted the Opposition all the same.
The only conclusion that one can draw is that apart from these two constituencies, the vast majority of Singaporeans still support the PAP.
There is another way to look at the same problem. Given a large sample of Singaporeans there is only a small percentage say 25% that are willing to forgo Housing upgrades for opposition voice.
In the old electoral system where there are 82 seats. The chance of the smaller group of brave being clustered together and being overepresented in a ward is very small, but is happens.The chance of that happening is 2 out of 82 = 2-3% that is Hougang and Potond Pasir.
the other 82 seats won showed how good the strategy is. Only a small group of people did not succumbed to it.
The real test of popularity of PAP should be when it distributes national services and housing upgrading benefit equitably and its corresponding results.Any claims that upgrading has no effect is a nothing but hollow claim. PAP should show us that it can win without the threats. -
As you said, the chances of that happening is very small...yet you choose to believe that's the reason. I call that great faithOriginally posted by kilua:The chance of the smaller group of brave being clustered together and being overepresented in a ward is very small, but is happens.The chance of that happening is 2 out of 82 = 2-3% that is Hougang and Potond Pasir.
Fact is, if people choose to believe in something, they will believe even though the facts to the contrary are clearly before them. -
With the Ruling Party garnering only 66.6% from the contested wards, there remains the other wards with 32 Parliamentary Seats that were uncontested.
The " overwhelming suppport " claimed is against the actual count of votes that reflect a decline - (when compared to the 2001 results) - for the Prime Minister's own standing in his leadership of the Party, and as the Prime Minister of Singapore, and in his anchor role for his GRC.
From the records of the Workers' Party, the following average of votes won in each election will show that there remains a consistent number of supporters for the Opposition in the contested wards.
GE 1972 24.5% average of all valid votes in 27 single seat ward
GE 1976 30.7% average of all valid votes in 22 single seat ward
GE 1980 29.7% average of all valid votes in 8 single seat ward
GE 1984 41.3% average of all valid votes in 15 single seat ward
GE 1988 36.5% average of all valid votes in 5 GRCx3 and 14 single seat
GE 1991 39.7% average of all valid votes in 2 GRCx4 and and 5 single seat
GE 1997 40.6% average of all valid votes in 1 GRCx5, 2 GRCx4 and 1 single seat.
GE 2001 40.6% average of all valid votes in 2 single seat wards
GE 2006 39.7% average of all valid votes in 2 GRCx5, 1 GRCx6 and 4 single seats.
The percentages shown are the average of valid ballots received by the Workers' Party, and in the wards which they have fought for; and despite the increase in the number of candidates, the Workers' Party has managed to maintain their average over the last 8 General Elections.
The 2006 average results showed the Workers' Party holding to their average score despite having 20 candidates - with two groups in a 5 member GRC, and one group in a 6 member GRC.
The earlier years showed a smaller number of candidates being fielded, especially with the smallest fielding of only two candidates in GE 2001.
Why should we doubt the ability of the candidates from the Opposition to run Singapore ?
MM LKY and his first generation of founding fathers - had zero experience when they took over the reins of government, and with MM LKY breaking down in 1965 - when Singapore was ousted from Malaysia; leaving Dr Toh Chin Chye and Dr Goh Keng Swee to run Singapore without LKY.
Everyone of us have an innate sense of organising, multi-tasking, systematic and disciplined thought process, a good dose of forward looking ability, and a clear mind of the goals ahead for Singaporeans and Singapore.
Given the responsiblity, Singaporeans have the ability to quickly learn the ropes and fill into the larger size shoes - as can be seen in the many young and old Singaporeans having the ability to learn on the job, improvise, brain storm, and move ahead with diligences and care.
It is no different in governing a country, in which the Leader or Leaders will have to quickly organise a team of visionaries and clear headed thinkers, to brainstorm on the many issues in taking over and running the Government.
A new system will need to be set in place, where non-sensitive government information is shared amongst all Members of Parliament - from both sides of the ailse.
This is to allow intelligent debate to be made; and where a shadow cabinet is formed so as to ensure stability for Singapore whenever there is a transfer of powers in a change of political party to form the government. -
What the Ruling party cannot win, they legislate....a 3rd time carve-up of a hotspot GRC may backfire on them this time however, with public sentiment highly charged. It may further enhance the lack of backbone in the Ruling Party's aim to 'win the hearts and minds' of the residents, instead choosing the 'easy way out' by a nick tuck to control the overall majority votes in specific zones.Originally posted by ditzy:Let's see what happens to aljunied grc first, will it turn into ala eunos ala cheng san? -
I don't think there was ever any issue of this. The question is what level of support and how this support was garnered or lost.
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I dont think that is faith. Its like saying with confidence that on average half of coin flips with turn out head. Its all a matter of probability. I am sure you know that as well.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:As you said, the chances of that happening is very small...yet you choose to believe that's the reason. I call that great faith
Fact is, if people choose to believe in something, they will believe even though the facts to the contrary are clearly before them.
Given the sample conditions, the representation may be higher in other countries without the GRC system. -
Who don't want to enjoy life? Human are selfish, i won't be surprise if PAP win back potong pasir and hougang. Is just a matter of time. Sooner or later PAP will conquer the whole of singapore again due to singaporeans kiasi and greed.
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WTF! I'd ratehr have Steve Chia inastead of this Ahmed Khalis guy as my MP.Originally posted by t_a_s:U r right, it is the oppotunity and connection, that will make u talented, if Lee Bee Wah from AMK GRC were in opposition. do u think she can be projected as a capable MP. anyway it is still too early to say, she just know how to critisize the opposition candidates have flaw character, but just look at Ahmad Khalis, PAP Malay MP which I voted in Hong Kah GRC, in 2001, what happen to him, he has flaw character, swindle client money, is that what PAP so called striengent selection of candidates? No body brought up this case in the GE becos Straists Times did not report until after election, u see how the media is biased, how dirty the tactic,
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Actually, its should not really be a matter of who runs Singapore - it should be the civil service that essentially runs Singapore basically; the airports, the transport authority, the hawker centres - regardless of which government comes into power.Originally posted by Atobe:Why should we doubt the ability of the candidates from the Opposition to run Singapore ?
MM LKY and his first generation of founding fathers - had zero experience when they took over the reins of government, and with MM LKY breaking down in 1965 - when Singapore was ousted from Malaysia; leaving Dr Toh Chin Chye and Dr Goh Keng Swee to run Singapore without LKY.
Everyone of us have an innate sense of organising, multi-tasking, systematic and disciplined thought process, a good dose of forward looking ability, and a clear mind of the goals ahead for Singaporeans and Singapore.
Given the responsiblity, Singaporeans have the ability to quickly learn the ropes and fill into the larger size shoes - as can be seen in the many young and old Singaporeans having the ability to learn on the job, improvise, brain storm, and move ahead with diligences and care.
Of course there are the mayoral level responsibilities for individual townships and GRC's, but both Low and Chiam have showed that at the micro level, the opposition can perform well, even when the nation-level funding, for which their consituencies should rightfully have some share, is not given in order to punish the voters, as it were.
Somewhere there is the thought that the civil service is part of the PAP government, and one wonders if this in fact true or just a ruse to frighten folks that they imagine mounds of garbage piling high in front of their house because there will be a breakdown of system?