Violinist not allowed to defer NS
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no not from this bugger he got to server his ICT
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Oh...you mean liu zhi qin mo?Originally posted by Wind6:Use the violin supersonic waves and kill enemies
The six-fingered qin devil
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no wonder Singapore is a mediocore country. We don't have the worst neither we have the best. Simply because the environment is not conducive. What a waste of talents... If I'm the parents of the boy. I'll let him migrate. What is the NS or citizenship can offer to his unlimited future and oppotunities ahead.
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not everyone is born to handle a gun. why waste a potential talent?Originally posted by the Bear:again, some people are more equal than others?
is it any wonder within the system we cannot produce any world class artistic talents...
besides, he's asking for a DEFERMENT, not asking to be allowed to escape NS entirely.
and if all those PSC scholars, govt scholars are allowed to defer, why not him? Like u said, some people r more equal than others? Sadly this seems to be the case, but only in favour of people with govt backing, instead of purely on potential talent. -
not everyone is born to handle a gun..
but somehow, he is good with a violin, they can allow him to defer while others who are good at other things are not allowed to defer?
there has been a law out already that no one is allowed to defer NS anymore..
not the PSC scholars, not the whatever the heck scholars...
now to allow him to defer, it would show that some are indeed more equal than others
Originally posted by HENG@:not everyone is born to handle a gun. why waste a potential talent?
is it any wonder within the system we cannot produce any world class artistic talents...
besides, he's asking for a DEFERMENT, not asking to be allowed to escape NS entirely.
and if all those PSC scholars, govt scholars are allowed to defer, why not him? Like u said, some people r more equal than others? Sadly this seems to be the case, but only in favour of people with govt backing, instead of purely on potential talent. -
really? nobody AT ALL, is allowed to defer? What about the med students? And if PSC scholars are not allowed to defer, how come current PSC scholars who have finished their degrees are allowed to defer further for their post-grads? they've got a basic degree, shouldn't they go back to serve? how come they're allowed to defer FURTHER?Originally posted by the Bear:not everyone is born to handle a gun..
but somehow, he is good with a violin, they can allow him to defer while others who are good at other things are not allowed to defer?
there has been a law out already that no one is allowed to defer NS anymore..
not the PSC scholars, not the whatever the heck scholars...
now to allow him to defer, it would show that some are indeed more equal than others
I don't think its true that NOBODY is allowed to defer. They're just pulling wool over your eyes, laughing as they let people with special ties defer. If u want fair, then ANYBODY can defer, as long as its for the purpose of further studies, and then only for basic degrees or diplomas. -
Hello Heng,
good to hear from you again!
I know that not everybody is born to handle a gun, however, that cannot be an excuse and a ground for not serving national service or to get an easier vocation in National Service as far as the Singapore NS system is concerned, cos that will go against the principle of universatility and equity of Singapore's national service system and as our defence minister Teo Chee Hean stated, it would be unfair if talented enlistees were treated specially from those non talented ones.
I realise that the violinist is asking for a DEFERMENT and NOT asking to escape NS altogether. However, do you mind if I ask this, can he give a 100% guarantee that he will return to serve after his deferment period is over? Who knows, he might find his life and opportunity abroad so attractive and decide to follow his heart instead of his head and not return to Singapore to serve his NS.
I also do realise that this sounds somewhat harsh but I guess this just shows what a misfortune it is to be born in this country as a male!
Thats why if one does not want this problem of NS, best option is migrate and settle elsewhere. Feel free to reply. -
thats a risk isn't it? but then again they took the risk with many other PSC scholars etc.Originally posted by THE ANALYST:Hello Heng,
good to hear from you again!
I know that not everybody is born to handle a gun, however, that cannot be an excuse and a ground for not serving national service or to get an easier vocation in National Service as far as the Singapore NS system is concerned, cos that will go against the principle of universatility and equity of Singapore's national service system and as our defence minister Teo Chee Hean stated, it would be unfair if talented enlistees were treated specially from those non talented ones.
I realise that the violinist is asking for a DEFERMENT and NOT asking to escape NS altogether. However, do you mind if I ask this, can he give a 100% guarantee that he will return to serve after his deferment period is over? Who knows, he might find his life and opportunity abroad so attractive and decide to follow his heart instead of his head and not return to Singapore to serve his NS.
I also do realise that this sounds somewhat harsh but I guess this just shows what a misfortune it is to be born in this country as a male!
Thats why if one does not want this problem of NS, best option is migrate and settle elsewhere. Feel free to reply.
why can't we take the high road in when trying to be fair, and allow everyone to defer, instead of taking the low road, and end up crippling potential talents in the arts and culture? I don't like it. This shouldn't be the way a society behaves if it's trying to work towards being an enlightened society. It just feels barbaric. -
I guess that's exactly what Mindef is afraid of.Originally posted by THE ANALYST:I realise that the violinist is asking for a DEFERMENT and NOT asking to escape NS altogether. However, do you mind if I ask this, can he give a 100% guarantee that he will return to serve after his deferment period is over? Who knows, he might find his life and opportunity abroad so attractive and decide to follow his heart instead of his head and not return to Singapore to serve his NS.
Especially since Singapore is not exactly a good place for developing musical talent. -
Oh, don't you know? Serving the country comes first, while everything else that you aspire to do or become, is last or ever even respected unless you're some scholarship student studying to better the economy of Singapore. Arts, music and all that stuff, you can forget it.Originally posted by liang1972:In today's newspaper, the violinist is not allowed to defer NS and his family is appealing. I find that Mindef is rigid and it is not often that we can get talented musicians who are accepted by prestigious Curtis.
I hope that Mindef can approve his deferment. All this gun handling in NS can blunt his skills in violin playing after two years.
By the way, you should know our government is all about RIGIDITY. They'd only uphold their policies and rules while you and your situation can take a hike. That's my experience - and many others. -
Yes indeed Heng, it appears to be not a good policy that cripples the growth of the arts and culture sector in Singapore.
Very unfortunate that Singapore has this kind of attitude. Thats why I say best to migrate to another country in this kind of situation and move to a place where there is a better prospect for music and the arts. -
if i happen to be a potentially great chef, and some 5-star french acaedemy has invited me to join them, can i get a deferment?
now, bring it down a little... i can fix a car with a spanner and some duct tape and the guys at American Chopper is going to give me a go...
can i get a deferment?
so, more equal?
you guys rant and rage about bloody equality and something comes along which makes EVERYONE equal, you guys rant and rage AGAINST it!
nevermind... -
An enlightened government will take the chance of some defaulting and choosing not to return, but surely some will, and do their country proud. Our government should look at the deeper issues as to why people do not feel enough of a sense of belonging to Singapore, and choose to give up their citizenship just like that. After all the years of reciting the national pledge, singing the national anthem, and national education, why do our young people find it so easy to leave? Resentment towards the draconian rules and regulations dictating life in Singapore? No sense of having a stake in Singapore? Our "leaders" should think long and hard about this.Originally posted by HENG@:thats a risk isn't it? but then again they took the risk with many other PSC scholars etc.
why can't we take the high road in when trying to be fair, and allow everyone to defer, instead of taking the low road, and end up crippling potential talents in the arts and culture? I don't like it. This shouldn't be the way a society behaves if it's trying to work towards being an enlightened society. It just feels barbaric. -
equality NOT at the expense of social progress.Originally posted by the Bear:if i happen to be a potentially great chef, and some 5-star french acaedemy has invited me to join them, can i get a deferment?
now, bring it down a little... i can fix a car with a spanner and some duct tape and the guys at American Chopper is going to give me a go...
can i get a deferment?
so, more equal?
you guys rant and rage about bloody equality and something comes along which makes EVERYONE equal, you guys rant and rage AGAINST it!
nevermind...
but i guess thats too much to ask for. Equality can only be had without damage to social progress if the people in charge aren't paranoid, power-hungry, and only give a damn about themselves.
and to yr question, yes. if American Chopper is going to educate u, why not? Whats so hard about that sort of equality?
Oh i know u're going to talk about how our military might will take a hit. Technically, if EVERYONE who defers, returns, then it shouldn't have a detrimental impact on our military strength.
The thing is, people must have integrity and return to serve. The "hard" part of acheiving a good positive sort of equality, is how to ensure people have that sort of integrity and honour to return. If our people are that dishonest to begin with, that if a policy allowing anyone who wishes to defer for the purpose of any sort of education to defer, will harm our nation's overall military strength, then im not so sure that if they're needed to fight, they won't all be deserting anyway. -
why do we need to gut our own country just to do well in the arts? why can't we do well in the arts in a beneficial way to our country and society?Originally posted by THE ANALYST:Yes indeed Heng, it appears to be not a good policy that cripples the growth of the arts and culture sector in Singapore.
Very unfortunate that Singapore has this kind of attitude. Thats why I say best to migrate to another country in this kind of situation and move to a place where there is a better prospect for music and the arts.
thats what i cannot understand. Why choose a sort of equality that ends up doing no good to everyone? Assuming im a dictator and i decree that everyone in my country, have to give me all their belongings, thats certainly quite "fair" for everyone isn't it? And of course people close to me are secretly exempted but officially, everyone has to comply. Its equality, but its certainly not the good kind either... -
some ppl cannot take the fact that whatever equality this policy achieves, its a negative sort of policy. Its coming close to barbarism.Originally posted by av98m:An enlightened government will take the chance of some defaulting and choosing not to return, but surely some will, and do their country proud. Our government should look at the deeper issues as to why people do not feel enough of a sense of belonging to Singapore, and choose to give up their citizenship just like that. After all the years of reciting the national pledge, singing the national anthem, and national education, why do our young people find it so easy to leave? Resentment towards the draconian rules and regulations dictating life in Singapore? No sense of having a stake in Singapore? Our "leaders" should think long and hard about this. -
really? nobody AT ALL, is allowed to defer? What about the med students? And if PSC scholars are not allowed to defer, how come current PSC scholars who have finished their degrees are allowed to defer further for their post-grads? they've got a basic degree, shouldn't they go back to serve? how come they're allowed to defer FURTHER?
For almost a decade or more, medical students are not allowed to defer automatically. Those who are medically fit and have performed well enough during BMT to make it to Officers Cadet School are allowed to defer for local studies so that SAF will have a supply of cheap medical officers. Perhaps if the SAF thinks it is just as critical to have a cheap violinist in the army, it may allow this exception
PSC scholars are no longer allowed to defer following the new legislation. Those who have applied and have been granted deferment previously obviously will be allowed to carry on.
It is time to plug the loophole in our system as I have urged the government to do and I am glad that has come about. The bear is right: so this chap has to forgo this great opportunity for the time being, but so did numerous others over the years. -
why do we need to gut our own country just to do well in the arts? why can't we do well in the arts in a beneficial way to our country and society?
National service is compulsory. Hardly anyone would volunteer to give up two of their prime years to serve in the army. As such, it must be applied equally to all or the system will fail.
thats what i cannot understand. Why choose a sort of equality that ends up doing no good to everyone?
Those who have not served are in no position and lack the moral platform even to comment. -
some ppl cannot take the fact that whatever equality this policy achieves, its a negative sort of policy. Its coming close to barbarism.
That's your opinion...and from someone who has not served NS. I believe the policy should be applied as equally as possible...you call it barbarism? I call it elitism otherwise.
I have no issue with allowing someone to defer to train in a skill that is crucial for running the army. But allowing someone to defer merely because he can play the violin?? -
Females should serve NS...Originally posted by pwnz0r:Not happy, dun be Singaporean lor.. So simple. Go US, do well and get your green card.
If you want to talk about equality, let's see some females do NS. Are they truly the weaker sex? They ask for equality in SG, then I say we give it to them. Females have the ability to outperform guys in every aspect, and increasingly, I see lesser reason why they should not serve.
as ER nurses since such people are in short supply. -
In the 1st case, you could become a chef on one of the navy vessels.Originally posted by the Bear:if i happen to be a potentially great chef, and some 5-star french acaedemy has invited me to join them, can i get a deferment?
now, bring it down a little... i can fix a car with a spanner and some duct tape and the guys at American Chopper is going to give me a go...
can i get a deferment?
so, more equal?
you guys rant and rage about bloody equality and something comes along which makes EVERYONE equal, you guys rant and rage AGAINST it!
nevermind...
In the 2nd, OETI may need you.
Still, I can't help but feel that this budding musician is getting posted to some $hitty infantry unit.
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agreeOriginally posted by HENG@:not everyone is born to handle a gun. why waste a potential talent?
is it any wonder within the system we cannot produce any world class artistic talents...
besides, he's asking for a DEFERMENT, not asking to be allowed to escape NS entirely.
and if all those PSC scholars, govt scholars are allowed to defer, why not him? Like u said, some people r more equal than others? Sadly this seems to be the case, but only in favour of people with govt backing, instead of purely on potential talent.
many of u are angry that he shldnt b allowed to defer ns
and shld serve ns juz lyk everyone else
Firstly,hes onli defering and notescaping ns
secondly,if hes allowed to b defer ns bcuz f his special talents,
then on a national level,shldnt we b proud of that?
Mayb u guys shld look at the bigger picture that hes gonna make singapore proud
complainign juz bcuz if hes granted a deferment for his abiltiies is truly shallow
he'll still b serving ns in time to come..thats all
y the whining? -
If he gets into MDC when he returns from his musical course, those who served in $hitty combat posts will only feel jealous.Originally posted by olala:agree
many of u are angry that he shldnt b allowed to defer ns
and shld serve ns juz lyk everyone else
Firstly,hes onli defering and notescaping ns
secondly,if hes allowed to b defer ns bcuz f his special talents,
then on a national level,shldnt we b proud of that?
Mayb u guys shld look at the bigger picture that hes gonna make singapore proud
complainign juz bcuz if hes granted a deferment for his abiltiies is truly shallow
he'll still b serving ns in time to come..thats all
y the whining? -
How to you explain equality for all?Originally posted by olala:y the whining? -
It depends on how far u wan it t be?Originally posted by TooFree:How to you explain equality for all?
We're all singaporean
and shldnt we be gracious to our fellow nationaman?
Lets juz say after his postition in the united states
he has the interrity to return and serve his NS
In my eye,its already equality
That said in the fact that he kept his part of the bargain
and wuld serve Ns no matter what
We shldnt be whinning about juz bcuz a fellowman is granted deferment
It makes the entire system stiff
if he got a position in the states
and return back to serve Ns
Its a winwin
Singapore gain art and cultural regconition
while the violinist return to serve[suppose he will come back]
It benifits both parties