Violinist not allowed to defer NS
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with regards to thisOriginally posted by iveco:If he gets into MDC when he returns from his musical course, those who served in $hitty combat posts will only feel jealous.
it concerns wif how the government look at the violinist isnt it?
It no longer concerns the violinist anymore as he kept part of his bargain -
But the government is scared he will not return. THat is the main problem. They have little faith in their citizens.Originally posted by olala:It depends on how far u wan it t be?
We're all singaporean
and shldnt we be gracious to our fellow nationaman?
Lets juz say after his postition in the united states
he has the interrity to return and serve his NS
In my eye,its already equality
That said in the fact that he kept his part of the bargain
and wuld serve Ns no matter what
We shldnt be whinning about juz bcuz a fellowman is granted deferment
It makes the entire system stiff
if he got a position in the states
and return back to serve Ns
Its a winwin
Singapore gain art and cultural regconition
while the violinist return to serve[suppose he will come back]
It benifits both parties
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I'm sure they can initial a sign contract or something right?Originally posted by iveco:But the government is scared he will not return. THat is the main problem. They have little faith in their citizens.
this way the violinsit will b make to kept his part of bargain
but even if the violionist was to keep his part of the bargain,i feel there r many sgrean who'll feel unsatisfied bcuz of the speacial deferment
it's all in the heart of sngaporean to feel unhappy even if he were to return -
The Mervyn Tan case is still fresh in their minds, I guess.Originally posted by olala:I'm sure they can initial a sign contract or something right?
this way the violinsit will b make to kept his part of bargain -
I think should be good cause like the MM Lee mentioned prectice what u learn.Originally posted by iveco:If he gets into MDC when he returns from his musical course, those who served in $hitty combat posts will only feel jealous.
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I roughly get the idea of what u are putting across. But everyone are talented in their own niche. So how to justify who gets to defer? You may suggest on the mean test system and stipulating terms and conditions like a one-time deposit but will a talented poor man's son be able to fork this amount in the first place?Originally posted by olala:It depends on how far u wan it t be?
We're all singaporean
and shldnt we be gracious to our fellow nationaman?
Lets juz say after his postition in the united states
he has the interrity to return and serve his NS
In my eye,its already equality
That said in the fact that he kept his part of the bargain
and wuld serve Ns no matter what
We shldnt be whinning about juz bcuz a fellowman is granted deferment
It makes the entire system stiff
if he got a position in the states
and return back to serve Ns
Its a winwin
Singapore gain art and cultural regconition
while the violinist return to serve[suppose he will come back]
It benifits both parties
Another point of issue is the case of Pianist Melvyn, there is certainly no way to measure whether a man would gladly returned to serve his motherland if the offer at the other side of the pasture is more enticing, more than the deposit he placed. Monetary value aside, isnt it socially logical for any talents whom are on the verge of success to push further onto international stage, ie to strike while the iron is hot than to make a U-turn? How many would risk giving up something so close on achieving by coming back to serve faithfully after the legal deferment contract ends? If so, do they formed the majority? Even so, will they served half-heartedly? What happen if the majority break contract? Does it show money can buy freedom? Will it be fair to others who served? Obviously a risk is at play here. Instead of creating an environment of citizenry inequality, upsets by the risks involved, how about turning the tide around and enforce equality and fairness to each and everyone.
Without a doubt, the rigidity of this system however stringent it may seem, bring about social equality among fellow Singaporeans. We, regardless of family backgrounds, diversive of talents, ethnic groups or religions, luck or fate are all born and raise here. It is this common destiny, the obligation to the nation that we all share, that make us similar or brothers-in-arms not a system tilted in favour of the talented - Without fear or favour.
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I think others just want the kid to make their job easy.
Kid, as you have what it takes to succeed, GO FOR IT. Your destiny is not in NS first.
Or you'll regret like Ang Peng Siong.
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make his parents sign contract lor, son don't come back for ns both parents must go to jail
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that was what i meantOriginally posted by vito_corleone:make his parents sign contract lor, son don't come back for ns both parents must go to jail -
Err...how many 18-year-old kids here listen to their parents?Originally posted by vito_corleone:make his parents sign contract lor, son don't come back for ns both parents must go to jail -
I think he has to make a choice that all of us has had to make when enlistment time came. I do not see why he should get exemption just because he can play the violin.
MAN UP AND DECIDE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! -
You got my support on that view. If he is talented, he will be able to find his own opportunities after NS. While the same opportunity may not knock twice, if he is determined to study music, he will find his own path. If the opportunity does not seek him, then he should take the proactive role to create his own opportunities.Originally posted by lwflee:I think he has to make a choice that all of us has had to make when enlistment time came. I do not see why he should get exemption just because he can play the violin.
MAN UP AND DECIDE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!
If most of us can go back to school after our NS, why can't a musician? During NS, he can choose to practise over the weekend to maintain his violin proficiency
The main point of discontent is that for those who have served or are currently serving NS is that since the law has been tightened to disallow anymore deferment, why should he be given special treatment? For many of us, we too have our share of missed opportunities, but still we served and moved on in our life.
Let's assume that if this Ike is given leave to study music before he comes back and serve NS. What is the guarantee that he will come back? Can anyone ensure that? It might be no big deal to SAF if Ike decided to skip town and play music, but it sure pissed me off badly, that I have to do his share of protecting his parents, dogs and cats while he is at it. To the arts loving people, Ike may be the next music star, but to an old boor like me, I prefer an additional man to the SAF orbat for any emergencies. -
let me ask one thing...
if the violinist was the son of, say, Lee Hsien Loong...
what would be your stand?Originally posted by HENG@:equality NOT at the expense of social progress.
but i guess thats too much to ask for. Equality can only be had without damage to social progress if the people in charge aren't paranoid, power-hungry, and only give a damn about themselves.
and to yr question, yes. if American Chopper is going to educate u, why not? Whats so hard about that sort of equality?
Oh i know u're going to talk about how our military might will take a hit. Technically, if EVERYONE who defers, returns, then it shouldn't have a detrimental impact on our military strength.
The thing is, people must have integrity and return to serve. The "hard" part of acheiving a good positive sort of equality, is how to ensure people have that sort of integrity and honour to return. If our people are that dishonest to begin with, that if a policy allowing anyone who wishes to defer for the purpose of any sort of education to defer, will harm our nation's overall military strength, then im not so sure that if they're needed to fight, they won't all be deserting anyway. -
i couldn't care less about playing any musical instrument. however, in this case, apparently the boy has a rare talent and has been offered a very rare opportunity. he might not get the same chance later, so let him go.
whether he returns or not so be it, no point making the parents pay or whatsoever. in life there are no quarantees, no one knows how things will turn out. let him seize his opportunity and not be bogged down by some policy just to appease others, unless everyone else plays the violin too. if he were a girl, this would be a non-issue to start with, so recognise his talent for what it is.
there's no need to habour envy or be vindictive with someone else success. what comes around goes around, quid quo pro. -
I don't know about others, but I don't habour envy and neither am I bitter about his maybe possible future success. For me the stand is clear, nobody should be more equal than others when it comes to serving NS. If the violin boy gets his deferment, then ain't we back to square one that people with "special" talents gets the special treatment? This ain't animal farm whereby "four legs good, two legs better" motto applies here.Originally posted by countdracula:i couldn't care less about playing any musical instrument. however, in this case, apparently the boy has a rare talent and has been offered a very rare opportunity. he might not get the same chance later, so let him go.
whether he returns or not so be it, no point making the parents pay or whatsoever. in life there are no quarantees, no one knows how things will turn out. let him seize his opportunity and not be bogged down by some policy just to appease others, unless everyone else plays the violin too. if he were a girl, this would be a non-issue to start with, so recognise his talent for what it is.
there's no need to habour envy or be vindictive with someone else success. what comes around goes around, quid quo pro.
This may be a rare opportunity for him. However, as mentioned in my earlier post, if he is really determined to stay in the music field, he should be looking for other opportunities not wait for the opportunity to look for him. A true talent will always be good at what he is, regardless of the passing of time or opportunity. If his talent can't stand the test of time, then surely it must make you wonder how true is his talent? -
Please lah. Can the violinist create 100Million annually for us. Else go and serve his national service. Just because of one string puller, wanted to bend our law..You kidding us.
Go and serve else charge him AWOL. Got 3 bar for him to pull inside. -
read orwell's animal farm again, it's about oppression not about disparity in talents. the boy sought for that opportunity more than once, it didn't come to him easily. the likes of bill gates and other mavericks broke out of the convention to get to where they are. fact of life is that there are differences and we cannot forcibly put everyone in the same mould.
galileo was a sad case, he correctly theorised that the world was round but the church and state insisted otherwise. so he recanted and everyone was 'equal', so what?
we apply different grades to people of different abilities and this is no different. the opportunity is rare and he should be allowed to seize it. -
Our minister of defence faces headaches like these, sometimes he wishes the opposition would just win his ward and he can step down by default.
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He also can go after serving NS.Originally posted by king108: Please lah. Can the violinist create 100Million annually for us. Else go and serve his national service. Just because of one string puller, wanted to bend our law..You kidding us.
Go and serve else charge him AWOL. Got 3 bar for him to pull inside. 
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If the dude dun default on his NS then I dun see any reasons why deferment is not possible. If the gov is so "on" about the arts then I am believe something can be work out.
But the dude also must wake up, this is an imperfect and unfair world. No one really gets what he wants 100% of the time so if the final outcome is no deferment then take and serve. Dun need to whine to the newspaper or complain about it.
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We can't go on importing and serving foreign talent when we keep shooting down our own local talent and making them serve the country to make it conducive for foreign talents to come.
Why are we so silly?
If one of us has the calibre to be a world-class talent and opportunity only comes by once, why are we holding him back?
Let's support the kid and let him defer and make it known to him that we hope to welcome him back as a superstar in NS.
If the kid decides to abdicate his citizenship because we refuse and impede his pursuits, the real loser is Singapore.
We need to treat our exceptional and rare local talent with exceptional nurturing treatment. Harsh treatment will only make them leave.
And what do we have on our soil? World-class facilities but full of foreign talents. That is so pathetic. -
Yea how many have the chance to be world class sia? How many actually fit to be in this catagory? Singapore should be more flexible in this.... I am wonder how come community service like becoming a monk or Priest can exempt NS and ICT and not world class talent? It's the person future I say go for it. How many in the whole corhort of NSF fits into the category anyway. I think less than 10? or even 5....
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In short let us singaporean b gracious
and allow our naitonaman who has the talent to carve his path to sucess!
I knwo many guys who went thro ns wifout deferment are angry,i too hate going ns but...
lets b ppl who sit back and relac!
If the violionlist dosent return back to serve his Ns,where wuld his intergrity be?
so no matter how sucessful a person he might b,if he dosent have intergrity and uphodl his promise,then he hasn't gone far in terms of human charecter
I tink mnay wuld agree on this -
does that apply to those who have only applied previously for deferment for a basic degree, and decide after they graduate that they want to do another post-grad?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:For almost a decade or more, medical students are not allowed to defer automatically. Those who are medically fit and have performed well enough during BMT to make it to Officers Cadet School are allowed to defer for local studies so that SAF will have a supply of cheap medical officers. Perhaps if the SAF thinks it is just as critical to have a cheap violinist in the army, it may allow this exception
PSC scholars are no longer allowed to defer following the new legislation. Those who have applied and have been granted deferment previously obviously will be allowed to carry on.
It is time to plug the loophole in our system as I have urged the government to do and I am glad that has come about. The bear is right: so this chap has to forgo this great opportunity for the time being, but so did numerous others over the years.
loophole schumack. equality at the cost of social progress. its nice to know we're sliding backwards. its plain stupidity. -
right. so whats wrong with a deferment?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:National service is compulsory. Hardly anyone would volunteer to give up two of their prime years to serve in the army. As such, it must be applied equally to all or the system will fail.
Those who have not served are in no position and lack the moral platform even to comment.
are u accusing singaporeans of being dishonourable people without integrity?
nobody is saying, "take this guy out of ns". we're just saying, "why can't he serve it 2 or 3 years later?"
and i would also like to point out: assumption is the mother of all screw-ups. then again, knowing u and how PAP supportive u are, its no wonder u commit the same cardinal sin as they do.