IT TOOKS THE LEES AND PAP 30YEARS TO DESTORY J B JEYARETNAM
-
taking a good analogy, we vaccinate ourselves from certain illness and diseases by injecting ourselves with small doses of that disease. Imagine someone who's spent their entire life cooped up within a virus and bacteria free "clean room". the moment they step into normal atmosphere, they are basically given the death sentence.Originally posted by LazerLordz:When you make a place sterile, you kill yourself eventually, because you are not exposed to the rough and tumble of the world.
Look at the competitiveness of our GLCs abroad.. hogwash, the whole load of them. -
Just think about it....
So, what flavour for your maggi mee dear citizen?
We have new improved Sesame Chili!Try it today!
...still the damned old instant noodle pack.They think the new flavour is a change, but its just a superficial coating.No nutrients in it at all..
give me my real food anyday, damn the lack fo laboratory cleanliness.
And no, artificial dirt and smoke don't count.
-
I'm not sure about GLCs, but I do know that Singaporeans are respected amongst the international communities and within recruiting firms. We are expected to be hardworkers and assets to our communities. Thats why so many of them are recruited by the top investment banks and consulting firms, at least those that do not return on bond to their respective statutory boards.
But I see your point. There is admittedly more that can be done for the arts scene and as you mentioned, the unconventionally talented. Yet just as one last disclaimer, it must also be noted that Singapore did focus on the one thing that allowed us the basis to aspire for all these additional "wants". A strong economic base.
But as another poster mentioned, I'll "gam lah." I see the good points while marginalizing the bad, and the majority of the posters here adopt an opposite view.
Good luck on motorsporting abroad Heng, you don't see many Singaporeans guys abroad taking such a risky career move and I envy your adventurism although I'll still stick to a more conventional path for myself. Different strokes for different folks. -
guy? why the heck does everyone assume im a guy???Originally posted by kivichio:I'm not sure about GLCs, but I do know that Singaporeans are respected amongst the international communities and within recruiting firms. We are expected to be hardworkers and assets to our communities. Thats why so many of them are recruited by the top investment banks and consulting firms, at least those that do not return on bond to their respective statutory boards.
But I see your point. There is admittedly more that can be done for the arts scene and as you mentioned, the unconventionally talented. Yet just as one last disclaimer, it must also be noted that Singapore did focus on the one thing that allowed us the basis to aspire for all these additional "wants". A strong economic base.
But as another poster mentioned, I'll "gam lah." I see the good points while marginalizing the bad, and the majority of the posters here adopt an opposite view.
Good luck on motorsporting abroad Heng, you don't see many Singaporeans guys abroad taking such a risky career move and I envy your adventurism although I'll still stick to a more conventional path for myself. Different strokes for different folks.
but thanks all the same i guess.
u know though, that the same focus originally developed to help singapore become economically stable has now become a fight to hoard power. And that very fight is what makes them disregard and even fear anyone who comes to the fore outside of the system. Its not even just the unconventionally talented. How often do u see someone who chooses not to take a scholarship be offered the same opportunities offered to a scholar? Academic results are but one aspect of talent. There are many brilliant people out there who simply have no interest in a purely academic pursuit to life. Britain's Head of Mensa is a lorry driver. Basically, in singapore, taking up a scholarship means signing your life away. So I really don't see why one shouldn't be allowed to "become" an elite simply because they're rising up outside the system.
anyways, marginalizing the bad is not necessary a good thing. i think it makes the people in charge and the system complacent. There are always improvements to the system which can be made. -
Originally posted by kivichio:
I tend to see LKY skills as political animal. LKY as a shrewed politician played a big role in gaining power and fighting political enemies in unstable times.
[b]Should we pay Goh Keng Swee or Lim Kim San more than LKY - as all in the LKY Cabinet know that LKY is a 'dreamer' with his vision, while Goh Keng Swee and Lim Kim San is able to translate their 'dreams into actions' ?
I think very few people would characterize LKY as a dreamer and not a doer. The two other politicians while respectable, go nowhere close to the former in terms of what they have done for Singapore. I feel that you would have to agree with that.
[/b]
His political skills still can be seen now like the "GRC concept or HDB updrading threats"
But in terms of development, i dont think he played a big role as remarked by old Guard Lim Kim San. Much was the development like creating EDB,DBS,JTC,SAF - the key institutions was done by Goh Keng Swee that help ed propelled Singapore to a first world nation.
Those who call Goh Keng Swee "merely a good civil servant" by misintepreting Raja are doing injustice to him.
All these men are part of the jig-saw puzzle. Its definitely not "the no LKY no Singapore" propaganda perpetuated by "states times". -
Quoted from the Singapore New Premier (by Alan Chong)
From Goh Chok Tong “The sort of ideal opposition is those that do not seek electoral support on the basic of falsehoods and false promises.
Their purpose, once in parliament, should not be to tear the government down, when they agree with certain policies, they must say so.
If the government makes a mistake, then they should criticize it. And they must be in a position to justify why they think it is a mistake” -
Originally posted by babymac13:
Ideals are Ideals.... If you look at the current election, you know how dirty politics is. If you take a few quotes from LKY on his view on politics, what ideals are left?
Quoted from the Singapore New Premier (by Alan Chong)
From Goh Chok Tong “The sort of [b]ideal opposition is those that do not seek electoral support on the basic of falsehoods and false promises.
Their purpose, once in parliament, should not be to tear the government down, when they agree with certain policies, they must say so.
If the government makes a mistake, then they should criticize it. And they must be in a position to justify why they think it is a mistake”
[/b]
the ideal press should also give fair coverage to opposition. The ideal state should not play unfair politics by denying opposition wards from national services and funds. -
Please don't call LKY a political animal, although I must admit he's shrewed in politics. He just has his own temperament and character that is quite different from the former PMs (Goh and Lee). At his time, he need to affiarmative and decisive to build Singapore from scatch. Over the years, that's his character and it's not easy to for him to change and maybe unacceptable for some of us to accept his exceptional style. Please give him some credits.Originally posted by kilua:I tend to see LKY skills as political animal. LKY as a shrewed politician played a big role in gaining power and fighting political enemies in unstable times. -
sure. I give Hitler some credits too, so why shouldn't I give LKY some credits?Originally posted by babymac13:Please don't call LKY a political animal, although I must admit he's shrewed in politics. He just has his own temperament and character that is quite different from the former PMs (Goh and Lee). At his time, he need to affiarmative and decisive to build Singapore from scatch. Over the years, that's his character and it's not easy to for him to change and maybe unacceptable for some of us to accept his exceptional style. Please give him some credits. -
I think most countries will not give total freedom to the press. Imagine by allowing the Press to criticise other countries freely, what are the consequent?Originally posted by kilua:Ideals are Ideals.... If you look at the current election, you know how dirty politics is. If you take a few quotes from LKY on his view on politics, what ideals are left?
Are you referring to LKY calling Gomez a liar, making that issue a mole out of a mountain? Well, that's part and parcel of politics, but I don't think Gomez had gave a clear and convincing explaination for his action.
Or are you referring to LKY for suing CSJ and CSC? Well, in my view, they have make some baseless assumptions that resulted this law suit.
Maybe you guys may not accept my point of view, but this is only what I believe.
the ideal press should also give fair coverage to opposition. The ideal state should not play unfair politics by denying opposition wards from national services and funds.
Correct me if i'm wrong.
Quoted from Alan Chong on why our Press in Singapore was so tightly controlled?
"The government wants a well-informed Press. But the Press must understand the direction of the nation, what keep it alive and going." -
Originally posted by kivichio:
You should refer to the thread "Goh Keng Swee - the true architect of Singapore" in which the following was stated :
Should we pay Goh Keng Swee or Lim Kim San more than LKY - as all in the LKY Cabinet know that LKY is a 'dreamer' with his vision, while Goh Keng Swee and Lim Kim San is able to translate their 'dreams into actions' ?
I think very few people would characterize LKY as a dreamer and not a doer. The two other politicians while respectable, go nowhere close to the former in terms of what they have done for Singapore. I feel that you would have to agree with that.Posted by kilua : 18 May 2006 - 10.40PM
Maybe You might want to hear what Old Guard Lim Kim San had to say about LKY.
http://www.singapore-window.org/sw00/001205aw.htm
But bottom line, what does Lim really think of his old mate, Lee Kuan Yew? Some whisper that Lim, like other "old guard" leaders Toh Chin Chye, Ong Pang Boon, Jek Yeun Thong and Devan Nair, is sour toward Lee for the way he always insisted on being No. 1. The talk goes that Lee was lucky to catapult straight into the premiership since it suited his talent for oratory, vision, and strategic thinking. Had he needed to deal with the nuts and bolts of running a specific ministry, he might have come a cropper. If Lim shares this view, he keeps it to himself. Publicly, he says that without Lee's leadership, Singapore "would probably be like a third-world country now."
crop·per2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (krpr)
n.
A heavy fall; a tumble.
A disastrous failure; a fiasco.
Was Lim Kim San being polite to address LKY being suited for "his talent for oratory, vision, and strategic thinking "- which in more derogatory terms will probably mean NATO - "No Action, Talk Only ".
Will the truth ever be known ?
The statement made was not intended for you to be paid the low salary of the Guangzhou worker; but it had asked if you will be willing to pay the Guangzhou worker the same salary as the Singaporean worker ?
Will you pay a Chinese worker in Guangzhou the same salary of a Singapore Worker ?
No and thank god for that since I wouldn't want to be getting the wages of a GuangZhou worker. I still don't follow your line of reasoning here. Again, as asked previously, are you insisting for a lower wage rate?
Based on the Standard and Cost of Living in Guangzhou, the Guangzhou worker will find the wages paid more then sufficient based on his local Guangzhou conditions, even though the wages are lower than the Singapore Worker.
Similarly, based on the Standard and Cost of Living in Singapore, the wages of the Elite should be pegged accordingly to match local Singapore conditions; and not arbitrarilly based on a basket of wages paid to some Western Corporate Leaders in the First World Corporate.
The Western Wage Levels has been designed for the conditions that exist in their society.
Can there be any relevance for the Singapore Elite to peg their remunerations based on the amounts paid to Elites from the Western Countries - other then a creative reason to justify the release of National Reserves to pay their high wages ?
Is this not corruption by legislation ?
Good luck to Tony Blair, George Bush Jr, and the various national leaders of the other countries in the European Community.
Are we implying that other National Government Leaders - who are paid less than our Singaporean Elitist Leaderships - are more susceptible to corruption ?
Yes. A definite yes. And I'll state it once more for emphasis: YES:
Are we not comparing the measurable aspects between leaders so as to justify the high wages paid ?
By the way, you will be surprised that the annual performance of a SINGLE US Private Corporation can be larger than the Singapore Economy - do the Singapore Leadership deserve to be paid such high salaries that are equal to that of the US Corporate Leader ?
Very, very few companies do have control of more finances than Singapore, bearing in mind our vast reserves and annual GDP. We are not a third world economy due to the vision of certain individuals [hint, hint]. And I doubt any company executive is reponsible for over 3 million individuals.
Based on your opinion, surely you are not suggesting that the high wages are justifiable due to the vast reserves and annual GDP ?
China today has a national reserves that is much larger than Singapore's, yet to the credit of its leaders, they have refused to accept LKY's philosophy of high wages will prevent corruption.
If Singapore is to be compared to a First World Country, then Finland - with her incorruptible and not so highly paid Civil Servants - will put the Singapore 'High Paying Civil Servants' to shame.
If an aging population is an inevitable byproduct of increasing affluence, what about the vast number of aged that also exist in China, India and also in the various not-so-affluent countries of Africa and Latin America ?
Our current lopsided ageing issue is due largely to the Family Policies of the 1960s and 1970s.
Again as stated previously, you equate all blame to the government. An aging population is an inevitable byproduct of increasing affluence.
Surely, you must be joking to compare the affluent Singaporean with the Americans in the USA and the Europeans in the Euro Community ?
Can we compare our affluence to that of the Americans in the USA, or the Europeans in the Euro Community ?
Definitely yes. The discrepancy between the haves and have-nots are also much less severe than the US.
What basis do you make such a comparison ?
Can Singapore with a population of 4.5 Million send more students to overseas tertiary level of educations, when compared to Malaysia with a population of 24 Million ?
A Malaysian Executive paid RM50,000 could probably stretch his salary to buy a bungalow house (at about the same price that we pay a 5-room HDB); and spend on monthly food for a family of five at HALF the amount that we pay for ours; and with enough left to send two kids to an overseas tertiary institution.
I would debate your statistics. In the US tertiary institutes at least, you will find a much higher representation of Singaporean students rather than Malaysian students. RM50,000 is a real stretch for affording two kids overseas, unless you're talking about somewhere other than Australia, US, Canada, or the UK.
Perhaps the following site will settle your statistical comparison of the number of Malaysian students going overseas for tertiary education - to overcome the discriminatory quota system that seems to favor one ethnic race over the others despite the poor qualification ?