Upgrading for all wards, but PAP ones first.
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NATIONAL Development Minister Mah Bow Tan has come out to clear the air on the upgrading of opposition wards, saying that their lifts will be upgraded by 2015 at the latest, but PAP wards will still get priority.
His comments will surprise those who thought that the policy of upgrading PAP wards first was ripe for change, after the ruling party failed to win back Hougang and Potong Pasir at the recent polls despite offering $180 million in improvement works for the two ageing estates.
After the election results on May 7, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said the People's Action Party (PAP) would have to review its strategy in the opposition wards.
But in an interview with The Sunday Times on Friday, Mr Mah made it clear that this review would not affect the policy of giving lift upgrading priority to PAP wards. 'There is no change, that policy still remains. We've looked at it and we believe that that is still something we have to do,' he said.
Giving PAP wards priority does not mean that the Government intends to deprive opposition wards of upgrading, he added, although this point might have been lost in 'the heat and the noise of the elections'.
The Government has pledged that by 2015, all HDB blocks will have lifts that stop on every floor, with the exception of a small number of blocks whose designs make such works too costly.
Mr Mah said this includes blocks in opposition wards.
'We intend to honour this commitment, 2015, all eligible blocks will have their lifts upgraded,' he said.
The ramping up of the lift upgrading programme means a close to two-fold increase in the national upgrading budget over the next few years, to between $500 million and $600 million per financial year.
About 130 blocks in Hougang and Potong Pasir are eligible for improved lifts but they are not the oldest blocks to have gone without upgrading.
Mr Mah said about 800 blocks in PAP wards are as old or older and have not been upgraded at all. They are located in areas such as Queenstown, Bukit Merah, Tiong Bahru, Marine Parade, Serangoon, Woodlands, Marsiling, Yishun and Kampung Ubi.
'I can't put the opposition blocks at the head of the queue, ahead of these 800. Surely not,' he said.
To select precincts for upgrading, the ministry uses three criteria: the age of the blocks, the geographical spread to ensure upgrading is not concentrated in only a few constituencies and support for the Government.
While acknowledging that many thought it unfair to link votes to upgrading, Mr Mah defended the policy as 'not unreasonable'.
He said the massive and costly upgrading programme was only possible because of the Government's policies, which generated economic growth and the Budget surpluses needed to fund it.
And these policies could only be implemented if the Government received the people's mandate.
'We really need to be fair to the people who voted for the PAP candidate. Upgrading has been a major election platform for the PAP and those who support the PAP candidate expect their MPs to deliver on their promises.'
This news article is extracted from THE SUNDAY TIMES of 11th june 2006. Do you feel his decision is fair for Singaporean? -
Upgrading should be prioritised according to requirement i.e. the state of the facilities in the ward, not political affiliation. By sticking to the policy of upgrading PAP wards before opposition ones, the ruling party is just reinforcing the notion that they do not play fair. This will do them no favours in the next election.
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You are half correct. Well, I was kind of expecting PAP to play an angel role this time by allowing the opposition wards to be upgraded first until the news took me by surprise. But in closer examination, I think the policy of 'upgrading for all wards, but PAP ones first', is a fair one. There is no denial of upgrading for opposition wards but or rather to shelf it to a later date. The eventually outcome is that ALL will get upgrading benefits. This does not violate the one people, one nation or social equailty framework. Beside, how you expect PAP to answer to her supporters who casted the vote for them? Someone mentioned before that we are master of our MPs, now I want my MP to upgrade my estate first not opposition!...Originally posted by dakkon_blackblade:Upgrading should be prioritised according to requirement i.e. the state of the facilities in the ward, not political affiliation. By sticking to the policy of upgrading PAP wards before opposition ones, the ruling party is just reinforcing the notion that they do not play fair. This will do them no favours in the next election.
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thought they learned the lesson and understood that the upgrading funds are from the coffers and ppl taxes. seems their MPs and Ministar cannot agree on this matter.
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Based on Technical Analysis, the PAP popularity is on a downtrend...
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I believe that there is a serious need of examing what the upgrading is about.
If it is lift for every floor, then it is reasonable.
But, if the upgrading is about changing the garden and hacking down stone bench without back support as a reason, then the money can be better saved.
If the basic facilities in the oppostion ward such as spoiled walkway need to be mended, it have to be done.
Mah commented that he got the WRONG feedback from his MPs and his survey about what the people want.
I think he take a serious look on whether the data is updated or his MPs have done their job at all.
Another questions is that Mr Mah, being a MP himself, is meeting his people every week so why did he have to RELY on his MPs on what people want ??? -
as Minister of National Development, he should place the program in a needs-based system, based on the age and the demographics of the estates, not political support.Originally posted by Medicated Oil:I believe that there is a serious need of examing what the upgrading is about.
If it is lift for every floor, then it is reasonable.
But, if the upgrading is about changing the garden and hacking down stone bench without back support as a reason, then the money can be better saved.
If the basic facilities in the oppostion ward such as spoiled walkway need to be mended, it have to be done.
Mah commented that he got the WRONG feedback from his MPs and his survey about what the people want.
I think he take a serious look on whether the data is updated or his MPs have done their job at all.
Another questions is that Mr Mah, being a MP himself, is meeting his people every week so why did he have to RELY on his MPs on what people want ???
This is municipal housing, and it is about correcting as design flaw or a compromised decision in the past. -
One country, 2 systems. PP and HG residents should be exempt from paying tax till lift upgrading comes to their areas.
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People in the wards are not consider singaporean, maybe they should not paid taxes at all. Really dun understand, why must Pap Ward go first instead of those oppisation.. How many block have been upgraded in the PaP "Wards" liao... How about the opposition "Wards"
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GCT already described them as "slums". Doubt anyone wants their home to be described as "slums".Originally posted by zheshi:People in the wards are not consider singaporean, maybe they should not paid taxes at all. Really dun understand, why must Pap Ward go first instead of those oppisation.. How many block have been upgraded in the PaP "Wards" liao... How about the opposition "Wards" -
I would like the government to set out a time table for the upgrading programme for all constituencies, rather than a vague statement that they will upgrade all estates.
As for priority, everyone wants to be first. I would think that priority should go to the oldest estates that are in most urgent need of upgrading. Following that, all things being equal, PAP eseates should have priority. -
double post
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Remember all the upgrading promise made in May.
Will they be fulfiled ?
That is for the people to find out.
There will never be any timetable as they dunno what is the oldest area.
Who will bother to find out ?
Who will bother to track ?
Just like the restoring the CPF rate.
It will be empty cheque which will never be cashed. -
The ministers would tell the citizens in their meet-the-people sessions that they are fair and they practise no discrimination on race, religion, creeds or political beliefs.
Now they can say to the citizens in these meet-the-people sessions that the national pledge about one-people-one-nation and staying together moving ahead means : "vote PAP" so that they will get to be served first and have their estate upgrading done first.
They can tell their citizens that the constitution has spelt out their rights and not to worry as they will have equality of rights and there will be no discrimination based on race, sex, status or political belief etc.
Now in view of the latest policy of the government it means we have two types of citizens - one group who voted for ruling party who will get their estate upgrading without delay and another group who may not get upgrading that soon but will get their upgrading anyway.
That means the group that belong to the 33.3 % who did not vote for the ruling party will have to come up with their own upgrading plan so as not to fall into delays or have some reason stated for not upgrading such as "too physically difficult but not impossible to upgrade due to design of the block.
The second group of citizens may have to look after their interest such as lobbying to pay their taxes or service and conservancy charges to town council last since they will get upgrading last. But they must like Minister Mah has said pay the tax exce=pt that they will pay last. -
Is it any surprise that the govt would act vaguely when it suits them?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I would like the government to set out a time table for the upgrading programme for all constituencies, rather than a vague statement that they will upgrade all estates.
As for priority, everyone wants to be first. I would think that priority should go to the oldest estates that are in most urgent need of upgrading. Following that, all things being equal, PAP eseates should have priority.
There was never any plan to 'promise' anything to residents of alternative held wards, certainly not an upgrading 'schedule' of any sort.
Mah Bow Tan should have his brain checked if he thinks comments on his election walkabout will translate to post-mortem findings....people say one thing and vote at a tangent to what they say. Did it ever occur to him that residents only gerrymanded by telling him what he wanted to hear rather than the sad and embarrassing truth?
Like PM LHL said, post-election, 'let's close ranks and move as one'. This hardly constitutes proof to that statement. -
And PAP estates should have priority because.......... ?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I would like the government to set out a time table for the upgrading programme for all constituencies, rather than a vague statement that they will upgrade all estates.
As for priority, everyone wants to be first. I would think that priority should go to the oldest estates that are in most urgent need of upgrading. Following that, all things being equal, PAP eseates should have priority.
As I keep telling my tuition student, if I have to fill in the blanks for you, then you have just given an incomplete answer. An incomplete answer leads to deduction of marks. So I cannot give you full credit for your answer.
Estate upgrading comes from taxes, not from PAP coffers. Potong Pasir and Hougang residents pay their taxes as much as everyone else does. So why, pray tell, should opposition residents be treated differently? Why should PAP try to influence the outcome of the vote with money THAT TECHNICALLY ISN'T THEIRS TO BEGIN WITH?
Unless of course, if you're telling me that PAP==Singapore, and that anything to do with the opposition isn't Singaporean. But if that's the case, then Potong Pasir and Hougang residents should be exempt from paying taxes since they're being treated as lower class than Singaporeans.
If this is the best that you can come up with, then I highly doubt your skills at holding and winning an argument.
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Originally posted by fudgester:Estate upgrading comes from taxes, not from PAP coffers. Potong Pasir and Hougang residents pay their taxes as much as everyone else does. So why, pray tell, should opposition residents be treated differently? Why should PAP try to influence the outcome of the vote with money THAT TECHNICALLY ISN'T THEIRS TO BEGIN WITH?
Unless of course, if you're telling me that PAP==Singapore, and that anything to do with the opposition isn't Singaporean. But if that's the case, then Potong Pasir and Hougang residents should be exempt from paying taxes since they're being treated as lower class than Singaporeans. -
PAP does represent Singapore. They have the majority in parliament. They can literally pass any policy they like. The opposition does not support the PAP so why will u want to help someone who will not support u? As they are the government they shld. One will always put the thing they dislike most to the last. Tax payer's money are in their control so why not use it to their best agenda?Originally posted by fudgester:Estate upgrading comes from taxes, not from PAP coffers. Potong Pasir and Hougang residents pay their taxes as much as everyone else does. So why, pray tell, should opposition residents be treated differently? Why should PAP try to influence the outcome of the vote with money THAT TECHNICALLY ISN'T THEIRS TO BEGIN WITH?
Unless of course, if you're telling me that PAP==Singapore, and that anything to do with the opposition isn't Singaporean. But if that's the case, then Potong Pasir and Hougang residents should be exempt from paying taxes since they're being treated as lower class than Singaporeans. -
She is only a 17 year-old student but she started a petition-on-line to get people to support petition to help Potong Pasir and Hougang residents get their upgrading.
Visit: http://i-speak.blogdrive.com/ -
Fudgester, don't you read the papers and follow the arguments, even if you disagree with them?
PAP estates deserve to be upgraded first because this project was mooted by the government, not by Opposition Parties who actually were against it at the time. Do your research -
In the first place, why should HDB Estates be defined as PAP estates and Opposition Estates ?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Fudgester, don't you read the papers and follow the arguments, even if you disagree with them?
PAP estates deserve to be upgraded first because this project was mooted by the government, not by Opposition Parties who actually were against it at the time. Do your research
Are all the HDB Estates not designed and built by HDB Corporation ?
Until the setting up of Town Councils, was it not true that the HDB Estates were all managed by HDB and with no differentiation of PAP or Opposition Estates ?
Have you made a statement by not understanding the position of the Opposition Parties - with regards to their objection to the HDB Upgrading Program ?
What were the reasons for the Opposition Parties "objecting" to the PAP idea of Upgrading of HDB Estates ?
1. HDB Estates have a lease of 99 years, and most of the HDB Estates were already deteriorating at an early age of 30 years. This reflect the poor quality in design, poor choice of building materials, and poor project and construction management - all of which had a net effect of HDB Flats requiring upgrading within 30 years, compared to Private Housing.
2. If the Upgrading Exercise is necessary for a 30 year old flat, which is caused by HDB poor design, project and construction management, the Opposition Parties felt that it was not correct that the HDB Dwellers were to be expected to co-share in the cost for such improvement works to be made.
3. This Upgrading Programme was politicised, when it was made dependent on HDB Dwellers voting for such a programme - by electing the Candidate from the incumbent political party as an endorsement for such a programme mooted by the Party.
In a report on the [url=http://profile.nus.edu.sg/fass/geokongl/tsehse.pdf][b]Public Housing in Singapore : Interpreting "Quality" in the 1990s - organised by Assoc Professor Teo Siew Eng from the Department of Geography, NUS - it was mentioned on Page 5 that - "In July 1989, the government announced a formal, large scale S$15 billion programme to upgrade existing HDB estates.... The project was to last 15 years and would affect 95 per cent of HDB dwellers" .
Since July 1989, more then 15 years have passed us by, and the 95 per cent target have yet to be achieved; and now Mah Bow Tan had grandly stated that - "the Lifts in the Opposition Wards will get upgraded by 2015 - at the latest ".
Was Mah being generous with Tax Payers' Money, including those living in Opposition held constituencies and also paying their dues ? -
You're sure that he personally meets people weekly? My footOriginally posted by Medicated Oil:I believe that there is a serious need of examing what the upgrading is about.
If it is lift for every floor, then it is reasonable.
But, if the upgrading is about changing the garden and hacking down stone bench without back support as a reason, then the money can be better saved.
If the basic facilities in the oppostion ward such as spoiled walkway need to be mended, it have to be done.
Mah commented that he got the WRONG feedback from his MPs and his survey about what the people want.
I think he take a serious look on whether the data is updated or his MPs have done their job at all.
Another questions is that Mr Mah, being a MP himself, is meeting his people every week so why did he have to RELY on his MPs on what people want ??? -
GCT mentioned the Upgrading or the lifts installations that stop at every floor would be implemented immedaitely if the two oppositions wards were to vote for PAP.Originally posted by robertteh:The ministers would tell the citizens in their meet-the-people sessions that they are fair and they practise no discrimination on race, religion, creeds or political beliefs.
Now they can say to the citizens in these meet-the-people sessions that the national pledge about one-people-one-nation and staying together moving ahead means : "vote PAP" so that they will get to be served first and have their estate upgrading done first.
They can tell their citizens that the constitution has spelt out their rights and not to worry as they will have equality of rights and there will be no discrimination based on race, sex, status or political belief etc.
Now in view of the latest policy of the government it means we have two types of citizens - one group who voted for ruling party who will get their estate upgrading without delay and another group who may not get upgrading that soon but will get their upgrading anyway.
That means the group that belong to the 33.3 % who did not vote for the ruling party will have to come up with their own upgrading plan so as not to fall into delays or have some reason stated for not upgrading such as "too physically difficult but not impossible to upgrade due to design of the block.
The second group of citizens may have to look after their interest such as lobbying to pay their taxes or service and conservancy charges to town council last since they will get upgrading last. But they must like Minister Mah has said pay the tax exce=pt that they will pay last.
Now, marboro tan said only the pap voted constituencies will get priorty to be done first with many craps reasons.... What a bullying tactic!!! -
I am not surprised that Mah Bow Tan, incidently a PRESIDENT's SCHOLAR, failed to do his homework when he took over as National Development minister.Originally posted by Atobe:In the first place, why should HDB Estates be defined as PAP estates and Opposition Estates ?
Are all the HDB Estates not designed and built by HDB Corporation ?
Until the setting up of Town Councils, was it not true that the HDB Estates were all managed by HDB and with no differentiation of PAP or Opposition Estates ?
Have you made a statement by [b]not understanding the position of the Opposition Parties - with regards to their objection to the HDB Upgrading Program ?
What were the reasons for the Opposition Parties "objecting" to the PAP idea of Upgrading of HDB Estates ?
1. HDB Estates have a lease of 99 years, and most of the HDB Estates were already deteriorating at an early age of 30 years. This reflect the poor quality in design, poor choice of building materials, and poor project and construction management - all of which had a net effect of HDB Flats requiring upgrading within 30 years, compared to Private Housing.
2. If the Upgrading Exercise is necessary for a 30 year old flat, which is caused by HDB poor design, project and construction management, the Opposition Parties felt that it was not correct that the HDB Dwellers were to be expected to co-share in the cost for such improvement works to be made.
3. This Upgrading Programme was politicised, when it was made dependent on HDB Dwellers voting for such a programme - by electing the Candidate from the incumbent political party as an endorsement for such a programme mooted by the Party.
In a report on the [url=http://profile.nus.edu.sg/fass/geokongl/tsehse.pdf]Public Housing in Singapore : Interpreting "Quality" in the 1990s - organised by Assoc Professor Teo Siew Eng from the Department of Geography, NUS - it was mentioned on Page 5 that - "In July 1989, the government announced a formal, large scale S$15 billion programme to upgrade existing HDB estates.... The project was to last 15 years and would affect 95 per cent of HDB dwellers" .
Since July 1989, more then 15 years have passed us by, and the 95 per cent target have yet to be achieved; and now Mah Bow Tan had grandly stated that - "the Lifts in the Opposition Wards will get upgraded by 2015 - at the latest ".
Was Mah being generous with Tax Payers' Money, including those living in Opposition held constituencies and also paying their dues ?
The 2015 target he just stated sounds like he has already pre-set a retirement date for himself from politics. Would it be surprising if this target cannot be met and we suddenly but un-shockingly find our President's Scholar saying it will be the 'job' of the next community development minister to continue the work while he retires from office, washing his hands of the obligation to upgrade the alternative wards?
By that time, another round of elections is likely to have called, meaning the govt will once again, FAIL in their pledge to upgrade all wards, backdating to 1989. They are already 2 years overdue at that.
Mah Bow Tan seems to have a knack for arrogant bluster, especially since he proudly boasted that Singapore will target 2010 to be in the world cup, even when perennial regional champions Thailand dare not publicise such a foolhardy goal. -
2015?
so they will continue to use this as a threat/carrot for the next few elections?