not necessarily. in countries like singapore you have to have 1st class honours in order to enter the bar and be a barrister, in most commonwealth countries its 1st class and 2nd upper class for barristers(represent clients in court). with a 2nd lower class you can only be a socilitor(legal advice eg. corporate legality, cannot represent clients in court). so who said less talented lawyers handle criminal cases and more talented lawyers handle corporate affairs?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:The costs are high primarily because our lawyers and judges are paid so highly. The legal service is a highly protected industry. Whilst cheap foreign doctors from India and Burma are allowed to work in our polyclinics, foreign lawyers are prohibited from doing so.
Costs of litigation will drop if our lawyers are paid less but in a global economy, that is unlikely to happen, since lawyers are very highly paid in western economies as well. Commercial firms are prepared to pay high salaries for lawyers in a successful merger or IPO launch. What will happen is that the top lawyers will do commercial law (as they already do) and the less talented will handle criminal cases. If we bring in cheap foreign lawyers to do criminal cases, we will force more local lawyers to do the more lucrative commercial law.
We will see foreign lawyers handling all the criminal cases and local lawyers, who are better paid, dealing with conveyancing and corporate law. It is a possible solution, if we are prepared for its implications.
Hahaha...where on earth did you get this idea from? Barristers who do corporate law earn far more than those who handle criminal cases. Solicitors who facilitate company mergers earn far more than a criminal lawyer in a murder trial.Originally posted by vito_corleone:not necessarily. in countries like singapore you have to have 1st class honours in order to enter the bar and be a barrister, in most commonwealth countries its 1st class and 2nd upper class for barristers(represent clients in court). with a 2nd lower class you can only be a socilitor(legal advice eg. corporate legality, cannot represent clients in court). so who said less talented lawyers handle criminal cases and more talented lawyers handle corporate affairs?![]()
![]()
Don't you even understand common law? If you are found innocent in a criminal trial, you are not eligible for compensation unless you can prove negligence on the part of the police and prosecuting authorities. If you cannot understand simple English, go back to school and quit insulting others.Originally posted by pearlie27:The issue is not about wrongful arrest by the police. It is about the costs the innocent has to bear in criminal cases.
wasn't the letter about getting changes to the law or what ever policy regarding the ability to get compensation( or rather the costs) when declared innocent in a criminal trail?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Don't you even understand common law? If you are found innocent in a criminal trial, you are not eligible for compensation unless you can prove negligence on the part of the police and prosecuting authorities. If you cannot understand simple English, go back to school and quit insulting others.
Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk ........... a Doctor "doubling" as a Lawyer ? .
Original post by pearlie27:
The issue is not about wrongful arrest by the police. It is about the costs the innocent has to bear in criminal cases.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't you even understand common law? If you are found innocent in a criminal trial, you are not eligible for compensation unless you can prove negligence on the part of the police and prosecuting authorities. If you cannot understand simple English, go back to school and quit insulting others.
did i ever state that barristers who handle criminal cases make more money than corporate lawyers?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Hahaha...where on earth did you get this idea from? Barristers who do corporate law earn far more than those who handle criminal cases. Solicitors who facilitate company mergers earn far more than a criminal lawyer in a murder trial.
Given the huge difference in salaries, practically every lawyer wants to do corporate law. As my lawyer friends tell me, you won't touch criminal law with a 6-foot pole, and that only when you are 6 feet underground. Given the competition in corporate law, you've got to be the best to stand a chance of being considered.
the presumably innocent defendant in the case of a prosecution by the state authorities are entitled to a state appointed barrister if he or she cannot afford one, where's the cost, if its a material one, to be found? and if you do not want to incurr the costs of hiring a defense lawyer, why commit the crime in the first place hence giving the authorities a chance to prosecute you?Originally posted by pearlie27:The issue is not about wrongful arrest by the police. It is about the costs the innocent has to bear in criminal cases.
i think it is you who needs some brushing-up in your language capability, the phrase "needs some working" makes no sense at all.Originally posted by pearlie27:oops! your english needs some working, you don't seem to understand the letter at all.
No you didn't indeed. The thread is about barristers doing criminal cases. What I meant was that criminal law does not pay well compared to other branches of law. I cited corporate law but you are right in that some solicitors handling civil cases are well paid and maritime law is so specialized that lawyers in that field certainly do well.Originally posted by vito_corleone:did i ever state that barristers who handle criminal cases make more money than corporate lawyers?![]()
criminal law and civil law are two different areas
![]()
do the lawyers in the US who handle civil cases eg. suing for millions on behalf of a client and drawing a high comission make less money than the average corporate lawyer? it all depends on circumstances
![]()
people with 1st class honours can choose to either join the corporate or public sector whereas a person with a 2nd lower or a mere pass can at best only get a job as a socilitor, the issue here is not one of money but one of competence.
only if the person cannot afford one?? given the government's standards of beign able to afford, i doubt many would qualify and even then they would have to probably bankrupt themselves first........Originally posted by vito_corleone:the presumably innocent defendant in the case of a prosecution by the state authorities are entitled to a state appointed barrister if he or she cannot afford one, where's the cost, if its a material one, to be found? and if you do not want to incurr the costs of hiring a defense lawyer, why commit the crime in the first place hence giving the authorities a chance to prosecute you?![]()
![]()
exactly, but some people don't seem to get it.Originally posted by hisoka:wasn't the letter about getting changes to the law or what ever policy regarding the ability to get compensation( or rather the costs) when declared innocent in a criminal trail?
ok lorOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:No you didn't indeed. The thread is about barristers doing criminal cases. What I meant was that criminal law does not pay well compared to other branches of law. I cited corporate law but you are right in that some solicitors handling civil cases are well paid and maritime law is so specialized that lawyers in that field certainly do well.
I think money dictates where the lawyers will flock. Wouldn't you agree that if a solicitor doing commercial work is paid more than a barrister handling criminal trials (as it often is the case), most lawyers will avoid criminal work. Given the laws of demand and supply, corporate and commercial law will be able to pick and choose the best whilst there will be fewer criminal lawyers to choose from.
Anyway, this is a side issue. The threadstarter is arguing for compensation for persons found innocent in criminal trials and ways to reduce costs in criminal trials. The former is not provided for in common law jurisdictions unless the defendant can prove negligence on the part of the police and prosecuting authorities. The only way to provide compensation in these cases would be from the taxpayer. As usual, Atobe and the like advocate compensation without a clue as to where the money will come from.
As for the latter, defence costs in criminal prosecution relate to mainly the costs of his own defence lawyers. To reduce the legal costs for the defendant, we would have to lower the fee of criminal lawyers, which as I have said, are probably cheaper than the highly-paid corporate lawyers. If we force the fees of criminal lawyers down (by bringing in cheaper FT or other means), we will force more talented lawyers to go into corporate law or civil litigation instead.
too bad lor, this is singapore. there is no ECHR or human rights act to cover your arse.Originally posted by pearlie27:vito_corleone, would suggest you read the letter again.
Not surprised. If you make partner in a big firm you will be looking at more than 10 times that amount. Good luck!Originally posted by vito_corleone:ok lor![]()
i'm also gunning for corporate law, the starting pay for english socilitors in new york is USD60k per year, no kidding.
![]()
![]()