Are Singaporeans Discourteous?
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the answer is we are singapore, we are singapore. we are singapore...re...an..........Originally posted by ShutterBug:Actually, I think they should find out what is the CAUSE, for being discourteous.
What causes people to be impatient on the road?
Why don't people smile at one another even between strangers?
Why can't people give way?
Why aren't neighbors considerate to their neighbors?
Why don't people give up their seats in trains & buses?
There has to be a cause for all the above. We all know, when there's a smell, there's a garbage dump nearby. -
I was amused by the Sunday times journalists who opened doors for people to see whether they offered their thanks in return.
The majority did not.
Why am i not surprised by this?
Our culture seems to be symbolic of a silent 'courteous' society. We help people open doors, but do not do it with a smile nor do we expect thanks in return.
Like someone wrote in the Sunday times inbox: as a people, we seem to be afraid to be courteous because to do so would be tentamount to being 'subservient', which is of course rubbish. -
The straits times is an exceedingly poor source of information tbh, they twist and selectively distort information to make a better read or to, in this case, lift public spirits aka, propaganda. Take a recent article for an example - the one with the headlines, '30% of accidents occur on weekends' splattered all over the frontpage of 'HOME' - when 2 out of 7 days is in fact, quite very close to 30% (28.x). Interesting.Originally posted by dragg:i am sure the journalists can tell foreigners and locals apart.
Back to the topic, perhaps most Singaporeans by nature do not know how to be courteous and thus politeness must be ingrained through formal education in schools and taught alongside subjects like english or math, instead of feeble attempts through the tv using a poorly animated lion cartoon character, which I think everyone can agree upon, is quite fantastically lame.
Or another angle I personally find quite plausible is that the older Singaporeans, the ones still firmly rooted in chinese tradition, thinking and whatnot from the harder life of decades past, are more wary and paranoid when people their age go out of their way to be kind to them, viewing them as suspicious as such behaviour is generally a preface to a mugging/rape/xx~ etc in the world they grew up in. Or, when someone younger does it, they take it for granted, as if it was their right to receive such an action (probably stems from the commonly held - but little act upon - asian value to be kind to older people). No helping the majority of them. Just have to wait till they die. -
I tot its all start from parenting.
I sometimes buy stuff for my bf's niece. somehow, it seems to be taken for granted. The girl had forgotten to say thank you or was not taught to say it. Then one day, the grandma said the girl's mother tell off the sister in law that she buy pasar malam clothes for her daughter. -
Oh then we should start formally educating the young in manners. Quite sad really. Can envision a teacher with an air of boredom, instructing the little tykes that the proper reply to 'Thank you' is really a 'Welcome' not another 'Thank you'. Not that it would amount to much anyway, not since they still cannot teach the average Singaporean to speak and write coherently in english - what more about manners which is arguably lesser known and rarely used here.Originally posted by mistyblue:I tot its all start from parenting.
I sometimes buy stuff for my bf's niece. somehow, it seems to be taken for granted. The girl had forgotten to say thank you or was not taught to say it. Then one day, the grandma said the girl's mother tell off the sister in law that she buy pasar malam clothes for her daughter.
edit:typo -
No Lah, it all starts in schools.
We are Number 1 OK!
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95 percent of primary, secondary students experienced bullying in schools /video
By Pearl Forss, Channel NewsAsia
SINGAPORE: 95 percent of students in primary and secondary schools have experienced bullying in their schools.
Out of 4000 students surveyed, almost all said they have experienced bullying.
Majority were victims of verbal bullying such as teasing and name calling.
But over 2800 cases of physical bullying such as being kicked, hit or pushed were also reported.
The survey was conducted by the Harvest Centre for Research, Training & Development, and also the Coalition Against Bullying for Children & Youth.
"Quite a huge percentage said they feel angry and the second highest would be the sadness and depression, which could lead to low self esteem. International research has shown that bullies, by the age of 17 to 27, have a higher tendency to enter a criminal career. There has been known cases where bully victims take matters into their own hands because they need to do something about it. For example, they slash their wrists with penknives or they plot revenge," said Esther Ng, founder of Coalition Against Bullying.
The survey also found that in primary schools, 46 percent of instances of bullying took place in the canteens, and 42 percent in the school field.
But in secondary schools, 38 percent of bullying instances took place in the classroom, 35 percent in the canteen and 23 percent in the school toilets.
In Australia and the United States, it is mandatory for schools to have anti bullying programmes.
But not in Singapore.
Also many teachers are unaware of actual cases of bullying because the victims are too afraid to speak up while bystanders choose to remain silent for fear they'll be the next target.
"It's very powerful what a bystander can do, they can say lets stop it or lets go tell a teacher. They are the most powerful assistant or help in a situation like this. But only a minority will speak up," said Ms Ng.
Responding to Channel NewsAsia's queries, the Education Ministry said "bullying in schools is regarded as a serious matter and besides taking appropriate disciplinary measures on bullies, counselling and other preventive actions are also carried out."
It added that "records indicate the number of serious offences in schools has remained small and relatively stable over the years."
A conference on bullying will be held on the 19th and 20th June to help educators understand this issue more. - CNA /dt -
this is a very biased comment. do you have something against the older generation? the really discourteous people i have encountered are mostly the younger generation.Originally posted by altolize:Or another angle I personally find quite plausible is that the older Singaporeans, the ones still firmly rooted in chinese tradition, thinking and whatnot from the harder life of decades past, are more wary and paranoid when people their age go out of their way to be kind to them, viewing them as suspicious as such behaviour is generally a preface to a mugging/rape/xx~ etc in the world they grew up in. Or, when someone younger does it, they take it for granted, as if it was their right to receive such an action (probably stems from the commonly held - but little act upon - asian value to be kind to older people). No helping the majority of them. Just have to wait till they die. -
Originally posted by ObviousMan:
The spokesperson is lying. Generally, when a student complaints about bulllying and points out the identity of the bully, teachers take a kids will be kids attitude and just assume it is normal horsing around. Or, both the bully and the bullied get punished, and the cycle continues.
No Lah, it all starts in schools.
We are Number 1 OK!
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[b]95 percent of primary, secondary students experienced bullying in schools /video
By Pearl Forss, Channel NewsAsia
Responding to Channel NewsAsia's queries, the Education Ministry said "bullying in schools is regarded as a serious matter and besides taking appropriate disciplinary measures on bullies, counselling and other preventive actions are also carried out."
It added that "records indicate the number of serious offences in schools has remained small and relatively stable over the years."
A conference on bullying will be held on the 19th and 20th June to help educators understand this issue more. - CNA /dt[/b] -
Hehehe... don't mind him/her, probably not old enough yet....Originally posted by dragg:this is a very biased comment. do you have something against the older generation? the really discourteous people i have encountered are mostly the younger generation. -
In Singapore, people don't generally "help" one another, because we are trained by our government and their policies to help ourselves - and not be reliant.
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looks like there wont be not much of improvement for another generation to come:
Teenagers
Something's not quite right
A behavioral decline that could augur ill when they grow up.
By Seah Chiang Nee, littlespeck.com
Jun 25, 2006
SINGAPOREANS have been shocked by a widely circulated video of a teenage schoolgirl being brutally beaten by three older girls.
This came just as a survey showed that bullying in schools has reached an epidemic level, with 70% of primary and secondary students reporting being physically abused at some time or other.
If non-physical harassment is included, bullying is felt by nine-tenth of all students, which means that the bullies are themselves also being bullied.
In the four-and-a-half-minute clip, the attackers, who were slightly older, were seen viciously kicking and punching the 13-year-old girl after removing her shirt. Like many such cases, the dispute was over boys.
The beating, which happened in April, was blatantly bold, with the assailants daring to film it and probably distribute the video.
Surprisingly, the police, who have a low tolerance of public violence, have said they will not take action without the victim making a report, although the identity of the assailants is known.
This is the latest - and more serious - case of juvenile delinquency that has caught the country by surprise.
In recent years, cases of bullying, including assaults, in schools have been inexplicably rising, with a few even involving teachers who complain that today's students are generally harder to discipline.
The Education Ministry considers it serious enough to launch a Bully Free Week to encourage victims to report bullying. Most are too afraid to do so.
Educators this week held a two-day meeting on the subject to help them understand it better.
The serious cases often take place in "neighbourhood" schools, which have more than their share of children from poor or broken homes where parental care is low. Many troublemakers are girls.
Among the 4,000 students surveyed, some 2,800 or 70% said they had been victims of physical acts such as kicking, hitting, hair-pulling or pushing that often happened in the classroom, canteen or in the toilet.
Discipline among Singaporean youths has undoubtedly dropped, but the situation is probably nowhere as serious as the survey statistics imply.
For one thing, violent assaults such as the video case are few and the use of weapons is even more rare. Most cases of bullying involve teasing, name-calling or harassment, which may be described as horseplay elsewhere. They are a far cry from the violence in the United States or Japan.
Nevertheless, it is a concern because research has shown that habitual bullies have a greater chance of growing up into violent adults or criminals. Why are teens becoming so intolerant or flare up so easily?
Some attribute it to the high pressure of a competitive exam system (reforms are being implemented) and high parental expectations.
But most acts of bullying stem from peer or boy-girl conflicts that have little to do with national issues or even considerations of right or wrong.
It is caused by a clique system that forces conformity, in which a group bands together to ensure individual compliance. The victims are often loners who refuse to cooperate or who opt to remain apart.
The methods used can range from slaps to vandalising schoolbooks or bags and, of course, cyber-threats.
A world report has said this high-tech city has the highest incidence of Internet bullying among kids in any country outside the US.
It entails sending insults, pornographic images and threats of bodily harm.
"Singapore has far more cases than anyone would have expected," says Wired Safety, which monitors 76 countries.
On a per capita basis, it had received far more reports of "cyber-bullying" from Singapore (except the US), with 80 reports last year.
"Having been to Singapore and seen how well-behaved the children are, the results came as quite a shock," said Parry Aftab, its Washington-based executive director.
Others use cell-phone SMS to harass classmates.
Bullying is not the only concern; another is teenage sexual promiscuity.
Earlier this year, a 19-year-old Polytechnic girl videotaped herself making love with her boyfriend. The video was stolen by someone who uploaded it on the Web, and it became the most sought after item in the world's search engines.
Despite these shortcomings, the new generation of Singaporeans is largely rational and well behaved, with most teens seriously pursuing their studies and getting good results.
Bad teenage elements, however, merely mirror the worst part of an ill-tempered adult world where road rage and marital violence are a frequent phenomenon, and an unintentional stare can result in a severe beating for the innocent.
For Singaporeans young and old, the lifestyle is one of high cost and fast pace, where competition starts from kindergarten (age six) to university and on to the workplace.
The leaders often remind them that the world doesn't owe them a living.
The outcome is an increasing number of people with shorter tempers and flying fists.
At last count, road rage cases had reached 96 a year, which resulted in stricter punishment for serious offenders - caning, a maximum of a year's jail plus a S$1,000 fine.
Singapore's tight living space and over-crowdedness are also helping to create an exaggerated sense of being squeezed or aggrieved by others.
A youth social worker, Carol Balhetchet, is concerned by youths who turn to bullying as a means of managing their problems or merely passing time.
A more serious letter warns: "If physical bullying continues, we will wake up one day to find ourselves having to search students for hidden weapons at the school door." -
I think unconsciously, you have hit the nail on the head in your own post. Yes, experiences encounted by different people, vary from person to person and where from do biases develop? From experiences (note: plural). Maybe the very definition or scale of being ill-mannered varies between the younger and the older people in Singapore. Would you consider a teenager blasting music on his earphones on the train/bus oblivious to the other commuters more impolite than say, a middle aged person who knocks into your chair at lunch and moves on without so much as a apologetic glance?Originally posted by dragg:this is a very biased comment. do you have something against the older generation? the really discourteous people i have encountered are mostly the younger generation.
Perhaps its due to my unfamilarity with these boards and its conventions, but generally when I visit other forums,ShutterBugHehehe... don't mind him/her, probably not old enough yet....
If you do not have anything to contribute to the topic other than a snide and asinine remark resulting from a bruised ego after identifying yourself as part of a group which has suffered some criticism from another poster. Do not post. -
We are not courteous enough by Western (Ang Moh) standards.
And we never will be.
Because:
We are Asians. China and India are naturally crowded countries. Therefore manners among the masses are a little brisque.
Some Asians cultures dispense with the need to say "Thank You" for minor courtesy or small favours. Such acts are expected and is no big deal. Only great favours are appreciated, usually with gifts.
We are losing our traditions. In Asian culture, the parents look after the child, the whole village brings up that child. That no longer applys to Singapore. We blame the schools, the schools blame the parents, the parents blame the government. Actually we are all responsibile for our childrens' bad behaviour. These children are in turn our future adults.
Also the best we can hope for is that one day there will be more courteous people in Singapore than abnoxious ones. Which is the situation in Western (Ang Moh) countries today. -
Ang mors tell us if we cannot follow their culture in their country, we should ship out. So I believe singapore is following suit.
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You are telling us, you DO NOT have an ego, pride, or dignity as a human?Originally posted by altolize:Perhaps its due to my unfamilarity with these boards and its conventions, but generally when I visit other forums,
If you do not have anything to contribute to the topic other than a snide and asinine remark resulting from a bruised ego after identifying yourself as part of a group which has suffered some criticism from another poster. Do not post. -
What I don't like about them, the Ang Mohs; they are very "plastic" in my opinion.Originally posted by ditzy:Ang mors tell us if we cannot follow their culture in their country, we should ship out. So I believe singapore is following suit.
>> "Great! What a lovely dinner you cooked!" = actually, they can't stand your cooking and finds it too hot, they were just being COURTEOUS.
>> "Hey great to see you! It's been so long!" = actually, they don't care to see you, in fact, they'd rather be somewhere else..
>> "It so lovely! It's small but cosy! = remark about HDB flat being small but very cosy, actually, they are feeling claustrophobic and can'tr wait to go home!
They may be outwardly pleasant, courteous and nice, but they really don't mean 70% of what they say in front of you. -
I do, but if all I do is belittle other people because their opinions differ from mine, the topic would sway and eventually contort into a flame war.Originally posted by ShutterBug:You are telling us, you DO NOT have an ego, pride, or dignity as a human?
On one hand this could be just you suffering from low self-esteem, on the other, lets assume you are right and that "ang mohs" lie 70% of the time for their own personal amusement. If this is the general view of the average Singaporean towards "ang mohs" could we not just not adopt that part of their behaviour, but emulate the better bits like holding the lift/door, helping someone pick up something, stuff that might seem insignificant and effortless for the helper but gives the person(s) on the recieving end a sense of camaraderie and thankfulness (incidentally, the helpee should pay it back with gratitude in the simple form of a short 'thank you', instead of hurrying off in an embarrassed fluster).Originally posted by ShutterBug:What I don't like about them, the Ang Mohs; they are very "plastic" in my opinion.
>> "Great! What a lovely dinner you cooked!" = actually, they can't stand your cooking and finds it too hot, they were just being COURTEOUS.
>> "Hey great to see you! It's been so long!" = actually, they don't care to see you, in fact, they'd rather be somewhere else..
>> "It so lovely! It's small but cosy! = remark about HDB flat being small but very cosy, actually, they are feeling claustrophobic and can'tr wait to go home!
They may be outwardly pleasant, courteous and nice, but they really don't mean 70% of what they say in front of you.
Unfortunately, I, personally hardly ever see this happening. Skeptical? A fairly simple test of this would be: Do you feel suprised when someone actually does something like that for you?
In other words, courtesy is not based only or even majorly on speech but in my opinion it is based on actions - both big and small - done on a regular basis by the greater whole of any community. Thus, we should seek to expand our little acts of kindness from remote incidents to widespread occurences done by everyone. -
Originally posted by altolize:
Or another angle I personally find quite plausible is that the older Singaporeans, the ones still firmly rooted in chinese tradition, thinking and whatnot from the harder life of decades past, are more wary and paranoid when people their age go out of their way to be kind to them, viewing them as suspicious as such behaviour is generally a preface to a mugging/rape/xx~ etc in the world they grew up in. Or, when someone younger does it, they take it for granted, as if it was their right to receive such an action (probably stems from the commonly held - but little act upon - asian value to be kind to older people). No helping the majority of them. Just have to wait till they die.
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Your above statement sounds like you are an orphan. -
your understanding of the older singaporeans are pathetic and smack of disrespect. With such disrespect, whatever smiles or little actions of courtesy to show "a sense of camaraderie and thankfulness" are simply superficial and downright hypocrical.Originally posted by altolize:Or another angle I personally find quite plausible is that the older Singaporeans, the ones still firmly rooted in chinese tradition, thinking and whatnot from the harder life of decades past, are more wary and paranoid when people their age go out of their way to be kind to them, viewing them as suspicious as such behaviour is generally a preface to a mugging/rape/xx~ etc in the world they grew up in. Or, when someone younger does it, they take it for granted, as if it was their right to receive such an action (probably stems from the commonly held - but little act upon - asian value to be kind to older people). No helping the majority of them. Just have to wait till they die.
ShutterBug is right, we can trust only the 30% of what is expressed on the outside, but not the 70% in their minds and in their hearts.
The older singaporean did suffer decades ago, but that did not stop them from following their traditions to help one another by helping the new immigrants from China who had nothing, to settle in singapore; it was their traditional belief in educations that united them in setting up schools, and even university to educate their children; it was their tradition to thrift that enable them to make singapore what it is today, these do not just apply to the chinese, but the indian and other Asian races here... you have no idea what the early singaporeans did for one another, so don't come here and talk about camaraderie or brotherly love.
Have you spoken to an old singaporean who do not speak english??? -
in general, i feel that s'poreans are more likely to 'act-blur' than they are outrightly rude. Rather than describing ourselves to be 'discourteous', I would say that we have an overwhelming desire to look after 'number one' (i.e. ourselves), and this selfishness sometimes means that we do not think about others.
...and since we always blame the garment, I would say that in general, we S'poreans are no more cold and calculating than the ruling party that has shaped S'pore society for the past 4 decades... -
Well you are right about what you said.Originally posted by blueheeler:in general, i feel that s'poreans are more likely to 'act-blur' than they are outrightly rude. Rather than describing ourselves to be 'discourteous', I would say that we have an overwhelming desire to look after 'number one' (i.e. ourselves), and this selfishness sometimes means that we do not think about others.
...and since we always blame the garment, I would say that in general, we S'poreans are no more cold and calculating than the ruling party that has shaped S'pore society for the past 4 decades...
Basically, we are taught that they (our government) does not owe us a living. But we on the other hand, owes them a living instead. And their policies and regulations taught us all to look after ourselves, no welfare, no money hand outs, the CPF is for our retirement and medicals should anything happens. They calculate everything and every cent with us. Hence, most of us grew up into a calculative people, who are only keen in OUR OWN WELLBEING.
It is like that, people become the kind of people who brought them up. Same with children, they grow up the way they were brought up.
You drop your books or stuff while walking, you pick it up yourself. You fall down while walking, you pick yourself up. No one will help you up.
Of course there also quite some kindly souls who will help or lend a hand. But I'm pointing out what cause people here, to be generally self-centered in daily living. -
young man,Originally posted by altolize:Or another angle I personally find quite plausible is that the older Singaporeans, the ones still firmly rooted in chinese tradition, thinking and whatnot from the harder life of decades past, are more wary and paranoid when people their age go out of their way to be kind to them, viewing them as suspicious as such behaviour is generally a preface to a mugging/rape/xx~ etc in the world they grew up in. Or, when someone younger does it, they take it for granted, as if it was their right to receive such an action (probably stems from the commonly held - but little act upon - asian value to be kind to older people). No helping the majority of them. Just have to wait till they die.
older folks are more suspicious of kind gestures simply because they are more experienced and not because of what you claimed - firmly rooted tradition or hard life. they probably had been conned or heard enough of con stories. aren't most scams started with some sweetener or nice act?
i really don't understand what you meant by "No helping the majority of them. Just have to wait till they die." -
seriously, does such civil forum exist? care to let us know?Originally posted by altolize:Perhaps its due to my unfamilarity with these boards and its conventions, but generally when I visit other forums,
If you do not have anything to contribute to the topic other than a snide and asinine remark resulting from a bruised ego after identifying yourself as part of a group which has suffered some criticism from another poster. Do not post. -
generally i think Chinese are more reticent and thus appear to be discourteous. hopefully this will change as we become globalised.
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Tests such as these have to be viewed in the context of how they were conducted.
As a Singaporean, i would say that generally we are courteous compared to many countries in Asia. But we are far from being courteous enough.
Courtesy is a form of generosity of spirit. Many people do not understand this. Like many things else, we have only a very shallow understanding of true courtesy.
For many Singaporeans, courtesy is just a facade, a thin veneer. We still get rude very quickly as a people. On the roads drivers are still aggressive, people still get impatient easily etc.
A very simple illustration.
I was in Vancouver recently, and I was surprised at how quiet the roads are. Not just that they have less traffic - which is the case, surely. But even in some of the congested popular areas, you find that the drivers there rarely use their car horns. This is patience, this is also true courtesy, good manners. Which is unfortunately not that common in Singapore.