which is tougher? sispec or ocs?
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ohhhh.....Originally posted by Shotgun:What it actually means is, Tactics is often restricted by logistics. You may have to tactics to win a battle, but do you have to logistics to support it?
okay i get the meaning now.
i think the quote not quite rite coz i oso remember a quote like dat when i was a trainee but i cant remember it tho. heh heh civilised liao forget army training....
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RockerZ!
[This message has been edited by Ducati996 (edited 27 November 2001).] -
I think I read that from Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising. Said by the Russian General...
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depends on ur pc los... some bery bian tai one is sispec can train their specialists in more tougher ways than in ocs...
some lax one maybe if lucky kenna, then even if in ocs ur life is not so tough los...
but overall i think ocs is much tougher in physical and mental stress...
i am from sispec
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Well... i personally feel that the trg @ Sispec is really quite fun. It's xiong, no doubt, but basically if you can get into sispec, you can pass out of it. That's the same way in ocs. those who fail course are juz suay...
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My new PC behaves like an ahbeng/pai kia. He is also an
autocrat. He's selfish, rude, uncultured
and inconsiderate.
Either OCS teaches little, the wrong thing
or my PC is really thick. Maybe life there
is too relaxed and he never kena tekkan properly before. -
To add on to what i said about my 2LT PC.
He even cut in front of me in the queue. tsk. -
that's the thing with junior officers...they are usually posted into a platoon to command it, but aren't as well suited to do that as the pt sgt, who has built up the unit integrity...so who you think the men listen to...
hey, i don't believe you guys who went to OETI didn't mention the Indian Barbershop with the neck creaking...not to mention the afternoon roti johns...
not to belittle combat specs, but anyone who says that drycladding a 7ton truck under the hot sun without a forklift using an old cracking cover is not siong has obviously not done it before...;-) -
Sispec or OCS, both are equally important though somewhat similar courses that train leaders. One question tho, will someone from sispec ever become an officer? Or is that like striking lottery?
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tough, but definitely possible. a few sispec (i admit only a few) trainees do cross over into ocs. there were some in my batch.Originally posted by Shotgun:Sispec or OCS, both are equally important though somewhat similar courses that train leaders. One question tho, will someone from sispec ever become an officer? Or is that like striking lottery?
basically their main problems in adapting was to the main focus in training. sispec teaches to always be able to execute combat drills to near perfection, whereas ocs main focus was to always know why you do things a certain way, and altough must first know the correct stuff according to doctrine, that better to do things differently from doctrine provided you can justify and it works rather than follow doctrine even when you know its wrong.
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RockerZ! -
Does this somewhat imply that the Sispec Sergeants just do what their lieutenants do, and will have no concept of the bigger picture?
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actually i feel it depends on wat type of attitude the sergeants choose to adopt when it comes to the mission.Originally posted by Shotgun:Does this somewhat imply that the Sispec Sergeants just do what their lieutenants do, and will have no concept of the bigger picture?
i like to think of it this way: imagine i the pc, on a platoon mission, say, movement to contact. we are looking for the enemy and suddenly got contact left. before i can react, one of my kilat sergeant due to his training in sispec has already brought his section on a flanking manouvre to counter the enemy. this will give me time to consider the current situation, whether got other enemy nearby, whether its a trap, etc, instead of wasting time directing which section to flank, which direction, etc, and then review the situation.
its impt the sergeants have the bigger picture so as to help him make decisions on the requirements of his section. its not his job to worry bout the bigger pix, that worry for the pc, but to know about it to better make decisions on his job.
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RockerZ! -
In other words, the sergeants keep the troops alive until the officers make up their mind?
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also, the sergeants keeps the officers alive while they make decisions and liase with the higer ranks...
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well somebody's gotta do the thinking. you have no idea wat its like if you havent done it b4. the reason why it look lobo or slack is coz thinking doesnt require any body movement, but the onli ppl who think its a slack job are ppl who never had to worry about keeping the troops alive and completing the mission at the same time.Originally posted by Shotgun:In other words, the sergeants keep the troops alive until the officers make up their mind? -
Nobody's saying being and officer is a lobo job. I' was just asking if it was the case that Sergeants keep people alive until Officers making up their mind. Another question, what happens when the sergeant dies?
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well if you put it that way then i have to say they have to keep each other alive in their own way. the sergeant keeps the officer (and the platoon) alive in the way i described above. the officer keeps the sergeant (and the platoon) alive by reviewing each and evri situation and deciding on the best course of action.
as for wat happens when the sergeant die, same thing lor... next highest take over. if sect comd, then the cpl sect 2ic take over. if plt sergeant, the 2sg gpmg comd take over. if officer die, plt sergeant take over. and so on.
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RockerZ! -
Originally posted by sakaratulz:actually guys,it is OETI that is the most siong....
O= only
E= eat
T= talk &
I= idle
J;ON'[BOI' -
If sispec so good, they won't have to salute and call the officers SIR...Originally posted by Ducati996:yah, sakaratulz, oeti damn siong, go brunei still must double up as boatman heh heh....
anyway to stay in ocs you gotta get under 9mins 30secs for soc and at least silver in ippt, if not kena kick out. of course i admit most if not all sispec guys can achieve the same, but i dont think will kena kick out. correct me if i wrong? and not performing to standard will oso get you kicked out of ocs.
oso, i disagree that sispec is just ocs squeeze into half the time. ocs learn more, up to company level operations. all cadets train to use and command gpmg, 84mm recoilless rifle, etc.
one thing i realize is the reason why ppl say sispec is tougher is the difference in instructors methods. ocs instructors behave like model leaders as examples to cadets. they rarely use vulgarities(subject to which wing you from) and never ever physically touch cadets. sispec instructors, however, not to say their method wrong...well those haven go ns yet, use your imagination. anyway, if both sides instructors are the same(either both siong or both 'examplary') i dare say ocs will be tougher.
no offence to sispec guys. i love my sergeants!!!! you guys best!!! -
Sigh...maybe you should read this article and maybe you'd give specialists the resepct they deserve...Originally posted by RAIDER:If sispec so good, they won't have to salute and call the officers SIR...
http://www.f-16.net/library/stories/supplyof.html
Most officers think that they're rank is higher, so they're right, their specs have to salute, say "yes Sir", and carry out their orders, even though the spec may be the one with experience, know how things work and have know the men who are carrying out the orders.
While I was a spec, we had 2 different officers(one came after the prev ORDed). We made the first guys life heaven, the other one hell. And thats simply because they treated their specs(us) differently...rank indeed. -
LoL! SOunds as if, if the sergeants like the officer, whatever the officer asks them to carry out, they will carry out 100% and then some. If the sergeants dun like the officer, they just do what is barely required and arrow the rest back to the officer?
Is that the case? -
No...what it means is that as a junior officer with that single bar, don't go throwing your weight around on even the junior specs, especially those who knows how things are run wherever they are...Originally posted by Shotgun:LoL! SOunds as if, if the sergeants like the officer, whatever the officer asks them to carry out, they will carry out 100% and then some. If the sergeants dun like the officer, they just do what is barely required and arrow the rest back to the officer?
Is that the case?
Look...theres no such crap as officers are more impt than the specs and so on and so forth. Everyone has their own niche in the scheme of things, without any part of it, the whole system collapses -
Sounds like the way it should be. But in reality, is it the case? I need to find out more. =)
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wat the......???Originally posted by Shotgun:Sounds like the way it should be. But in reality, is it the case? I need to find out more. =)
brudder, you got go ns liao or havent? -
I know thats how it is like in the army in peacetime(ie everybody has to do their part and pull together), at least where I came from anyway. That is why my first officer succeeded where his successor failed. He gave his specs and men the respect and incentive they deserved and everyone pulled along with him, while giving them the trust they knew and could do their jobs. But then, isn't that true for any organisation?Originally posted by Shotgun:Sounds like the way it should be. But in reality, is it the case? I need to find out more. =)
I dunno if thats how it'll be like in war, but then hopefullt I'll never get to find out. -
Ducati, Nope. Going in soon though. Half of me is considering becoming a career soldier. Heh.
Which is why I need to find out how the Army runs its people from the inside.
By the way, I heard some people comment on our specs and troops that have gone thru sispec. They told me that we champed the US Marines in most aspects. How true is that?