80 PDMMs gather at Chinese Embassy
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You still don't get what I mean. I fully support our government actions to clamp down on illegal massaging trade. But the problem now is that some forummers here just can't grasp the fact that both parties(foreign prostitues and local men) have to take the blame. They only condemned one side which is immature.Originally posted by equlus84:Blueray I think u stil dun get the issue. The entire saga is to clamp down on illegal activities like prostitution, it so happn that massage trade is the one they are clamping down on, it so happen that many PDMMS are involve in massaging trade, some individuals went on to think Singapore is out to expel all PRC citizens.
I know thatit is embarassing for a person to hear their own country men not conducting in an appropriate manner in the host nation. But u should be aware that we not against those ppls that are honest and doing legal stuff here...............
Another problem which u fail to see is that singaporeans are also guilty of exploiting foreigners which in the end led to these people involved in ileegal sex trade. Here's an example:
http://www.twc2.org.sg/cms/content/view/145/62/
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You have sidetracked. The issue is the PDMM but you have been harping on the sgrean wrong doing...etc. Maybe you want to start a new topic on sg wrong doing ?
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You missed my point. I sidetracked becos I wanted to explain the fact that these singaporean wrongdoing are part of the reason which led to illegal activities involving foreign women.
Get it?
That's why I said that both sides have to take the blame. -
actually, even on the PDMM, most are really here to take care of their children, and only a small minority that are here for the money are in the vice trade.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Bluerray,
Every country has their black sheep, China has her PDMMs, Nigeria has her scam artists etc.
What we are doing here is narrowing down the PDMM issue, not an attack on China.
Get your facts right and understand the political complexities in SG first, then you will understand why it is not as easy as you think.
I have know quite a few of these PDMM teaching chinese at the child care centers.
I will say, the issue at hand should be narrow down to those in the vice trade only. -
Isn't that the same argument as "to stamp out poverty, we should kill all the beggars"? Or to stop scams, we should do away with money?Originally posted by Blueray:To zzzdidi,
You don't seem to realise something. It takes 2 hands to clap. Who are providing these PDMMs the chance to carry out illegal activities? Singaporean Men! If local men learn to behave themselves, will these people have the chance to be involved in illegal activities in the first place.
I have made myself very clear in my first post that both sides have to take the blame. How come u only blamed one side?
You claim that it is because of a demand that caused the pdmm to provide the supply, the converse is also true, to end the demand, you remove the supply. You can draw the demand and supply curve to see for yourself.
So now we reached the chicken and egg story, who is to stop first? The singaporean men, who have the same urges as men all over the world? If sg men stop their vice, will the supply of pdmm end up going to other countries and thus causing singapore to lose our china "foreign talents"?
You see how convoluted your argument is? And still you do not see the main picture. Singaporeans, for many years, have been telling our govt that they should create jobs for the lower wage earners. The govt has been replying that no one owes us a living.
Now the pdmm starts singing the same song, and you expect our govt, who refuses to create jobs for our lower wage earners, to create jobs for women who should not even be here?
If the pdmm doesn't have money and has no skills that allow her to work in sg, they should just be content to send theie children here for a good education and a bright future rather than come here for a good life themselves and end up becoming a burden to society and an embarassment to they're children. -
It is not a matter of pushing the blame. No one cares about the blame. It is a matter of taking the best course of action.Originally posted by Blueray:You missed my point. I sidetracked becos I wanted to explain the fact that these singaporean wrongdoing are part of the reason which led to illegal activities involving foreign women.
Get it?
That's why I said that both sides have to take the blame.
The singaporean cheat china women, china officials cheat singaporean businessmen, nigerian scammer cheat everyone else... The list goes on. At the end of the day, its willing buyer willing seller. You get cheated due to your greed, please don't blame anyone else.
You want a magic stone? You want a magiv dzi bead, you want to use fengshui, you want to go to a foreign land where there is easy money to be made, its all up to you.
These women, even if uneducated, can teach mandarin since sg has been focusing on the speak good mandarin campaign. They do not need any skill or higher education.
Considering that sg is one of the few countries that does not openly give preferential treatment to her own citizens, leading to the dislike of FTs, PDMM are very lucky already. Imagine a country which imposes a bumiputra type law, how much worse her life would be. -
Hey look u seem to think that majority of the PDmms here are a burden to our society. How many actually protested? Only a handful. If they are a burden, why the PAP alow them here in the first place?Originally posted by SilverPal:Isn't that the same argument as "to stamp out poverty, we should kill all the beggars"? Or to stop scams, we should do away with money?
You claim that it is because of a demand that caused the pdmm to provide the supply, the converse is also true, to end the demand, you remove the supply. You can draw the demand and supply curve to see for yourself.
So now we reached the chicken and egg story, who is to stop first? The singaporean men, who have the same urges as men all over the world? If sg men stop their vice, will the supply of pdmm end up going to other countries and thus causing singapore to lose our china "foreign talents"?
You see how convoluted your argument is? And still you do not see the main picture. Singaporeans, for many years, have been telling our govt that they should create jobs for the lower wage earners. The govt has been replying that no one owes us a living.
Now the pdmm starts singing the same song, and you expect our govt, who refuses to create jobs for our lower wage earners, to create jobs for women who should not even be here?
If the pdmm doesn't have money and has no skills that allow her to work in sg, they should just be content to send theie children here for a good education and a bright future rather than come here for a good life themselves and end up becoming a burden to society and an embarassment to they're children.
My friend who opens a chinese restaurant here said she also prefers to employ PDMMs and other china nationals.
http://english.people.com.cn/200207/09/eng20020709_99414.shtml
Why blame foreigners from taking away your jobs when the truth is that even local employers prefer to employ them? -
Hey look u seem to think that majority of the PDmms here are a burden to our society. How many actually protested? Only a handful. If they are a burden, why the PAP alow them here in the first place?Originally posted by SilverPal:Isn't that the same argument as "to stamp out poverty, we should kill all the beggars"? Or to stop scams, we should do away with money?
You claim that it is because of a demand that caused the pdmm to provide the supply, the converse is also true, to end the demand, you remove the supply. You can draw the demand and supply curve to see for yourself.
So now we reached the chicken and egg story, who is to stop first? The singaporean men, who have the same urges as men all over the world? If sg men stop their vice, will the supply of pdmm end up going to other countries and thus causing singapore to lose our china "foreign talents"?
You see how convoluted your argument is? And still you do not see the main picture. Singaporeans, for many years, have been telling our govt that they should create jobs for the lower wage earners. The govt has been replying that no one owes us a living.
Now the pdmm starts singing the same song, and you expect our govt, who refuses to create jobs for our lower wage earners, to create jobs for women who should not even be here?
If the pdmm doesn't have money and has no skills that allow her to work in sg, they should just be content to send theie children here for a good education and a bright future rather than come here for a good life themselves and end up becoming a burden to society and an embarassment to they're children.
My friend who opens a chinese restaurant here said she also prefers to employ PDMMs and other china nationals.
http://english.people.com.cn/200207/09/eng20020709_99414.shtml
Why blame foreigners from taking away your jobs when the truth is that even local employers prefer to employ them? Read the above link. -
Sorry for the double post.
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I am not blaming all pdmms, nor am I blaming most pdmms. My references were directed at the RELEVANT parties. As said by another forumer, there are pdmms who teach mandarin, are they a burden to our society?Originally posted by Blueray:Hey look u seem to think that majority of the PDmms here are a burden to our society. How many actually protested? Only a handful. If they are a burden, why the PAP alow them here in the first place?
My friend who opens a chinese restaurant here said she also prefers to employ PDMMs and other china nationals.
http://english.people.com.cn/200207/09/eng20020709_99414.shtml
Why blame foreigners from taking away your jobs when the truth is that even local employers prefer to employ them? Read the above link.
What I am highlighting is that, we should not label singaporeans as evil when pdmms decide to come to singapore nor should we push all the responsibility to singaporeans when these pdmms demand for jobs. Today they demand for jobs, tomorrow they demand for voting rights (since policies affect them), what else will they demand for?
If you want to go to another country, make sure you can find a job first. Many pdmms can do it. Many have done it. Expecting the singapore govt to spoonfeed them with jobs, throw money at them and give in to all their unlimited wants is absurd.
Our govt doesn't even do that for the voters/citizens, do you think they will do it for the pdmms?
As for employers hiring foreigners, that has been disected to the extreme and is not the main focus of this thread. I'm not worried about losing my job to the pdmms, I'm not very good with my hands anyway. -
The logic is like some time back, some illegal immigrants are drown as they attempt to use float and other devices to attempt to swim to Singapore from the sampan operated by snakeheads. Can the family members of the decease claim compensation from the coast guar for "driving them to the extreme?" I believe many already noe the consequences of being caught, as you will be caned and jailed. But you still see throngs of ppl attempting rite? So are you going to blame Singapore for "not giving living spaces for them? To thrive? To work?"
Due to recent economical success, the coastal regions of China has gain economical success. We do read of news of some girls from poorer regions flocking there to take part in prostitution and are caught by local police. Are you going to write to the People's Daily and complain abt the police for being too harsh on those girls. They are not sympathetic to their economical situation back in their home town? Can you? Does this have any logic? Trust me, if the situation of those seedy "massage parlour, hair saloon" worsen, I believe the police in china would definitely instill in laws to shut them down.
Lastly, this is just domestic affair, rite? Do you agree? -
Your arguements are flawed.Originally posted by Blueray:That is becos they are our largest customers! Why do I say that?
For example if china students stop coming to S'pore, schools like Stansfield, informatics will probably close shop. Malaysian universities will be more than happy to accept them since nowadays small towns in Malaysia are booming due to an influx of Chinese students.
If China tourists stop coming to Singapore, our tourism industry will sink into oblivion since nowadays it is not ang moh tourists but chinese tourists who bring in the most bucks.
Our real estate property market is not doing so well these years and Chinese nationals are now the third largest buyer/investor of private properties in Spore.
For u to say that they never contribute to Singapore really makes u look like an ungrateful wretch.
As for my previous post to adven7 I am merely pointing out the fact that he is contradicting the local media. No pun intended.
1) I do not see China students in Stansfield / Informatics having their mums around. What i see is a huge amount of China students in Primary, Secondary Schools and Polytechnics(maybe ?) whose mums tag along.
2) PDMMs are technically not Tourists, who spend large amounts of money in a few days' stay.
3) How many of these PDMMs can afford real estates / private properties ? They can't.
So please tell me how most of these PDMMs contribute to Singapore. Note that China nationals do not equal PDMMs. In fact, these PDMMs would have had enough of locals. Do you seriously think they will recommend their family and friends to tour and spend in Singapore ? Nope.
You also mentioned that you trust the local media(state controlled) and ideas(from zzdidi) contradicting it, is a big no-no. Kudos to that.
In fact, i'm waiting to see if these PDMMs and China students scheme (from our ingenious ruling party)even yield results at all.
The bottomline, as i've said, is No Money, Don't Come !
You also mentioned that your friend is hiring PDMMs for his restaurant. Well, this is great. But what happens to their lowly skilled local counterparts ? The local aunties have their pay undercut by these PDMMs and now i see coffeeshops hiring PDMMs who cannot even differentiate between 'Bandung' and 'Milo'.
What most of the posters are unhappy about, are their ungratefulness towards the SG govt. We made concessions and PDMMs still demand for more. Tell me if there are any Indian PDMMs here in SG.
There should be requirements for students who seek education in SG. I even encountered students whom i need consistently to translate for, during my time in poly. These students struggle with English and most locals could barely understand their presentations. -
Well said!Originally posted by SilverPal:I am not blaming all pdmms, nor am I blaming most pdmms. My references were directed at the RELEVANT parties. As said by another forumer, there are pdmms who teach mandarin, are they a burden to our society?
What I am highlighting is that, we should not label singaporeans as evil when pdmms decide to come to singapore nor should we push all the responsibility to singaporeans when these pdmms demand for jobs. Today they demand for jobs, tomorrow they demand for voting rights (since policies affect them), what else will they demand for?
If you want to go to another country, make sure you can find a job first. Many pdmms can do it. Many have done it. Expecting the singapore govt to spoonfeed them with jobs, throw money at them and give in to all their unlimited wants is absurd.
Our govt doesn't even do that for the voters/citizens, do you think they will do it for the pdmms?
As for employers hiring foreigners, that has been disected to the extreme and is not the main focus of this thread. I'm not worried about losing my job to the pdmms, I'm not very good with my hands anyway.
From the way these PDMMs' behaviour and the way the China national's arguments on this subject matter on this thread,
We S'poreans really have to worry of what may hve happened in the future.
they will demand for their political rights when they become citizens who will be the doom day of our next generation in S'pore.
I was in overseas including Brunei for the past 10 years and obey the local laws strictly.Lately. an influx of prostitutes from China on the pretext of tourists not only bring shame to us as overseas chinese and affect also the cultural value of the country people.
I will bring the matter up to the MPs in our GRC and investigate the root of this PDMMs' saga. -
I really pity some good PDMMs situation but pls rmb tat singapore is our home not PDMMs' refugee camp
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U r right! i abide all the laws and regulations of the country in where i stayed overseas and keep quiet and no redress even i was right.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:I really pity some good PDMMs situation but pls rmb tat singapore is our home not PDMMs' refugee camp
Now these PDMMs came here and do illegal business and immoral activities and dare to protest,come on S'poreans!!! we must teach them a lesson ma!!!
On the other hands, our gov should investigate which org or persons let these flies came into our country w/o detection. -
YEA FCUK THEM ALL!!!!!!
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Well, if only matters were that simple. One of the forumities asked if this was just a domestic issue, I guess the answer's pretty obvious.Originally posted by zzzdidi:U r right! i abide all the laws and regulations of the country in where i stayed overseas and keep quiet and no redress even i was right.
Now these PDMMs came here and do illegal business and immoral activities and dare to protest,come on S'poreans!!! we must teach them a lesson ma!!!
On the other hands, our gov should investigate which org or persons let these flies came into our country w/o detection. -
TBH, i have this PDMM in my house (tenant) who brings different guys back quite often. I even saw her husband before.
I'm gonna kick her out real soon. My house is not a PRC wh0re house.
Even my dad is mad about it. -
Poor S'pore! let the china nationals come and go and make $,we then be scolded that we welcomed them with both arms for they had saved our economic.Originally posted by Quincey:Well, if only matters were that simple. One of the forumities asked if this was just a domestic issue, I guess the answer's pretty obvious.
What kind of of logic and these PDMMs are they! Do we need them in the first place????
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Our impressions of PRCs are already not very good, now come this PDMM thingy. Why are we still welcoming them with open arms? Its ironic that while they spend money to let their children study here, they are GAINING back the money from our spore men.
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Can Blueray answer pls?Originally posted by nanren4ever:Our impressions of PRCs are already not very good, now come this PDMM thingy. Why are we still welcoming them with open arms? Its ironic that while they spend money to let their children study here, they are GAINING back the money from our spore men.
We dont need the PDMMs and pls dont overstate yr country PRC which is still a developing country.
PDMMs involved in these illegal and immoral activities not only bring shame to the chinese in China ,we overseas chinese do not feel good as well. -
We are not trying to be racist or anti watever country.
It is just like in America or some other European countries, chinese illegal immigrants flood those places, and some even form local thugs, armed gangs to harass the neighbour. Yes perhaps the target audience of the thugs are not the locals, but how would you as a local feel? How would you feel if some ppls start to sell drugs, or setup seedy massage parlour in your community? Wad would you do, wad will you, howwould you react? Give the prostitutes the "greenlight" and empathize their "great cause"? -
supply and demand.
dont keep blaming the china women.
why are they in the business in the first place? those horny old men have to take the blame too. -
so you suggest
a. castrate the old men
b. send away these PRC prostitues
c. Do both??
wat do u suggest Mr Supply and Demand.
oh yah we dont blame the drug lords too, supply and demand as you say. -
Supply and demand theory doesnot apply here lah!!!Originally posted by dragg:supply and demand.
dont keep blaming the china women.
why are they in the business in the first place? those horny old men have to take the blame too.
The issue is why we let the PDMMs come in here and created such a scene ,besides created social and economic problems in S'pore???