Singapore not ready for terrorist attacks, despite what govt
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i had the displeasure of meeting some people "in the security line"
well, there was this Israeli dude heading the seminar who (i bet he's from Mossad) kept coming back to this point: you have to get MORE PEOPLE on the ground, walking the beat in plainclothes and uniform... CCTVs are useless
however, our guys kept harping on about CCTVs and how they can "save manpower"
in the end, the guy in the seminar showed this "yeah.. right.. i've seen idiots like you" look...
i think herein, is the problem in a nutshell...
the Israelis are THE authority when it comes to preventing terrorist activities and mitigating them...
our guys seem to think they know better with their BS and refusal to listen to good sense... -
I don't know about where the incident you described occured but we do have very close interaction with the Israelis regarding anti-terrorist activities. I have personally met with them and had the opportunity to discuss POI technologies with them. We are quite advanced in developing new technologies to combat the terrorist threat and all these are also co developed with the Israelis.
As for CCTVs and people on the ground, it all boils down to what you are protecting and the manpower level you are willing to commit. How much disruption of daily life are you willing to afford? A person on the ground who is hyper vigilant is worth 20 security cameras with 1 sleepyhead watching. -
israel has suffered so many attacks, singapore has yet to have one.Originally posted by the Bear:i had the displeasure of meeting some people "in the security line"
well, there was this Israeli dude heading the seminar who (i bet he's from Mossad) kept coming back to this point: you have to get MORE PEOPLE on the ground, walking the beat in plainclothes and uniform... CCTVs are useless
however, our guys kept harping on about CCTVs and how they can "save manpower"
in the end, the guy in the seminar showed this "yeah.. right.. i've seen idiots like you" look...
i think herein, is the problem in a nutshell...
the Israelis are THE authority when it comes to preventing terrorist activities and mitigating them...
our guys seem to think they know better with their BS and refusal to listen to good sense...
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Actually, we did suffer from terror attacks during the Konfrontasi period.Originally posted by vito_corleone:israel has suffered so many attacks, singapore has yet to have one.
One of the attacks was the bombing of MacDonald House at Dhoby Ghaut. -
and the refineries in Pulau Bukom by the Japanese nutters...
anyway, Eikei, where i worked, there were 3 people looking at about 30 different monitors...
when the management decided to cut manpower (when we were working with less than skeleton crew already) there was suddenly 1 person looking at the monitors...
the attention span of people looking at monitors is about 12 minutes.. the dude has a 12 hour shift... -
Hahaha they I think they are paying to feel safe. Its so obvious the security people don't spend their time scrutinising the screens. There is a place in Singapore with a few hundred cameras manned by 2 people. I guess its for them to look when something has happened. But then again I guess it depends on what they are using the cameras for... some use it mostly to check movement of people at night where one change in a monitor will definitely attract attention. We have cameras that will alert people if there are changes to the scenery too.Originally posted by the Bear:and the refineries in Pulau Bukom by the Japanese nutters...
anyway, Eikei, where i worked, there were 3 people looking at about 30 different monitors...
when the management decided to cut manpower (when we were working with less than skeleton crew already) there was suddenly 1 person looking at the monitors...
the attention span of people looking at monitors is about 12 minutes.. the dude has a 12 hour shift... -
technically its malaysia's problem since singapore was part of malaysia during konfrantasiOriginally posted by fudgester:Actually, we did suffer from terror attacks during the Konfrontasi period.
One of the attacks was the bombing of MacDonald House at Dhoby Ghaut. -
Save money now, spend more later if it ever strikes.Originally posted by the Bear:i had the displeasure of meeting some people "in the security line"
well, there was this Israeli dude heading the seminar who (i bet he's from Mossad) kept coming back to this point: you have to get MORE PEOPLE on the ground, walking the beat in plainclothes and uniform... CCTVs are useless
however, our guys kept harping on about CCTVs and how they can "save manpower"
in the end, the guy in the seminar showed this "yeah.. right.. i've seen idiots like you" look...
i think herein, is the problem in a nutshell...
the Israelis are THE authority when it comes to preventing terrorist activities and mitigating them...
our guys seem to think they know better with their BS and refusal to listen to good sense...
There's only one reason why they think they know better. We never had been striked before, whereas in Israel, despite what they do, terrorist attacks happen. So they treat whatever this Israel guy says as rubbish. -
come to think of it, CCTVs can only help so much...take some stones and break it...what can u see thus?
plain old way of walk about is still necessary and perhaps more "preventive" -
u forgot another thing.Originally posted by foxwalk:Going by the recent report of shortages of hospital beds, it is obvious that we are prepared for any terrorist attack and are ill-equipped to save the wounded should such a disaster occurs.
There was a report in the news last week about a woman having to wait for 24 hours at TTSH before she could get a bed. Before that she was simply lying on those trolley beds without even a pillow, while others like here were put in the same crowded place. She could not get a bed in B2, and not even all the other classes when her daughter tried to, simply because all the beds are filled up. Not even other hospitals e.g. SGH and NUH. According to the hospitals, it is a seasonal thing that beds are hard to come by during this peak period when many come down with flu and elderly with pneumonia. They were even reporting a hospital bed take-up rate of 80-90% !!
How then, can we cope with a terrorist attack, if the terrorists are smart enough to attack at a time, the "seasonal" period in the year when hospital beds are hard to come by?
I personally encountered this serious shortage of hospital beds when my father was admitted. They had to put him in isolation ward simply because there was no more bed, and my poor elderly mother had to wheel him there herself because there was "manpower shortage".
Well, there wouldn't be, perhaps, if they don't admit people without checking properly. One day after my father was admitted, he was discharged as the doctors couldn't do the necessary checks on him as the lab was closed.
Why then, did they admit him unnecessarily? Is it to milk money out of us??
Don't even get me started on the decaying standards of healthcare here.
The truth remains though, that much more has to be done before Singapore starts talking about being ready for terrorist attacks.
Don't trumpet something untrue.
ugly singaporeans these days will rush into the lift without even giving way to the paramedics carrying wounded or unconscious patients from HDB or shopping centres.
they'll also not give way to ambulance on the road.
do u think we still need a bed? -
honestly, which country in the world is READY for a terrosirt attack?
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Don't you know the majority of our civil servants (no offence to you) are idiots who seem to think the best of their own plans and when a SME is standing in front of them talking from experience, this hubris becomes auto-blinkers.Originally posted by the Bear:i had the displeasure of meeting some people "in the security line"
well, there was this Israeli dude heading the seminar who (i bet he's from Mossad) kept coming back to this point: you have to get MORE PEOPLE on the ground, walking the beat in plainclothes and uniform... CCTVs are useless
however, our guys kept harping on about CCTVs and how they can "save manpower"
in the end, the guy in the seminar showed this "yeah.. right.. i've seen idiots like you" look...
i think herein, is the problem in a nutshell...
the Israelis are THE authority when it comes to preventing terrorist activities and mitigating them...
our guys seem to think they know better with their BS and refusal to listen to good sense...
Where has all the cow-sense gone to? -
Hahaha if a CCTV is broken at a facility, you can't imagine how forceful the reaction will be... within a few minutes the whole standby force will swarm that camera.Originally posted by tiggersgd:come to think of it, CCTVs can only help so much...take some stones and break it...what can u see thus?
plain old way of walk about is still necessary and perhaps more "preventive"
Anyway I think after so many years, people are getting complacent with regards to security, even security agencies. -
and it isn't about security breach... it's about how expensive the replacement is
strangely, i asked this of the "security" fellas once... so, this CCTV system with all the connections to whoever and whatever, wired up, cameras, off-site recording, monitors, blah blah.. will actually cost more than training and hiring good people to be on the ground..
why don't we train and hire good people to walk the ground?
i never got an answerOriginally posted by Eikei:Hahaha if a CCTV is broken at a facility, you can't imagine how forceful the reaction will be... within a few minutes the whole standby force will swarm that camera.
Anyway I think after so many years, people are getting complacent with regards to security, even security agencies. -
Not enough manpower is usually the answer. Depends on what level of protection is offered to the particular place really... there are many different planning considerations.
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reminds me of the blasted MRT NE-Line...
it costs more to make them fully automated and driverless than it is to provide jobs to some drivers...
but they go with the driverless system anyway
hi-tech "solutions" to non-existent problems which cause even more real problems -
I think the foresight is the upfront cost is high for driverless and fully automated but as years go by, the cost will be lowered due to lesser manpower needed except for repair and maintenance crew of cuz.Originally posted by the Bear:reminds me of the blasted MRT NE-Line...
it costs more to make them fully automated and driverless than it is to provide jobs to some drivers...
but they go with the driverless system anyway
hi-tech "solutions" to non-existent problems which cause even more real problems
I was guessing to go driver-less was one to cut cost for the long run and not for short run. Afterall the life span of NE line like all MRT line should be forecasted to last at least 20 years? Disagree? -
But people will complain that you are not interested in your security of you don't have up to date systems so they end up upgrading their cameras/systems and so on. Irony.
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nope.. not a chance...
you think for one moment the vendors are going to let you get away without a hugeass "maintenance contract" and endless upgrades?Originally posted by sohguanh:I think the foresight is the upfront cost is high for driverless and fully automated but as years go by, the cost will be lowered due to lesser manpower needed except for repair and maintenance crew of cuz.
I was guessing to go driver-less was one to cut cost for the long run and not for short run. Afterall the life span of NE line like all MRT line should be forecasted to last at least 20 years? Disagree? -
I can speak for IT systems cuz I am in this line. Usually when my company ask for vendor for systems, inside our request, we specifically request for the source code that came along. The strategy is simple. We do not intend to be held ransom by that vendor ONLY. If possible we can use that set of source code and refer to another vendor for future upgrades etc.Originally posted by the Bear:nope.. not a chance...
you think for one moment the vendors are going to let you get away without a hugeass "maintenance contract" and endless upgrades?
The best if your own local sporeans can do the enhancement and upgrades but the problem is there are only that many good sporean programmer ard to look and understand the source code to do further enhancement.
So the customer have to depend on and keep on feeding the vendor money to sustain your own business operation. This is a very bad model as you are being held ransom. However to break from this model, can you recruit competent programmers in-house to do the job? This is crucial to breaking the ransom model.
Most sporeans can do the hardware task for replacing etc ... but when delving deep into the source code for software or even hardware circuitry within the hardware component, we find not so many takers. So who to blame?
Blame DSTA, DSO cuz they absorb too many good sporean R&D engineers into their institution leaving so little outside to service MRT and watever company lines
Sporeans muz understand high level view is NOT enuff... if need to be muz go deep down into the innards to fully understand and control the system so as not to be held ransom by vendor and FT and of cuz endless demand of so called maintenance and upgrade costing. -
Isn't this funny?Originally posted by sohguanh:I can speak for IT systems cuz I am in this line. Usually when my company ask for vendor for systems, inside our request, we specifically request for the source code that came along. The strategy is simple. We do not intend to be held ransom by that vendor ONLY. If possible we can use that set of source code and refer to another vendor for future upgrades etc.
The best if your own local sporeans can do the enhancement and upgrades but the problem is there are only that many good sporean programmer ard to look and understand the source code to do further enhancement.
So the customer have to depend on and keep on feeding the vendor money to sustain your own business operation. This is a very bad model as you are being held ransom. However to break from this model, can you recruit competent programmers in-house to do the job? This is crucial to breaking the ransom model.
Most sporeans can do the hardware task for replacing etc ... but when delving deep into the source code for software or even hardware circuitry within the hardware component, we find not so many takers. So who to blame?
Blame DSTA, DSO cuz they absorb too many good sporean R&D engineers into their institution leaving so little outside to service MRT and watever company lines
Sporeans muz understand high level view is NOT enuff... if need to be muz go deep down into the innards to fully understand and control the system so as not to be held ransom by vendor and FT and of cuz endless demand of so called maintenance and upgrade costing.
There is NO WAY, we can break away from this so called Ransom model of commerce. In fact, each and every one of us are living under a Ransom model deviced by our gov!
And there's NOTHING we can do about it! That's the way it is, big fishes eats small fishes. -
I think in here highly risky to terrorist attack considering the fact JI is still much intact although its head is already killed.