Are you happy?!?
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If you must know...Originally posted by zzzdidi:Have u married? If yes,how many members in yr family???
Pls answer me b4 i answer u!
I'm single, so my average monthly expenses come up to... about 2.5k. And out of that, roughly 2k goes to pay for my housing loan(I'm not touching my CPF at all) and maintainence fees. And since I've been renting my place out for about the same amount, that means my net monthly expenditure is more or less around $500. That covers commuting by public transport, meals, and stuff. Of course, a few months are much higher but only because I do things like spend money on luxuries. These are non-essential expenses that can be dropped anytime.
Now, if you count my whole family, making it 5 of us, we never touched the 10k per month mark either, even paying school fees(all the way up to university) for me and my siblings. None of us managed to get any scholarships. My grandparents are financially independent though.
Thats why I was scratching my head over your monthly expenditure. -
Excuse me, its not just the lower educated and unskilled that can't find decent employment. Even grads are having difficulty, and not becos we are choosy, mind you. Some grads i know have spent more than a year looking for jobs. For poly grads, dont even have to say...Originally posted by ShutterBug:Actually, the poor just want a chance in life here; ability to send their kids to school, and basically ability to find decent employment.
With foreigners saturating the blue-collar market, our lower educated and unskilled workers stand no chance. It isn't true ANYMORE, that locals don't like minial and manual labor occupations.
Times have changed, people's mindset have changed, but our government seems to stay the same. -
Haha,yr parents cover 4 u lah!Originally posted by av98m:If you must know...
I'm single, so my average monthly expenses come up to... about 2.5k. And out of that, roughly 2k goes to pay for my housing loan(I'm not touching my CPF at all) and maintainence fees. And since I've been renting my place out for about the same amount, that means my net monthly expenditure is more or less around $500. That covers commuting by public transport, meals, and stuff. Of course, a few months are much higher but only because I do things like spend money on luxuries. These are non-essential expenses that can be dropped anytime.
Now, if you count my whole family, making it 5 of us, we never touched the 10k per month mark either, even paying school fees(all the way up to university) for me and my siblings. None of us managed to get any scholarships. My grandparents are financially independent though.
Thats why I was scratching my head over your monthly expenditure.
I think u r the same age as my son at the age of about 25 years old whoes grl frd is also a doc and staying with us in order to save cost of accomodation.
we are living in an apartment for we are not qualified for a HDB flat due to our combine incomes.
Let me show u our family expenses as follows:
1) Electricity and etc S$300
2) Maintaiance fee S4250
3) car depreciation incl COE -
why cant they find a job then?Originally posted by expiringpoet:Excuse me, its not just the lower educated and unskilled that can't find decent employment. Even grads are having difficulty, and not becos we are choosy, mind you. Some grads i know have spent more than a year looking for jobs. For poly grads, dont even have to say... -
Haha,yr parents cover 4 u lah!Originally posted by av98m:If you must know...
I'm single, so my average monthly expenses come up to... about 2.5k. And out of that, roughly 2k goes to pay for my housing loan(I'm not touching my CPF at all) and maintainence fees. And since I've been renting my place out for about the same amount, that means my net monthly expenditure is more or less around $500. That covers commuting by public transport, meals, and stuff. Of course, a few months are much higher but only because I do things like spend money on luxuries. These are non-essential expenses that can be dropped anytime.
Now, if you count my whole family, making it 5 of us, we never touched the 10k per month mark either, even paying school fees(all the way up to university) for me and my siblings. None of us managed to get any scholarships. My grandparents are financially independent though.
Thats why I was scratching my head over your monthly expenditure.
I think u r the same age as my son at the age of about 25 years old whoes grl frd is also a doc and staying with us in order to save cost of accomodation.
we are living in an apartment for we are not qualified for a HDB flat due to our combine incomes.
Let me show u our family expenses p.m are as follows:
1) Electricity and etc S$300 p.m
2) Maintaiance fee S$300
3) car depreciation incl COE S$2,000
4) Road tax n Insurance S$200
5) petrol S$300
6) Foods S$500
7) Daily expenses incl ERP N car park S$1000
Maid's levy n salary n food s$1000
9) House mortage loan and car loan S$4000
10) Misc S$ 500
We hve a family of eight members and all are working including my parents.
I am hoping the above figure will not worry u to set up a familiy,but we hve to tell the truth our salaries are just enough to pay every months bills as said hands to the mouth.
I hve to admit my eldest son contribute the most income to our family and we are the middle class family can only survive only! how about those w/o children supports!!! -
Our jobs had been stolen by foreigners like u !!! PRCOriginally posted by dragg:why cant they find a job then?
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what makes you think i am a PRC?Originally posted by zzzdidi:Our jobs had been stolen by foreigners like u !!! PRC 
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My parents cover ? Cover what? I pay for my share for utilities and groceries while I stay with them. Their apartment is fully paid for(We've been staying in the same place for about 20 years now).Originally posted by zzzdidi:Haha,yr parents cover 4 u lah!
I think u r the same age as my son at the age of about 25 years old whoes grl frd is also a doc and staying with us in order to save cost of accomodation.
we are living in an apartment for we are not qualified for a HDB flat due to our combine incomes.
Let me show u our family expenses p.m are as follows:
1) Electricity and etc S$300 p.m
2) Maintaiance fee S$300
3) car depreciation incl COE S$2,000
4) Road tax n Insurance S$200
5) petrol S$300
6) Foods S$500
7) Daily expenses incl ERP N car park S$1000 Maid's levy n salary n food s$1000
9) House mortage loan and car loan S$4000
10) Misc S$ 500
We hve a family of eight members and all are working including my parents.
I am hoping the above figure will not worry u to set up a familiy,but we hve to tell the truth our salaries are just enough to pay every months bills as said hands to the mouth.
I hve to admit my eldest son contribute the most income to our family and we are the middle class family can only survive only! how about those w/o children supports!!!
From your numbers the big difference is that I neither drive nor hire a maid. And they form a pretty significant portion of your monthly expenses.
I will say that the HDB income ceiling is pretty damned idiotic though. I'd much rather buy a cheaper HDB flat if I could.
So here's a suggestion, dump the car, or cars and the maid. Use public transportation, and call for a cab if you need to. That will save you a few thousand dollars and everyone can breathe easier.
But of course, taking public transport means squeezing into crowded buses and trains with the rest of us but hey, you save a lot of money. -
Remember at 12.14 pm yr post on 80 PDMMs gather at CE,Originally posted by dragg:what makes you think i am a PRC?
U said I am who u think I am?
Feel better!
You are taking side of the PDMMs and making us very unhappy even though these PDMMs involved in illegal activities and dare to protest,go to hell,these PRC -
Thinking of the opportunity cost to u if u are staying alone .Yr salary cant even buy a 4 rooms flat together with yr own children and both of u hve to work at least 12 hours a day to survive,if u are married with kids.Originally posted by av98m:My parents cover ? Cover what? I pay for my share for utilities and groceries while I stay with them. Their apartment is fully paid for(We've been staying in the same place for about 20 years now).
From your numbers the big difference is that I neither drive nor hire a maid. And they form a pretty significant portion of your monthly expenses.
My wife and me both of us earned S$2000 each p.m when we graduated in 1983 but the 4 rooms flat in Hougang is S$50k then and is S$170k at Sengang now.
My son and grlfrd not even dare to think of a pte apartment and a car even they r trainee docs -
no I'm not, I think it's a philosophical discussion rather than a political one.Originally posted by zzzdidi:U r missing the issue here!!!
We are dicussing why people in Singapore a developed country and ranked the least happy people in Asia countries????
There are some pretty successful people in this forum, and some not so successful ones, many of us are saddled with the vagaries of daily life, payments, debts, mortgage, whatever, but these are choices that we make. I find it weird and ironic that some people would think that any success that they have was achieved by their own personal efforts, but when it's the other way, say when you loose your job or am saddled with debts, it's always the goverment's fault ...
since you mentioned your own situation, I'll tell you mine, my father is a civil servant (he teaches at one of the post-secondary institutions in Singapore) our family has a nice terrace house, a low end landed property if you may, my parents have put through my sister and I through university, and during our father to son talks, he's told me about his choices. Some of his friends and colleagues didn't managed to latch onto the population boom, but they certainly were able to travel a lot more, drive a flashier car with the more disposable income that they have, in the end, it's your own personal choice. A car is not a luxury item, a nice house is not a luxury item, it's up to each of us to make that choice, and to live with the "consequences" of our decisions, no one compels anyone to make that stretch, take on debts and payments that one can barely afford. My father could have, of course, taken the money spent on me and my siblings' education and gotten a fancier car or something (like some of my friends here, father drives a beemer SUV, son takes out an education loan and waits tables on weekends) Harsh and pompous words from a young man if you may, but I see some of my already working friends ordering new cars within a year of going onto the work force, and complaining about debts and payments that leaves them with nearly nothing every month (and mounting credit card debts)
Do you think the people in the backwaters of asia have as much material things as we do ? ... doesn't that say something ? that happiness is not about the amount of material things that one accumulates ? in the end, it's up to each of us to balance our needs and wants with what we can afford ... I'm sorry, I just couldn't see the connection here some are trying to make here -
It is a political discussion here!Why the cost of living here is so high and we hve to struggle so much to make a living with the necessity ie a roof, foods ,transportations etc.Originally posted by Fatum:no I'm not, I think it's a philosophical discussion rather than a political one.
There are some pretty successful people in this forum, and some not so successful ones, many of us are saddled with the vagaries of daily life, payments, debts, mortgage, whatever, but these are choices that we make. I find it weird and ironic that some people would think that any success that they have was achieved by their own personal efforts, but when it's the other way, say when you loose your job or am saddled with debts, it's always the goverment's fault ...
since you mentioned your own situation, I'll tell you mine, my father is a civil servant (he teaches at one of the post-secondary institutions in Singapore) our family has a nice terrace house, a low end landed property if you may, my parents have put through my sister and I through university, and during our father to son talks, he's told me about his choices. Some of his friends and colleagues didn't managed to latch onto the population boom, but they certainly were able to travel a lot more, drive a flashier car with the more disposable income that they have, in the end, it's your own personal choice. A car is not a luxury item, a nice house is not a luxury item, it's up to each of us to make that choice, and to live with the "consequences" of our decisions, no one compels anyone to make that stretch, take on debts and payments that one can barely afford. My father could have, of course, taken the money spent on me and my siblings' education and gotten a fancier car or something (like some of my friends here, father drives a beemer SUV, son takes out an education loan and waits tables on weekends) Harsh and pompous words from a young man if you may, but I see some of my already working friends ordering new cars within a year of going onto the work force, and complaining about debts and payments that leaves them with nearly nothing every month (and mounting credit card debts)
Do you think the people in the backwaters of asia have as much material things as we do ? ... doesn't that say something ? that happiness is not about the amount of material things that one accumulates ? in the end, it's up to each of us to balance our needs and wants with what we can afford ... I'm sorry, I just couldn't see the connection here some are trying to make here
Our HDB flat prices had increases by 3 times so as the other expenses but our salaries are the same as 1980s,Why???>?
Yr working frds are not the ones whom we discussed here,we are talking about average sporean who has work but still can not make their ends meet. -
take sides is an overstatement.Originally posted by zzzdidi:Remember at 12.14 pm yr post on 80 PDMMs gather at CE,
U said I am who u think I am?
Feel better!
You are taking side of the PDMMs and making us very unhappy even though these PDMMs involved in illegal activities and dare to protest,go to hell,these PRC
just trying to see things from different views.
anyway i am not a PRC.
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Well its all about managing your overhead isn't it. If I choose to stay alone, then I forgo the rent and pay the mortgage from my own pocket. If I get married, me and my wife can split the monthly payments. Or, if I'm still single by the time I'm 35, I may decide to sell the place and buy a flat on the resale market instead. Or, me and the missus may decide to sell the private apartment anyway and buy a resale flat, and so on. Now, if I add a car to the equation, then things suddenly become tighter. Add a maid, and it gets worse and before long I'll be totally stressed out. Hence these 2 items are not on the menu for me.Originally posted by zzzdidi:Thinking of the opportunity cost to u if u are staying alone .Yr salary cant even buy a 4 rooms flat together with yr own children and both of u hve to work at least 12 hours a day to survive,if u are married with kids.
My wife and me both of us earned S$2000 each p.m when we graduated in 1983 but the 4 rooms flat in Hougang is S$50k then and is S$170k at Sengang now.
My son and grlfrd not even dare to think of a pte apartment and a car even they r trainee docs
In your case, chuck the car and the maid, take the bus mrt, and occasional taxi and suddenly you will have shaved your expenses by more than a third. -
of course it is, this is the speaker's corner after all. (cynical smile)Originally posted by zzzdidi:It is a political discussion here!Why the cost of living here is so high and we hve to struggle so much to make a living with the necessity ie a roof, foods ,transportations etc.
Our HDB flat prices had increases by 3 times so as the other expenses but our salaries are the same as 1980s,Why???>?
Yr working frds are not the ones whom we discussed here,we are talking about average sporean who has work but still can not make their ends meet.
I think my friends are pretty average, some of them are poly grads, some of them are uni grads, and some are hokkien pengs, some of them have started families, bought 5 room flats, and new cars, and whines every day about "money no enough" ... is there inflation ? yes there is, is there an underbelly of Singapore, where people make barely enough to eat ? yes there is. But many many people can certainly make enough to get by comfortably. I can never imagine why an army officer like my friend, who makes a few Ks a month, and with a young wifey in the civil service, can whine about having not enough money, untill you see the flatscreen TV, the new cars (yes, two of them), and the new child that popped out before the last one was weaned.
now if your purpose is to point what you and I have written as a result of "failed goverment policies", then I guess we are talking a different language here, and I rest my case. -
Actually I am not very happy. =( Life in Singapore is so stressful. If I were to breach that breaking point, I guess the best solution is sucide.
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We hve done our calculations on the transportation cost,do u know that it costs us 25 cents (min) when we stayed in a 4 rooms HDB flat at HG in 1996 and now we paid S$0.95 (min). we hve to change at least three buses and/or MRT to get to our destinations during the morning rush hours.In term of time saving and costing,it is really not worth a while for we are living in the east and my son working place is NUH who has to reach there by 8am.Our car is used for the morning hours only and we wil be returning home either by buses and/or MRT.Originally posted by av98m:Well its all about managing your overhead isn't it. If I choose to stay alone, then I forgo the rent and pay the mortgage from my own pocket. If I get married, me and my wife can split the monthly payments. Or, if I'm still single by the time I'm 35, I may decide to sell the place and buy a flat on the resale market instead. Or, me and the missus may decide to sell the private apartment anyway and buy a resale flat, and so on. Now, if I add a car to the equation, then things suddenly become tighter. Add a maid, and it gets worse and before long I'll be totally stressed out. Hence these 2 items are not on the menu for me.
In your case, chuck the car and the maid, take the bus mrt, and occasional taxi and suddenly you will have shaved your expenses by more than a third.
For the maid,we cannot do w/o her for no one wouldl clean our house and wash our clothings during the weekdays when all of us are out of the house and returned home we would be dam tired!!! -
Hey dragg, ISN'T a PRC.Originally posted by zzzdidi:Our jobs had been stolen by foreigners like u !!! PRC -
I disagree with your so called necessities. You cannot justify time savings to owning a car juz becuz you need take a few buses to reach your workplace. If that is your argument, then you are basically using money (in the form of feeding a car) to get convenience. So you cannot complain here cuz there ARE ppl who really take a few buses and they still do not opt for a car.Originally posted by zzzdidi:we hve to change at least three buses and/or MRT to get to our destinations during the morning rush hours.In term of time saving and costing,it is really not worth a while for we are living in the east and my son working place is NUH who has to reach there by 8am.Our car is used for the morning hours only and we wil be returning home either by buses and/or MRT.
For the maid,we cannot do w/o her for no one wouldl clean our house and wash our clothings during the weekdays when all of us are out of the house and returned home we would be dam tired!!!
The maid is another excuse. Becuz you got a maid, you have to work harder outside to feed your maid at home correct? Suppose one of your member sacrifice job to do the household chores? Of cuz you would argue the money earned outside is more than what you pay the maid.
Car and maid are not necessities depending on how one prioritise their needs. By making some of your needs as necessities you find out you need pay so much more and that is when you complain money not enuff. -
The problem with ppl who work for the gahmen is there is a tendency to spend more cuz bonus every year is wait for news announcement and only recently there is retrenchment going on in civil service. Before that, it is a iron rice bowl. With such strong support, it is no wonder they spent more than wat they need.Originally posted by Fatum:I can never imagine why an army officer like my friend, who makes a few Ks a month, and with a young wifey in the civil service, can whine about having not enough money, untill you see the flatscreen TV, the new cars (yes, two of them), and the new child that popped out before the last one was weaned.
Signed on regulars have limited career life span and if those regulars do not save for a rainy day, they will find themselves out of job after their contract expires and no longer renewed. Those money earned earlier can only tide them over a certain period but at the rate they splurge on condo and cars and maid I doubt much is left over.
I was a former gahmen employee and I roughly know the mentality and mindset in those civil services. If you saved well you are catered for retirement but if you spend like water you will regret later. -
You know, like it or not, we are all dragged into this huge Rat Race started by our founding father.. you know who...
As for the Money Not Enough Syndrome, someone said it right about basically wanting too much in life and out of life. I'm guilty of a couple of luxuries at home too - large LCD TV on the wall, expensive pro-music equipment, blah blah.. but the gist is, we ought to know how deep we can safely wade into our lives' expectations, but key point in discussion I believe is HOW HAPPY ARE THE REST OF US WHO ARE MINDFUL OF OUR OWN SPENDINGS?
Personally I'm not implying that our government hasn't done any good, or that they're good for nothing, but I am however quite annoyed with the Rat Race which is turning into a Triathlon now.
People here have become so tightly tuned into it, they're like over tuned violin strings about to burst! And I'm talking about those who aren't over-indulging in life. Just bringing up kids and supporting a family is enough to give them Heart Attacks, Hypertension, Diabetes, Cancer, etc.. list goes on.
And then cost and standards of healthcare is another issue. I mean, it's so 'number one', 'advanced' and 'Hub' centric, but lacking in beds in all public hospitals???
I can't understand this one.. and as for CPF - there is NOTHING to understand about that. Like someone in here who bought a flat, rent it out to recover cost while renting room outside to get by so that there's sufficient CPF for old age.
If CPF is what it is supposed to meant for, why do people need to resort to such complex arrangements just so the funds within it is substantial enough to get by in old age???
I think it's pretty much an illusion of a much grander illusion. -
well said!!!Originally posted by ShutterBug:You know, like it or not, we are all dragged into this huge Rat Race started by our founding father.. you know who...
As for the Money Not Enough Syndrome, someone said it right about basically wanting too much in life and out of life. I'm guilty of a couple of luxuries at home too - large LCD TV on the wall, expensive pro-music equipment, blah blah.. but the gist is, we ought to know how deep we can safely wade into our lives' expectations, but key point in discussion I believe is HOW HAPPY ARE THE REST OF US WHO ARE MINDFUL OF OUR OWN SPENDINGS?
Personally I'm not implying that our government hasn't done any good, or that they're good for nothing, but I am however quite annoyed with the Rat Race which is turning into a Triathlon now.
People here have become so tightly tuned into it, they're like over tuned violin strings about to burst! And I'm talking about those who aren't over-indulging in life. Just bringing up kids and supporting a family is enough to give them Heart Attacks, Hypertension, Diabetes, Cancer, etc.. list goes on.
And then cost and standards of healthcare is another issue. I mean, it's so 'number one', 'advanced' and 'Hub' centric, but lacking in beds in all public hospitals???
I can't understand this one.. and as for CPF - there is NOTHING to understand about that. Like someone in here who bought a flat, rent it out to recover cost while renting room outside to get by so that there's sufficient CPF for old age.
If CPF is what it is supposed to meant for, why do people need to resort to such complex arrangements just so the funds within it is substantial enough to get by in old age???
I think it's pretty much an illusion of a much grander illusion.
middle and lower classes of Sporeans are squeezed to survive and yet S$600k p.a salary is peanut,it really draws us mad!!!!worst still 30k plus on credit card expenses on company a/c is the small matter!!!.
My God!!! Wat is this mah??? Is it very unfair? the more we think of our future ,we are dam worrying about the future of Singapore!!!
Telling the gov,we are not kids and be fooled around with yr sweet talk and payments during the election period.
We want happiness orelse life is meaningless!!! shame on u S'pore!!! -
okie, how do you propose that the goverment give you "happiness" then ? ....Originally posted by zzzdidi:well said!!!
middle and lower classes of Sporeans are squeezed to survive and yet S$600k p.a salary is peanut,it really draws us mad!!!!worst still 30k plus on credit card expenses on company a/c is the small matter!!!.
My God!!! Wat is this mah??? Is it very unfair? the more we think of our future ,we are dam worrying about the future of Singapore!!!
Telling the gov,we are not kids and be fooled around with yr sweet talk and payments during the election period.
We want happiness orelse life is meaningless!!! shame on u S'pore!!! -
First of all reducing the cost of living!!!Originally posted by Fatum:okie, how do you propose that the goverment give you "happiness" then ? ....
Secondly, give the due to the old folks for their contribution to the country.
Thirdly, increase the subsidiseation to the education fee from Pri to Uni.
Last but not the least recongnise our efforts in building the nation and not just the GRLs and fooled us like a kid.
How to do these? i dont know pls ask the ministers they are paid a million p.y plus pension for life. -
While it is good that Singapore and its people excels globally. But our gov shouldn't forget those who merely just wants to be able to make a living, meaning to be able to make enough to survive and save some for old age.
We are not comprised of bright and successful entrepreneurs, scholars, CEOs, and whatever. Even in motor racing, there are races for slower or lower capacity cars. Hence to say, those whose time is running out, and or who simply either don't have money or what it takes in terms of intellect to keep up and "progress together", need a way to carve out their living in a MEANINGFUL way, or in ways they know how.
From observation, if things don't change, Singapore in decades to come will be made up of foreigners, and locals of the older generation will be shipping out, cashing out their savings and living out their old age elsewhere - where the money in savings counts into larger digits. The younger generations here will be globally mobile, and can take flight anytime as they will have their nest already setup elsewhere.
Likeliness of this happening is very high.