hey everybody, how about making one BIG petition to the MIW?
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hey ppl,
I hv been in this forum for quite a long time already, and I see that many of us have good opinions to share, the only problem being that they are a little scattered and messy. What I wish to propose is that we post up our major suggestions here in this thread, and then a few of us consolidate this into one massive online petition, and post the url - via ST Forum, TNP Speakup, TODAY VOICES or email-to-FBU - to the govt and/or to the public. Then we can see how much support we will get i.e. how many signatures. That will be far more effective, I think, then to continue ranting on here.
Cheers,
the pikamaster (who is trying to maintain his political optimism)
P.S.: btw, for all JC/Poly/ITEC students, how many of you are interested in forming an informal organization - online at least - to promote student unity among all our 3 educational streams? I'm thinking of sth like an online community for all students... -
wait some friendly ppl will coming knocking on yr door soon
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*on the way there*
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people of 3 streams to come together? JC/Poly/ITE???
those 3 groups of people have different mentalities altogether. not trying to be elitist but it's a fact.
moreover, u can't get enuff of supporters here . this is a wrong place to be in for real-time petitions. -
Lol... I'm not owrking for a rebellion or even a protest; a humble petition is making use of our feedback system already provided by the govt.Originally posted by Ito_^:wait some friendly ppl will coming knocking on yr door soon
the (amused) pikamaster -
Gwang,Originally posted by Gwangetto:people of 3 streams to come together? JC/Poly/ITE???
those 3 groups of people have different mentalities altogether. not trying to be elitist but it's a fact.
moreover, u can't get enuff of supporters here . this is a wrong place to be in for real-time petitions.
1) where are you from? (JC/Poly/ITEC)?
2) I am not asking for a merger of streams. Different mentalities are a result of different environment. ANd I seriously think, all students have different mentalities; the different blocs aren't exactly homogeneous within.
I think the problem is not so much mentalities; the problem is the attitudes they have toward each other. These attitudes are of course not arising from their own fault; rather, it is our entire socio-educational system which has produced it. These are misconceptions (e.g. that HC students come to school in red-carpeted limos) that have arisen from historical isolation.
But - contrary to what you may think - I trust there is a desire for the students of different streams to integrate with each other. interestingly, this was oen of the suggestions put up at a recent feedback/ policy-proposing session involving students from all three streams. And the team of students proposing social integration (not academic, because obviously MOE won't bend to that) were made up of students from all three streams. In addition, at the Q&A session with the Minister, integration between students of different streams was one of the runnign themes through the individual questions. The audience, of course, consisted of students from all three streams.
Yahh, so be a little more optimistic man.
the pikamaster -
Lol
no other response? 
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sorry, on armchair critics in this forum.
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*sigh* is there nobody with any initiative?Originally posted by dragg:sorry, on armchair critics in this forum. -
oh well...Originally posted by pikamaster:*sigh* is there nobody with any initiative? -
pikamaster,
i don't want to be a wet blanket but i believe it is a waste of time giving feedback to the govt who thinks that it knows best. -
student unity among the 3 streams ?
But who would bother ? -
Haven't you noticed the "divide and rule" mentality that the MOE has adopted over the years?
Realising that it might be detrimental to the economic competitiveness due to sidelining each stream,it now tries to build "unity" in a managed fashion.
Of course, having a really groundswell effect of unity from all segments of the student population is a prelude to greater civil society. Thing is, we are progressive and intellectual people trying to get those who are breathing rareified oxygen to slowly learn what real civil participation is.
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hahaOriginally posted by lotus999:pikamaster,
i don't want to be a wet blanket but i believe it is a waste of time giving feedback to the govt who thinks that it knows best. it's not juz for the govt... it's to show all the cynical westerners that Singaproeans are not unweaned cowards as well... to put it in perspective. And anw, I think that there will be enough public support such that the govt will not turn down the petition too easily. But we do need to take the initiative...
the (hopeful) pikamaster -
I think quite alot will, if you ask them carefully enough...Originally posted by Sagara:student unity among the 3 streams ?
But who would bother ? -
even if you do, i don't think they give a rat's ass
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Laser,Originally posted by LazerLordz:Haven't you noticed the "divide and rule" mentality that the MOE has adopted over the years?
Realising that it might be detrimental to the economic competitiveness due to sidelining each stream,it now tries to build "unity" in a managed fashion.
Of course, having a really groundswell effect of unity from all segments of the student population is a prelude to greater civil society. Thing is, we are progressive and intellectual people trying to get those who are breathing rareified oxygen to slowly learn what real civil participation is.
I may be a student, but I'm not blind. And I'm not being a govt/MOE stooge, in case you are wondering. It is true MOE agrees to such an idea, but it seems that currently the Minister is interested in more decentralization, and this is where such an initiative can come in; talk about decentralization to the students.
Correct, we are progressive and intellectual, that is why I'm not organizaing a demagogic rebellion (which would DEFINITELY get the ISD knocking on my door). But we do need to reach out to the student population, and more than that build some form of minimal but genuine cohesion. Hmmm... I think I'll move this sub-discussion to another thread... since the petition idea seems to be dying after all...
the pikamaster -
I'm afraid you misinterpreted my post.Originally posted by pikamaster:Laser,
I may be a student, but I'm not blind. And I'm not being a govt/MOE stooge, in case you are wondering. It is true MOE agrees to such an idea, but it seems that currently the Minister is interested in more decentralization, and this is where such an initiative can come in; talk about decentralization to the students.
Correct, we are progressive and intellectual, that is why I'm not organizaing a demagogic rebellion (which would DEFINITELY get the ISD knocking on my door). But we do need to reach out to the student population, and more than that build some form of minimal but genuine cohesion. Hmmm... I think I'll move this sub-discussion to another thread... since the petition idea seems to be dying after all...
the pikamaster
I'm more concerned on how the MOE has divided up the streams for years.For reasons and opinions of my own, I feel there is a political slant to this concept of streaming.
Whether it is intended or unintended, I'm not too sure.
Genuine cohesion is definitely welcome, we are after all, 4 Million in numbers. Outranked by many cities, let alone countries. -
Oh sryOriginally posted by LazerLordz:I'm afraid you misinterpreted my post.
I'm more concerned on how the MOE has divided up the streams for years.For reasons and opinions of my own, I feel there is a political slant to this concept of streaming.
Whether it is intended or unintended, I'm not too sure.
Genuine cohesion is definitely welcome, we are after all, 4 Million in numbers. Outranked by many cities, let alone countries.. I didn't get any political slant from my convo /w the Minister, but I see what you are getting at. Tharman himself was rather regretful that such a situation existed - he (I can't say for TCH and predecessors, except maybe for Goh Keng Swee) is genuine to the idea of dividing students according to abilities in certain fields. He exprressed his desire to move toward a "talent-based" streaming system rather than a "subject-based" streaming system i.e. more course differentiation. ANd he indeed will welcome genuine cohesion among the students, as long as it's not too politically-biased from of cohesion.
Is this an adequate response?
the pikamaster -
"they" meaning?Originally posted by the Bear:even if you do, i don't think they give a rat's ass -
Pikamaster,
Petition No. 1: tell the govt to use the govt fund fairly for estate upgrading. -
yay! finally, 1 petition!!!! *groan* - I'm really igving up on this thread...Originally posted by PRP:Pikamaster,
Petition No. 1: tell the govt to use the govt fund fairly for estate upgrading. -
Don't give up hope, because that's the first way to lose a battle.
Armchair politics or whatever, people are free to share their opinions. I'd just as soon listen to the comments of any armchair critic, then listen to another round of dour propaganda and slanted suggestions from our ministers and political cabinet.
At least the critics are themselves willing to open their ears and listen, instead of the all-conquering infallible million-dollar ministers.
Instead of going along the line of creating petition after petition, you could propose a joint institution committee for the purpose of becoming a stronger voice to raise concerns at student levels. This could become the main platform to liaise with MOE's equivalent committee, and reflect on aspects and issues that have been largely ignored by petty bureaucrats up there.
I was considering along the lines of a tripartite student council, with representatives not limited to just student concillors, but any like-minded individual affilliated to an institution. These representatives would then form the basis of a 'union-style' committee, to balance the one-way traffic MOE has been dishing out.
However, i have to caution those keen on this idea that it will take time to work out. If you need an example, just look at the STU. From being a voice for teachers, it simply became a subservient surbodinate; hardly what many were hoping for. A simple case study of STU can probably iron some kinks that should be corrected if and when this student body becomes reality. -
BillyBong,Originally posted by BillyBong:Don't give up hope, because that's the first way to lose a battle.
Armchair politics or whatever, people are free to share their opinions. I'd just as soon listen to the comments of any armchair critic, then listen to another round of dour propaganda and slanted suggestions from our ministers and political cabinet.
At least the critics are themselves willing to open their ears and listen, instead of the all-conquering infallible million-dollar ministers.
Instead of going along the line of creating petition after petition, you could propose a joint institution committee for the purpose of becoming a stronger voice to raise concerns at student levels. This could become the main platform to liaise with MOE's equivalent committee, and reflect on aspects and issues that have been largely ignored by petty bureaucrats up there.
I was considering along the lines of a tripartite student council, with representatives not limited to just student concillors, but any like-minded individual affilliated to an institution. These representatives would then form the basis of a 'union-style' committee, to balance the one-way traffic MOE has been dishing out.
However, i have to caution those keen on this idea that it will take time to work out. If you need an example, just look at the STU. From being a voice for teachers, it simply became a subservient surbodinate; hardly what many were hoping for. A simple case study of STU can probably iron some kinks that should be corrected if and when this student body becomes reality.
1) Thanks for the encouragement.
2 & 3) apt observation.
4) the petition and the proposal for students are two different things. The petition is sth aimed at giving SGForums some kind of coherent voice in the political arena, so that ppl here are not just dismissed as unproductive coffee-shop grumblers. And yes, I agree with the idea of a student committee.
However, a key problem with the idea of a student committee is that - for historical environmental reasons probably, or Divide-and-rule policy, if ur more cynical - the student body, as students, are divided evenly into 3 streams: at secondary level, Special, Express, Normal; at post-secondary JC,Poly,ITEC; at uni SMU,NUS + NTU and the foreign scholars. So first we need a common ground to bond them together.
I propose creating some sort of online community where members of the three groups can freely associate with one another. In fact, I already started it with Eiki; of coruse it's still in planning i.e. we haven't started promoting it to ppl yet. But generally it's there. DO you want to help in the settign up/ promoting/ managing? haha. PM me if ur interested. And that goes for anyone else too. Click here to visit the forum.
5) Like I said previously, the student body here is still to immature to fucntion as a tripartite students' council or anything. And aside from that, the student council model you're suggesting might be (mis)construed as a form of subversion by MOE, and that won't be safe, especially since infant organizations aren't usually strong enough to take on the establishment. But what we could have is that out of the forum I'm suggesting above, we find some particularly good contributors, amke them mods and stuff, and organize them into rudimentary committees which SLOWLY expand in number and scope of activities. Eventually, form one committee to gatehr feedback on a regular basis and submit it to the govt.
6) I don't know about STU, but yahh, tt's it. Nope, of course I won't want it to be subservient, and I think it won't be, because MOE seems to want to gvie schools and students more autonomy, and exert less control over them. Inf act, this allows us to utilize the countervailing power argument agaisnt school administrations who can be rather arbitrary in their policies. But I do think the MOE is loosenign up a little, probably more than MICA at any rate.
the pikamaster -
Hey,there not too many good ideas in this forums,so u can always pick up the worthy ideas & post them here yourself!Originally posted by pikamaster:yay! finally, 1 petition!!!! *groan* - I'm really igving up on this thread...