Israel Attacks Lebanon
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First, you have already decided is inside Lebanon, thus using a word that was name after.Originally posted by MobyDog:What are you talking about.... If I tell you that "Lim Chu Kang Road" is in Singapore, would you tell me which map I should be pointing from .. Malaysia ?
Rangon Road are both in Singapore & Thailand
You know how many Santiago are there in Americas & how many United States are there in Americas ? ?
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Will the Arabs be happy if ALL the jews leave israel (for real) and go to any other country, maybe the US? Will the Arabs happily take over the land and live happily ever after? Don't forget that the jews will still be a thorn in the arabs' side economically, politically etc? There might even be jewish terrorists attacking the arabs now and then (i said maybe). Would the Arabs say, "since you're no longer here, i love you for that"?Originally posted by sohguanh:Are Jews the descendents of the people that is led by Moses during the Exodus and then subsequently to Joshua? During Joshua times, in order to establish the so called Promised Lands he did initiate wars to secure peace and land. Walls of Jericho anyone? No one in the city was spared lest a few!
Ok back to current Israel. They do in fact has a very long history with it's neighbors. That can all be resolved if they just vacate their current lands and do mass migration to US where there are alot more friendlier neighbors there. Why must Israelites hold obstinately to those lands with blood spilled every year? A sense of religious moral victory as satisfaction?
Or will they find another way to destroy all the jews? Don't forget that the arabs really dislike the jews and this dislike has gone beyond merely fighting over land.
Assume I'm wrong, the Arabs really want the land and they would be the happiest ppl on earth when the jews leave. Then will the jews leave the land? They have shown again and again that they would fight and die for that plot of land. They are still doing it today.
As much as I would like peace in the mid east, I think simple solutions like going away and shaking hands are unfeasible. -
OK .. fair enough..Originally posted by Dounut:First, you have already decided is inside Lebanon, thus using a word that was name after.
Rangon Road are both in Singapore & Thailand
You know how many Santiago are there in Americas & how many United States are there in Americas ? ?
Lets look at the current news, yesterday IDF invaded South lebanon on five front.. one of the of incursion is at Aïta Al-Chaab, where several soldiers were infured.
So, I use a Israel news agency to verify that Aïta Al-Chaab is well inside Lebanon.Several soldiers injured in Aita al-Shaab battles
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3285487,00.html
Fighters hurt during operation in southern Lebanese village where officer, two fighters were killed Tuesday. Earlier, five soldiers injured, one sustaining serious wounds. Ten terrorists killed in western region. Division 162 commander: So far 350 terrorists have been killed, infrastructures have been significantly damaged
Day 22 of fighting: Harsh battles continued Wednesday evening in the village of Aita al-Shaab in the western region of southern Lebanon. Several soldiers were injured during an operation in the village, which is close to the Israeli community of Zarit.
Golani soldier suffers serious wounds and two more suffer light wounds during IDF offensive in southeast Lebanese village
Full story
On Tuesday, three Israel Defense Forces soldiers were killed in the same village in two fighting incidents against Hizbullah members. Another 25 troops were lightly hurt, including an officer.
IDF reserve soldiers, operating in the western area in southern Lebanon, managed to kill about 10 Hizbullah terrorists. During the operation, an anti-tank missile was fired at the force, but no IDF soldiers were hurt.
On Tuesday, anti-tank missiles were fired at the forces. An officer and an IDF soldier were killed by the first missile, and another soldier was killed by the other missile.
Although Aita al-Shaab is only about 1 kilometer (0.621 miles) away from the border with Israel, near Moshav Zarit, IDF officials made it clear that they would operate in any place in southern Lebanon where there are terror infrastructures and forces will be operated in different scopes, according to requirements
So do not comment on facts, that is easily available on the google.
Anyway, read the whole article it is very informative on the IDF incursion. -
i am not jewish nor muslim. but i support what israel does.
hezbolla set up a country within a country. i pity the innocent lebanese but these are the ppl that allow the grow of hezbolla and do nothing about it.
what israel has now belong to palestine ppl. that the real world isnt it? the strongest win. dynasty change, govt topple. like all war. someone has to be beaten before it can end. i hope israel won. -
Originally posted by MobyDog:
You don't seem to understand what I am saying, yarn.
OK .. fair enough..
Lets look at the current news, yesterday IDF invaded South lebanon on five front.. one of the of incursion is at Aïta Al-Chaab, where several soldiers were infured.
So, I use a Israel news agency to verify that Aïta Al-Chaab is well inside Lebanon.
Are you telling me, the "Town Name" (which is inside Lebanon), that Hezbollah used for "Captureing" the 2 Israeli's soldiers, which appear in their news is undebatable & 100% true ? ?
While news from Israel & other sources twisted the fact ? ?
Anyway, if I tell you, I am from the United States. How do you read this "United States" ? ? -
No question about your opinion. I do agree that throughout history, countries have risen and fallen, borders have shifted and changed, political leaders have been installed, risen to power and fallen from power.Originally posted by reyes:i am not jewish nor muslim. but i support what israel does.
hezbolla set up a country within a country. i pity the innocent lebanese but these are the ppl that allow the grow of hezbolla and do nothing about it.
what israel has now belong to palestine ppl. that the real world isnt it? the strongest win. dynasty change, govt topple. like all war. someone has to be beaten before it can end. i hope israel won.
Yet in the particular issue, both sides are almost equally matched tactically and that promises a high death toll. I'm not saying that the palestinians have a strong army, don't get me mistaken. I'm saying that its almost a stand off. Israel is not out to conquer entire mid east, while the muslim nations are constantly financing and aiding those who oppose Israel. Israel can neither win nor lose via an outright conventional war unless they conquer all those nations who finance the terrorist. And even if Israel decide to go crazy and try to attack all those countries that finance the terrorist, they would end up like USA, overstretched military, high death toll and poor public opinion. -
erm who are the hezbollahOriginally posted by the Bear:think man....
technically, it should be "Lebanon attacks Israel"
the Hezbollah went INTO Israel and kidnapped 2 soldiers...
if that's not an act of war, i don't know what the hell else is
but seriously, i find that the only thing we can justifiably whack Israel for is the use of too much firepower from the air and not moving in and taking out the places the rockets are being fired from using ground forces.. the neutralisation of those rockets and seizing of them from reportedly civilian homes would have shut up the world and shown the Hezbollah for what they are.. cowardly bastards who hide behind civilians..
anyway, the analogy still stands... if you throw stones at a hornet's nest, then hide behind your daughter, you should not blame the hornets for stinging the crap out of your daughter.. -
If there are no simple solutions, the more complex and effective solution is to go to war as it is now? You approve of war? Do you advocate violence to settle dispute? If not war can you offer alternatives on how this centuries old conflict can be resolved peacefully?Originally posted by SilverPal:As much as I would like peace in the mid east, I think simple solutions like going away and shaking hands are unfeasible. -
in the end it's the ppl who suffer...
israel has itself to blame... if it didn't play offensive against its neighbours, militant grps such as Hamaz or Hizbollah wldn't exist, or rather there is no need for their existence... -
Well, go ahead, start a Nuclear War and get everything of mankind over with.
Humans are slated to wipe themselves out, and worldwide signs are very telling of this coming truth.
Animals kill one another over food for survival; WHAT do humans kill one another for???
The list of reasons & cause, is embarrassing! -
Originally posted by Dounut:
Let's examine your past post...
You don't seem to understand what I am saying, yarn.Inside Israel or Lebanon, it all depends on which version's map you are looking at, since the "Border Line" keep changing from those major wars.
then The word Aïta Al-Chaab which you use, already decided that version of map & story you choose to believe ! !
and of course, you said mentioned the story too... which become inpart as a whole criteria for your believing rhetorics.
I just proved that Aïta Al-Chaab is in Lebanon ...Are you telling me, the "Town Name" (which is inside Lebanon), that Hezbollah used for "Captureing" the 2 Israeli's soldiers, which appear in their news is undebatable & 100% true ? ?
And of course, in my first post on page one. I said why don't we give equal coverage of what the other sides are reporting... While news from Israel & other sources twisted the fact ? ?
They are known to tread a certain side before.... Anyway, if I tell you, I am from the United States. How do you read this "United States" ? ?
This statement makes no sense.. please re-phrase. -
War is what I would term as a "simplistic solution". Kill them all and assume there will be peace. War is a bad solution to an already bad situation in the first place. We can see that the more they fight, the worse things become for everyone involved.Originally posted by sohguanh:If there are no simple solutions, the more complex and effective solution is to go to war as it is now? You approve of war? Do you advocate violence to settle dispute? If not war can you offer alternatives on how this centuries old conflict can be resolved peacefully?
I do not approve of war. I do not advocate violence. I believe in the sanctity of life. I am against terrorism. I am against war. That being said, I also believe that armies are necessary tools that a country must have.
I am unable to come up with any "better" solution, violent or otherwise, to the mid eat conflict. It is indeed a very sticky solution and time will not make things better for them. Do you have any good ideas? -
Since I am now inside Israel & feeling the full force of war & bombing. I am not going to take about history. It's there, go find out.
No body likes to live under constant kidnapping, rocket threats, suicide bombing, .... the list goes on. The north & surroundings of Gaza in Israel are under such constant threats. During one of Israel festival, the security forces caught 22 attempted suicide bombing within 1 day. I personally experianced in April near Ashkelon have a rocket flew over the place I walk. Would you not want to do something if your country was in this state??
For the both sides are wrong. Israel have responded with very fire power. In some reasons I agree they have to stop those nuisance acts, but it's not a good decision to use fire power with I disagreed. Kidnapping, rockect threads & suicide bombing is un-acceptable & it's declare war. My personal view, if these parties dis-agreeds in their ideas, they can well goes into Cool-War or fight tanks with tanks in the field not in city. There are vast deserted lands in these area to do so. Why should resort to such low actions to voice out their own dis-agreedment?
Do you know some culture are teaching people to HATE? It's happening in middle east.
My personal views, "A pen is sharper then missiles." -
May be you should visit and stay in GAZA, and see what condition they lived there .. and then decide what would make a person resort to Suicide bombing.Originally posted by surfer188:Since I am now inside Israel & feeling the full force of war & bombing. I am not going to take about history. It's there, go find out.
No body likes to live under constant kidnapping, rocket threats, suicide bombing, .... the list goes on. The north & surroundings of Gaza in Israel are under such constant threats. During one of Israel festival, the security forces caught 22 attempted suicide bombing within 1 day. I personally experianced in April near Ashkelon have a rocket flew over the place I walk. Would you not want to do something if your country was in this state??
For the both sides are wrong. Israel have responded with very fire power. In some reasons I agree they have to stop those nuisance acts, but it's not a good decision to use fire power with I disagreed. Kidnapping, rockect threads & suicide bombing is un-acceptable & it's declare war. My personal view, if these parties dis-agreeds in their ideas, they can well goes into Cool-War or fight tanks with tanks in the field not in city. There are vast deserted lands in these area to do so. Why should resort to such low actions to voice out their own dis-agreedment?
Do you know some culture are teaching people to HATE? It's happening in middle east.
My personal views, "A pen is sharper then missiles."
I'm not advocating that Suicide bombing is right ... but sometimes circumstances simply drive a desperate and despaired person to do something. Well, you may argue that they target Civilians .. but don't IDF also bombed Civilians indiscriminately too.. arty shells and blowing up entire apartment blocks don't really make good argument of it.
May not be a right example.. but during second World war, to beat or rather tries to repel a Japanese invasion. The poorly armed Chinese soldiers had to resort to strapping bombs onto their bodies to stop the Japanese tanks.. who are superior in both air, sea and land weapons.
When The NVA and Vietcon does it.. they don't called "terrorist " do they ? and now you called a poorly armed palestinian who are heavily seiged to fight a open warfare in the desert against the IDF, who received free waepons from USA ? It's considered suicidal all the same. -
My Malaysian cousin emailed the below article to me which i believe reflects what many people think:
Israel has lost the plot
Dean Johns
Jul 28, 06 6:45pm
At the risk of appearing to echo the Malaysian government's sectarian sentiments on the subject, the current Israeli attacks on Lebanon and Gaza are an absolute outrage. Israel, of all nations, should be aware of the evils of submitting innocent civilians to the kind of blitzkrieg it's indulging in.
Firstly, as the UN and many of its members insist, it's collective punishment, specifically ruled out by international law. Secondly, such indiscriminate killing and destruction will only generate more hatred and resentment of Israel in the Arab world than ever and, perhaps worst of all for Israel's future, it is appalling public relations.
Everybody on earth has been aware since soon after the creation of Israel that it's a client state of the US. Witness the old American witticism that ‘a Zionist is a Jew who pays another Jew to live in Israel’.
But as dependent on US aid and diplomatic support as it has been, and as it is richly entitled to be, in my opinion, considering how shabbily the US and other allies dealt with the plight of the Jews during World War II, it should be pointed out that Israel has previously fought its own battles, in its own fashion.
It easily won all-out wars with Arab nations whenever they got together to gang-up on this tiny, industrious democracy amid the swamp of oil-fueled indolence, ignorance, incompetence and fanaticism that comprises so much of the Middle-East.
And it has always dealt with every lesser insult and assault from the Entebbe hijackers to the sponsors of suicide bombings and rocket-firing in its own highly-efficient fashion, with extremely efficient commando operations, highly-selective (and richly-deserved) assassinations, and more recently, a security fence.
But this time Israel has gone totally overboard using not just its arsenal of US armaments but also US methods. The kind of bully boy, blast-em-back-to-the-Stone-Age heavy bombardment that murders, maims and terrorises a great many more civilians than combatants has proven such a criminal fiasco and failure everywhere it's been practiced, from Vietnam to Iraq and Afghanistan.
A full circle
So now, for once and for all, Israel has emerged not just as a US dependant and ally, but some new kind of entity that looks very much like a mini US itself.
Which seems a shame to me, because I've always admired both the concept and the reality of Israel, as well as the spirit with which it has - albeit with US help - fought, prevailed and prospered as a David among hostile neighbouring Goliaths.
But now that it has allowed itself to be conscripted as a fully-fledged member of the so-called ‘coalition’ in the Bush regime's ill-conceived, ill-executed and ill-fated War on Terror, Israel has lost the plot.
It also seems to have lost its memory, to have forgotten the fact, apparently, that the state we know today as Israel was forged 50-odd years ago out of what was previously known as British Palestine over the dead bodies of British occupiers.
And the people who did the killing back then were the Stern Gang and other groups of what were in those days considered Jewish terrorists. The determination of these terrorists sprang from their desperation for a Jewish homeland; a safe haven from the horrors of Hitler's gas chambers and later, the refugee camps in which so many of the survivors were dumped after the Nazis were defeated.
Now, however, the wheel of history has come full circle. Now the terrorists are not Jews desperate for a homeland, but Arabs displaced from theirs, and living, in the Gaza strip and elsewhere, as permanent refugees from the Israelis.
And now the Israelis are attacking both the Gaza refugee camps and the people of Southern Lebanon with a ferocity and inhumanity that's eerily reminiscent of anti-Jewish atrocities like the notorious Warsaw Ghetto. Not quite so malicious or massive in scale yet, admittedly, but getting there.
Too fixated
And yet this is the nation whose whole reason for existence is founded on declaring ‘never again’ to the holocaust. In the almost sixty years since European Jews (not to mention gypsies and other largely overlooked and unlamented groups) were slaughtered in their millions, there have been countless other holocausts, of course, none of which appeared to bother Israel too badly, as they happened to non-Jews.
Like the ethnic Chinese following the Suharto-led coup in Indonesia; the Karen and other Christian tribes in Burma; the Ibo in Nigeria; first the ‘intellectuals’ then all city-dwellers and finally anyone who laughed, sang or wore colours in Cambodia; the Kurds in Iraq and Turkey; the Albanians in Serbia; the Serbs in Kosovo; every species of ‘dissident’ from Tibet; the Falun Gong in China and both the Hutus and Tutsis in their turn in Rwanda.
And so the grisly list goes on. Liberal Jews around the world, notably including those who own and run The New York Times, have protested against these events. But Israel, as a nation, seems to have been too fixated on its own problems to be bothered about those of other peoples, including the Arabs it has been responsible for displacing and dispossessing.
And now, its attitude of indifference to the plight of others appears to be turning into outright aggression. Israel's war on the god-forsaken inmates of the Palestinian refugee camps in Gaza and the mostly innocent men, women and children of Lebanon won't amount to a full-scale holocaust, of course.
Even if they wanted it to, Bush, Blair and Nato wouldn't stand for it. But their victory certainly will be a hollow one, and it'll come at a terrible cost. Not just to the victims, but to Israel itself - its image, reputation, credibility, and, most damaging of all, its future security in the face of the whole new levels of hatred that this ‘Operation Overkill’ is engendering among its enemies.
DEAN JOHNS is an Australian freelance journalist now living in Kuala Lumpur and a former occasional columnist for The Sydney Morning Herald. -
My views for the above: I guess you have been in Gaza?? Do you think both states inside Gaza & outside Gaza both have their time & effort to develop their own land & society. History have show the increase in Israel land & shinking of Palestian's land control. Why? Why there is an weapon in-balance? There are reasons to it. The world are always in-balance of weapons & Governments/Countries do takes sides.Originally posted by MobyDog:May be you should visit and stay in GAZA, and see what condition they lived there .. and then decide what would make a person resort to Suicide bombing.
I'm not advocating that Suicide bombing is right ... but sometimes circumstances simply drive a desperate and despaired person to do something. Well, you may argue that they target Civilians .. but don't IDF also bombed Civilians indiscriminately too.. arty shells and blowing up entire apartment blocks don't really make good argument of it.
May not be a right example.. but during second World war, to beat or rather tries to repel a Japanese invasion. The poorly armed Chinese soldiers had to resort to strapping bombs onto their bodies to stop the Japanese tanks.. who are superior in both air, sea and land weapons.
When The NVA and Vietcon does it.. they don't called "terrorist " do they ? and now you called a poorly armed palestinian who are heavily seiged to fight a open warfare in the desert against the IDF, who received free waepons from USA ? It's considered suicidal all the same.
Why their living condition are bad in Gaza? There is reasons. Not just Israel is the reason. Both work together to create such problems.
Israel did let Gaza people to come inside Israel to earn money to better their living. But these channel are also been use by terrorist into Israel for bombing. Israel have offered money to help re-develop Gaza & other parts before with conditions of no bombing, rockets .... but the controlling parties does not have control of minority groups in these area that are causing the problems. Gaza government do wanted Peace in some way or another. That is for sure for both sides. They are lacking of abilities to pay, educate & control minor groups. Take for example, shell pull out of Gaza cause they are not paid for 3 months. Palestian police officer in Gaza are not paid for 6 months continuous. How is the society going to be peaceful? We all know, un-employment rate increase with crime rate. It's happening.
I remember in May. A officer from Gaza Government was caught with CASH 10millions USD who have came back from overseas trip. This money was from donations of un-known source. Was intended to be use for purchasing weapons to be use against Israel. Why can't money be use to develop themselves?
If it's a open war like World War. Like you have said chinese SOLDIER as you have said. It's a soldier against a soldier. What was happening here in Israel? It's minorit groups, not the main stream Army that is causing the problems. Worst, these people are hiding within Civilians. I still dis-agree at Israel for doing massive destructions. Likewise without an operation, the turmor cannot be remove inside your body. There is sure for loss of blood. NVA and Vietcon are also army against army. Vietcon & NVA war are direct into each others state. Here it's more like against an Race, meaning Civilian or not, they kill as long as not their race.
It's near impossible to single out the terrorist within Civilians. A long terms solutions are educations & improving life. The pass is in a mess, let's properly lives. There are many things happening around. Both side have did right & wrong at the same time.
I am currently in Israel Ashkelon, 260km direct distant away from Lebenon. At the time of typing, I am still hear bombings in the north for the pass 3hrs. 7:05pm Israel time. -
If Israel will allow the 4 million Palestinians to return to their homes in Israel and the occupied WEst Bank, it will remove the constant supply of recruits for the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah.Originally posted by surfer188:Since I am now inside Israel & feeling the full force of war & bombing. I am not going to take about history. It's there, go find out.
No body likes to live under constant kidnapping, rocket threats, suicide bombing, .... the list goes on. The north & surroundings of Gaza in Israel are under such constant threats. During one of Israel festival, the security forces caught 22 attempted suicide bombing within 1 day. I personally experianced in April near Ashkelon have a rocket flew over the place I walk. Would you not want to do something if your country was in this state??
For the both sides are wrong. Israel have responded with very fire power. In some reasons I agree they have to stop those nuisance acts, but it's not a good decision to use fire power with I disagreed. Kidnapping, rockect threads & suicide bombing is un-acceptable & it's declare war. My personal view, if these parties dis-agreeds in their ideas, they can well goes into Cool-War or fight tanks with tanks in the field not in city. There are vast deserted lands in these area to do so. Why should resort to such low actions to voice out their own dis-agreedment?
Do you know some culture are teaching people to HATE? It's happening in middle east.
My personal views, "A pen is sharper then missiles."
It is not culture that teaches people to hate. Even Lebanese Christians, who used to be the enemy of the Hezbollah, are now supporting Hezbollah. I have also heard a Palestinian Christian talk about volunteering to be a suicide bomber. Why? It is not culture or religion. It is much more simple: they have lost their wives and children, their homes and jobs....they want vengeance.
It's not just the grievance, it's the grief.... and Israel is doing a good job at building the level of grief and the reservoir of hatred among the Arabs. -
Originally posted by MobyDog:
Fine. This is the last time I "Explain" regarding your statements of comparison.
. . . . .
You are subjectively choosing your preference parts of the entire picture to fit into your own arguement.
Basically, it's like this simple example:
Singapore public transport is cheaper than Hong Kong, but our salary are higher than China ! !
This is a fact, but something important is missing. Period.This statement makes no sense.. please re-phrase.
You still did not answer this question:
How many United States are there in America ? ?
Is there any difference & what is the difference between:
United States in America vs United States of America ? ? -
Originally posted by surfer188:
And how did Israel land increased ? Who controlled the access of palestinians goods and taxes ??
My views for the above: I guess you have been in Gaza?? Do you think both states inside Gaza & outside Gaza both have their time & effort to develop their own land & society. History have show the increase in Israel land & shinking of Palestian's land control. Why? Why there is an weapon in-balance? There are reasons to it. The world are always in-balance of weapons & Governments/Countries do takes sides.Why their living condition are bad in Gaza? There is reasons. Not just Israel is the reason. Both work together to create such problems.
As I recall.. all does Checkpoints that opens and close irregularly and closes 1/3 of the year, private roads linking Jewish settlements, the settlements itself has something to do with it.. ohh... and there's that wall that's sitting and stretched along Palestinian arable lands.Israel did let Gaza people to come inside Israel to earn money to better their living. But these channel are also been use by terrorist into Israel for bombing. Israel have offered money to help re-develop Gaza & other parts before with conditions of no bombing, rockets .... but the controlling parties does not have control of minority groups in these area that are causing the problems. Gaza government do wanted Peace in some way or another. That is for sure for both sides.
with jewish settlements in mind no doubt.. and that was along time ago.They are lacking of abilities to pay, educate & control minor groups. Take for example, shell pull out of Gaza cause they are not paid for 3 months. Palestian police officer in Gaza are not paid for 6 months continuous. How is the society going to be peaceful? We all know, un-employment rate increase with crime rate. It's happening.
sure.. when Hamas was elected democraticaly. Israel wasted no time in withholding their money and blocked off their port and consumer goods (Food) access.. if I recall correctlyI remember in May. A officer from Gaza Government was caught with CASH 10millions USD who have came back from overseas trip. This money was from donations of un-known source. Was intended to be use for purchasing weapons to be use against Israel. Why can't money be use to develop themselves?
Well, palestinians lands are occupied, and those donations are for specific uses only as you have mentioned.It's near impossible to single out the terrorist within Civilians. A long terms solutions are educations & improving life. The pass is in a mess, let's properly lives. There are many things happening around. Both side have did right & wrong at the same time.
Improving lives ?? The israeli's used extreme harassment tactics of inconvenience by means of checkpoints and partition Gaza with settlements and it's private access roads.I am currently in Israel Ashkelon, 260km direct distant away from Lebenon. At the time of typing, I am still hear bombings in the north for the pass 3hrs. 7:05pm Israel time.
How many Lebanese civilians are being killed by the IDF, as you are typing this.. can you please estimate since you're that close... -
What question ??? didn't I said " Fair enough " ?Originally posted by Dounut:You still did not answer this question:
How many United States are there in America ? ?
Is there any difference & what is the difference between:
United States in America vs United States of America ? ?
Your post makes absolutely no sense...Fine. This is the last time I "Explain" regarding your statements of comparison.
What are you talking about ... you said that place depends on whose map you reading from.. isn't it.
You are subjectively choosing your preference parts of the entire picture to fit into your own arguement.
Basically, it's like this simple example:
Singapore public transport is cheaper than Hong Kong, but our salary are higher than China ! !
This is a fact, but something important is missing. Period.
Do I have to refer your past again !!! -
This articles makes very good points -
Here are the excerpt from the articleIsrael, not Hizbullah, is putting civilians in danger on both sides of the border
http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0269.htm#Top
“The Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert embeds his soldiers in Israeli communities, next to schools, beside hospitals, close to welfare centres, ensuring that any Israeli target is also a civilian target. This is the practice the UN's Jan Egeland had in mind when he lambasted Israel’s ‘cowardly blending ... among women and children’.
*****
Giving the lie to the “human shields” theory, HRW says its researchers “found numerous cases in which the IDF [Israeli army] launched artillery and air attacks with limited or dubious military objectives but excessive civilian cost. In many cases, Israeli forces struck an area with no apparent military target. In some instances, Israeli forces appear to have deliberately targeted civilians.”
In fact, of the 24 incidents they document, HRW researchers could find no evidence that Hizbullah was operating in or near the areas that were attacked by the Israeli air force. Roth states: “The image that Israel has promoted of such [human] shielding as the cause of so high a civilian death toll is wrong. In the many cases of civilian deaths examined by Human Rights Watch, the location of Hezbollah troops and arms had nothing to do with the deaths because there was no Hezbollah around.”
*****
Echoing comments by the UN’s Jan Egeland, he says Hizbullah fighters are “cowardly blending” with Lebanon’s civilian population. It is difficult to know what to make of this observation. If Freedland means that Hizbullah fighters come from Lebanese towns and villages and have families living there whom they visit and live among, he is right. But exactly the same can be said of Israel and its soldiers, who return from the battlefront (in this case inside Lebanon, as they are now an invading army) to live with parents or spouses in Israeli communities. Armed and uniformed soldiers can be seen all over Israel, sitting in trains, queuing in banks, waiting with civilians at bus stops. Does that mean they are “cowardly blending’ with Israel’s civilian population?
*****
Egeland and FreedlandÂ’s criticism seems to amount to little more than blaming Hizbullah fighters for not standing in open fields waiting to be picked off by Israeli tanks and war planes. That, presumably, would be brave. But in reality no army fights in this way, and Hizbullah can hardly be criticised for using the only strategic defences it has: its underground bunkers and the crumbling fortifications of Lebanese villages ruined by Israeli pounding. An army defending itself from invasion has to make the most of whatever protection it can find -- as long as it does not intentionally put civilians at risk. But HRWÂ’s research shows convincingly that Hizbullah is not doing this.
*****
There are hundreds of similar military installations next to or inside IsraelÂ’s northern communities. Some distance from Nazareth, for example, Israel has built a large weapons factory virtually on top of an Arab town -- so close to it, in fact, that the factoryÂ’s perimeter fence is only a few metres from the main building of the local junior school. There have been reports of rockets landing close to that Arab community.
How these kind of attacks are being unfairly presented in the Israeli and foreign media was highlighted recently when it was widely reported that a Hizbullah rocket had landed “near a hospital” in a named Israeli city, not the first time that such a claim has been made over the past few weeks. I cannot name the city, again because of Israel’s press censorship laws and because I also want to point out that very “near” that hospital is an army camp. The media suggested that Hizbullah was trying to hit the hospital, but it is also more than possible it was trying to strike -- and may have struck -- the army camp.
******
Audiences ought to be alerted to this danger by their media. Any reports touching on “security matters” are supposed to be submitted to the country’s military censor, but few media are pointing this out. Most justify this deception to themselves on the grounds that in practice they never run their reports by the censor as it would delay publication.
Instead, they avoid problems with the military censor either by self-censoring their reporting of security issues or by relying on what has already been published in the Israeli media on the assumption that in these ways they are unlikely to contravene the rules.
I especially like this part : - makes alot of sense.
“The Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert embeds his soldiers in Israeli communities, next to schools, beside hospitals, close to welfare centres, ensuring that any Israeli target is also a civilian target. This is the practice the UN's Jan Egeland had in mind when he lambasted Israel’s ‘cowardly blending ... among women and children’.
Also Censorship laws.. hmmm .. and most main stream news originate from Israel. -
what are you talking about? mind simplifying the message you're trying to convey?Originally posted by Dounut:You still did not answer this question:
How many United States are there in America ? ?
Is there any difference & what is the difference between:
United States in America vs United States of America ? ? 
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No question about your opinion. I do agree that throughout history, countries have risen and fallen, borders have shifted and changed, political leaders have been installed, risen to power and fallen from power.
Yet in the particular issue, both sides are almost equally matched tactically and that promises a high death toll. I'm not saying that the palestinians have a strong army, don't get me mistaken. I'm saying that its almost a stand off. Israel is not out to conquer entire mid east, while the muslim nations are constantly financing and aiding those who oppose Israel. Israel can neither win nor lose via an outright conventional war unless they conquer all those nations who finance the terrorist. And even if Israel decide to go crazy and try to attack all those countries that finance the terrorist, they would end up like USA, overstretched military, high death toll and poor public opinion.
thank for your opinion. i agree israel cant win the war against the Mid east country. no one can. what i am saying is israel should go war with hezbolla. keep it tight and not drag the likes of syria and iran into the picture. i think israel should probably stop by litani river. destroy the hezbolla stronghold in the south and set up military bases in southern lebanon. we know hezbolla has a longer range missiles but with that bases in southern lebanon israel, troops can as and when upon attack and retaliate deep into lebanon with much accuracy. -
Originally posted by reyes:
What you suggesting is " Occupation " .. also the sieze the water supply from the litani river.. just like what Israel is doing in the Golan Ht. What's next ... built Jewish settlements called " jewish Neighbourhood" and when these settlement are attcked... the media will gives the impression that Israel proper is attacked... and another incursion into Nth Lebanese.. then drop leaflets caling the Lebanese to vacate their country.. else anyone killed is their fault ?
[b]No question about your opinion. I do agree that throughout history, countries have risen and fallen, borders have shifted and changed, political leaders have been installed, risen to power and fallen from power.
Yet in the particular issue, both sides are almost equally matched tactically and that promises a high death toll. I'm not saying that the palestinians have a strong army, don't get me mistaken. I'm saying that its almost a stand off. Israel is not out to conquer entire mid east, while the muslim nations are constantly financing and aiding those who oppose Israel. Israel can neither win nor lose via an outright conventional war unless they conquer all those nations who finance the terrorist. And even if Israel decide to go crazy and try to attack all those countries that finance the terrorist, they would end up like USA, overstretched military, high death toll and poor public opinion.
thank for your opinion. i agree israel cant win the war against the Mid east country. no one can. what i am saying is israel should go war with hezbolla. keep it tight and not drag the likes of syria and iran into the picture. i think israel should probably stop by litani river. destroy the hezbolla stronghold in the south and set up military bases in southern lebanon. we know hezbolla has a longer range missiles but with that bases in southern lebanon israel, troops can as and when upon attack and retaliate deep into lebanon with much accuracy.
[/b] -
It's about annexation, stupid!
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HH05Ak01.html
By Kaveh L Afrasiabi
Officially, Israel's ground invasion of Lebanon is an act of self-defense against Hezbollah's threat, aimed at creating a security buffer zone until the arrival of a "multinational force with an enforcement capability". But increasingly, as the initial goal of a narrow strip of only a few kilometers has now been extended up to the Litani River deep in Lebanon, the real motives behind Israel's invasion are becoming crystal-clear.
It's about (de facto) annexation, stupid. This is a war to annex a major chunk of Lebanese territory without necessarily saying so, under the pretext of security buffer and deterrence against future attacks on Israel.
Already, since the Six Day War, Israel has annexed the Sheba Farms, considered part of the Syrian Golan Heights, although the
government of Lebanon has long complained that the 25-square-kilometer area was a part of Lebanon. Now the Israeli army is sweeping the area south of the Litani River as a temporary occupation.
"We have no intention of extending our operation more than 70 kilometers north of our borders with Lebanon," stated Lieutenant-Colonel Hemi Lini on the Lebanese border on July 17, one week after the war's outbreak.
This would put Israel, assuming for a moment that the Israel Defense Forces' operations prove ultimately successful, in control of the Litani River, thus fulfilling Israel's founding fathers' dream, stretching back to Chaim Weizmann, head of the World Zionist Organization, who in 1919 declared the river "essential to the future of the Jewish national home".
Consequently, contrary to the pro-Israel pundits' reassurances that this war is not about occupation, all the tangible signs indicate the exact opposite, ie, the distinct possibility of a "war of acreage" whereby Israel would expand its territory, acquire a new strategic depth, and simultaneously address its chronic water shortage by exploiting the Litani.
Access to the Litani would translate into an annual increase of water supply by 800 million cubic meters. This in turn might allow Israel to bargain with Syria over the Golan Heights, source of a full one-third of Israel's fresh water. However, a more likely scenario is Israel's continued unwillingness to abide by United Nations Resolutions 242 and 338 calling for its withdrawal from the Syrian territories.
The entire Western media have settled on a naive perspective of the reasons for Israel's invasion of Lebanon, namely as a defensive measure against Hezbollah. Conspicuously absent is any serious consideration of a viable, alternative explanation while focusing on, in essence, the same ingredients as in the 1982 invasion: "deceit and misleading statements" by leaders, "inaccurate announcements" by the military spokesmen, and "gross exaggeration" of threats, to paraphrase a candid reflection of an Israeli general, Yehoshafat Harkabi.
Following this scenario, Israel has dropped leaflets throughout southern Lebanon warning the civilians to leave or risk their lives, as they would be considered "Hezbollah sympathizers" if they refused to leave. Reminiscent of Israel's annexation of Palestinian lands in 1948 and beyond, the present war is causing mass refugees, who in all likelihood will not return to their homes any time soon.
The geostrategic and water dimensions of Israel's quest to possess southern Lebanon notwithstanding, the question is, of course, whether or not the world community will tolerate such a development that would remake the map of the Middle East.
There are plenty of reasons to think that in light of the United States' complicit silence on Israel's violation of the territorial integrity of Lebanon, Israel will somehow manage to ride out the international criticisms and stick to its undeclared plan to annex southern Lebanon. However, what is less certain is that the combined efforts of Hezbollah and the rest of Lebanese society, not to mention other Arab contributions, will prevail over Israel's appetite for a decent part of Lebanon.
With the military balance disproportionately in Israel's favor, we can safely assume that the new Operation Litani will succeed and thus create a "new Middle East" with a "greater" and geographically expanded Israel and a shrunken or diminished Lebanon.
If so, then the chronology of events narrated by future historians will closely follow this line of thought: that Israel deliberately provoked Hezbollah into action, after a six-year hiatus, by pressuring Hezbollah's ally, Hamas, which was subjected to a campaign of terror, financial squeeze and intimidation.
The laying of such a trap by Israel would not have happened in a vacuum of strategic thinking on Israel's part. The fact that Hezbollah fell into the trap is a result of several factors, including an adventurist element lending itself to the "reckless" action of Hezbollah on July 11 with respect to crossing the Blue Line and attacking an Israeli patrol.
Since then, the Israelis have put on the mask of being reluctant warriors, delaying their troops' entry into south Lebanon and thus perpetuating Israel's self-image as disinterested in any imperial grand objectives. Yet the facts on the ground speak louder than words and, indeed, what fact is more important than Israeli leaders' announced intention to occupy up to the Litani River?
Again, what is understandably omitted in those announcements, adopted as the real reasons by CNN and other US networks, is Israel's predatory lust after Litani's water sources, as well as for new geographical and strategic depth. This in turn might explain the otherwise inexplicably blatant overreaction of Israel to a border incident with Hezbollah.
Instead of searching for answers in the Israeli collective psyche or in the context of action, we must probe the answer in the writings of Israel's founding fathers, including Theodor Herzl and David Ben-Gurion, commonly yearning for Israel's control of the Litani River. As a timely addition to their old wish, Israel today has a security-related explanation, justifying the territorial takeover in the near future in terms of the lessons of the present war, the main lesson being Israel's dire need to gain strategic depth to avoid rocket attacks.
Indeed, the verdict will soon be out in Israel about the precious lesson of Lebanon War II, that is, how to prevent future rocket attacks in the only feasible way, that is, direct control of southern Lebanon.