Firms Struggle To Hire Local Workers!!
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Your reasoning sounds very logical and reasonable. In fact, I feel compelled to agree with you and would actually be happy if the situation was actually that way.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Exactly why Khaw Boon Wan was considering retirement villages in Batam and JB. If we want to live in a first world country like Singapore, we can only expect first world prices.
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Lower salaries will lower the cost of living in Singapore but it will also make foreign imported goods and services more expensive and less affordable. Your barber may charge you less but you cannot afford that MP3 player or your laptop now. And by the way, your filippino maid could well decide to work for Hong Kongers instead..
We see prices constantly being increased and salaries constantly being decreased in the same breath. You yourself mentioned in one para that UK paid a certain high pay and that the london subway is 5 times more expensive.
Perhaps I have been misrepresenting myself in this discussion. I am not one who wants more gadgets and luxury goods for a lower price, that is simply unreasonable. You are right, if I want my MP3 player and laptop, I have to bear the costs. If I want to live in a country that has the latest laptops and the smallest mp3 players, I don't expect a sleepy village standard of living.
Your examples necessarily imply that with higher wages come higher standard of living. Hence the higher costs would mean a higher spending power due to a higher salary. But is that what is really happening? Are our wages increasing or decreasing? Cost of living is definitely increasing, no question there.
Sometimes progress is not about installing more LCD screens for us to watch while waiting for the MRT. -
Well-said, straight to the pt. u have a supporter hereOriginally posted by SilverPal:Your reasoning sounds very logical and reasonable. In fact, I feel compelled to agree with you and would actually be happy if the situation was actually that way.
We see prices constantly being increased and salaries constantly being decreased in the same breath. You yourself mentioned in one para that UK paid a certain high pay and that the london subway is 5 times more expensive.
Perhaps I have been misrepresenting myself in this discussion. I am not one who wants more gadgets and luxury goods for a lower price, that is simply unreasonable. You are right, if I want my MP3 player and laptop, I have to bear the costs. If I want to live in a country that has the latest laptops and the smallest mp3 players, I don't expect a sleepy village standard of living.
Your examples necessarily imply that with higher wages come higher standard of living. Hence the higher costs would mean a higher spending power due to a higher salary. But is that what is really happening? Are our wages increasing or decreasing? Cost of living is definitely increasing, no question there.
Sometimes progress is not about installing more LCD screens for us to watch while waiting for the MRT. -
Std of living does not equate to cost of living.U can earn a good salary and hve a quality of living if the cost of living in that country is low/lower.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Why would firms want to employ a foreigner if there are locals who can do the job just as well? It's because foreigners are willing to accept a lower pay. I agree that foreigners are willing to do that because their families in China or India can live very well on the meagre sum he sends home. But remember that his children in China do not have the kind of education your children have, neither do they have access to the kind of education, healthcare or transport system we are accustomed to.
The cost of living in a first world nation like Singapore is obviously much higher than that in third world nations. Unless we are prepared to accept a lower standard of living, we must be ready to pay a higher price as well.
The solution is not to drastically cut the cost of living but to greatly increase our income. That is why we simply cannot afford to compete at the same level as foreign workers...on their terms. Some of you mentioned that FT are getting management jobs rather than menial jobs as road sweepers. Shouldn't we ask why is it that our graduates are not more highly valued as managers compared to foreigners? Pay is only one factor. If our graduates are far more effective managers than the FT, why should firms choose foreigners? If one of ours can bring in more income for the company than two foreigners, which boss would be daft enough to hire a foreigner instead at 20% less pay?
London paid its fund managers 1-million pound bonuses last Christmas, because these fund managers bring in billions for their financial firms. The UK hires thousands of foreign workers to build their liquified natural gas (LNG) facilities, but the engineers were British nationals who have been brought back from the Middle East at high salaries. Why? Because they have specialized knowledge that foreign engineers do not.
The reason local workers lose out to foreign workers is that their skills are not sufficiently covetable to justify the salaries they seek.
Our graduates are far more educated , knowledgeable and effective managers better than foreigners,that why they can migrate to other first world counties w/o any problems.
We lose out to the other flies cause they are cheap in term of salary and moralitybut not the skill for they r from third world countries and shamless to take up immoral work like pro.
The issue is the cost of living here is making average S'poreans can't breath at the end of everymonth or daily -
Yes indeed, if you go to a village Swaziland, you don't expect to be able to buy a dual core laptop. If wages are low, one cannot expect air conditioners, television, laptops, cars and all the comforts of modern life. To have a higher standard of living, the population must have sufficiently high wages to support it.Originally posted by SilverPal:Your reasoning sounds very logical and reasonable. In fact, I feel compelled to agree with you and would actually be happy if the situation was actually that way.
We see prices constantly being increased and salaries constantly being decreased in the same breath. You yourself mentioned in one para that UK paid a certain high pay and that the london subway is 5 times more expensive.
Perhaps I have been misrepresenting myself in this discussion. I am not one who wants more gadgets and luxury goods for a lower price, that is simply unreasonable. You are right, if I want my MP3 player and laptop, I have to bear the costs. If I want to live in a country that has the latest laptops and the smallest mp3 players, I don't expect a sleepy village standard of living.
Your examples necessarily imply that with higher wages come higher standard of living. Hence the higher costs would mean a higher spending power due to a higher salary. But is that what is really happening? Are our wages increasing or decreasing? Cost of living is definitely increasing, no question there.
Sometimes progress is not about installing more LCD screens for us to watch while waiting for the MRT.
Consider China, it is only with the improvement of the economy, with higher wages of the Chinese in recent years that we see the streets of Beijing jammed with cars rather than bicycles. The basic rules of demand and supply dictate that the standard of living can only rise if wages also rise. If people cannot afford to pay for a more comfortable lifestyle, the demand will drop, and so too, will the supply.
Are our wages increasing? Yes, they do...not for everyone but enough Singaporeans have seen their wages increase to create the demand for the latest mp3 and duo core laptops. Perhaps they are just the elite? Yes, perhaps they are but if so, the elite group is big enough to create the demand for the ever increasing car population (despite the high costs of car ownership), the rising house prices and the increasing number of Singaporeans who go overseas for holidays and studies. In fact, our wages have increased too much relative to those of our competitors, which is why locals are losing their jobs to foreigners who are able to acquire similar skills.
For example, a local bricklayer is paid S$65 per day, whilst a foreign worker in Singapore doing the same job is paid S$23 per day. A bricklayer in neighbouring Malaysia is paid only 10 ringgit a day. Singaporean bricklayers will have to be three times as productive as the FT in Singapore and 10 times as productive as his counterpart in Malaysia. Is it any surprise that employers find it difficult to employ local bricklayers?
(Source: http://www.icoste.org/laborsteel.htm)
If we pay our bricklayers less, perhaps we can get our houses at a lower price, but these bricklayers will have difficulty coping, as you would say. Although I think house prices will not be affected much in this instance because in land scarce Singapore, it is the land costs that push housing prices up...that and the fact that there are people who earn high enough wages who are willing to pay a higher price.
The problem about the cost of living is therefore a combination of higher wages (than our competitors) and the fact that the distribution of wealth in Singapore is becoming polarised. It is true that the rich are getting wealthier and the poor are getting poorer. There are enough people who are getting higher wages to support the higher costs of living in Singapore. On the other hand, the poorer Singaporeans are also the ones whose skills cannot match those of our competitors who are far cheaper. Hence whilst one group sees its wages dropping because of competition by FT, another group enjoys rising wages sufficient to prop up the higher costs of living in society.
The challenge applies to everyone in all fields. Diagnostic radiologists expect to see a drop in their salary (and in fact, even lose their jobs) because we now outsource X-ray reporting to India. On the other hand, cosmetic surgeons performing boob jobs and eye surgeons doing laser keratoplasty (to correct short-sightedness) enjoy ever-rising wages. There are enough of these surgeons who can bid top prices for COEs and pay millions of dollars for condos to ensure car and house prices remain high.
The way forward is to constantly evaluate our own competitiveness and either upgrade or switch vocations entirely as the economy re-structures.
BTW, if you are trying to blame the LCD screens for the rising MRT fares, that is not true. The LCD screens are more than sufficiently paid for by the companies who put up adverts...the cost of installation is not the reason for the rising train fares. -
Yes, you can do that if you earn your salary in the US and live in Singapore; or if you live in China but draw your pay from Singapore. A Singaporean engineer who is willing to work in China whilst drawing a salary from Singapore will benefit financially...because his skills may not be available in China. But if Chinese engineers can do his job just as well, why should his company continue to employ him?Originally posted by foomwee88:Std of living does not equate to cost of living.U can earn a good salary and hve a quality of living if the cost of living in that country is low/lower.Our graduates are far more educated , knowledgeable and effective managers better than foreigners,that why they can migrate to other first world counties w/o any problems
Indeed you are right! Singaporeans with skills that are as good as their counterparts in Europe and the US can therefore demand salaries equivalent to those in other first world countries. If we do not pay our fund managers or doctors the high wages they demand, they can easily emigrate to Europe and the US. If we cut the wages of our nurses to lower healthcare costs, then more local nurses will emigrate to Australia like forumners fymk and Rhonda.
Singaporeans with marketable skills keep the costs of living high because their wages are high or else we will lose their services entirely. On the other hand, Singaporeans whose skills are no better than the FT will only see their wages continually being slashed. That is the problem. -
Thank you for your patient explanation. I now see the point you are trying to make.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Yes indeed, if you go to a village Swaziland, you don't expect to be able to buy a dual core laptop. If wages are low, one cannot expect air conditioners, television, laptops, cars and all the comforts of modern life. To have a higher standard of living, the population must have sufficiently high wages to support it.
Consider China, it is only with the improvement of the economy, with higher wages of the Chinese in recent years that we see the streets of Beijing jammed with cars rather than bicycles. The basic rules of demand and supply dictate that the standard of living can only rise if wages also rise. If people cannot afford to pay for a more comfortable lifestyle, the demand will drop, and so too, will the supply.
Are our wages increasing? Yes, they do...not for everyone but enough Singaporeans have seen their wages increase to create the demand for the latest mp3 and duo core laptops. Perhaps they are just the elite? Yes, perhaps they are but if so, the elite group is big enough to create the demand for the ever increasing car population (despite the high costs of car ownership), the rising house prices and the increasing number of Singaporeans who go overseas for holidays and studies. In fact, our wages have increased too much relative to those of our competitors, which is why locals are losing their jobs to foreigners who are able to acquire similar skills.
For example, a local bricklayer is paid S$65 per day, whilst a foreign worker in Singapore doing the same job is paid S$23 per day. A bricklayer in neighbouring Malaysia is paid only 10 ringgit a day. Singaporean bricklayers will have to be three times as productive as the FT in Singapore and 10 times as productive as his counterpart in Malaysia. Is it any surprise that employers find it difficult to employ local bricklayers?
(Source: http://www.icoste.org/laborsteel.htm)
If we pay our bricklayers less, perhaps we can get our houses at a lower price, but these bricklayers will have difficulty coping, as you would say. Although I think house prices will not be affected much in this instance because in land scarce Singapore, it is the land costs that push housing prices up...that and the fact that there are people who earn high enough wages who are willing to pay a higher price.
The problem about the cost of living is therefore a combination of higher wages (than our competitors) and the fact that the distribution of wealth in Singapore is becoming polarised. It is true that the rich are getting wealthier and the poor are getting poorer. There are enough people who are getting higher wages to support the higher costs of living in Singapore. On the other hand, the poorer Singaporeans are also the ones whose skills cannot match those of our competitors who are far cheaper. Hence whilst one group sees its wages dropping because of competition by FT, another group enjoys rising wages sufficient to prop up the higher costs of living in society.
The challenge applies to everyone in all fields. Diagnostic radiologists expect to see a drop in their salary (and in fact, even lose their jobs) because we now outsource X-ray reporting to India. On the other hand, cosmetic surgeons performing boob jobs and eye surgeons doing laser keratoplasty (to correct short-sightedness) enjoy ever-rising wages. There are enough of these surgeons who can bid top prices for COEs and pay millions of dollars for condos to ensure car and house prices remain high.
The way forward is to constantly evaluate our own competitiveness and either upgrade or switch vocations entirely as the economy re-structures.
BTW, if you are trying to blame the LCD screens for the rising MRT fares, that is not true. The LCD screens are more than sufficiently paid for by the companies who put up adverts...the cost of installation is not the reason for the rising train fares.
I am not blaming the rise of MRT fares on the LCD screens. I am saying that while those who do not take MRT deem installation of the LCD TVs as an improvement to the train experience, it is superfluous and not exactly necessary as a form of progress. While adding air conditioners to taxis is an improvement, adding tv mobile in taxis does not exactly contribute to improvement and progress. Many singaporeans are ambivalent towards such measures. -
I think yr argument is flawedOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:Indeed you are right! Singaporeans with skills that are as good as their counterparts in Europe and the US can therefore demand salaries equivalent to those in other first world countries. If we do not pay our fund managers or doctors the high wages they demand, they can easily emigrate to Europe and the US. If we cut the wages of our nurses to lower healthcare costs, then more local nurses will emigrate to Australia like forumners fymk and Rhonda.
Singaporeans with marketable skills keep the costs of living high because their wages are high or else we will lose their services entirely. On the other hand, Singaporeans whose skills are no better than the FT will only see their wages continually being slashed. That is the problem.
We are not talking our pay is high which warrented a cut. we are talking about cost of living here is so high and it doesnot commensurate with our salaries earned.
There are a lot of areas which the gov can help 2 reduce the costs of living but it choose otherwise.that whay we r pissed off.
Please la,dont give the examples we earned our salary here and spent elsewhere, are u a s'porean or not ???this is our country we should earn here live here and bring up our children here in S'pore unless we cant take it anymore.
We r attracting all the flies to S'pore instead of those who can contribute to the well being of our society.Pls looking around U if u re not blind!!! -
I will not repeat my arguments all over again....please read my earlier posts.Originally posted by foomwee88:I think yr argument is flawed
We are not talking our pay is high which warrented a cut. we are talking about cost of living here is so high and it doesnot commensurate with our salaries earned.
There are a lot of areas which the gov can help 2 reduce the costs of living but it choose otherwise.that whay we r pissed off.
Please la,dont give the examples we earned our salary here and spent elsewhere, are u a s'porean or not ???this is our country we should earn here live here and bring up our children here in S'pore unless we cant take it anymore.
We r attracting all the flies to S'pore instead of those who can contribute to the well being of our society.Pls looking around U if u re not blind!!!
Taxi fares are up....that's a rise in the cost of living. If commuters cannot afford it and no longer take taxis, the fares will have to come down or else more taxi drivers will lose their jobs. But if the taxi fare drops, taxi drivers will have lower salaries. If the fares remain high despite fewer commuters, then some taxi drivers will become jobless. The cost of living is driven up by consumers who can afford it and salaries are ultimately tied in with the cost of living.
Although I am Singaporean, unlike you I see that in a globalised economy, your nationality matters little nowadays. Bear is right that purely capitalist policies are cruel but they are here to stay. Communism has utterly failed. Companies do not care where you were born...it's how much money you can bring to the company that matters.
The flies won't be coming to Singapore if our employers don't want them. When one bricklayer in Singapore costs as much as 3 foreign talents and 10 Malaysian bricklayers, it's time for our bricklayers to consider a different job. Unless you become like some Indian god with 10 pairs of hands and legs, how can you compete with your Malaysian counterparts?
Please look around and see how the world has changed. If the government were to pass a law tomorrow banning all foreign talent, many of our companies and factories will close and move to China. Singaporeans stand to lose even more. Indeed the rising costs of living affects me as much as it does you. But the solution is not to whine about foreign talent and hope they go away...the solution is to be able to offer a skill that foreign talents do not have. No doubt they will learn even that skill eventually, but we must constantly stay one step ahead. -
I agree the LCD screens and TV mobile are totally unnecessary for commuters...but they bring in money from adverts for the train and bus companies. As long as they do not use our fares to install LVD screens, I do not care. In fact, I wish they can earn more from such adverts and so do not need to raise fares quite so often. But it is true that businessmen are always greedy for more and in a capitalist economy, the only way to prevent that is competition.Originally posted by SilverPal:Thank you for your patient explanation. I now see the point you are trying to make.
I am not blaming the rise of MRT fares on the LCD screens. I am saying that while those who do not take MRT deem installation of the LCD TVs as an improvement to the train experience, it is superfluous and not exactly necessary as a form of progress. While adding air conditioners to taxis is an improvement, adding tv mobile in taxis does not exactly contribute to improvement and progress. Many singaporeans are ambivalent towards such measures.
I feel the government should consider bringing in anti-competition laws to prevent a particular company from gaining a monopoly. However, I do realize that it may not always work in a small market, as we have seen with the media companies. -
The TV mobile is a flop ... so us communter has to pay for the failure with the faresOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:I agree the LCD screens and TV mobile are totally unnecessary for commuters...but they bring in money from adverts for the train and bus companies. As long as they do not use our fares to install LVD screens, I do not care. In fact, I wish they can earn more from such adverts and so do not need to raise fares quite so often. But it is true that businessmen are always greedy for more and in a capitalist economy, the only way to prevent that is competition.
I feel the government should consider bringing in anti-competition laws to prevent a particular company from gaining a monopoly. However, I do realize that it may not always work in a small market, as we have seen with the media companies. -
Do u think taxi drivers want the taxi fare to go up??? No man! it is the taxi companies which want to suck their blood and make more profit.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:I will not repeat my arguments all over again....please read my earlier posts.
Taxi fares are up....that's a rise in the cost of living. If commuters cannot afford it and no longer take taxis, the fares will have to come down or else more taxi drivers will lose their jobs. But if the taxi fare drops, taxi drivers will have lower salaries. If the fares remain high despite fewer commuters, then some taxi drivers will become jobless. The cost of living is driven up by consumers who can afford it and salaries are ultimately tied in with the cost of living.
Although I am Singaporean, unlike you I see that in a globalised economy, your nationality matters little nowadays. Bear is right that purely capitalist policies are cruel but they are here to stay. Communism has utterly failed. Companies do not care where you were born...it's how much money you can bring to the company that matters.
The flies won't be coming to Singapore if our employers don't want them. When one bricklayer in Singapore costs as much as 3 foreign talents and 10 Malaysian bricklayers, it's time for our bricklayers to consider a different job. Unless you become like some Indian god with 10 pairs of hands and legs, how can you compete with your Malaysian counterparts?
Please look around and see how the world has changed. If the government were to pass a law tomorrow banning all foreign talent, many of our companies and factories will close and move to China. Singaporeans stand to lose even more. Indeed the rising costs of living affects me as much as it does you. But the solution is not to whine about foreign talent and hope they go away...the solution is to be able to offer a skill that foreign talents do not have. No doubt they will learn even that skill eventually, but we must constantly stay one step ahead.
FYI, my father in law who had passed away paid S$40 per day 20 years ago for the rental of taxi and now taxi driver has to pay S$90 per day and their income per day is the same as 20 years ago that why they are so frustrated nowaday.
The cost of living in S'pore has gone up at least 3 times but our pay is the same as 20 years ago,do u understand!!!!
I regret to tell U that I am now in USA doing business and i am more goballised than u who is living in an ivory tower and talkg c. -
wei....relak la.....oxford is only explaining...and he is right.
By the way, dont u know he is in medical field, and if Im not wrong, from a top overseas uni, so you just made yourself look very stupid with your comment about him in an ivory tower and not 'globalised'.
I see that both sides of the arguments have come to an agreement, or a meeting point, that in a globalised economy some sections of the population will be left behind, namely those who cant keep up to change or retrain or adjust themselves, for example those low-level jobs such as bricklayers, or similar ones like cashiers, sales assistant, and so on.
So.....let's stop at this point, and move the discussion forward.
What can be done to improve, or perhaps, to help smoothen the impact on this segment of population? -
Personally, my view,
It is true retraining is important, and perhaps it has helped to some extent for those people who are facing difficulty to keep up, to change their skills and catch up in a globalised economy, and maintain their previous lifestyle standard.
But, I think the problem is the retraining or repositioning is not so perfect, or, how should I say, can't really match all the needs of the economy or help impact all the people to maintain their previous lifestyle standard. For instance, there will always be people who only have the skills to lay bricks, and no matter what they cannot be like Hindu goddess with 10 hands, to compete with Malaysian bricklayers. Lol. We can imagine perhaps some of them are old, or did not have proper education, so whatever the retraining is, they will always end up in the same similar line.
I think this is true if you go above the level abit, to the middle class educated workforce, or even to the very highest educated ones. Like Oxford says radiologists may be out of jobs, and they will need to adjust also, perhaps study a different specialization, and in the meantime they will also suffer because they will take classes again and not earning any money/ incur adjustment costs.
So actually globalization affects every one of us. But I imagine the more educated/ skilled ones have more adaptability than those who can only move sideways in similar lines like bricklaying, cashiers, sales assistants etc. For instance the radiologist can study to become a boob surgeon, then he can maintain his life standard. But the bricklayers etc, cannot smoothen, or absorb, the drop in life standard, the living costs keep rising. In this sense, there will be a wider gap, poor people getting poorer, and rich getting richer.
I think SG gov is aware of this and try to help by giving retraining programs, giving handouts, setting up job-centers etc, but I believe there will always be imperfection, lag, mismatch, and always some section of people left behind and getting poorer.
So while all those programs are good.......I propose a radical and fundamental restructuring to lower the costs of living.....
(to be cont) -
R u sure radioligists may be out of job? According to my son who is the MO attached with NUH,they are in demand even those who retired oreli are asked to come back hopistals to do part time work .Originally posted by #$%^&*:Personally, my view,
It is true retraining is important, and perhaps it has helped to some extent for those people who are facing difficulty to keep up, to change their skills and catch up in a globalised economy, and maintain their previous lifestyle standard.
But, I think the problem is the retraining or repositioning is not so perfect, or, how should I say, can't really match all the needs of the economy or help impact all the people to maintain their previous lifestyle standard. For instance, there will always be people who only have the skills to lay bricks, and no matter what they cannot be like Hindu goddess with 10 hands, to compete with Malaysian bricklayers. Lol. We can imagine perhaps some of them are old, or did not have proper education, so whatever the retraining is, they will always end up in the same similar line.
I think this is true if you go above the level abit, to the middle class educated workforce, or even to the very highest educated ones. Like Oxford says radiologists may be out of jobs, and they will need to adjust also, perhaps study a different specialization, and in the meantime they will also suffer because they will take classes again and not earning any money/ incur adjustment costs.
So actually globalization affects every one of us. But I imagine the more educated/ skilled ones have more adaptability than those who can only move sideways in similar lines like bricklaying, cashiers, sales assistants etc. For instance the radiologist can study to become a boob surgeon, then he can maintain his life standard. But the bricklayers etc, cannot smoothen, or absorb, the drop in life standard, the living costs keep rising. In this sense, there will be a wider gap, poor people getting poorer, and rich getting richer.
I think SG gov is aware of this and try to help by giving retraining programs, giving handouts, setting up job-centers etc, but I believe there will always be imperfection, lag, mismatch, and always some section of people left behind and getting poorer.
So while all those programs are good.......I propose a radical and fundamental restructuring to lower the costs of living.....
(to be cont)
As a professional QS ,I dont agree with U that bricklayers who have the necessary skill would be out of job as well, there are many projects in Asia countries. Presently,there are a huge shortage of skilled workers in the construction industries both in Malaysia and s'pore.
In summary, I think the section of ppls are those who hve no specialist skills would be in trouble like general workers,salesman,taxidrivers , cashiers and factory workers whose can easily be replaced by "FTs"
The cost of living in S'pore is 2 high and those who are employed or not employed are having a hard time to make ends meet.
Daily expenes is high in NY but their salary is at least 3 times more than Spore professionals. Our GP makes less than 10k a month wheres the GP here earns at least S$30,000 /month,this is why we hve a plan to migrate to USA after my son had served his bond. -
We no longer need so many diagnostic radiologists as the trend to outsource radiology to India will continue. We have started with plain X-rays but there are plans to outsource CT scans as well in future. As Khaw Boon Wan himself said, radiologists should focus on complex radiological investigations such as radiology-guided biopsies and therapy, which cannot be outsourced to cheaper economies.Originally posted by foomwee88:R u sure radioligists may be out of job? According to my son who is the MO attached with NUH,they are in demand even those who retired oreli are asked to come back hopistals to do part time work .
As a professional QS ,I dont agree with U that bricklayers who have the necessary skill would be out of job as well, there are many projects in Asia countries. Presently,there are a huge shortage of skilled workers in the construction industries both in Malaysia and s'pore.
In summary, I think the section of ppls are those who hve no specialist skills would be in trouble like general workers,salesman,taxidrivers , cashiers and factory workers whose can easily be replaced by "FTs"
The cost of living in S'pore is 2 high and those who are employed or not employed are having a hard time to make ends meet.
Daily expenes is high in NY but their salary is at least 3 times more than Spore professionals. Our GP makes less than 10k a month wheres the GP here earns at least S$30,000 /month,this is why we hve a plan to migrate to USA after my son had served his bond.
Many projects in Asia? Sure, they are paying 10 ringgits a day in Malaysia ...better to go to US for USD36 a day
True, it is indeed the group without specialist skills or whose skills are no longer in demand that are in greater trouble. Taxi companies are keen to employ foreigners to drive taxis...if they managed to push the plan through, more Singaporeans will be out of a job.
GPs in Singapore make less than 10k a month...of course, what do you expect? Even specialists up to the Consultant level earns less than 10k a month in the public sector, unless you are a surgeon or gynaecologist. But if you exepct your son to earn more than 10k as a GP, then his patients will have to pay more for their consultation. Isn't he then aggravating the high costs of living in Singapore?
Salaries are higher in US, it's true...but remember that the professional insurance is also very much higher. One lawsuit and you can lose multi-million US dollars, so much so there are lawyers who specialize at taking doctors to court. If I want to work in the US, I will be a lawyer and live off the doctors. Don't you know there is a common saying in the US, " Be a doctor and support a lawyer".
Sure, emigrate to the US if you like...although it is far more competitive now than it was when I got my USMLE more than 20 years ago. Many of the specialist training jobs in top US medical schools are now taken by... yes, Mainland Chinese -
Given the taxi fare 20 years ago compared to fares now, if a taxi driver today earns as much as your father in law did 20 years ago, this taxi driver must have a penchant for pythons.Originally posted by foomwee88:FYI, my father in law who had passed away paid S$40 per day 20 years ago for the rental of taxi and now taxi driver has to pay S$90 per day and their income per day is the same as 20 years ago that why they are so frustrated nowaday. -
My father in law earned S$1500 per month 20 years ago and support the family of five children who all graduated from poly n uni including my wife.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Given the taxi fare 20 years ago compared to fares now, if a taxi driver today earns as much as your father in law did 20 years ago, this taxi driver must have a penchant for pythons.
Do u know an average full time taxi driver earned per month now including working on sundays ans public holidays? pls do yr own survey and dont just read the information from the newspaper? It is the same net off fuel and renta chargesl etc
We recruited a QS who is a fresh graduate from NUS and his salary is S$1,700 which is the same as what i earned in 1982when I had graduated from NUS, but the transportation,accomodation and miscell expenses now are 3 times higher as compare now and then.
When the fresh QS sets up a family 5 years later, he willl have a hard time to support his family if he has 2 children and his wife is not working. -
R u then agree with me that radiologists and bricklayers will not be out of jobsOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:We no longer need so many diagnostic radiologists as the trend to outsource radiology to India will continue. We have started with plain X-rays but there are plans to outsource CT scans as well in future. As Khaw Boon Wan himself said, radiologists should focus on complex radiological investigations such as radiology-guided biopsies and therapy, which cannot be outsourced to cheaper economies.
Many projects in Asia? Sure, they are paying 10 ringgits a day in Malaysia ...better to go to US for USD36 a day
True, it is indeed the group without specialist skills or whose skills are no longer in demand that are in greater trouble. Taxi companies are keen to employ foreigners to drive taxis...if they managed to push the plan through, more Singaporeans will be out of a job.
GPs in Singapore make less than 10k a month...of course, what do you expect? Even specialists up to the Consultant level earns less than 10k a month in the public sector, unless you are a surgeon or gynaecologist. But if you exepct your son to earn more than 10k as a GP, then his patients will have to pay more for their consultation. Isn't he then aggravating the high costs of living in Singapore?
Salaries are higher in US, it's true...but remember that the professional insurance is also very much higher. One lawsuit and you can lose multi-million US dollars, so much so there are lawyers who specialize at taking doctors to court. If I want to work in the US, I will be a lawyer and live off the doctors. Don't you know there is a common saying in the US, " Be a doctor and support a lawyer".
Sure, emigrate to the US if you like...although it is far more competitive now than it was when I got my USMLE more than 20 years ago. Many of the specialist training jobs in top US medical schools are now taken by... yes, Mainland Chinese
Since there is a demand of them who cant be easily replaced???
As a Professional Q.S , I strongly disagree with u that a bricklayer was paid RM10 per day in Malaysia now,this may be 30 yrs ago,I dont know?
The court award may be high in USA but it is all covered by the insurance policy coverage except the deductible.
I heard from my frd Dr Wong and my wife in Spore that there is an article about GP clinic and a NUS medical fee review written by the president of SMA on ST newspaper last week, may be u bother 2 read to know about the cost of living and competition in Spore???
Talking about average S'poreans who earn about S$20k -30k p.a if their son /daughter is now studing M in NUS,do u know the tuition fee per year ???more than 35% of the average salaries earned p.a by Sporean.
Is the 177% tuition fee hike caused by us or the gov???
This is party explain why the local firms struggle to get local talents,they pay peanut hence cant get lion but monkey. but on the other hand,they are in trouble as well,rental and misc expenses are so high and competition is so keen, they hve to make their ends meet to pay for their overhead etc, May I know who cause these rental,transportation and misc expenses to go up and up??? Worst still, Dr Wong told be that they have to increase consultation fee from S$20 to S$25 due to revised HDB?JTC rental and misc price hike.
I am telling u we will not hesitate to leave this beloved country if we cant take it anymore!!! .More than 3% of our professionals had left and migrated from Spore for/to other countries. SG gov are attracting flies to our country who will not create economic and they will bring along a lot of social problems. -
With taxi fares 20 years ago, your father in law must have worked harder than the average cabbies for that income. As forumner and taxi driver Poolman said, taxi drivers now can easily earn 2.5k in Singapore without much effort, more if you work harder. If you are prepared to work harder, you increase your income..that's only to be expected.Originally posted by foomwee88:My father in law earned S$1500 per month 20 years ago and support the family of five children who all graduated from poly n uni including my wife.
Do u know an average full time taxi driver earned per month now including working on sundays ans public holidays? pls do yr own survey and dont just read the information from the newspaper? It is the same net off fuel and renta chargesl etc
We recruited a QS who is a fresh graduate from NUS and his salary is S$1,700 which is the same as what i earned in 1982when I had graduated from NUS, but the transportation,accomodation and miscell expenses now are 3 times higher as compare now and then.
When the fresh QS sets up a family 5 years later, he willl have a hard time to support his family if he has 2 children and his wife is not working.
Fresh graduates for $1,700...there are far fewer graduates in 1982 than there are now. Employers have greater choice. If a poly graduate can do the same job for 1.3k, why should I employ a graduate for 1.7k? I remember a fresh NUS graduate applying for a lab job with me asking for $2.5k. Sure he had double honours from NUS but he had no working experience. The next candidate I had was a PhD from China who had worked a year with IMCB, he was only asking for 2.3k...who do you think I should employ?
Get real... -
If you upgrade your skills or shift into another field where there is no cheaper competition, you will retain your job. If local bricklayers are willing to accept a lower pay and possess higher productivity than their foreign counterparts, they may hold on to their $65-a-day job. If diagnostic radiologists move into procedure-based radiology, they may retain both their jobs and income. Otherwise, they will have to go to the West if they want to keep their salaries, provided there is a demand for their skills in these places.Originally posted by foomwee88:R u then agree with me that radiologists and bricklayers will not be out of jobs
Since there is a demand of them who cant be easily replaced???
To be employed is to be at risk, to be employable is to be secure.As a Professional Q.S , I strongly disagree with u that a bricklayer was paid RM10 per day in Malaysia now,this may be 30 yrs ago,I dont know?
If you are a QS as you claimn you are, surely you must have heard of the International Cost Engineering Council (ICEC)? The figures are derived from them and the Malaysian figures come from the Institute of Surveyors in Malaysia, 2003...Please read my posts before you comment:
http://www.icoste.org/laborsteel.htmThe court award may be high in USA but it is all covered by the insurance policy coverage except the deductible.
Haha..and do you know how much a gynaecologist or GP pay in professional insurance premiums each year? And do you know about the limits to insurance payouts in negligence cases, depending on the sort of insurance you have?
Btw, lots of foreigners from China in particular are competing for the same jobs in the US. You have to be better than they are, accept a lower pay or you won't stand a chance. Managed care organizations are looking for cheap doctors and the top universities have a plethora of talent to choose from the foreign doctors that have arrived all over the world. The rule is still true that unless you possess superior skills, you will have trouble finding a high-paying job.Talking about average S'poreans who earn about S$20k -30k p.a if their son /daughter is now studing M in NUS,do u know the tuition fee per year ???more than 35% of the average salaries earned p.a by Sporean.
The fees in NUS are far too high, I agree with that. But still there are hundreds of students who apply to come in each year....just as people complain about the high costs of car ownership but still buy BMWs. There are also scholarships (albeit only for a few top students) available that will pay most if not all the fees...
Is the 177% tuition fee hike caused by us or the gov???
In addition, you do not have to study medicine and you are free to read it in overseas universities, an increasing number of which are recognized.
Presumably you are trying to say that doctors have to charge much more to recoup the costs of their medical education? I have no issue with that...but if the doctor from India can perform just as well as one from NUS and accepts a lower pay, why should hospitals employ local doctors?May I know who cause these rental,transportation and misc expenses to go up and up??? Worst still, Dr Wong told be that they have to increase consultation fee from S$20 to S$25 due to revised HDB?JTC rental and misc price hike.
Your GP friend Dr Wong makes a business decision to increase his consultation charges whilst other GPs may decide to close shop and work in polyclinics for the government. Some GPs are successful, others are not. As I said, why should GPs earn 10k when some Consultants in government hospitals do not earn as much? As you yourself said, competition is keen among GPs, which means there are GPs who are prepared to charge a lower consultation fee and yet survive the competition. That is good to keep healthcare costs low...It's the survival of the fittest out there..I am telling u we will not hesitate to leave this beloved country if we cant take it anymore!!! .More than 3% of our professionals had left and migrated from Spore for/to other countries. SG gov are attracting flies to our country who will not create economic and they will bring along a lot of social problems
If they want you and you think you will have a better life there, go! Who's stopping you? Our ancestors from China and India came to Singapore because they felt they could have a better life here. If you feel you are better off in the US, go! Let younger Chinese and Indians take your place and improve their lives and those of their children.[/quote] -
So much talk about making 20K-30K per month. Globalisation can only mean one thing. The wages of developed countries will have to go downwards in order to remain competitive. Can't expect wages of Indians and Chinese to rise to our level. That will cause their countries to lose the competitive edge. The signs are already showing. Gov't try to make it gradual so that we won't feel the pain.
India and China are already fighting to keep costs down in order to compete for business. Africa will soon join the ranks as cheap foreign talents. What ever talents Singapore has, there are more in China and India, and cheaper too.
Say good bye to high wages. Those who are still earning thousands of dollars per month better live within your means. It's not going to be forever. -
If they are asking about the salaries, I wouldn't be surprised. Some had been jobless for long, and they need a job that has a high enough salary to help them pay the loans.Originally posted by Elodan:the report is quite spot-on. try advertising for sales asst and cashiers - many calls. but few locals and most are PRs (from m'sia or china). even when scheduled for interviews, many singaporeans do not bother to turn up.
a few weeks ago, i was helping a family fren who advertised for staff in the food industry. when the call is from a singaporean, it typically goes like this : how long is lunch break ? any tea break ? do you provide meals ? can have weekend off ? how about public holidays ? can increase weekend rates ? sigh . . . i feel like I am being interviewed instead. and mind you, they have not even enquired about job scope !
no choice. we ended up employing 2 PRs - and i was told that they were excellent workers.
note : by spot-on - i'm referring to the low take-up rate by singaporeans for these jobs. many see it as beneath them.
Although this report is pretty true, you've got to realize that the service industry itself is also very picky. When they advertised in newspapers to call them for more info, the first thing I get is: "Miss, you sound too young and therefore you aren't suitable for the job."
Even if I don't get this reply, the first thing they say when you are there is: "You aren't qualified." And if I'm not qualified, would I even bother applying?
Both sides play a part in contributing to this situation. -
Sadly, one side has no vested interest in the betterment of the situation.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:If they are asking about the salaries, I wouldn't be surprised. Some had been jobless for long, and they need a job that has a high enough salary to help them pay the loans.
Although this report is pretty true, you've got to realize that the service industry itself is also very picky. When they advertised in newspapers to call them for more info, the first thing I get is: "Miss, you sound too young and therefore you aren't suitable for the job."
Even if I don't get this reply, the first thing they say when you are there is: "You aren't qualified." And if I'm not qualified, would I even bother applying?
Both sides play a part in contributing to this situation. -
we need jobs that pay PEANUTS!
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Straits Times, Wednesday, August 9 edition, Home Page H4 had the headline:
Too many cabs, not enough drivers
which spelled out the problems faced by the taxi operators when it was discovered that the number of cabs had shrunk to 22,226 from 22,383 at the end of 2005.
This earth shaking shrinkage of 0.0070142 per cent has led to a call for 'Foreign Talents' to be recruited into the taxi service, using the example of the large number of foreigners employed to drive taxis in the large cities of the Western Countries on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean.
Has LTA and the Taxi Companies studied the causes for the 'shrinkage' and take remedial actions before calling for FT being recruited ?
The private taxi companies seems to be taking the lead by lowering their daily rental rates and increasing the benefits of their bonus schemes.
Companies avoid cutting rental outright because it is difficult to raise it again without drawing protests.
However, Smart Automobile, with the smallest fleet of 656 cabs, has broken the taboo. Its Toyota Crown now goes for $75 a day and its Skoda Superb for $88 -- about 15 per cent less than what other charge.
The situation of too many cabs and not enough drivers has led on cab company to bleed. SMRT's taxi business sustained two consecutive quarters of losses amounting to $5.3 million -- a rarity in the trade.
To overcome the driver shortage, cab companies propose that rules restricting cabbies to Singaporeans and people 30 years and above be reviewed.
"I think we don't have a choice," said Mr Harjantho. "In many cities, you see foreigners driving cabs."
Will this be the final nail to end the sovereignty of Singapore Labor, which largely has been chained to the NTUC - acting as the proxy to the interest of the POWER OF ONE more than to Singaporean Workers.